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rudad02

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Nov 7, 2010
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Not a steady wrestling guy, but question for all you wrestling guys who are. Are we moving forward & upward or has the program plateaued? I know we had a couple of national champs a few years ago, but we don't seem to have moved significantly forward from there.
Is Goodell the guy to move us upward in the Big & nationally. He's been a long time on the job. A lot of wrestling talent in Jersey I'm led to believe.
 
If you look at it year to year, it’s hard to say we’ve done anything but regress this season. That said, if you look at it big picture, over the last 3-5 years we’re significantly improved from the previous 3-5 years.

Moving forward, I think we have some real nice young pieces. Peterson, Shawver, Olivieri, Poz, Soldano, is a great young core to build around.
 
One of the top wrestling states-top 5 attendance-new APC training facility-SKWC-everyone loves Goody. What is holding us back from being top 10 every year? By coaches poll, we are 11th, just in the B1G.
 
Not a steady wrestling guy, but question for all you wrestling guys who are. Are we moving forward & upward or has the program plateaued? I know we had a couple of national champs a few years ago, but we don't seem to have moved significantly forward from there.
Is Goodell the guy to move us upward in the Big & nationally. He's been a long time on the job. A lot of wrestling talent in Jersey I'm led to believe.
It's a great question, and to my knowledge, there has never been a thread dedicated to the discussion. It's also hard to hold a discussion when some are very defensive of the status quo and will resort to name-calling. There is a definite pattern that repeats itself each year, and I have been posting each year to remind those that don't want to hear it. Basically, it starts with optimism, followed by disappointment, then next year will be better. What I'm certain of is that nothing will change if nothing changes.

I've tried to have a discussion about how the program operates and have been met with resistance (putting it mildly). The people here either don't know, don't want to know, or are afraid to know. I'd be very happy to engage in a civil discussion, and I would hope that those involved with the program might learn from it. Based on recent years, it's doubtful. More people are now questioning, which is good, but there is the loyal faithful that cast stones and call names similar to what we see in politics today: you're a racist, Nazi, fascist, or even worse: you're a Penn State fan. Then giggle about it.

NJ is indeed one of the top three wrestling states in the nation. Rutgers gets an occasional top recruit, like Soldano, Peterson (indirectly) and Poz. Some come and fall on their face. Unfortunately, many don't progress after their first two years. The majority of the top guys go elsewhere. The reasons vary but are mostly for their best chances for success or sometimes education when Ivies are an option. Rutgers cannot offer the coaching or resident athletes that other programs do. I think, based only on what I read, that many of the kids who train at the SKRTC, say that Rutgers is in their top five, then go elsewhere. To fully understand why, honest questions must be asked and answered honestly. It would not be terribly difficult for a qualified person to do a competitive assessment. I've never heard of that having been done or even considered.

I do believe Rutgers could be a great wrestling program. It must first figure out how, then take action to make it happen.
 
Yo me the answer lies in recruiting d so I the CB more top flight kids we get like Suriano and Ashnault’s the better the results will be.
 
How much do you think Covid affected the likes of Sammy and JoJo? They seemed okay leading up to that. I know it's affected all sorts of people, especially young adults and kids.
 
It's a great question, and to my knowledge, there has never been a thread dedicated to the discussion. It's also hard to hold a discussion when some are very defensive of the status quo and will resort to name-calling. There is a definite pattern that repeats itself each year, and I have been posting each year to remind those that don't want to hear it. Basically, it starts with optimism, followed by disappointment, then next year will be better. What I'm certain of is that nothing will change if nothing changes.

I've tried to have a discussion about how the program operates and have been met with resistance (putting it mildly). The people here either don't know, don't want to know, or are afraid to know. I'd be very happy to engage in a civil discussion, and I would hope that those involved with the program might learn from it. Based on recent years, it's doubtful. More people are now questioning, which is good, but there is the loyal faithful that cast stones and call names similar to what we see in politics today: you're a racist, Nazi, fascist, or even worse: you're a Penn State fan. Then giggle about it.


NJ is indeed one of the top three wrestling states in the nation. Rutgers gets an occasional top recruit, like Soldano, Peterson (indirectly) and Poz. Some come and fall on their face. Unfortunately, many don't progress after their first two years. The majority of the top guys go elsewhere. The reasons vary but are mostly for their best chances for success or sometimes education when Ivies are an option. Rutgers cannot offer the coaching or resident athletes that other programs do. I think, based only on what I read, that many of the kids who train at the SKRTC, say that Rutgers is in their top five, then go elsewhere. To fully understand why, honest questions must be asked and answered honestly. It would not be terribly difficult for a qualified person to do a competitive assessment. I've never heard of that having been done or even considered.

I do believe Rutgers could be a great wrestling program. It must first figure out how, then take action to make it happen.
You are correct. It's hard to have an objective conversation about the program's direction. I valued different opinions and views that are shared in a respectful manner. That's a dialogue that is hard to have here.

The program has come a long way and has many positives that can should result in a consistent top 10 program. NJ is one of the top 3 or 4 states for high school wrestling, we are top 5 in attendance, have a state of the art APC training facility, one of the most financially sound clubs (SKWC) with money in a endowment (not close to Penn State - but much better than most) and strong support from the university.

The only time we were in the top 10 (9th) was when Ashnault and Suriano won their titles. Since 2019 we have plateaued at best and most likely regressed.

There is a road map to beating Northwestern on Sunday and being respectable at the NCAAs with a top 15 finished. We have enough guys with talent Peterson, Heilmann, Olivieri, Turley, Soldano, and Boone - plus there is still hope for White and Janzer) to perform in the upper half of the Big Ten.
 
Thanks for the feed back guys. Looks like a topic that warrants more discussion.
 
Yo me the answer lies in recruiting d so I the CB more top flight kids we get like Suriano and Ashnault’s the better the results will be.
That's very true, Bill, and at the core of this discussion. How it gets accomplished is the big question, but it isn't happening or isn't happening with enough consistency, although I don't want to overlook Soldano and Poz. Peterson and Suriano were transfers after their initial picks soured. To do better at recruiting, there needs to be a good reason for them to come. I like the idea of having a Jersey wrestling theme, but there has to be more. We can convince ourselves that there is plenty of reason for them, but they need to believe it.
 
...one of the most financially sound clubs (SKWC) with money in a endowment (not close to Penn State - but much better than most) and strong support from the university.
That's interesting. Can you say more about what that strong support looks like? And the SKWC doesn't seem much of a draw right now. I might appreciate the RTC more if I knew how much time the resident athletes spent there and how much they contribute to the team.
 
Yo me the answer lies in recruiting d so I the CB more top flight kids we get like Suriano and Ashnault’s the better the results will be.
Been saying this for YEARS.. need to get the 5 star prospects that will basically succeed at any program, like suriano, and that will actually score points at nationals.. having the top coaches, facilities, training partners won’t mean much if u don’t have the actual recruits that are capable physically and mentally.. not saying this will be easy but our focus should be to attract the top flight kids.. which I think staff been listening as we barely missed out on Ferrarri(w/o off mat antics), C Schultz, Mullen.

Also, the way this sport is run unfortunately, it’s mainly about March, having one national champion is more valuable then 10 national qualifiers that go 1-2 and are backed up wit more NQ depth.. if we want to realistic be a top 10 team(which unfortunately until/if there’s rule change) we gotta ask ourselves where are the pts coming from n adapt to this..

Got a good future core w/ Peterson, Olivieri, Poz, and Soldano.. but need a couple more pieces to reach top 10 goal. Sport would be better if there were a national team dual championship.. and we r historically known to be a better dual team then a tournament one
 
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You are correct. It's hard to have an objective conversation about the program's direction. I valued different opinions and views that are shared in a respectful manner. That's a dialogue that is hard to have here.

The program has come a long way and has many positives that can should result in a consistent top 10 program. NJ is one of the top 3 or 4 states for high school wrestling, we are top 5 in attendance, have a state of the art APC training facility, one of the most financially sound clubs (SKWC) with money in a endowment (not close to Penn State - but much better than most) and strong support from the university.

The only time we were in the top 10 (9th) was when Ashnault and Suriano won their titles. Since 2019 we have plateaued at best and most likely regressed.

There is a road map to beating Northwestern on Sunday and being respectable at the NCAAs with a top 15 finished. We have enough guys with talent Peterson, Heilmann, Olivieri, Turley, Soldano, and Boone - plus there is still hope for White and Janzer) to perform in the upper half of the Big Ten.
Looking forward to some individual matchups vs Northwestern… but we are not beating them, not this year…
 
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Looking forward to some individual matchups vs Northwestern… but we are not beating them, not this year…
Nope, not this year. It could even be ugly if the guys we expect to win, don't. However, there are several matches that might be more of a toss-up than the rankings would suggest. I've underestimated Janzer; if he shows up strong, he could pull it off. Turley is a mystery, but if Action Jackson shows up, that too could go in our favor. Some inspired wrestling might provide a toss-up opportunity at 133. With all that going in our favor, we still lose.
 
We CAN win 125, 133, 141, 174, 184, and 197 but best case they’re all toss ups. Only way to win the dual is to sweep all 6. Hopefully Boone is back for damage control at heavy. White probably giving up bonus at 149, and there’s bonus potential at 165 as well.

If Boone isn’t back we could even win 6 bouts and still lose the dual.
 
We CAN win 125, 133, 141, 174, 184, and 197 but best case they’re all toss ups. Only way to win the dual is to sweep all 6. Hopefully Boone is back for damage control at heavy. White probably giving up bonus at 149, and there’s bonus potential at 165 as well.

If Boone isn’t back we could even win 6 bouts and still lose the dual.
Boone is out for another week or two.
 
We need him back for Maryland or else that dual might be too close for comfort.
We should beat MD, but we clearly regressed from being middle of pack b10 team to being clearly on the bottom rungs of the b10. Highlight of season was beating penn/Mich state.. we should try to schedule more of these middle of pack teams rather cupcake schedule/super tough teams.

Kinda clear where we are dual wise but if we don’t get any AA either this year will be kinda sad.
 
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It's a great question, and to my knowledge, there has never been a thread dedicated to the discussion. It's also hard to hold a discussion when some are very defensive of the status quo and will resort to name-calling. There is a definite pattern that repeats itself each year, and I have been posting each year to remind those that don't want to hear it. Basically, it starts with optimism, followed by disappointment, then next year will be better. What I'm certain of is that nothing will change if nothing changes.

I've tried to have a discussion about how the program operates and have been met with resistance (putting it mildly). The people here either don't know, don't want to know, or are afraid to know. I'd be very happy to engage in a civil discussion, and I would hope that those involved with the program might learn from it. Based on recent years, it's doubtful. More people are now questioning, which is good, but there is the loyal faithful that cast stones and call names similar to what we see in politics today: you're a racist, Nazi, fascist, or even worse: you're a Penn State fan. Then giggle about it.

NJ is indeed one of the top three wrestling states in the nation. Rutgers gets an occasional top recruit, like Soldano, Peterson (indirectly) and Poz. Some come and fall on their face. Unfortunately, many don't progress after their first two years. The majority of the top guys go elsewhere. The reasons vary but are mostly for their best chances for success or sometimes education when Ivies are an option. Rutgers cannot offer the coaching or resident athletes that other programs do. I think, based only on what I read, that many of the kids who train at the SKRTC, say that Rutgers is in their top five, then go elsewhere. To fully understand why, honest questions must be asked and answered honestly. It would not be terribly difficult for a qualified person to do a competitive assessment. I've never heard of that having been done or even considered.

I do believe Rutgers could be a great wrestling program. It must first figure out how, then take action to make it happen.
Excellent post IMHO.
 
Excellent post IMHO.
I agree great post and like he asked I too an a casual wrestling fan at best and will go to one match a year but no one has really answered the question some great posts but have we plateaued and Goodale the answer to take us to the next level a consistent top 10 national program?
 
I'd like to see this thread continue, but with constructive discussion and minus the talk about duels. This isn't intended just to be critical, but identifying weaknesses is necessary to know where improvement is needed.

I made my first posts after many years of just watching and reading in this forum. My first posts came three years ago after my frustration of seeing the same problems repeat each year. I had hoped then that we could have a discussion. It was the first time I had asked (unsuccessfully) about process.

I have been pointing to issues but am very willing to talk solutions. I thought it would be appropriate to first learn about the current process but was met with resistance. I don't think there is a coherent process.

Three years ago...
... I have observed over the past several years that the seasons go much the same in that the people here get very frustrated, then with any amount of improvement or success, the attitudes turn around. Last year, this forum's participants had much the same frustrations, then Nick and Anthony won and suddenly it's an excellent program. I believe there is plenty of talent, but I haven't seen the development of that talent on a consistent basis.

To be clear, I'm a fan and look forward to each match, wanting to see the kids do well and the program succeed. I think the problem is systemic. That may not be what any of us want to believe, but the evidence is there.

This is the second year where the coach has criticized what the kids do at practices. Who's responsible for the practices if not the coach? If I had the opportunity, I'd ask the coach to explain his process.

One year ago...
Rutgers wrestling and this forum repeat the same stages every year. There's the manic stage where the enthusiasm is high and the expectations great. "This is our best line up ever". The rankings look good. There is some early success mixed with unexpected disappointment. The season gets rolling and there's great disappointment, rankings drop. The forum goes into a WTF discussion and questions what's going on and some coaching criticism. That is followed by reconciliation and support for the coaching. Then the manic stage starts again with the battle cry of "just wait until next year". Repeat from beginning.
 
I'd like to see this thread continue, but with constructive discussion and minus the talk about duels. This isn't intended just to be critical, but identifying weaknesses is necessary to know where improvement is needed.

I made my first posts after many years of just watching and reading in this forum. My first posts came three years ago after my frustration of seeing the same problems repeat each year. I had hoped then that we could have a discussion. It was the first time I had asked (unsuccessfully) about process.

I have been pointing to issues but am very willing to talk solutions. I thought it would be appropriate to first learn about the current process but was met with resistance. I don't think there is a coherent process.

Three years ago...


One year ago...
Like @Leonard23 has lambasted on here for what must be close to a decade now, Recruiting, Recruiting, Recruiting. We're getting kids who would be good to great in the EIWA, but the B1G, as you know is another animal where they're decent to not so good.
 
Like @Leonard23 has lambasted on here for what must be close to a decade now, Recruiting, Recruiting, Recruiting. We're getting kids who would be good to great in the EIWA, but the B1G, as you know is another animal where they're decent to not so good.
Okay, that's a fairly big part of the overall process. How's it going? What is being done differently to make it better? Leonard just says we need better talent and makes excuses for why we don't. Has he ever suggested anything to make it more successful? I suspect he's been saying the same thing for a decade and will for another decade while watching nothing change. I'm more interested in what can be done to make the program more attractive to those recruits, which involves another aspect of the overall process. Leonard can only tell us why we can't. He's proven that.
 
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Okay, that's a fairly big part of the overall process. How's it going? What is being done differently to make it better? Leonard just says we need better talent and makes excuses for why we don't. Has he ever suggested anything to make it more successful? I suspect he's been saying the same thing for a decade and will for another decade while watching nothing change. I'm more interested in what can be done to make the program more attractive to those recruits, which involves another aspect of the overall process. Leonard can only tell us why we can't. He's proven that.
Money.
 
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What exactly is Leonard supposed to do, go recruiting on behalf of the program?
Absolutely. I picture something like this:

giphy.gif
 
Okay, that's a fairly big part of the overall process. How's it going? What is being done differently to make it better? Leonard just says we need better talent and makes excuses for why we don't. Has he ever suggested anything to make it more successful? I suspect he's been saying the same thing for a decade and will for another decade while watching nothing change. I'm more interested in what can be done to make the program more attractive to those recruits, which involves another aspect of the overall process. Leonard can only tell us why we can't. He's proven that.
IMO. There’s only 2 things that can happen at this point that can change direction from being middle to lower rung team.

The first is not sustainable but possible…one Jersey super teams (Delbarton, BC, Old South Plainfield) has a few studs. They all get together and come to Rutgers together. At the end of the day, you need talent and this could happen (did happen a few years ago with Ash and Scott and the others from SP)

The 2nd unfortunately because I like Goody and 100% believe he has given all he could to this program is a coach that top wrestlers will come to. The top of the line wrestlers with Olympic Golds like (Cael, Brands, Burroughs, Taylor). If you grab one of these 4..kids will lineup. This is the surest way to sustained success. A guy like Pat Pop, Dresser, Ryan are the kings of organizing talent and would be my 2nd choice behind the gold medalist type.

If RU was serious about it JB is the obvious choice being a Jersey kid
 
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IMO. There’s only 2 things that can happen at this point that can change direction from being middle to lower rung team.

The first is not sustainable but possible…one Jersey super teams (Delbarton, BC, Old South Plainfield) has a few studs. They all get together and come to Rutgers together. At the end of the day, you need talent and this could happen (did happen a few years ago with Ash and Scott and the others from SP)

The 2nd unfortunately because I like Goody and 100% believe he has given all he could to this program is a coach that top wrestlers will come to. The top of the line wrestlers with Olympic Golds like (Cael, Brands, Burroughs, Taylor). If you grab one of these 4..kids will lineup. This is the surest way to sustained success. A guy like Pat Pop, Dresser, Ryan are the kings of organizing talent and would be my 2nd choice behind the gold medalist type.

If RU was serious about it JB is the obvious choice being a Jersey kid
Thanks for contributing a thoughtful post. Do you see how difficult it is here to hold meaningful discussions with the adult children in this group?

Someone like Burroughs would have to retire from competition. However, I don't know if he knows how to coach and organize. Subject matter talent does not guarantee that someone will be able to manage a program. Besides, I don't see Goodale being replaced. I'd just like him to be smarter about how he approaches it all. That may never happen, but I had hoped that a discussion in this thread would shed some light on possibilities.
 
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IMO. There’s only 2 things that can happen at this point that can change direction from being middle to lower rung team.

The first is not sustainable but possible…one Jersey super teams (Delbarton, BC, Old South Plainfield) has a few studs. They all get together and come to Rutgers together. At the end of the day, you need talent and this could happen (did happen a few years ago with Ash and Scott and the others from SP)
Goodale is recruiting kids from Delbarton, Blair and BC and St John Vianney.
They are recruiting Connor Harer,PA and Dillion Campbell, Ohio.
The 2nd unfortunately because I like Goody and 100% believe he has given all he could to this program is a coach that top wrestlers will come to. The top of the line wrestlers with Olympic Golds like (Cael, Brands, Burroughs, Taylor). If you grab one of these 4..kids will lineup. This is the surest way to sustained success. A guy like Pat Pop, Dresser, Ryan are the kings of organizing talent and would be my 2nd choice behind the gold medalist type.

If RU was serious about it JB is the obvious choice being a Jersey kid
Burroughs will not coach at Rutgers.
 
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