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Roster - final spot?

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Greene Rice FIG

Hall of Famer
Dec 30, 2005
37,191
20,518
113
1. freeman
2. sa
3. williams
4. doorson
5. sanders
6. thiam
7. eugene
8. kiss
9. bullock
10. baker
11. johnson

12. mensah (still not official)
13. ????

Do I have this right with 11 signed and sealed?

If I am right here I'd think a grad transfer would be best as we need a now player. The debate is whether that spot would be best as a guard/wing OR a big. The answer is probably the best player you can get irregardless of position, but if all is equal I'd say go with a guard/wing.
 
Kinda said the same thing in a different thread. Grad transfer makes most sense, we need someone that can contribute immediately.

If Souf is on board, then it's either another big or a shooter on the wing, IMHO.
 
Greene Rice FIG said:
1. freeman
2. sa
3. williams
4. doorson
5. sanders
6. thiam
7. eugene
8. kiss
9. bullock
10. baker
11. johnson

12. mensah (still not official)
13. ????

Do I have this right with 11 signed and sealed?

If I am right here I'd think a grad transfer would be best as we need a now player. The debate is whether that spot would be best as a guard/wing OR a big. The answer is probably the best player you can get irregardless of position, but if all is equal I'd say go with a guard/wing.
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Agree, we desperately need offense and preferably a shooter from that spot. That said, the C/PF makes me very nervous losing two wide bodies in Gettys and Diallo. Sa was totally unproductive last year and Doorson does not have an offensive game and is coming off yet another foot surgery. Not sure you can count on a true freshman in Johnson to fill the void. Sa needs to raise his game big time.
 
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a 2/3 who corey can kick to for an open 3 or mid range would be nice.
 
Lebron James has confirmed interest per Twitter. I think the staff jumps on it.

In seriousness, a game ready transfer with average-above average shooting would be nice. Sure, rebounding could use help, but shooters are still the issue. Geo Baker will help this upcoming year to a certain capacity. I also expect Myles Johnson to be helpful midway through the season.Either an average to above average shooter, or a rebounder. If someone was out there that could not score 1 pt, but could grab 10 rebounds a game, sign him up.

People have said that before here. The team needs shooters.
 
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MV9000 said:
a 2/3 who corey can kick to for an open 3 or mid range would be nice.
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Would be very nice, but with Doorson's injury problems, Sa more of a 4, and a true freshman, a serviceable big wouldn't be a bad idea either.
 
MadRU said:
Would be very nice, but with Doorson's injury problems, Sa more of a 4, and a true freshman, a serviceable big wouldn't be a bad idea either.
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Agreed. Im not hugely worried on the bigs. As long as we can get a body to board and put up 2-3 baskets a nice im happy.

A 3 threat to spread the floor would make me even happier as Coreys shooting is limited and kicking the ball was limited to Williams and maybe 1 other.
 
We have no idea what 2,4,6,7,9,10,11,12 from my list are going to bring to the table. If we had a better answer....
 
In an ideal world, we would find another 2/3 who can stretch defenses for a year

Reality says we need another big guy....Doorson is still an injury question mark and both him and freeman have missed lots of time from injuries past.

Plus...I don't see us signing a 2/3 getting more than 12-15 mpg. Sanders and Willaims are getting 30 mpg a game.

The right big guy plays 20-25 next year and helps us a lot\
 
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Hopefully our staff finds one of those european sharpshooters who hit a growth spurt so everyone missed him...

Would be yuuuge.
 
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It's best player available to the staff - regardless of position.

PG - Souf is an unknown, and a veteran floor general to allow us to move Corey off ball would be a benefit for stretches.
SG - Our shooting woes are well documented. Geo doesnt have a B1G frame yet, and our bulldog Mike Williams will need a breather. Especially on nights when he's cold from deep.
SF - I'm hoping to see a big jump from Issa this year - provided he's adding to his frame this offseason. If the staff is targeting here, they'll just lock up Vance Jackson (if possible)
PF - Freeman and Omuruyi should eat up most of the minutes here. Though shifting Eugene back to SF could be an option as well, if he's able to develop a jumper this summer.
C - Doorson is an unknown with the foot. Johnson is *not* ready to play big minutes in the B1G (has a soft frame - really needs to hit the weights). Candido should be our starter, but again, his development on offense is critical. His shotblocking and rim protection would be great to have playing 25 minutes a night though if he is able to get his basketball IQ up.

In short, our roster isn't in a place where we're targeting specific positions - especially with this last roster spot. The best available player - whether that's another freshman or a grad transfer would be great.
 
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jrh51 said:
It's best player available to the staff - regardless of position.

PG - Souf is an unknown, and a veteran floor general to allow us to move Corey off ball would be a benefit for stretches.
SG - Our shooting woes are well documented. Geo doesnt have a B1G frame yet, and our bulldog Mike Williams will need a breather. Especially on nights when he's cold from deep.
SF - I'm hoping to see a big jump from Issa this year - provided he's adding to his frame this offseason. If the staff is targeting here, they'll just lock up Vance Jackson (if possible)
PF - Freeman and Omuruyi should eat up most of the minutes here. Though shifting Eugene back to SF could be an option as well, if he's able to develop a jumper this summer.
C - Doorson is an unknown with the foot. Johnson is *not* ready to play big minutes in the B1G (has a soft frame - really needs to hit the weights). Candido should be our starter, but again, his development on offense is critical. His shotblocking and rim protection would be great to have playing 25 minutes a night though if he is able to get his basketball IQ up.

In short, our roster isn't in a place where we're targeting specific positions - especially with this last roster spot. The best available player - whether that's another freshman or a grad transfer would be great.
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Bingo
 
I have a couple of ideas that give players like Eugene less to do and stabilize their roles by limiting their minutes to the PF spot and you could try and limit the minutes to Candido Sa at the 5 (assuming Doorson isn't 100%)....I think that makes more sense vs trying to find CJ Getty's 2.0 on the grad transfer market....

The guards and potential scoring from the guard position is where RU needs more than 50-60% of their offensive production....Sanders, Baker, Williams can all be counted on for points, but the question is can you expect double figures from all 3 players each and every night....I think Sanders and Williams are givens, Baker is likely, but not a safe bet as a freshman

If you had a 4th guard that can score and make an occasional 4 to 5 FT's a game, then you would have 4 guards capable of contributing 45 to 50 points most nights, in and out of conference ...then you are hopeful in finding 20 points from Freeman, Thiam and the front court....I don't see anyway to get to 70+ points, unless you have 4 guards capable of stroking 3's....especially without a SF beyond Thiam that can shoot from deep.

In the long term of solidifying the roles, Thiam at the SF and Eugene at the PF makes more sense than to try Thiam at the SG and SF and asking Eugene to play the SF and PF most games....Give the players a role they can grow into and let the guards be guards....

I would go guard and bypass trying to find more size....fortunately you have Myles Johnson, which is really the key....if Doorson isn't progressing this summer, then maybe you see what the late grad transfer market is, but I don't know if you need to fill this spot before July 1st....
 
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Would love to get a sense of Bullock's role this year. Can he play the 3? Will he be a factor? I know we need a shooter for the 3 so why not Bullock? With the last schollie, I'm leaning to a BIG, grad transfer that will keep us competitive on the boards and protect the rim especially with Doorson status of playing 20-25 min a game like CJ still up in the air.
 
4theknights said:
Would love to get a sense of Bullock's role this year. Can he play the 3? Will he be a factor? I know we need a shooter for the 3 so why not Bullock? With the last schollie, I'm leaning to a BIG, grad transfer that will keep us competitive on the boards and protect the rim especially with Doorson status of playing 20-25 min a game like CJ still up in the air.
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TBD.
 
NewJerseyHawk said:
I have a couple of ideas that give players like Eugene less to do and stabilize their roles by limiting their minutes to the PF spot and you could try and limit the minutes to Candido Sa at the 5 (assuming Doorson isn't 100%)....I think that makes more sense vs trying to find CJ Getty's 2.0 on the grad transfer market....

The guards and potential scoring from the guard position is where RU needs more than 50-60% of their offensive production....Sanders, Baker, Williams can all be counted on for points, but the question is can you expect double figures from all 3 players each and every night....I think Sanders and Williams are givens, Baker is likely, but not a safe bet as a freshman

If you had a 4th guard that can score and make an occasional 4 to 5 FT's a game, then you would have 4 guards capable of contributing 45 to 50 points most nights, in and out of conference ...then you are hopeful in finding 20 points from Freeman, Thiam and the front court....I don't see anyway to get to 70+ points, unless you have 4 guards capable of stroking 3's....especially without a SF beyond Thiam that can shoot from deep.

In the long term of solidifying the roles, Thiam at the SF and Eugene at the PF makes more sense than to try Thiam at the SG and SF and asking Eugene to play the SF and PF most games....Give the players a role they can grow into and let the guards be guards....

I would go guard and bypass trying to find more size....fortunately you have Myles Johnson, which is really the key....if Doorson isn't progressing this summer, then maybe you see what the late grad transfer market is, but I don't know if you need to fill this spot before July 1st....
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I would agree Hawk. As maligned as Nigel was among the RU faithful, I believe that's the spot that needs to be replaced. Another dependable combo guard added to the rotation of Sanders, Williams and Baker is key.

I've had the chance to see Myles Johnson play a couple times and I believe that he will surprise many with his skill level. I'm always a believer that the 1st thing you look at with any big is their footwork. I saw him drop step to the baseline and seal the defender multiple times which tells me it wasn't an accident. There have been big men who spent 4 years in an RU uniform that unfortunately never developed that skill.

My point being that many here believe freshman are unable to contribute to our rotation simply because they are freshman. The reality however is that there are freshman all over the country who play meaningful minutes that are significant to their teams. Not all of these frosh are 1 and done players either.

Historically, our recruiting has been at such a low level that many of the freshman we have had were simply not ready to play any meaningful minutes. We've seen how that worked.

IMO, as Pike and his staff build this thing we will start to see freshman come in and be a part of the rotation. That will one of the first indications that the program is starting to turn the corner. Bringing in more talent, regardless of whether they are freshman or transfers is the only way this gets better.
 
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I would definitely go scorer over big man if we can. We still don't have a reliable shooter for next year.

Doorson, Sa, and Johnson might not be too much worse of a front-court than last year. We'll no doubt miss Gettys but Johnson for Diallo may be a wash and Doorson and Sa have another year of experience. It's probably a lot harder to get a "big" who could contribute immediately (although we did last year).
 
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Everyone's expectations on this board of Johnson are WAY too high for this year. Geo will be a much bigger contributor. If Johnson is getting 10+ minutes a night - we're probably in trouble because that would mean Shaq &/or Candido are hurt or unproductive. Myles won't be strong enough to handle the B1G 5's down on the block on defense. Jay Young and PIkiell have already shown they will limit your minutes if you aren't playing defense to the level necessary. I'm not questioning Myles' effort obviously as I have no idea about his motor, but what i do see is a young frame lacking muscle mass (by no fault of his own - he's still a kid.) In short, his offensive game MAY be ready based on what is seen on tape, but his defense is the key question to his minutes.

It's easier to get by with a lean frame in college bball if you're a skilled guard - aka why Geo will get more burn.
 
4theknights said:
Would love to get a sense of Bullock's role this year. Can he play the 3? Will he be a factor? I know we need a shooter for the 3 so why not Bullock? With the last schollie, I'm leaning to a BIG, grad transfer that will keep us competitive on the boards and protect the rim especially with Doorson status of playing 20-25 min a game like CJ still up in the air.
Click to expand...

Because Bullock is not a 3-point shooter.

I suspect Bullock is really a power forward ... but he is 6'3" ... you cannot play PF at that height, not in the Big Ten. I would be very surprised if he ever materially contributes. But maybe I am wrong.
 
jrh51 said:
Everyone's expectations on this board of Johnson are WAY too high for this year. Geo will be a much bigger contributor. If Johnson is getting 10+ minutes a night - we're probably in trouble because that would mean Shaq &/or Candido are hurt or unproductive. Myles won't be strong enough to handle the B1G 5's down on the block on defense. Jay Young and PIkiell have already shown they will limit your minutes if you aren't playing defense to the level necessary. I'm not questioning Myles' effort obviously as I have no idea about his motor, but what i do see is a young frame lacking muscle mass (by no fault of his own - he's still a kid.) In short, his offensive game MAY be ready based on what is seen on tape, but his defense is the key question to his minutes.

It's easier to get by with a lean frame in college bball if you're a skilled guard - aka why Geo will get more burn.
Click to expand...

I actually believe Johnson is the key....he will be playing 20+ minutes because there isn't an available option to go to offensively....Doorson provides size, but his mobility is limited and he's not going to get into a position to play a lot of minutes this summer with his foot.

Johnson needs to face up shoot, grab a rebound and make a pass to a cutter and knock down a couple of FT's.....he will be the CJ Gettys, just a little better by February than he will be in November.

I think Geo steps right in for Nigel, with no drop off.....before people go crazy and start thinking of the Nigel at Northwestern and Nigel vs Ohio State, those were two very good/great offensive games for Johnson....there were also some clunkers thrown in there as well.

Baker is the least of my concerns right now, my expectations are in line with what a 3rd guard as a freshman does at this level....7-9PPG most nights...
 
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jrh51 said:
Everyone's expectations on this board of Johnson are WAY too high for this year. Geo will be a much bigger contributor. If Johnson is getting 10+ minutes a night - we're probably in trouble because that would mean Shaq &/or Candido are hurt or unproductive. Myles won't be strong enough to handle the B1G 5's down on the block on defense. Jay Young and PIkiell have already shown they will limit your minutes if you aren't playing defense to the level necessary. I'm not questioning Myles' effort obviously as I have no idea about his motor, but what i do see is a young frame lacking muscle mass (by no fault of his own - he's still a kid.) In short, his offensive game MAY be ready based on what is seen on tape, but his defense is the key question to his minutes.

It's easier to get by with a lean frame in college bball if you're a skilled guard - aka why Geo will get more burn.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with you about Johnson but it's really hard to tell. I expect Johnson to give us what Diallo did this year, which really isn't much at all.
 
Greene Rice FIG said:
1. freeman
2. sa
3. williams
4. doorson
5. sanders
6. thiam
7. eugene
8. kiss
9. bullock
10. baker
11. johnson

12. mensah (still not official)
13. ????

Do I have this right with 11 signed and sealed?

If I am right here I'd think a grad transfer would be best as we need a now player. The debate is whether that spot would be best as a guard/wing OR a big. The answer is probably the best player you can get irregardless of position, but if all is equal I'd say go with a guard/wing.
Click to expand...
Kiss isn't available until 2018
 
Doucoure definitely not reclassifying?

Still think we need another center, we are an injury away from Thiam playing PF minutes and/or Eugene playing center minutes.
 
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NewJerseyHawk said:
I actually believe Johnson is the key....he will be playing 20+ minutes because there isn't an available option to go to offensively....Doorson provides size, but his mobility is limited and he's not going to get into a position to play a lot of minutes this summer with his foot.

Johnson needs to face up shoot, grab a rebound and make a pass to a cutter and knock down a couple of FT's.....he will be the CJ Gettys, just a little better by February than he will be in November.

I think Geo steps right in for Nigel, with no drop off.....before people go crazy and start thinking of the Nigel at Northwestern and Nigel vs Ohio State, those were two very good/great offensive games for Johnson....there were also some clunkers thrown in there as well.

Baker is the least of my concerns right now, my expectations are in line with what a 3rd guard as a freshman does at this level....7-9PPG most nights...
Click to expand...

There is no chance that happens over the full season. I could see a scenario like that playing out during OOC scheduling, but there is no way that occurs during conference play. The same thing happened with Issa this year - his frame couldn't keep him on the court against the more supreme athletes in the B1G.

If Johnson is playing 20+ minutes a night, that's great - but he better be on campus now working with our S&C staff. I understand the optimism around his offensive game, and yes we could definitely use an inside presence for some scoring, but temper your expectations. He's a 17 year old kid, growing into his body - he can't guard the big men of the B1G right now. Isaac Haas, Happ, Nick Ward, Reggie Lynch will all be able to push him around in conference play.

Geo - I agree with you. Nigel's play was very overrated. He was a ball stopper, inconsistent on defense (and offense for that matter) and couldn't get into the lane to create his own shot. Geo should at minimum be a better shooter from the outside and passer than Nigel from day 1.
 
Thiam is a guard. I expect a big year from him especially if he can take ball to the hoop and release his shot high from the perimeter for makes. Also see him getting stronger with added weight and muscle.

GO RU
 
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jellyman said:
Because Bullock is not a 3-point shooter.

I suspect Bullock is really a power forward ... but he is 6'3" ... you cannot play PF at that height, not in the Big Ten. I would be very surprised if he ever materially contributes. But maybe I am wrong.
Click to expand...

Really a PF ? I'm not sure what you mean?

Any 6'3" player with good form on his shot can be a spot up 3 point shooter if they practice enough and have good form on your shot. Bullock has good form on his shot.

He has a big frame, anyone expecting him to drop down to 220 may be disappointed. He is big and crafty and some of those guys get over looked but can get it done. I like his game and have seen guys like this....they don't look the part but next thing you know, they are powering past you because they push right thru your attempted forearm check.

Let wait and see what he can do.



 
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RU fanatic said:
Kid from Illinois State is available. Just withdrew from draft. Averaged 12.5 last year. Could be worth a shot
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Click to expand...

i Like him. Shot 20% on 3's as a freshmen up to 35% last year. Another 10,000 shots over the summer and he'll probably be over 40% on 3's. Perfect example of a guy putting in the time to improve his shot......same can happen with Williams, Freeman, Sanders, Thiam, Bullock or anyone with good form on their shot. Eugene and Sa don't have good form....kinda awkward looking.

 
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Bullock can play. He should get an opportunity to be a rotation player this year, especially on this team where there is a lack of talent at the wing position. He can play both the 2 and the 3 position. he can certainly give RU more production than Laurent did last season. I think he'll surprise people
 
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I am wondering if adding a grad transfer who wants to be "the guy" on offense will upset any chemistry for the team.

I understand that this was a last place team last year so you can argue "who cares about chemistry" but with Freeman and Corey and Williams (to a lesser extent) being the main guys and upperclassmen who want to show out to try to get a chance at playing pro ball somewhere is there enough room for another guy like this? I guess you can argue that any good team has a bunch of main guys

Also, we have a bunch of young guys like Thiam, Bullock, Baker, Johnson and Omoruyi that may develop quicker if there wasn't another main guy that RU brings in

This was why Gettys was such a great addition last year, he was a team player who added some skill
 
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