Rutgers Barn vs Walsh Gymnasium
- Thread starter Tango Two
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When I attended Seton Hall Prep for two years our gym class was always in Walsh gym and was the site for every Essex County Basketball Tournament games. We also had our intramural basketball games there. I enjoyed my time at the Prep and in Walsh.
Interesting point of discussion, actually. I'm surprised it's never occurred to me before, since I like to geek out on these old buildings.
Hard to believe, but Walsh was considered a palace when it was built - arguably the finest venue in the east, and certainly in the discussion. The Palestra wasn't The Palestra yet; much of its fame comes from its endurance, though it's also still a terrific place to see a game. In 1939, right before Walsh was completed, Seton Hall had one of the best teams in the country and Walsh was seen as a field house befitting that stature. And for many years, it housed some very good and very important basketball.
It was only when Seton Hall deemphasized its program in the early '60s after the gambling scandal that the program - and with it, Walsh - receded into the background. Still, it played host to some wild and raucus early Big East battles, which is nuts to think about considering the place barely held 3,000 at the time. I've ever only seen dull and unimportant nonconference matchups there, but one was highlighted by Eddie Griffin's triple double against Norfolk State, which I believe remains the program's only such feat.
I know much less about The Barn and was only in it once, about ten years ago, when I just walked in in the middle of a weekday. As far as I could tell, I was the only one in the place, but it gave me a chance to take it in. It was cool. It and Walsh are about the same age - College Ave Gym is seven or eight years older - but it feels like it's from an earlier era than Walsh (then again, like I said, Walsh was considered a big leap forward in 1940). I don't know much history of what's occurred there other than the historic run to the Final Four in 1976 - which is a big deal by itself. I can't imagine what that was like, but it must have been unreal.
That probably carries with it some recency bias (such as it can be for an event 45 years ago), since more people today will recall, firsthand, that winter than can recall things like Seton Hall's 1953 team that rocked Walsh and really was the country's best that year. Still, it does seem like many of Seton Hall's notable games from the Walsh era still occurred elsewhere - on the road or at MSG.
There's a lot I don't know about The Barn in order to weigh this more thoroughly, but it's a damn good question and I'd say either place has a fair claim.
Hard to believe, but Walsh was considered a palace when it was built - arguably the finest venue in the east, and certainly in the discussion. The Palestra wasn't The Palestra yet; much of its fame comes from its endurance, though it's also still a terrific place to see a game. In 1939, right before Walsh was completed, Seton Hall had one of the best teams in the country and Walsh was seen as a field house befitting that stature. And for many years, it housed some very good and very important basketball.
It was only when Seton Hall deemphasized its program in the early '60s after the gambling scandal that the program - and with it, Walsh - receded into the background. Still, it played host to some wild and raucus early Big East battles, which is nuts to think about considering the place barely held 3,000 at the time. I've ever only seen dull and unimportant nonconference matchups there, but one was highlighted by Eddie Griffin's triple double against Norfolk State, which I believe remains the program's only such feat.
I know much less about The Barn and was only in it once, about ten years ago, when I just walked in in the middle of a weekday. As far as I could tell, I was the only one in the place, but it gave me a chance to take it in. It was cool. It and Walsh are about the same age - College Ave Gym is seven or eight years older - but it feels like it's from an earlier era than Walsh (then again, like I said, Walsh was considered a big leap forward in 1940). I don't know much history of what's occurred there other than the historic run to the Final Four in 1976 - which is a big deal by itself. I can't imagine what that was like, but it must have been unreal.
That probably carries with it some recency bias (such as it can be for an event 45 years ago), since more people today will recall, firsthand, that winter than can recall things like Seton Hall's 1953 team that rocked Walsh and really was the country's best that year. Still, it does seem like many of Seton Hall's notable games from the Walsh era still occurred elsewhere - on the road or at MSG.
There's a lot I don't know about The Barn in order to weigh this more thoroughly, but it's a damn good question and I'd say either place has a fair claim.
It’s hard to believe that the Barn can supposedly hold 3,200 people. Must have squeezed in like sardines.
Tough to argue with Carino's point, the Barn has been basically dead for 30+ years.
Princeton has Jadwin Gym, which is about 50 or so years old, has had a lot of events there (hoops, track and field etc).
I am not going to quibble with Walsh Gym or anything associated with it....it was a nice renovation of the SHU gym which had some storm damage from Ida a few weeks ago (flooding etc). If it's known or referenced as the oldest gym or most historic, perhaps that is the case. All things written are opinions and this is classified as one of these cases. Anyone associated with college sports in NJ, is not thinking about Walsh Gym or the Barn on College Avenue as those types of buildings.
The historical status of Rutgers Stadium or the RAC is ultimately where things happen in NJ in recent decades for HS and College sports events. Maybe you can throw Kean in there, they have a nice gym that does a good job with HS tournaments etc and Monmouth has a nice gym, although it's obvious that it's not historical.
I am not going to quibble with Walsh Gym or anything associated with it....it was a nice renovation of the SHU gym which had some storm damage from Ida a few weeks ago (flooding etc). If it's known or referenced as the oldest gym or most historic, perhaps that is the case. All things written are opinions and this is classified as one of these cases. Anyone associated with college sports in NJ, is not thinking about Walsh Gym or the Barn on College Avenue as those types of buildings.
The historical status of Rutgers Stadium or the RAC is ultimately where things happen in NJ in recent decades for HS and College sports events. Maybe you can throw Kean in there, they have a nice gym that does a good job with HS tournaments etc and Monmouth has a nice gym, although it's obvious that it's not historical.
Kean's gym is a beautiful D-III gym, though only about 15 years old, if that. Coincidentally, prior to the final basketball game it hosted, I wrote a historical retrospective on Kean's previous place, D'Angola Gym, which actually did have a decent amount of history, at least relative to that scene.
I think for this topic, though, "nice" is almost irrelevant. Walsh isn't nice (although, as you point out, they just did a nice reno on it), and The Barn looks like it was transported from 70 years ago, which is actually cool for historical purposes, even if it would be a nightmare for Rutgers to still call it "home."
I'd really like to see the Barn completely renovated at some point. Bring it up to modern standards but keep the old historical charm. Having a good secondary gym is very common with many of our peers. If you have the capacity of 4,000 or so, it would be a great venue for volleyball and maybe gymnastics. I know some of those events are being moved to the Rac but having another gym gives some flexibility and might even create a nice home venue advantage by filling it up rather than competing with a half or less filled Rac.
Round about 2005 the folks at MSG told St. John's that they only wanted about half their home games, the Johnnies had to step up and expand the on-campus Canesecca, which now sits about 5,500. SHU investing in the Walsh makes me wonder if the Pru wants fewer games. This season St. Johns only has 5 games in MSG.
The Barn's most unique attribute, imo, is the non-solid wall between the arena and the pool. Combined with the condensed size of the gym, it amplifies any crowd noise whatsoever like a massive drum. I've been to volleyball games that had a full Riot Squad contingent along with a small pep band; the arena wasn't even a quarter full and it got loud. All it really needs, imo, is some air conditioning to make it more suitable for events. (And a new auxiliary wing to bring it up to modern fitness standards, since its basement is still the main gym for college ave.)
It's debatable I guess but Jerry put no qualifiers in his statement. Didn't say Walsh was "arguably" or "one of" NJ's most historic gyms. The Barn opened in 1932 and Walsh opened in 1941. Seton Hall had some great teams in the early '50's before the gambling scandals and, I'm no Seton Hall basketball scholar, but not sure what great history was made in the next 20-25 years when it was their home court. The Barn was home to one of the biggest events in NJ college basketball history when Rutgers went 26-0 with paint chips falling, etc. That's legendary stuff. Not to mention Jimmy V giving his "Your family, your religion, and the Green Bay Packers" speech to Bob Wenzel's freshman team (50/50 chance it was home).
Oh, and let's not forget the Barn was the site of concerts from some nobodies like Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, Bob Dylan, The Clash, et. al. But I guess maybe you don't want to count that because it's not like anyone thinks of MSG as anything but the home of the Knicks.
Oh, and let's not forget the Barn was the site of concerts from some nobodies like Bruce Springsteen, Billy Joel, Bob Dylan, The Clash, et. al. But I guess maybe you don't want to count that because it's not like anyone thinks of MSG as anything but the home of the Knicks.
I'm pretty sure the actual site of that game was the parking lot behind College Ave. Gym.
I'm surprised at that, too. He's pretty up on Rutgers history.
Both places have a legit claim, but I'd definitely qualify it either way.
Not sure how someone can do two beats. Don’t practices , games and road trips overlap . Seems half assed.
lol he's on the road very very often during basketball season. If SHU and RU both have home games then he generally goes to the more marquee matchup. He's all over the place to cover college hoops in Jersey. There are some nits you can pick with his coverage but "half assed" is absolutely not one of them.
I didn’t say it was his coverage that was half assed. It’s the management decision to have 2 teams and 1 writer that is half assed
Seems to be apocryphal. This is the way I always understood the story, well prior to the publication of this 2019 piece:Here is the plaque IN THE BARN
Sounds historic
How the birthplace of college football became a Rutgers University parking lot 150 years later
Yep the BARN parking lot, but I’m sure when they built the barn they were careful to avoid the entire footprint of the field 😉. Anyway you look at it the Birthplace of College Football and the Barn are forever linked… thats history to me.
From the article:
“The field probably extended to where the gym is now.”
'Nuff said.
Walsh gym I believe will now only seat about 1,600 or 1,800 after the renovation. They could not have regular season B-Ball games there. I believe they will play D-2 Nyack there this coming season. I think it would be nice to renovate The Barn with 4,000 seats if it could be done at not an extraordinary amount of money. I think it could be good for volleyball and gymnastics and could be ideal.
Probably 'nuff said.
Anyway, I have no stake in this field thing, which is a different discussion from the Walsh-or-Barn discussion. But it was always my impression that the parking lot was the site of the field well before this story was published, so that's been the story for a long time. Maybe it's not truly verifiable; it's likely that no one bothered to record the precise dimensions and location.
Carino is wrong. The most historic sports gym in New Jersey is Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City :) It's not even close really.
It's older than Walsh and the Barn and it's in the National Register of Historic Places.
In addition to college basketball (including a number of years hosting the A10 tournament), it hosted many football games (the Liberty Bowl was actually held there once in the sixties - Utah played West Virginia), heavyweight prize fights (several Tyson fights), a regular season NBA game back in the day, ice hockey, tennis, professional wrestling and even auto racing, and it was the home of the Miss America Pageant and the 1964 Democratic Convention.
It's older than Walsh and the Barn and it's in the National Register of Historic Places.
In addition to college basketball (including a number of years hosting the A10 tournament), it hosted many football games (the Liberty Bowl was actually held there once in the sixties - Utah played West Virginia), heavyweight prize fights (several Tyson fights), a regular season NBA game back in the day, ice hockey, tennis, professional wrestling and even auto racing, and it was the home of the Miss America Pageant and the 1964 Democratic Convention.
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