Harper was the MVP, led the team in scoring the past two games (on a team including Naz Reid), hit 8 3s in the final https://nychoops.rivals.com/news/northeast-basketball-club-rules-is8-nike-spring-h-s-classic
Ron Harper Jr. Killing it in IS8
- Thread starter dkostus
- Start date
Gonna be a player for us
Really reminds me of Keith Hughes
Really reminds me of Keith Hughes
Ron Harper Jr. really flew under the radar until the spring... it looks like we have ourselves a nice talent in him. Congrats Ron... we're counting down the days until we see you on campus!
#ILikePike
#ILikePike
His game has made a mega jump in the last 12 months !! I’m really excited and hopeful it translates into the college level !!
Yeah, I feel like he came into his own and for once Rutgers was in the right place at the right time
Ron is very good. It just bothers me that many questioned Pikiell's signing him.
There really weren't that many questionin Harper. Some posters just thought he needed to get into better shape. Now there were plenty of people questioning Mensah and rightfully so. I really really like Pike, but I wouldn't say he is above questioning just yet.
Mensa was indeed a head scratcher..kid looked good on tape as PG but seemed to lack confidence at this level...I'd give coach a mulligan on that one...Harper ongoing development is exciting as he hasn't started with our staff yet..nice job by coach in getting in early on recruiting him
Yes it will be so cool watching this young talented team challenged by a 20 game BIG schedule and a tougher OOC schedule. I think the schedule will be good for this team in the long run but I fully expect growing pains this year... a case where our record may not be as good but a win in terms of another building block for this program.
Indeed there will be growing pains. When they fight through it, they will have a chance to get in the tournament in two years from now. It will be worth it for them.
The BIG retained its best players. Rutgers will be fighting for the 12-14 spot most likely. Still, I predict a lot of competitive games, and a loud RAC.
In proper "roster management", if the last spot was filled with a stretch 4 or someone that can knock down jumpers, you ideally would redshirt Harper Jr.
It has nothing to do with his ability or jump he has made from July 2017 to June 2018....if we are fair, he's taken a lot of steps forward but Thiam, Kiss and the last player not yet here, all have the ability to absorb minutes.
Teams rarely play 12 players consistently over 30+ games....and there's minutes for Myles Johnson, Doorson, Shaq Carter and Doucoure to factor in....if the last piece was a player who is starting caliber at the 4-5, then Harper likely plays this year.
The ideal situation is you redshirt him vs wasting a season where he plays less than 10 minutes a game. OR we cut down Thiam minutes because Harper is just more ready than we realize....if that scenario plays itself out this summer where Harper is matching Thiam in workouts, then he plays...if hes not in peak condition to play 20 strong minutes, and Thiam takes a leap forward (and you land a wing grad transfer, etc), then stashing Harper isn't the worst idea in the world.
You would have Harper, Mulcahy and Jacob Young hitting the floor in 2019-2020 and 3 impact players to push RU to the next level. This is a tough league, it's up to Harper, similar to Myles Johnson last year....Johnson could have played some minutes but he now has 3-4 years where his impact is more "game ready"......this isn't HS, its the B1G....he has to prove he's 100% at Thiam's level or better to not redshirt...
It has nothing to do with his ability or jump he has made from July 2017 to June 2018....if we are fair, he's taken a lot of steps forward but Thiam, Kiss and the last player not yet here, all have the ability to absorb minutes.
Teams rarely play 12 players consistently over 30+ games....and there's minutes for Myles Johnson, Doorson, Shaq Carter and Doucoure to factor in....if the last piece was a player who is starting caliber at the 4-5, then Harper likely plays this year.
The ideal situation is you redshirt him vs wasting a season where he plays less than 10 minutes a game. OR we cut down Thiam minutes because Harper is just more ready than we realize....if that scenario plays itself out this summer where Harper is matching Thiam in workouts, then he plays...if hes not in peak condition to play 20 strong minutes, and Thiam takes a leap forward (and you land a wing grad transfer, etc), then stashing Harper isn't the worst idea in the world.
You would have Harper, Mulcahy and Jacob Young hitting the floor in 2019-2020 and 3 impact players to push RU to the next level. This is a tough league, it's up to Harper, similar to Myles Johnson last year....Johnson could have played some minutes but he now has 3-4 years where his impact is more "game ready"......this isn't HS, its the B1G....he has to prove he's 100% at Thiam's level or better to not redshirt...
Last edited:
If Harper is the talent that some in this thread think, there's no way in hell he will be or should be redshirted, regardless of who else is on the roster. The idea that a team that has finished last or next to last forever wouldn't have the room to play someone who is good as these posters think is absurd.
Great points. It has a lot to do with so many things. Can McConnell play 15 mpg? If so, Thiam's minutes may be cut do to Baker playing off ball at times, and a third guard playing.
Good problems to have as a coach.
The expectations from recruits these days is not to red-shirt regardless of the situation. It's different than football. It's a hard sell to convince any kid of your plans for today or tomorrow. I'm glad I'm not in Pike's shoes.
4-star recruits don't redshirt on last place teams. If Harper outplays Thiam then you cut Thiam's minutes. That's just how it goes. Even if they're equal, then the minutes should go to a freshman over a junior.
I think we're spending way too much time trying to break down the minutes because there are so many players that are unknowns for us. I highly doubt that they all end up playing at the exact same level. Some will rise and some will fall. If they ALL rise (or fall) then that's a problem you deal with when it happens.
I think we're spending way too much time trying to break down the minutes because there are so many players that are unknowns for us. I highly doubt that they all end up playing at the exact same level. Some will rise and some will fall. If they ALL rise (or fall) then that's a problem you deal with when it happens.
I think they are very different players. Harper's defense is going to be WAY behind Thiam's... Harper looks like he has a quality that Thiam and a lot of our guys don't, though, which is zero hesitation pulling the trigger. Kiss, Mathis, McConnell all look that way in highlights too, so next year could be weird not seeing guys play hot potato trying to get the ball back to Corey or Geo.
Lol at Harper red shirting. What has Thiam done to make anyone think Harper (after the way him game seemingly progressed the past 12 months) won't earn decent playing time next season? Harper has a better chance of starting by February than red shirting.
No way he redshirts. Better than Hyatt IMO and probably one of our top five players by mid season. If he grows to 6'9" like some predict he's probably an NBA player.
I'm sure that it's happened very recently, and I'm sure that it also happened in the off season.
If we're having this debate well after the seasons starts, then you'll have a wow.
Thiam averaged about 30 min/game last year, and some of that was "default" minutes because there was no one else available to play wing.. Not hard to think that the other 10 would go to Harper right now, and possibly more depending on the situation or his development as they year goes on.
I'd say Harper's primary competition for minutes next year would be Kiss, rather than Thiam. If Thiam is locking down ~28 min on the wing, there's ~12 up for grabs.... which would likely be between Harper and Kiss, assuming Mathis starts at the 2.
Kiss is most at risk of getting squeezed for minutes, imo. He'll have to show that he's worth cutting into Mathis' minutes at the 2 or Harper's minutes at the 3.
I'd say Harper's primary competition for minutes next year would be Kiss, rather than Thiam. If Thiam is locking down ~28 min on the wing, there's ~12 up for grabs.... which would likely be between Harper and Kiss, assuming Mathis starts at the 2.
Kiss is most at risk of getting squeezed for minutes, imo. He'll have to show that he's worth cutting into Mathis' minutes at the 2 or Harper's minutes at the 3.
The way I look at it, there are 80 minutes available at the 2 and 3 spots, and the following players are in contention for those minutes:
- Thiam
- Kiss
- Mathis
- Harper
- Baker (but most of his minutes will be at the 1)
- McConnell (same)
So the reality is that we have four guys for 80 minutes, heck maybe even 90 minutes due to Pike's penchant for playing small-ball in spurts (for example, I could see Thiam or Harper playing the "4" while two of these other guys play at the 2 and the 3).
I still see Thiam getting 25 mpg due to his defense. That leaves 55 to 65 more minutes for the other three wing guys, and I can see all of them averaging 15-20 mpg.
I do see the point that it's rare for college teams to have 11-12 guys consistently in the rotation. With the above six guys, you then have Omoruyi as the only other surefire 25+ mpg guy, and then you have Johnson, Doucoure, Carter, and Doorson battling for the remaining the 45-55 "big" minutes.
With the competition at guard/wing and at the bigs, the cream is going to rise to the top, and moreover Pike will use players situationally. So, for example, it probably won't be a CONSISTENT 10 mpg from Doorson, but it may be 18 minutes against teams with big "bigs" and 4 minutes against smaller teams.
Regardless, you have to be just TICKLED PINK with the way Pike has turned over this roster in two short years.
- Thiam
- Kiss
- Mathis
- Harper
- Baker (but most of his minutes will be at the 1)
- McConnell (same)
So the reality is that we have four guys for 80 minutes, heck maybe even 90 minutes due to Pike's penchant for playing small-ball in spurts (for example, I could see Thiam or Harper playing the "4" while two of these other guys play at the 2 and the 3).
I still see Thiam getting 25 mpg due to his defense. That leaves 55 to 65 more minutes for the other three wing guys, and I can see all of them averaging 15-20 mpg.
I do see the point that it's rare for college teams to have 11-12 guys consistently in the rotation. With the above six guys, you then have Omoruyi as the only other surefire 25+ mpg guy, and then you have Johnson, Doucoure, Carter, and Doorson battling for the remaining the 45-55 "big" minutes.
With the competition at guard/wing and at the bigs, the cream is going to rise to the top, and moreover Pike will use players situationally. So, for example, it probably won't be a CONSISTENT 10 mpg from Doorson, but it may be 18 minutes against teams with big "bigs" and 4 minutes against smaller teams.
Regardless, you have to be just TICKLED PINK with the way Pike has turned over this roster in two short years.
I think Harper gets quality minutes but believe that if Thiam develops dribble to the basket moves and scores from the inside I think Thiam becomes the overall best player on RU roster. Thiam was the best defender and 3 pt shooter last season. He needs a Drive game and confidence to lead and I’m hitching my horse to Thiam as the breakout player in the BIG this coming season. Kid has unbelievable feet for his size and can shoot the rock. Just needs to continue his year and after year improvement. Harper JR will play. The more weapons to get RU averaging closer to 70pts/game the better.
GO RU
GO RU
This isn't an either OR scenario....i am not of the opinion that we have to try and reduce the clear skill level of an existing potential recruit (Hyatt) at the goal of Harper's ceiling....what's the downside of Harper potentially being 6'8" as a nightmare on a wing and a player like Hyatt or Massoud on one wing and Harper on the other??
When Purdue didn't miss a shot at MSG vs RU, it was Kline, Vince Edwards, Mathias on the wings and Carsen Edwards helping manage shots in transition....in two years, if you landed a Hyatt or Massoud and Harper blows up as we hope, we dance....and that is not because Harper is or isn't better than Hyatt/Massoud....it would be because if the backcourt does their part and there are threats at all spots.
I have seen complimentary games like this and I would be a little hesitant to place Harper's freshman year at a Hyatt level. I would like to think by his sophomore year he can progress to that level but the goal is to make the roster as strong as possible.
Harper can replace Omoyuri in 2 years as a hybrid 4....can he take charges, rebound, defend at a high level?? Both Hyatt/Massoud and Harper definitely need improvement physically but they are both lights out from 3....you definitely want a combo of Harper and hopefully Hyatt/Massoud...
You don't screw over guys that have been in the program an paying their dues like that.
If they are equal in skill, a smart coach will play the older player more. There is no better way to alianate coaches that have influence on recruits than to stop playing a kid that has been in the program over someone new when there is not a big difference in play. Why would a kid come to a school knowing that he will get cast aside as soon as a young player come in that is close to his skill level? A Duke and Kentucky you can get away with it. You can't at most places. The older player would usually make fewer mistakes also.
If the younger player ia an upgrade, then you play him more. Everyone would understand that.
Last edited by a moderator:
If Harper redshirts, it will be because Pikiell determines that he's not ready yet, not any of this other stuff written here. If he's ready, he'll play.
There's a saying if two players (one older & one younger) and are equal, you go with the younger player because his ceiling is probably higher and he has more time to work with the staff. If shouldn't be that way, but chances are it is.:(
There is a saying among fans, but successful coaches don't usually due that in reality for the reasons that I gave.
----
Harper hit eight 3 pointers his past game, against top notch competition..... of course we cannot expect that, but it seems to indicate the fella has an outside shot....
this is something that has been lacking on our team.... you usually expect a guard to put up the threes, it could be a real advantage to have a semi-big as a three-threat....it would make Baker, and anyone else, a more open threat for the three at times, I would guess.
you do not red shirt him.... it sounds like, offensively, he could be a big help....the defense might be a bit painful, but there will be constant teaching through the season.
