Purple lot cops on ATVs
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
@Knight Shift & @e5fdny - I got a thorough brief on the command structure and operational tasking. It's too detailed for this forum, but at a high level C&C is very much what we'd expect it to be. The operational tasking is, however, a little loose.
Not my job.
I think that the simple solution is to get the school to understand that the use of ATVs in the parking lots is overly aggressive policing. They aren't needed. Everyone I've talked to both in the athletic department and in law enforcement agrees that they serve no purpose. Stage them on Scarlet Knights Way and make the enforcement divisions patrol the rows on foot.
My advice, going forward (recognizing that there's only one game left, but it's gonna be a clusterf*ck) is that if you're faced with this situation in the rows, you should very politely say:
1. You've spoken to University officials and have been told that the use of ATVs in the rows was to be discontinued.
2. If necessary, ask to see the division chief. The cops on site are divided into 15 man divisions, with a "division chief" as their CO. When he shows up, re-state #1 and tell him - again, very politely - that you will do everything you can to accommodate them at this time but that you will absolutely be contacting the Athletic Director's office to report the encounter.
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Yes , I am the guy RU4Real is talking about. I was across from him and had a "nice" conversation with the police officer. We videod the whole thing and Geoff Brown has already replied to my email with the video attached. He was pissed when he came by my tailgate and once again said they should not be doing it.
The funny part is they say it is for emergency vehicles to get through. But, the second they go through after they make everyone move the stuff all the stuff goes right back to where it was. So what was gained?
RU4Real, did you mention it to Pat and Sara? Wish they were there when it was happening.
I was responding to you, but my comment was not directed at you.
Did the person who briefed you explain why the ATVs, which were missing since last season when complaints apparently put a stop to their use in rows, appeared back in the rows in this past game? Perhaps an explicit prohibition on that, which was included in the LEOs instructions last season, was left out this year due to an oversight? Or did the school actually modify the patrol parameters for the last game intentionally?
Pat was on a roll with my brother-in-law, so I spoke to Sarah about it. She and Maggie were very clear that they're not supposed to be doing this. What we have here, apparently, is a failure to communicate. Either that or the cops are rogue and need to be brought to heel.
I didn't want to get that detailed with him, since he's very inside the operation. I felt compelled to compartmentalize.
I question the need to "patrol" the rows on foot. We are not big tailgaters. In fact, most games, we park, we may have a quick bite to eat (Yellow lot) and head in. As I walk through yellow, I see mostly people in their 30's to 60's calmly tailgating. Why does this activity need to be 'patroled?' I have no objection to them going up the main access road, but going down the rows and carding people who are with their families is absolute bullshit. And I don't drink.
Before the UM game the cops raided the party next to us. It looked like a "young alum" group, but they were being extremely well behaved by virtue of the fact that we didn't even notice them until the cop count went to six. Sure enough, two of the girls were underage. It took six cops about 40 minutes worth of interrogation and intimidation to eventually write two summonses. I took out my phone and one of the cops actually said to me "if you take our pictures, I will arrest you." When one of my crew (who is a lawyer) said "Arrest him for what??" he just shut up and turned away.
I am generally pro-police. I have a lot of friends/colleagues who are police officers and spouses of police officers. The majority of complaints about incidents you witnessed seemed to be about MCSO's, who probably don't have a lot of experience in patrolling anything. I understand that there are laws, but I will never understand the point of shaking down a well-behaved group like the one you described to write two summonses. An out-of-control group--sure, zero in on them if they bring attention to themselves.
For all the good Hobbs has done in fundraising and hiring, the one area that has taken a step back is the game day experience--and that includes the police state in the tailgate lots, the messed up team intro, the video segments, and yesterday's tribute (ahem) to the 2006 team. Would not surprise me if they lose several thousand season ticket holders next year.
Mine was RUPD, so we have the leadership in both departments giving orders this week to drive through.
Never understood this where several officers stand by a dumpster and tell everyone to dump their beer... while thousands are drinking beer beyond the dumpster. I'm a police officer and think security at these games is way overdone. I was at the 2006 WVU game where the partying was pretty strong and I didn't see a single officer until I got to the stadium. The same with PSU last year and I saw no incidents at either game.
Crazy. I had a hunch it was your crew when @RU4Real said second row. Don't know how I missed it. Rich K was at our tailgate for a bit. Wish I saw it happening when he was by. BTW, ping me before the PSU game and let me know if you plan on setting up before the match. We are probably setting up the tent but not the generator and TV until after the match.
The police state is rediculous out there! I have specifically avoided the blue lot for this purpose.
We are in the purple and had to twice move our stuff for the police to simply drive through on ATVs. It makes no sense at all.
Why does RU hire so many police for the tailgate scene ? Is it really necessary to have that many ??? Or is it typical RU being overly risk adverse (and the media still would destroy them if anything were to ever publicly go wrong)
We are in the purple and had to twice move our stuff for the police to simply drive through on ATVs. It makes no sense at all.
Why does RU hire so many police for the tailgate scene ? Is it really necessary to have that many ??? Or is it typical RU being overly risk adverse (and the media still would destroy them if anything were to ever publicly go wrong)
My understanding is it's a little of both.
They don't feel they have enough of their own to do the job they way they feel it needs to be done. And the risk adverse thing (media/legal backlash) is in the back of their minds too.
Just like we are still kinda new the "big time" thing on the field we're also new to the stuff that happens around it too. (insert eye roll emoji guy here)
Blah , blah , blah. At my tailgate we always have two Chiefs of Police and one Captain. They were giving the cops more crap then anyone else.
I sense sarcasm . Because yeah the yellow lot and blue lot are very dangerous places . Actually we all put our lives on the line there .
With all the in-the-loop people here I have a simple question.
If as it seems most issues stem from interaction with the MCSD why are they there? Politics? Lack of other available forces?
If as it seems most issues stem from interaction with the MCSD why are they there? Politics? Lack of other available forces?
I don't know about the first part but I have been told Rutgers doesn't think they have enough guys of their own to do what they feel is needed on game day. The other thing there is no court on Saturday so they (MCSD) have a lot of manpower to spare.
That's really the crux of it. MCSD has more available manpower on a Saturday than any other agency.
So lets all assume then they ain't going anywhere.
But it does not mean Rutgers can't say where their post will be on game day....traffic, in-Stadium security and the beer dumpster detail are really the only spots we should be seeing them.
To be honest, I don't know that I'd want them doing any of those things. They have no training in traffic control and they'd just be finding reasons to arrest people on the other two details. I can see it now - you walk two steps past the beer dumpster with your Natty Lite, you get tazed. lol
But yeah, your main point is well taken - the silliness of the parking lot storm troopers has got to stop.
And not just them, but anybody out in the Lots.
As for the traffic thing maybe just use them as crossing guards then?
MCSO job function does not require the majority of force to interact with the public for daily calls of service,traffic stops,911 calls..so when let lose on the public on a Saturday..they lack interaction skills with the general public.The only public they deal with are defendants in court,prisioners in jail,people entering a county building or county owned property.Piscataway,RUPD,Edison and rest of Brunswicks PDs should be the officers in the lots.Sherriffs officers can work interior and exterior of stadium,and NOT the lots.
The new to Big Time and risk averse I agree with. I think Rutgers should send their Police and stadium/infrastructure/game day experience team on a road trip to some BIG/SEC stadiums to see how they do it. There needs to be a happy medium where fans/students can tailgate/enjoy themselves pre game, in game and post game and the safety team can patrol for severe issues.
Or maybe ask an alum who works for unit in an agency that does this for real (NYC Marathon, US Open, Super Bowl, NYE Times Square, UN General Assembly Meeting, etc.). They would just need an EZPass to do this.
If West Point thinks it's a good idea to send their Cadets to observe and learn from this group I don't think it would be a bad idea for some from RU to check it out too.
Thank god they backed off giving the surplus military equipment to the local police. Could you imagine one of these guys in a Bradley? They'd run OVER your tailgate including your car LOL.
IF they REALLY need the horizontal access all they need to do is leave a space between the cars every few rows instead of having them all the way bumper to bumper.
again like the other thread...step back and think dammit. (then again this would also require a parking attendant IQ of average or better yet some training to be fair). OR since these fields are not used for anything else during the season (right?) put up some temp rope/fencing as guides. (and yeah..I know this doesn't work in the paved lots)
IF they REALLY need the horizontal access all they need to do is leave a space between the cars every few rows instead of having them all the way bumper to bumper.
again like the other thread...step back and think dammit. (then again this would also require a parking attendant IQ of average or better yet some training to be fair). OR since these fields are not used for anything else during the season (right?) put up some temp rope/fencing as guides. (and yeah..I know this doesn't work in the paved lots)
Not so hot on traffic duty either. Exiting the Yellow lot, there seemed to us to be an extra lane that was not there in previous weeks, and we were going to cut over to get the lane for 287 North. There was a MCSO off the the right at the exit to the Brown lot gesturing and waving at me to slow down. We could not have been going more than 10-15 mph.
We could put NYC Banker in charge of EMS Sector or Blood Pressure Strike Team. :scream:
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