Recent Commits

Foads

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Here is the answer you are looking for, which many in this thread have already said. We trust Schiano and his eye for underrated talent and we did not with the last guy. Plain and simple. That is why you see the difference in the reactions.
 

urbanecane

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It's definitely not because I didn't ask about the class as a whole or anything to do with what you discussed. I asked why these last few recruits are good gets when other pp5 schools didn't see it.
It comes down to quantity and timing. The fact that these guys are committing in April/may means that the staff thinks highly of them. These are not guys offered on signing day to fill the class. Right now there are probably 5 recruits who fit your criteria (one has a 5.7 rating). A program like Rutgers will almost always have 5-8 “low” level recruits and many of those guys will be fine program players. The issue is that ash could barely find a regional recruit, let alone a national one. Schiano already has a mix of national and regional guys and the assumption is he can keep that momentum.
 
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WhoRU?

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Some here are reframing my argument in a way that wasn't intended I am specifically talking about recruits who have few or no Power 5 offers, yet people give them a pass because it's GS. I know the class, as a whole, is better. That wasn't my point. Why is there no outcry when we beat Akrom ,William and Mary, or Army for kids this year? That's all I'm asking.
I tried comparing the two-star commits between our current class and the 2017 class. As was noted above, the rankings tend to be wonky (and this year will probably will probably be worse than most years). Plus, it’s way too early to draw conclusions and things will change, but here are a few observations…
  • Overall, 27% (4/15) of our current class is made up of two-stars compared to 35% (9/26) in 2017.
  • Of our current two-stars, there are 8 P5 offers for 4 players (2/recruit), compared to 4 P5 offers for 9 players in 2017 (.44/recruit).
  • There are only 2 FCS offers among our current 4 two-stars (.5/recruit), compared to 15 FCS offers for 9 kids in 2017 (1.67/recruit).
  • Our 4 current two-stars, hold 1 Ivy/Service Academy offer (.25/recruit) compared to 4 offers (.44/recruit) for our 9 two-star recruits in 2017.
The OP is correct, the 2017 class had a high percentage of Ivy/Service offers, but our current class has a much higher percentage of P5 offers and a much lower percentage of FCS offers. In addition, the two-stars are a smaller percentage of the class to date. There is still a lot of time left for this year's class to change, but this is how our under recruited kids compare to Ash's first year.
 
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JayRU09

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I'd be interested in a year 1 comparison for this time of year for Schiano and Ash. I'm pretty sure that Ash didn't have a top 20 class his first year in late May.
Ash had a really good class going before his team set foot on the field. Had this site's 3, 4, 7, 8, 12, 13, 18, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, and 30 in NJ all verbally committed in the summer along with Maryland's number 7. He had a heck of a first year bump before his staff's abilities got exposed.
 
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FELONIOUSMONK

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When the dust settles OSU Michigan and the usual suspects will get there 3's 4's and 5's We will get what we get with the knowledge that this staff is a lot more talented than the previous ones. Wisconsin does not get the top notch guys out of high school but they have a formula that seems to work We had a successful formula during Schiano part 1 .If he can duplicate that then the guys he is getting will function just fine . He puts guys in the pros.Niw he needs to give us winners on Saturdays I fully get what the OP is saying He isn't demeaning Schiano. He is just being honest about his assessment . And I agree.
 

mikebal9

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I tried comparing the two-star commits between our current class and the 2017 class. As was noted above, the rankings tend to be wonky (and this year will probably will probably be worse than most years). Plus, it’s way too early to draw conclusions and things will change, but here are a few observations…
  • Overall, 27% (4/15) of our current class is made up of two-stars compared to 35% (9/26) in 2017.
  • Of our current two-stars, there are 8 P5 offers for 4 players (2/recruit), compared to 4 P5 offers for 9 players in 2017 (.44/recruit).
  • There are only 2 FCS offers among our current 4 two-stars (.5/recruit), compared to 15 FCS offers for 9 kids in 2017 (1.67/recruit).
  • Our 4 current two-stars, hold 1 Ivy/Service Academy offer (.25/recruit) compared to 4 offers (.44/recruit) for our 9 two-star recruits in 2017.
The OP is correct, the 2017 class had a high percentage of Ivy/Service offers, but our current class has a much higher percentage of P5 offers and a much lower percentage of FCS offers. In addition, the two-stars are a smaller percentage of the class to date. There is still a lot of time left for this year's class to change, but this is how our under recruited kids compare to Ash's first year.
I think your numbers are way off. The last commit alone lists several Ivy offers.
 

-RUFAN4LIFE-

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A lot of who gets offers and which commitments are accepted comes down to how the staff thinks these players will fit the schemes and the culture. A lot of these kids have multiple P5 offers and/or are extremely smart in the class room.

Think back to the last time Schiano was RU's head coach. There's a reason they were constantly in the APR Top 10 for football and winning games.

There's nothing set in stone that a lower rated recruit won't succeed because there is no science to recruiting ratings. It's a generalized rating based on perceived athletic ability (so prone to many biases). They never account for what type of system a player may fit into best. This is why there are so many misses by these sites.
 

FELONIOUSMONK

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Speaking of Wisconsin these last two commits from Tampa are their type of guys. Smart. Very smart. That doesn't mean automatic success but it can't hurt
 

RU_WL

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I know that I'll get chewed up and spit out for this, but someone has to say it, and I would never dishonor a kid in his commitment thread, so I made a separate thread.
When Ash was here, he got absolutely killed on this board for winning recruits over schools like Akron, Miami (OH), the sevice academies, and the Ivies. Now that Schiano is doing the same thing, I see almost exclusively "Great get" type comments in the threads. Now, maybe everyone in these threads has a better eye for talent than I do and they can see a difference. But looking strictly at offer lists (Only because that's what you all did with Ash), I see no difference at all between his recruits and several of Schiano's. Can someone set me straight?
 

sct1111

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I remember an old quote by Schiano where he's talking about how he there was pressure on him to recruit 4 stars when he thought particular 2 stars were actually better. He's developed many 2 stars into NFL draft picks.

While I am maybe a tiny but concerned about the recent commits, you also have to go back and realize that that 2006 team was filled with 2 stars that developed into great players and many of them played in the NFL.

I mean look at this roster.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/rutgers/2006-roster.html

15 players played in the NFL in some capacity. 15! A good portion of those are 2 star recruits.
 
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West Point Knight

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There’s a long history of even 5* recruits who were not developed by their coaches and basically did nothing in college. Schiano has a history of developing players.

he can take a 2 or 3* recruit and make him the next ray rice...burned to ashes sure didn’t!
 

RU_WL

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The answer is as simple as this. "You recruit with your eye balls" per Schiano. He did it the first time around. He had gained tons of "eye balls recruiting experience" since his 1st round at RU, and he surrounded himself with coaches who have similar philosophy. BTW, Schiano is trying to make believers out of doubters by bringing in xfers for '20 with players who he or his staff had seen in person.
 

RUBOB72

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After you watch his film you will see why Schiano likes a player like this . Good size... Good push... Good speed ...uses his hands and has lateral quickness. .. reminds me of PeteTverdov out of Union NJ before he became a star at RU...a ** star recruit with a 7.00 rating...I think this is typical Greg Schiano .by the time he is a sophomore Austin Dean under Jay Butler will be 6’2”” 6’3” 230 -235... I also agree a typical MLB as we see at Wisconsin or Iowa year after year.
 

mikebal9

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After you watch his film you will see why Schiano likes a player like this . Good size... Good push... Good speed ...uses his hands and has lateral quickness. .. reminds me of PeteTverdov out of Union NJ before he became a star at RU...a ** star recruit with a 7.00 rating...I think this is typical Greg Schiano .by the time he is a sophomore Austin Dean under Jay Butler will be 6’2”” 6’3” 230 -235... I also agree a typical MLB as we see at Wisconsin or Iowa year after year.
Thank you. This is more of what I was wondering. I don't have the ability to see these kinds of details in recruiting videos, so I was hoping someone with a better eye could explain why these kids are good gets.
 

ecojew

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I think your numbers are way off. The last commit alone lists several Ivy offers.
I don't believe he had any other FBS offers - that would mean from G5 conference schools. I don't think any were listed at all.
 

Yeah Baby

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I know that I'll get chewed up and spit out for this, but someone has to say it, and I would never dishonor a kid in his commitment thread, so I made a separate thread.
When Ash was here, he got absolutely killed on this board for winning recruits over schools like Akron, Miami (OH), the sevice academies, and the Ivies. Now that Schiano is doing the same thing, I see almost exclusively "Great get" type comments in the threads. Now, maybe everyone in these threads has a better eye for talent than I do and they can see a difference. But looking strictly at offer lists (Only because that's what you all did with Ash), I see no difference at all between his recruits and several of Schiano's. Can someone set me straight?
The first few years for Ash were very similar to Greg’s first few years 2001-2003. Greg sold his vision to the fanbase and turned us around. I don’t know if Ash ever would have but he certainly did not get the time Greg did.

Greg now is a salty veteran and we should all trust his judgements.
 

Knightmoves

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Another relevant factor imo is that Greg knows that RU needs players right now. He can’t wait for hs kids who may leave us at the Recruiting altar this season. We need guys we can count on and are ready to commit now, even if they are rated lower than others that need more time to decide.

Having said that, these are the best recruits we can get right now. Hopefully some of the hs recruits can develop into starters. But this class is mostly Hold the Fort guys to build a foundation for future FB recruiting classes imo.
 

KevH

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I trust Schiano's eye for talent. I cannot say the same for Chris Ash.
This, and it's actually an apples to oranges comparison (Ash v. Schiano) in terms of what each one brought/brings to the table from day one. To compare their experience, persona/gravitas, player development, etc. is laughable. That's just part of why GS easily gets the benefit of any doubt.
 

RUaMoose

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I trust Schiano's eye for talent. I cannot say the same for Chris Ash.
TKR 2016: “I trust Ash’s eye for talent. I cannot say the same about Kyle Flood”

Feel the same as OP but have been keeping my mouth shut. Like GS once said, 80 percent of it is talent
 

KevH

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Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm glad he has relationships. I jsut think these are personal relationships, and taking a 2 star with whom you have a personal relationship might be seen as more of a favor or being blinded by your personal love for the kid or his family. Again, I hope I'm wrong.
I think that's the kind of mistake a naive or desperate coach would make. I don't see GS as either of those things. Sure, not every 2 star is going to pan out, but the reason why you don't see the same outcry right now has been outlined plenty of times in this thread already. Because of all the factors mentioned above, people simply trust GS more than they did Ash.
 

patk89

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The majority of our early commits have strong ratings and were very good gets with most from NJ. We remain in the running for some of the top 10 guys in NJ. Ash built his classes around guys who didn't have P5 offers and his distribution of scholarships (how many WRs do you need and where are the linemen?) was questionable. By the way, I was thrilled Ash landed those 3 4 stars in 2017. But Melton was a legacy excited about the high scoring offense Ash expected, Clark required a scholie for his brother and both didn't pan out, and Fogg had solid offers but has not been a star at RU. Blackshear was a 2* who flipped from Temple. At the end of the day, no solid OLs.

Looks at BC so far in 2020. No 4* commits despite supposedly hiring a recruiting guru. Took Cheek who GS passed on. Bottom line, looking at our whole commitment list, we are doing excellent.
 
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RUBOB72

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Taking the 2** kid from the Tampa Bay Area of Florida is usually a player with better variables and higher level of training... Like I said this kid is a Tverdov type... I’ll take 6 of those anytime...Wisconsin, Iowa and Nebraska have done this for years... Trust Schiano and his staff ... the other higher rated will take time but he will get a few.
 

RUBOB72

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I don't believe he had any other FBS offers - that would mean from G5 conference schools. I don't think any were listed at all.
Some people forget this simple fact he has had many 2** players who played in the NFL...Devin and Jason McCourty, Pete Tverdov , Burton NFL
 

gtbb3115

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It doesn't matter that it was a "watered down Big East" IMO. MANY of the under recruited kids Greg brought and developed became successful NFL players. Shows that talent is talent.
I agree but with that NFL talent we didnt win many conference titles. I mentioned it because we are competing in the tougher division vs coaches that are just as competent.
 

patk89

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I agree but with that NFL talent we didnt win many conference titles. I mentioned it because we are competing in the tougher division vs coaches that are just as competent.
But we are in the B1G now with much better resources. Much better asst coaching staff (tied to comp). If you are going to be one of the guys crying because we haven't won conference titles but consistently go to bowls and play entertaining football against elite competition, and want him fired like last time around, beware of what that got us.
 
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RUBOB72

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I agree but with that NFL talent we didnt win many conference titles. I mentioned it because we are competing in the tougher division vs coaches that are just as competent.
. The vision is to win conference and National titles... the goal for the first 3 years is win , be competitive and get to mid pack... after that by year 4 is when the kids who are 12–14 will see Rutgers as it was in the good years under Schiano. Had Greg stayed in 2012 we wouldn’t be in the place we settled at under Flood and Ash . There will always be bad seasons but there will be more good ones then most of us imagine now.
 
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RUBOB72

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The majority of our early commits have strong ratings and were very good gets with most from NJ. We remain in the running for some of the top 10 guys in NJ. Ash built his classes around guys who didn't have P5 offers and his distribution of scholarships (how many WRs do you need and where are the linemen?) was questionable. By the way, I was thrilled Ash landed those 3 4 stars in 2017. But Melton was a legacy excited about the high scoring offense Ash expected, Clark required a scholie for his brother and both didn't pan out, and Fogg had solid offers but has not been a star at RU. Blackshear was a 2* who flipped from Temple. At the end of the day, no solid OLs.

Looks at BC so far in 2020. No 4* commits despite supposedly hiring a recruiting guru. Took Cheek who GS passed on. Bottom line, looking at our whole commitment list, we are doing excellent.
Actually , Tyshon Fogg has performed well in a defense which lacked enough players to compete week in and week out... let’s see how he does under Greg if we are able to get on the field this year.
 
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RUBOB72

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I don't believe he had any other FBS offers - that would mean from G5 conference schools. I don't think any were listed at all.
I can guarantee that if this pandemic didn’t hit and Florida had their annual spring football this player would have generated additional offers. Schiano had that advantage to offer this G5 kid... time will tell so don’t whine if in 6 months other D1 schools offer this player . The young man is still a junior with a year to play.
 
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drewbagel423

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It's been interesting to note that there have been 10 top target on the home page, all showing as 100% RU except for the last one, who shows as 100% Wisconsin. Our last three recruits were not among them but each appeared in the first position on that page, literally hours before committing. It just seems to be a pattern.

When earlier today, there was an article about Tahjamell Bullock, who has been further back among the 10 for weeks, he moved up to the first spot, then was bumped into the second spot with the new commit, who literally seems to have come out of no where.

I think some of our frustration has to do with what seems to be an extraordinarily long wait for the decisions by our top targets.

Perhaps there's another explanation for the composition of the 10 who have appeared on the home page for a long while?

In any event, like everyone here, I wish our new recruits the best of luck for a fulfilling academic and athletic career at Rutgers.
Link?
 

gtbb3115

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But we are in the B1G now with much better resources. Much better asst coaching staff (tied to comp). If you are going to be one of the guys crying because we haven't won conference titles but consistently go to bowls and play entertaining football against elite competition, and want him fired like last time around, beware of what that got us.
Man, you jumping the gun. I didnt say anything about results. I like our staff. I'm looking forward to seeing what Schiano can do with the new resources but lets not act like its not going to be more challenging.
 
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gtbb3115

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. The vision is to win conference and National titles... the goal for the first 3 years is win , be competitive and get to mid pack... after that by year 4 is when the kids who are 12–14 will see Rutgers as it was in the good years under Schiano. Had Greg stayed in 2012 we wouldn’t be in the place we settled at under Flood and Ash . There will always be bad seasons but there will be more good ones then most of us imagine now.
You saying this like I dont think Greg can do it lol. Just because its going to be more challenging doesnt mean I dont think it can happen.That's a great blue print. Im hoping it goes as plan.
 

vandalen1

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I know that I'll get chewed up and spit out for this, but someone has to say it, and I would never dishonor a kid in his commitment thread, so I made a separate thread.
When Ash was here, he got absolutely killed on this board for winning recruits over schools like Akron, Miami (OH), the sevice academies, and the Ivies. Now that Schiano is doing the same thing, I see almost exclusively "Great get" type comments in the threads. Now, maybe everyone in these threads has a better eye for talent than I do and they can see a difference. But looking strictly at offer lists (Only because that's what you all did with Ash), I see no difference at all between his recruits and several of Schiano's. Can someone set me straight?
Here's the difference from Ash; Schiano knows the coaches where he's getting these kids. Remember that there were no camps this year and in the past Schiano, like most coaches, wanted to see kids. This year he has to rely on coaches he knows and tape. Toth is a kid from Ohio and Schiano was there. Dean is a player where Schiano knows the coach well.
But GS is also taking some players that need to be developed, Toth and Hughes comes to mind. This kid Dean is going to play early in my opinion. He's a player and when the analysts either go back or see him in his senior year, he'll get a nice bump. Just my opinion.
 

DJ Spanky

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Some here are reframing my argument in a way that wasn't intended I am specifically talking about recruits who have few or no Power 5 offers, yet people give them a pass because it's GS. I know the class, as a whole, is better. That wasn't my point. Why is there no outcry when we beat Akrom ,William and Mary, or Army for kids this year? That's all I'm asking.
I agree with everything you're saying, and not one of the things you said answers my question, or is really even relevant to the discussion.
And again, this is not my question.
It's definitely not because I didn't ask about the class as a whole or anything to do with what you discussed. I asked why these last few recruits are good gets when other pp5 schools didn't see it.
I think the obvious answer is: "Aliens!"

But if that won't do: I think Schiano came in with a long list of kids he had scouted, whether it was through personal relationships or seeing them in person or being referred by someone else. Some of these kids would have truly benefited from spring evaluations or spring/summer camps, but due to the WuFlu that's no longer available to them. However, because of his prior knowledge Schiano was on these kids and made the offer. Let's face it, a lot of the smaller schools cast out offers like certain people serve cheap scotch, so they'll offer kids with any kind of measurables without having any real knowledge. So that's why we're seeing Akron, Syracuse, Buffalo, West Texas State, the French Whores of Boston, Marshall, Northern Illinois, etc. In the case of the smart kids, you also see your Ivy League schools and Military Academies jumping in.
 

yesrutgers01

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I agree with everything you said but also keep in mind that he did that in a water down big east. Not going to get everyone in NJ so we do have to take chances on kids like this. Low risk, high reward type players.
I don't think our best years were with a watered down BE...During most of the 05-09 years, WVU and L'Ville made up for the loss of Mia and VaTech and then Cincy had some very good teams as did Shit, hate to say it, UConn and you had Pitt. During those years, we had great showings in bowl games and many were saying that the BE actually compared close to the BIG Ten and better than ACC.
His class of 05 that was mostly 2 star kids and was very low ranked, played some of the best football we have ever seen on the Banks.
 

patk89

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Man, you jumping the gun. I didnt say anything about results. I like our staff. I'm looking forward to seeing what Schiano can do with the new resources but lets not act like its not going to be more challenging.
By now you should realize that everything related to RU football is going to be challenging. It was a huge challenge to take us from Shea to where we were by 2005 with little support. Then the guys who wanted him fired in 2004 started with the "where are the championships" rant. They will come again soon enough and you are likely to be among them judging by your post.
 

cubuffsdoug

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We should rated Rutgers fans on a scale similar to rivals. I don't think some of the complainers would like the results. They will be quick to point out their contributions to the board goes further than the negativity other love to focus on.:Laughing
 

yesrutgers01

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We should rated Rutgers fans on a scale similar to rivals. I don't think some of the complainers would like the results. They will be quick to point out their contributions to the board goes further than the negativity other love to focus on.:Laughing
And if 247 didnt offer these fans, then they are worth our time to be posting here as it is obvious they are no good.
 
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