Playing Time

[FIJI'83]

Problem right now there is no set rotation and therefore too many mouths to feed. How deep is Pike's rotation going to be when the team hits Vegas in 5 days? There are 200 minutes (40 x5) of playing time per game to divvy up. I don't believe you can rotate 10 players with each getting significant playing time and maintain cohesion. Assume going forward Bailey & Harper each get 32 minutes and Martini 30 minutes per game on average. Assume also Sommerville gets 25 minutes and Ogbole 10 minutes per game. That leaves 55 minutes per game to divide between Derkack, Hayes, Davis, Williams and Acuff. I would give Derkack 20 minutes, Hayes 18 minutes, Acuff 15 minutes, J Williams 10 minutes and JMike 8 minutes.

 

[lion1983]

Martini is not going to get 30 minutes per game ... 20-24 is more likely.

Williams is not getting just (or only) 10 minutes per game.

Currently, it does look like Derkack has carved out a leading role at this time. Acuff and Davis less so ... Hayes? Game by game, depending on how hot he is, and whether he has a good or bad day defensively (he was decent in several games earlier, but not good vs Merrimack).

Have to figure Williams gets some of Martini's projected decrease from 30 to 24 (let's say). And he and Davis get some of Acuff's projected 15 mpg ... a healthy Williams will not play less than 18 mpg. There are some games Hayes will get 20 minutes, other where he will get 10-14 minutes. If Davis plays well defensively in a game, his minutes in THAT game go up ... if he plays poorly defensively, his minutes get yanked - for that game.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You apparently prefer offense over defense

martini probably is closer to 20 than 30
somerville is probably closer to 15 than 25

That opens up 20 minutes so now you are at 75 for your 5 players

harper 32
bailey 32
jwill 24
decack 24
martini 20
somerville 16
jamike 16
hayes 12
ogbole 12
acuff 12

10 players here....going to guess the rotation through injury or demotion goes to 9 so 12 minutes get added

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If you want to do some pairing....
Bailey + Hayes not much over 40 until/unless PJ improves defense
Somerville + Ogbole = 30-35 minutes unless Pike gives Ace a share of the center position
Dercack + jwill + jamike= how much above 40 does Pike want to go. Any minute over 40 means 2 perimter challenged players on court

 

[lion1983]

You apparently prefer offense over defense

martini probably is closer to 20 than 30
somerville is probably closer to 15 than 25

That opens up 20 minutes so now you are at 75 for your 5 players

harper 32
bailey 32
jwill 24
decack 24
martini 20
somerville 16
jamike 16
hayes 12
ogbole 12
acuff 12

10 players here....going to guess the rotation through injury or demotion goes to 9 so 12 minutes get added

Tho different than mine, your current speculation on minutes distribution makes a lot of sense also. Hayes may end up with more minutes, on average, just because he CAN SHOOT.

Pikiell will have to figure out Acuff's role - his role is the most uncertain at this stage. I suspect Acuff gets more than 12 mg - or a lot less. If Hayes can be even adequate on defense in any one game, I would think he gets minutes at the expense of Acuff - Hayes seems like a better rebounder and we think he is a better shooter, and a dead-eye FT shooter. Unless Acuff can hit those catch and shoot 3-'s he has taken, his minutes will drop, because Williams, Derkack and Davis are all materially better defenders and rebounders - and passers - and because Hayes and Martini are better shooters ... and if Acuff is not hitting the open 3, the ball tends ot stick in his hands too much.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Based on what we see on November 21
Acuff 0

Hopefully it is shortsighted to do that at this point.

 

[RU at the shore]

I think Martini's shooting earns him big minutes

 

[seansherm]

Tho different than mine, your current speculation on minutes distribution makes a lot of sense also. Hayes may end up with more minutes, on average, just because he CAN SHOOT.

Pikiell will have to figure out Acuff's role - his role is the most uncertain at this stage. I suspect Acuff gets more than 12 mg - or a lot less. If Hayes can be even adequate on defense in any one game, I would think he gets minutes at the expense of Acuff - Hayes seems like a better rebounder and we think he is a better shooter, and a dead-eye FT shooter. Unless Acuff can hit those catch and shoot 3-'s he has taken, his minutes will drop, because Williams, Derkack and Davis are all materially better defenders and rebounders - and passers - and because Hayes and Martini are better shooters ... and if Acuff is not hitting the open 3, the ball tends ot stick in his hands too much.

Hayes is going to have to shoot more to have a big role. Right now, only Derkack and Davis take less shots per minute of playing time. He needs to shoot more than the non shooters.

 

[PhillyRU]

You apparently prefer offense over defense

martini probably is closer to 20 than 30
somerville is probably closer to 15 than 25

That opens up 20 minutes so now you are at 75 for your 5 players

harper 32
bailey 32
jwill 24
decack 24
martini 20
somerville 16
jamike 16
hayes 12
ogbole 12
acuff 12

10 players here....going to guess the rotation through injury or demotion goes to 9 so 12 minutes get added

If JMike plays more than Hayes I’m going to kms

 

[RuSnp]

Quick math shows Hayes and Martini at 50% combined from 3 on 30 combined attempts. At some point we will see them get some real time with Ace and Dylan plus.... somebody. Maybe Acuff. I'm not sure who we would defend but it would be fun to see (for a while at least).

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If JMike plays more than Hayes I’m going to kms

not familar with what KMS means....i have a feeling you are going to kms

does k = kill?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Quick math shows Hayes and Martini at 50% combined from 3 on 30 combined attempts. At some point we will see them get some real time with Ace and Dylan plus.... somebody. Maybe Acuff. I'm not sure who we would defend but it would be fun to see (for a while at least).

not as quick math shows we are 35th in offensive efficiency and 181st in defensive efficiency right now with limited sample size. Don't be shocked if PT goes to improve the 181 and not the 35

 

[RuSnp]

not as quick math shows we are 35th in offensive efficiency and 181st in defensive efficiency right now with limited sample size. Don't be shocked if PT goes to improve the 181 and not the 35

Don't disagree and given Pike really don't disagree. But 50% is 50%.

 

[PaKnight]

Tho different than mine, your current speculation on minutes distribution makes a lot of sense also. Hayes may end up with more minutes, on average, just because he CAN SHOOT.

Pikiell will have to figure out Acuff's role - his role is the most uncertain at this stage. I suspect Acuff gets more than 12 mg - or a lot less. If Hayes can be even adequate on defense in any one game, I would think he gets minutes at the expense of Acuff - Hayes seems like a better rebounder and we think he is a better shooter, and a dead-eye FT shooter. Unless Acuff can hit those catch and shoot 3-'s he has taken, his minutes will drop, because Williams, Derkack and Davis are all materially better defenders and rebounders - and passers - and because Hayes and Martini are better shooters ... and if Acuff is not hitting the open 3, the ball tends ot stick in his hands too much.

Seeing Acuff so far this year, just seems while his foot maybe healthy he is not moving well as he showed last season, especially since it has been against comparable competition so far. Will this happen in December? January? Or never?

 

[knights1212]

Hayes & Martini are our best 3 point shooters. I feel the offense needs to get both of these guys more open 3 point attempts. Hayes often only gets 2 or 3 shots a game. Both don't have enough plays run for them. They both are working hard when they are on the floor. One game Hayes even led us in rebounds with 7. Last night he only got 14 minutes and his three was made way behind the 3 point line. These are my personal feelings.

 

[BillyC80]

Depending on matchups, I think Acuff plays at least 15 minutes as the season progresses, taking from JWill, JMike, and Dercack.

With Dylan and Ace playing 32 minutes each, I hope we can have at least one of them on the court at all times, and both in for the final 4 minutes of each half.

I think Hayes and Martini should play 20 minutes each, and should take 5 threes each if possible.

Obviously matchups, foul trouble and injuries will have something to say.

 

[Unionst]

You apparently prefer offense over defense

martini probably is closer to 20 than 30
somerville is probably closer to 15 than 25

That opens up 20 minutes so now you are at 75 for your 5 players

harper 32
bailey 32
jwill 24
decack 24
martini 20
somerville 16
jamike 16
hayes 12
ogbole 12
acuff 12

10 players here....going to guess the rotation through injury or demotion goes to 9 so 12 minutes get added

Ugh, 12 minutes for Hayes. I can give up some defense for a guy who can score 3 points half the time he shoots.

 

[Pdabs]

i think derckak played extend minutes last game because that’s his old school. I think Hayes gets more minutes going forward.

 

[RUBlackout]

Martini and Hayes need more minutes. They are guys who clearly are going to open up the game for Harper and Bailey based on their outside shooting and not having a defender play off them to double.

Those minutes need to be taken away from JWill and JMike. While both hustle out on the court they are liabilities in many ways. I see the below as where it should land. I think that Hayes, JMike, and JWill should be situational and that I would lean more towards Hayes at this point for outside shooting. so those minutes should be changed based on that. Acuff still needs time to show out.

35.00	Harper
35.00	Bailey
25.00	Jordan
20.00	Martini
20.00	Lathan
15.00	Jwill
15.00	Jmike
15.00	Hayes
10.00	Manny O
10.00	Acuff
200.00

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Pike is our coach. Our D has been, statistically, the worst in all his years. Hayes is a poor defender. Ace has limitations on D too. Ace will play, i dont think Hayes will play a lot in most game. If Fran McCaffrey was our coach Hayes would play 25+ minutes

 

[RUDivision]

not as quick math shows we are 35th in offensive efficiency and 181st in defensive efficiency right now with limited sample size. Don't be shocked if PT goes to improve the 181 and not the 35

Would be a short sighted and futile move. We dont have the players to vastly improve the defense efficiency drastically . How ever playing the shooters and offensive players more to open up the floor for Dylan and Ace could improve our offensive efficiency.
Yes I know Pikes philosophy but he built this team and he has to adjust to the talent he has.

 

[RUDivision]

You apparently prefer offense over defense

martini probably is closer to 20 than 30
somerville is probably closer to 15 than 25

That opens up 20 minutes so now you are at 75 for your 5 players

harper 32
bailey 32
jwill 24
decack 24
martini 20
somerville 16
jamike 16
hayes 12
ogbole 12
acuff 12

10 players here....going to guess the rotation through injury or demotion goes to 9 so 12 minutes get added

Need to get the rotation down to 8/9 players. Jmike is out! Jwill needs to be cut down to 10-12 w second unit. If Brian Boitano doesn’t improve his outside shooting he should get comfortable next to Jmike.
Ball dominant guard who can’t shoot, stay on his feet, lazy on D, can not play alongside Ace and Dylan.

 

[FIJI'83]

I too believe JMike must lose minutes and may find himself with DNP next to his name in box scores in many games. I believe his skill set compared to the other players plus his diminutive size will eventually compel this absent injuries to the others.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Need to get the rotation down to 8/9 players. Jmike is out! Jwill needs to be cut down to 10-12 w second unit. If Brian Boitano doesn’t improve his outside shooting he should get comfortable next to Jmike.
Ball dominant guard who can’t shoot, stay on his feet, lazy on D, can not play alongside Ace and Dylan.

Fran McCaffrey is not your coach. We have been playing cupcakes and D has been a problem. Expect him to lean on JWill and JMike more as we play real teams. We are 4-0, but everytime we have had a losing streak in Pike era his solution has always been to play the guys that defend.......and it has worked.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We have 2 NBA players who can create their own shot. Ace can be triple teamed and chuck up a bad shot and it goes in everytime. Now fans want to take the other 3 slots on the court and fill them with O players instead of D players?

There is 1 basketball PLUS you can't win if you are in the 150s on D. You can realistically score only so many points per possession.

 

[RUDivision]

Fran McCaffrey is not your coach. We have been playing cupcakes and D has been a problem. Expect him to lean on JWill and JMike more as we play real teams. We are 4-0, but everytime we have had a losing streak in Pike era his solution has always been to play the guys that defend.......and it has worked.

It will fail miserably if you rely on Jwill and Jmike. Great guys hard workers but their games don’t fit with the current freshman phenomenons. They are not Caleb and Mag defensively and do not provide enough lift to warrant more minutes.

This team is built around 2 offensive studs and you need to maximize their ability to score.

 

[RuSnp]

Need to get the rotation down to 8/9 players. Jmike is out! Jwill needs to be cut down to 10-12 w second unit. If Brian Boitano doesn’t improve his outside shooting he should get comfortable next to Jmike.
Ball dominant guard who can’t shoot, stay on his feet, lazy on D, can not play alongside Ace and Dylan.

There should be a board rule that insulting a guy on our own team should be a time out/ banning. Grow up.

 

[RUDivision]

We have 2 NBA players who can create their own shot. Ace can be triple teamed and chuck up a bad shot and it goes in everytime. Now fans want to take the other 3 slots on the court and fill them with O players instead of D players?

There is 1 basketball PLUS you can't win if you are in the 150s on D. You can realistically score only so many points per possession.

Agreed only 1 basketball and we have to provide those players shooting options to keep the floor balanced and open.

What does Jwill give you on the floor? He won’t have the ball in his hands and he can not shoot. He is not a plus defender. Misses rotations, cheats for steals getting out of position, and even basket hangs. Good player bad fit!

Now if you want to play him in the few minutes Ace and Dylan are off the floor then that may work.

JMike provides nothing over the payers in the rotation. He has gotten torched by two guards in back to back games from small teams. It will get worse when he has to battle bigger players. Maybe we find time for him next year. Stop with his FT shooting being up it doesn’t matter when that equates to less than 2 pts a game.

 

[RUDivision]

There should be a board rule that insulting a guy on our own team should be a banning. Grow up.

It’s an analogy to how much he slides , skates and falls all over the court. Next time I will not use an analogy and simply state the facts.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It will fail miserably if you rely on Jwill and Jmike. Great guys hard workers but their games don’t fit with the current freshman phenomenons. They are not Caleb and Mag defensively and do not provide enough lift to warrant more minutes.

This team is built around 2 offensive studs and you need to maximize their ability to score.

That's like saying I am a little over the DUI limit so F it I might as well really get hammered and drive.

 

[RUDivision]

That's like saying I am a little over the DUI limit so F it I might as well really get hammered and drive.

No I am saying we can get hammered as much as we want and take an Uber home. You wanting to play Jmike and Jwill is like saying your hammered and can’t drive but you will let your friend who you like and know drive home, like that’s a good idea.

Give me the Uber with the new sober shooting driver.

 

[NickRU714]

We have 2 NBA players who can create their own shot. Ace can be triple teamed and chuck up a bad shot and it goes in everytime. Now fans want to take the other 3 slots on the court and fill them with O players instead of D players?

There is 1 basketball PLUS you can't win if you are in the 150s on D. You can realistically score only so many points per possession.

Haven’t you raised concerns about relying on 2 freshman as the season and Big Ten games wear on them?

Are you now expecting Ace and Dylan to score 60 every game?
Someone has to score and ease the pressure on them.

Tell me how you are designing a defense against this lineup:
Ace, Dylan, JWill, JMike and Ogbole

Now do it for:
Ace, Dylan, Martini, Hayes and Ogbole

As the opposing coach, what do you want on the floor?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Agreed only 1 basketball and we have to provide those players shooting options to keep the floor balanced and open.

What does Jwill give you on the floor? He won’t have the ball in his hands and he can not shoot. He is not a plus defender. Misses rotations, cheats for steals getting out of position, and even basket hangs. Good player bad fit!

Now if you want to play him in the few minutes Ace and Dylan are off the floor then that may work.

JMike provides nothing over the payers in the rotation. He has gotten torched by two guards in back to back games from small teams. It will get worse when he has to battle bigger players. Maybe we find time for him next year. Stop with his FT shooting being up it doesn’t matter when that equates to less than 2 pts a game.

In a perfect world it would be nice to have shooters in 4 of the 5 positions on the floor. It would improve offensive efficiency no doubt!

JWill at worst is an average defender and he is a very capable ball handler. 100% with a roster of Dercack and JMike there is overlap in skillsets. I am very happy JWill is here, but frankly I am surprised he stayed on a team that didn't need a starting PG. I believe he is a very good PG with obvious limitations from the perimeter.

JMike was terrible defensively in the 1st half. Pike knows it and it is the reason he didn't see the court until well in to the 2nd half. I think it should be a known quantity he is our best defender for guards under 6'4'' AND he did a very good job defensively in the 2nd half. We are probably in very much agreement on what he is (or isn't) as a defensive player.

At the end of the day it comes down to math......let's say it is either having PJ on the floor or JaMike. Does the increase in offensive efficiency make up for the decrease in defensive efficiency with PJ on the court? I believe you get a tick up on offense with PJ, but quite a few tick downs on D. When we get to the real games there aren't going to be a lot of players PJ can guard. We don't have Cliff or Myles to erase mistakes.

 

[rubaseball78]

You apparently prefer offense over defense

martini probably is closer to 20 than 30
somerville is probably closer to 15 than 25

That opens up 20 minutes so now you are at 75 for your 5 players

harper 32
bailey 32
jwill 24
decack 24
martini 20
somerville 16
jamike 16
hayes 12
ogbole 12
acuff 12

10 players here....going to guess the rotation through injury or demotion goes to 9 so 12 minutes get added

Somerville will get more than 16 minutes per game.

 

[RUDivision]

In a perfect world it would be nice to have shooters in 4 of the 5 positions on the floor. It would improve offensive efficiency no doubt!

JWill at worst is an average defender and he is a very capable ball handler. 100% with a roster of Dercack and JMike there is overlap in skillsets. I am very happy JWill is here, but frankly I am surprised he stayed on a team that didn't need a starting PG. I believe he is a very good PG with obvious limitations from the perimeter.

JMike was terrible defensively in the 1st half. Pike knows it and it is the reason he didn't see the court until well in to the 2nd half. I think it should be a known quantity he is our best defender for guards under 6'4'' AND he did a very good job defensively in the 2nd half. We are probably in very much agreement on what he is (or isn't) as a defensive player.

At the end of the day it comes down to math......let's say it is either having PJ on the floor or JaMike. Does the increase in offensive efficiency make up for the decrease in defensive efficiency with PJ on the court? I believe you get a tick up on offense with PJ, but quite a few tick downs on D. When we get to the real games there aren't going to be a lot of players PJ can guard. We don't have Cliff or Myles to erase mistakes.

Absolutely fair! Also factor in the impact on the defender guarding Hayes and Jmike.

One you can leave alone and double Ace and Dylan every time down the floor impacting their offense efficiency. The other you have to stay with or they will make the open 3.

The uptick on offense has to be looked at more broadly.

Either way w this team Pike should explore a 2/3 on D. Allow the studs to rest and stay out of foul trouble while covering up some of our defensive problems.

Need more games to really evaluate

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Haven’t you raised concerns about relying on 2 freshman as the season and Big Ten games wear on them?

Are you now expecting Ace and Dylan to score 60 every game?
Someone has to score and ease the pressure on them.

Tell me how you are designing a defense against this lineup:
Ace, Dylan, JWill, JMike and Ogbole

Now do it for:
Ace, Dylan, Martini, Hayes and Ogbole

As the opposing coach, what do you want on the floor?

I want them playing 30-33 MPG and so does Pike. Most of their energy bar is going to (should be) depleted on the other end of the floor. I will admit I have been so far mildly disappointed with non Ace and Dylan new guys while Ace and Dylan have so far exceeded my expectations. Asking for more than 36 from them is a lot, especially if I am limiting minutes.

If I am the opposing coach I know with Hayes on the floor I can exploit Hayes on the offensive end.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Somerville will get more than 16 minutes per game.

not a chance if he defends like he has the past 4 games. There has to be improvement or it will be EO, Martini or Ace at the 5.

 

[RUDivision]

not a chance if he defends like he has the past 4 games. There has to be improvement or it will be EO, Martini or Ace at the 5.

Your problem is none of the others 3 you mentioned are plus defenders. Down low will be a mess night to night situation. I do agree defensively you lean Martini and Ace.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Absolutely fair! Also factor in the impact on the defender guarding Hayes and Jmike.

One you can leave alone and double Ace and Dylan every time down the floor impacting their offense efficiency. The other you have to stay with or they will make the open 3.

The uptick on offense has to be looked at more broadly.

Either way w this team Pike should explore a 2/3 on D. Allow the studs to rest and stay out of foul trouble while covering up some of our defensive problems.

Need more games to really evaluate

Three takes that I have that are not consensus and Pike at this point doesn't agree
1. Ogbole is our best option most nights against real teams at the 5. Only Merrimack game was this evident
2. JWill should have the ball in his hands more as almost the primary PG with Dylan spending a lot of time off the ball
3. Ace as a 18 year old right now is best as a center on this team

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Your problem is none of the others 3 you mentioned are plus defenders. Down low will be a mess night to night situation. I do agree defensively you lean Martini and Ace.

I'd rather my kid come home with a C then fail the class.