ADVERTISEMENT

Sanders represents our only chance to turn what is fast becoming ...

Drsupremo

Redshirt
Feb 15, 2010
55
98
18
our fools gold season into a bronze one. Otherwise, the season is about to go down the toilet.

In order for RU to win a few games the rest of the season, Sanders must dominate the offense. Enough with the play-making effort --- never take an outside shot, pass to others, etc. It isn't working, because no one on this team can shoot on a consistent basis - not one player, not even Mike Williams. He only makes an outside shot if all goes perfectly -- his rhythm, his feet, his shoulders, etc. If any element of his stroke is affected, he misses. The supposed sharpshooter, Thiam shoots like he's 5'6" tall. In my view, he will never be a reliable shooter if he doesn't completely change his approach, not to mention his physique, if that is even possible. Nigel Johnson is in a major slump. He has the skills, so it would seem, but his shooting over the last few games is god awful. He fades away more than he goes straight up. He has failed to draw iron on what seems like 3 out 4 of his 3 point shot attempts.

As for our front court, Getty's must sit. He cannot match up against this level of competition. He hardly jumps -- ever--, he can barely run down the court. He has good hands and can post up, but he is playing way too many minutes. Sa must be the Center going forward. Once he develops more of a rhythm he will begin to hit his outside shot more consistently. Doorson and Diallo are projects. They have no offensive moves at all.

As I said before, as to Freeman, our most skilled "big" man, he is woefully undersized and unless he changes his approach on the offensive side of the ball -- by shooting 10-15' jumpers, moving without the ball, running, etc. -- he will get pounded underneath. Laurent is a nearly identical player. Although he shows flashes, he has to get more minutes and he has to take 15' jumpers more often.
To sum up, in my view, Sanders must look to score 3 out of the 4 times he has the ball in his hands. He must put this team on his back and start to take over the game. He cannot lower his head and drive every time. He must develop a left hand -- he has (to my recollection), never shot a left handed layup and start taking open shots from the 3 point line. Once the opposition begins to key on Sanders then his teammates will have step up and make a shot.

The starting 5 should be Sanders, Williams, Sa, Freeman and Laurent.

I would then rotate in Johnson (first guard), Eugene (2nd guard), Doorson (center) and use Thiam as either a guard or small forward.


I watched Nebraska beat Indiana at home the other night. They have a team of rookies and no names, but they won the game because they kept on knocking down shots when they were left open. We will never win a game like that if we can't make shots. It is as simple as that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: soundcrib
Interesting post. Not a BB x's & o guy, but some of what OP states makes sense to me.
 
Completely agree. Sanders is our best player by far. Its time for him to be more offensive. Haven't seen 1 step back jumper all season. Pass first PG is only effective when he has someone to pass to.
 
Why are Nebraska's and PSU's highly touted freshman recruits considered no-names???

Every school in the B1G has a coaching staff that has been in place for at least 3-4 years to flush and get through the players they inherited or to stack 2-3 or more recruiting classes together of players that perhaps fit their respective systems better than before.

I suggested that RU needed to get their PPG on defense down from 81PPG to around 65PPG or lower....it's actually better than that.....When you are not freewheeling and running up and down the court, your PPG on offensive stats are going to be lower....

I saw a post suggesting the Sanders has "regressed".....he averaged 16PPG or more last year....now it's closer to 10PPG in slightly less minutes.....Sanders has a more all-around game and is learning the position....playing reckless and freewheeling, got RU 1-17 last year for last year in the conference and 7-22 or 7-23 overall....

There is no regression as much as a different system in place. Should we allow Sanders to freewheel again or take shots outside of the offense or can Sanders learn to jump-stop, pump fake vs trying to get past guards and get wild layups that are not likely to go in against bigger guards or double teams???

I think we need to just run more and attempt to score in transition, but we aren't a fast team, so we would not be getting back in transition defense either.

Let's stay with the notion that Nigel is 1-8 vs PSU and Corey was 1-11 at Wisconsin....I would like to think there will be a few games where that stat won't be quite as low a percentage. I'm more apt to stick with the game plan for another month and sort through this and see where else we can find points, vs asking for more of Sanders/Johnson and Williams....
 
Why are Nebraska's and PSU's highly touted freshman recruits considered no-names???

Every school in the B1G has a coaching staff that has been in place for at least 3-4 years to flush and get through the players they inherited or to stack 2-3 or more recruiting classes together of players that perhaps fit their respective systems better than before.

I suggested that RU needed to get their PPG on defense down from 81PPG to around 65PPG or lower....it's actually better than that.....When you are not freewheeling and running up and down the court, your PPG on offensive stats are going to be lower....

I saw a post suggesting the Sanders has "regressed".....he averaged 16PPG or more last year....now it's closer to 10PPG in slightly less minutes.....Sanders has a more all-around game and is learning the position....playing reckless and freewheeling, got RU 1-17 last year for last year in the conference and 7-22 or 7-23 overall....

There is no regression as much as a different system in place. Should we allow Sanders to freewheel again or take shots outside of the offense or can Sanders learn to jump-stop, pump fake vs trying to get past guards and get wild layups that are not likely to go in against bigger guards or double teams???

I think we need to just run more and attempt to score in transition, but we aren't a fast team, so we would not be getting back in transition defense either.

Let's stay with the notion that Nigel is 1-8 vs PSU and Corey was 1-11 at Wisconsin....I would like to think there will be a few games where that stat won't be quite as low a percentage. I'm more apt to stick with the game plan for another month and sort through this and see where else we can find points, vs asking for more of Sanders/Johnson and Williams....

He absolutely has regressed. You would have a point if his shooting percentage was up this year, but it's down significantly
 
Why are Nebraska's and PSU's highly touted freshman recruits considered no-names???

Every school in the B1G has a coaching staff that has been in place for at least 3-4 years to flush and get through the players they inherited or to stack 2-3 or more recruiting classes together of players that perhaps fit their respective systems better than before.

I suggested that RU needed to get their PPG on defense down from 81PPG to around 65PPG or lower....it's actually better than that.....When you are not freewheeling and running up and down the court, your PPG on offensive stats are going to be lower....

I saw a post suggesting the Sanders has "regressed".....he averaged 16PPG or more last year....now it's closer to 10PPG in slightly less minutes.....Sanders has a more all-around game and is learning the position....playing reckless and freewheeling, got RU 1-17 last year for last year in the conference and 7-22 or 7-23 overall....

There is no regression as much as a different system in place. Should we allow Sanders to freewheel again or take shots outside of the offense or can Sanders learn to jump-stop, pump fake vs trying to get past guards and get wild layups that are not likely to go in against bigger guards or double teams???

I think we need to just run more and attempt to score in transition, but we aren't a fast team, so we would not be getting back in transition defense either.

Let's stay with the notion that Nigel is 1-8 vs PSU and Corey was 1-11 at Wisconsin....I would like to think there will be a few games where that stat won't be quite as low a percentage. I'm more apt to stick with the game plan for another month and sort through this and see where else we can find points, vs asking for more of Sanders/Johnson and Williams....
Need to recruit shooters. There is zero threat from 10ft out..which in itself not a dagger to the heart but when you don't have anybody that can finish down low your team is very very exposed. Dont disagree with what Pike is doing they need to be disciplined but he does not have the components in place yet to run his offense.
My thing is that when your down by 15 you can't keep playing a half court set and relying on your defense to make stops they can't make. You need to pick the pace up and change the flow of the game they have 2 guards that play completely out of control but are capable of stepping it up
 
Pretty much have the complete opposite take as the OP. Sanders is a liability on O now, Freeman can't shoot 12-15 foot jumpers and Williams is by far our most consistent shooter.

Watching Corey dribble around for 30 seconds before throwing up a brick or another out of control lay up is the absolute worst thing the TEAM can do. Keep working on instilling the offense. Eventually guys will be in those spots who can shoot. Hopefully. And play through the post more. CJ is skilled enough to at least garner some attention and he passes well for a big man. As to Laurent, if. I am playing 11 guys, he is number 11.

That, and run a little more. Corey is a great athlete and can help on the D end provided he plays more team concept D and takes less risks, which he had been doing.

But he ain't Mike Jordan offense or close to it. Teams give him open looks from 3 all day and he usually doesn't take them. Obvious why. He needs to play more in control and take less prayer drives, not more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: S_Janowski
our fools gold season into a bronze one. Otherwise, the season is about to go down the toilet.

In order for RU to win a few games the rest of the season, Sanders must dominate the offense. Enough with the play-making effort --- never take an outside shot, pass to others, etc. It isn't working, because no one on this team can shoot on a consistent basis - not one player, not even Mike Williams. He only makes an outside shot if all goes perfectly -- his rhythm, his feet, his shoulders, etc. If any element of his stroke is affected, he misses. The supposed sharpshooter, Thiam shoots like he's 5'6" tall. In my view, he will never be a reliable shooter if he doesn't completely change his approach, not to mention his physique, if that is even possible. Nigel Johnson is in a major slump. He has the skills, so it would seem, but his shooting over the last few games is god awful. He fades away more than he goes straight up. He has failed to draw iron on what seems like 3 out 4 of his 3 point shot attempts.

As for our front court, Getty's must sit. He cannot match up against this level of competition. He hardly jumps -- ever--, he can barely run down the court. He has good hands and can post up, but he is playing way too many minutes. Sa must be the Center going forward. Once he develops more of a rhythm he will begin to hit his outside shot more consistently. Doorson and Diallo are projects. They have no offensive moves at all.

As I said before, as to Freeman, our most skilled "big" man, he is woefully undersized and unless he changes his approach on the offensive side of the ball -- by shooting 10-15' jumpers, moving without the ball, running, etc. -- he will get pounded underneath. Laurent is a nearly identical player. Although he shows flashes, he has to get more minutes and he has to take 15' jumpers more often.
To sum up, in my view, Sanders must look to score 3 out of the 4 times he has the ball in his hands. He must put this team on his back and start to take over the game. He cannot lower his head and drive every time. He must develop a left hand -- he has (to my recollection), never shot a left handed layup and start taking open shots from the 3 point line. Once the opposition begins to key on Sanders then his teammates will have step up and make a shot.

The starting 5 should be Sanders, Williams, Sa, Freeman and Laurent.

I would then rotate in Johnson (first guard), Eugene (2nd guard), Doorson (center) and use Thiam as either a guard or small forward.


I watched Nebraska beat Indiana at home the other night. They have a team of rookies and no names, but they won the game because they kept on knocking down shots when they were left open. We will never win a game like that if we can't make shots. It is as simple as that.

Agree with some of your points but if you think the solution is for Sanders to put the team on his back and shoot 3/4 times he has the ball in his hands you're nuts lol. You're being way to hard on Mike Williams who has been our best all around player so far and has improved his stroke from last year.

Have you watched Sanders at all this year? He has definitely regressed. His shot is so off and when he does try to put the team on his back it often results in a wild drive to the hoop and a forced layup. Last year he definitely benefited from being the go to guy and had pretty much free reign to do whatever he pleased and he excelled because this is the style he played growing up. This year he has more pieces surrounding him and is clearly struggling to find his identity in Pikells offense.

If Sanders FG % was halfway decent I might agree with you in that he needs to find a way to get more shots off and shoot more 3's. His shot has been putrid this year so that's not gonna be the answer.

I would like Laurent to get more minutes and touches and sit Thiam some more. He is getting way too many minutes for this production he's giving us. Just because he lights it up in practice and pregame doesn't mean he should be getting 25 mins a game. His release is painfully slow and he struggles to get his own shot off.
 
So give the keys back to Sanders and what, win the amount of games the team won last year? Do you remember this year how the team won 11 games?


Team game. Sanders does not have the tools to put the team on his back. We should not want him to do that anyway. He is not that player right now.


I am confused. Help me understand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: S_Janowski
You're relying on a 6-2 guard who can't shoot to put the team on his back offensively? No B1G coach worth the going pawn shop rate on his playbook is going to give him the space to drive. It's more likely that they're going to sag off him, make him prove he can make open jumpers, and turn the inevitable bricks into transition dunks.
 
our fools gold season into a bronze one. Otherwise, the season is about to go down the toilet.

In order for RU to win a few games the rest of the season, Sanders must dominate the offense. Enough with the play-making effort --- never take an outside shot, pass to others, etc. It isn't working, because no one on this team can shoot on a consistent basis - not one player, not even Mike Williams. He only makes an outside shot if all goes perfectly -- his rhythm, his feet, his shoulders, etc. If any element of his stroke is affected, he misses. The supposed sharpshooter, Thiam shoots like he's 5'6" tall. In my view, he will never be a reliable shooter if he doesn't completely change his approach, not to mention his physique, if that is even possible. Nigel Johnson is in a major slump. He has the skills, so it would seem, but his shooting over the last few games is god awful. He fades away more than he goes straight up. He has failed to draw iron on what seems like 3 out 4 of his 3 point shot attempts.

As for our front court, Getty's must sit. He cannot match up against this level of competition. He hardly jumps -- ever--, he can barely run down the court. He has good hands and can post up, but he is playing way too many minutes. Sa must be the Center going forward. Once he develops more of a rhythm he will begin to hit his outside shot more consistently. Doorson and Diallo are projects. They have no offensive moves at all.

As I said before, as to Freeman, our most skilled "big" man, he is woefully undersized and unless he changes his approach on the offensive side of the ball -- by shooting 10-15' jumpers, moving without the ball, running, etc. -- he will get pounded underneath. Laurent is a nearly identical player. Although he shows flashes, he has to get more minutes and he has to take 15' jumpers more often.
To sum up, in my view, Sanders must look to score 3 out of the 4 times he has the ball in his hands. He must put this team on his back and start to take over the game. He cannot lower his head and drive every time. He must develop a left hand -- he has (to my recollection), never shot a left handed layup and start taking open shots from the 3 point line. Once the opposition begins to key on Sanders then his teammates will have step up and make a shot.

The starting 5 should be Sanders, Williams, Sa, Freeman and Laurent.

I would then rotate in Johnson (first guard), Eugene (2nd guard), Doorson (center) and use Thiam as either a guard or small forward.


I watched Nebraska beat Indiana at home the other night. They have a team of rookies and no names, but they won the game because they kept on knocking down shots when they were left open. We will never win a game like that if we can't make shots. It is as simple as that.

Disagree immensely. Getty has been far more productive than Freeman. Laurent is the enigma. Williams is way too streaky both good and bad so does appear better suited coming off the bench. I know it's asking a lot but I would love to see Sanders and Williams apply more pressure on other teams guards. Strength of or team and D. If Nigel not shooting well would love to see him be more of a point guard and let Sanders improvise a bit more.
 
Not sure what the answer is offensively. Pikiell said we shot too many 3s and the number should be 10 and not 21. Not sure how you win without making 3s.

Good shooters miss short and long. I saw some of the ugliest misses last night.

Thiam has little rotation on his shot. Nigel has a side spin. (Don't mention Tim hardaway). Sa missed brutally. Sanders is a mess right now and has no business trying until he gets something fixed. Not sure what he is doing wrong, but it is not his shot from last year.
 
Why are Nebraska's and PSU's highly touted freshman recruits considered no-names???

Every school in the B1G has a coaching staff that has been in place for at least 3-4 years to flush and get through the players they inherited or to stack 2-3 or more recruiting classes together of players that perhaps fit their respective systems better than before.

I suggested that RU needed to get their PPG on defense down from 81PPG to around 65PPG or lower....it's actually better than that.....When you are not freewheeling and running up and down the court, your PPG on offensive stats are going to be lower....

I saw a post suggesting the Sanders has "regressed".....he averaged 16PPG or more last year....now it's closer to 10PPG in slightly less minutes.....Sanders has a more all-around game and is learning the position....playing reckless and freewheeling, got RU 1-17 last year for last year in the conference and 7-22 or 7-23 overall....

There is no regression as much as a different system in place. Should we allow Sanders to freewheel again or take shots outside of the offense or can Sanders learn to jump-stop, pump fake vs trying to get past guards and get wild layups that are not likely to go in against bigger guards or double teams???

I think we need to just run more and attempt to score in transition, but we aren't a fast team, so we would not be getting back in transition defense either.

Let's stay with the notion that Nigel is 1-8 vs PSU and Corey was 1-11 at Wisconsin....I would like to think there will be a few games where that stat won't be quite as low a percentage. I'm more apt to stick with the game plan for another month and sort through this and see where else we can find points, vs asking for more of Sanders/Johnson and Williams....
I agree with much of what you stated. Corey is playing as a more complete player and we have more guys getting minutes, which they should. The bottom line is that we don't have any consistency from the outside. If Thiam can start hitting and Williams can be more consistent that will open up the offense down low.

I think Freeman is really more of a three. He has the moves and can easily score outside. He is just woefully too small inside and it has hurt his game. There's no reason that Freeman shouldn't be consistently hitting from fifteen feet-in and averaging at least 12 per game even in the B1G. And we're not getting enough offense from our BIGS. CJ is what he is. He has great court awareness and finesse and touch down low, but we need for him to play "mad" and dunk more. He'll get to the FT line more and it will encourage confidence in Doorson and Diallo, because too many times they try to do a layup or tip it back up. And they CANNOT keep putting the ball on the floor.

Nigel is in a funk. No doubt about it. We need him to get going more, because we need both he and Corey to wreak havoc on the defense, but against the better teams one of them is always off. That needs to change. Yes, I know good defense will do that, but PSU didn't do that to either of them. They did it to themselves. They played out of control and got too deep in the paint and didn't know where to go with the ball and forced bad passes and bad shots.

One last thing: our defense this year is night and day compared to last year. But still we don't do a good enough job at contesting three point land, and we saw what can happen yesterday when one kid gets hot. Before yesterday, that kid who nailed five threes had only hit three threes in all previous games. We need to do better outside the three point arc, because it's killing us now.
 
I think by now that there is a general consensus that Rutgers has a poor half court offense.As such I would press full court trying to get turnovers and easy baskets,Pickiell already is playing over 10 players so there are plenty of players to substitute which already is happening with limited pressing.Squeezing out 5-10 points by pressing could be the difference between winning and losing.The notion that this team suddenly will become a more productive offense is nothing more than wishful thinking and not supported by the skillset of the players.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bac2therac
Not sure what the answer is offensively. Pikiell said we shot too many 3s and the number should be 10 and not 21. Not sure how you win without making 3s.

Good shooters miss short and long. I saw some of the ugliest misses last night.

Thiam has little rotation on his shot. Nigel has a side spin. (Don't mention Tim hardaway). Sa missed brutally. Sanders is a mess right now and has no business trying until he gets something fixed. Not sure what he is doing wrong, but it is not his shot from last year.

How about Jamaal Wilkes?;)
 
Completely agree. Sanders is our best player by far. Its time for him to be more offensive. Haven't seen 1 step back jumper all season. Pass first PG is only effective when he has someone to pass to.


If you're the shooter ....you either shoot it or pass it to yourself!

MO
 
Team played better when CJ was in there. Penn State went on their 14-0 run when CJ was on the bench. When he's in the game CJ is a net positive for us, on both ends of the court.

Nigel, Issa and Eugene shot a combined 1-16 for us. That, along with too many careless unforced turnovers (plus 2 questionable offensive foul calls on Shaq) were what did us in.
 
But the team rebounds by commission, so transition play will be threatened.

This is true...looked at some DREB stats on kenpom. Sa and Thiam have disappointing defensive rebounding numbers. Our guards are higher than most other guards
 
We had one bad game against a team who has played the 30th toughest schedule in the country and has athletes who run the floor well and can shoot the 3.

I was very concerned about this game as I said in my last hoops post prediction thread. I saw this team whip St. John's and it was a beat down.

How about this? Instead of changing what has worked this year; let's get back to what has worked as that's playing like a team, great defense and rebounding and the shots will fall if we can be more patient. I don't like the bad shots taken by some of the guys and I'm only saying they are bad shots because I think we can get better options. I don't want to see Freeman and Sa taking jump shots. But also credit the penn state defense and it was smothering at times. One thing is still the case in that we are still slow with ball movement compared to where we need to be in the Big 10. We have to get a few steps quicker and that's one thing we lacked last year as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zebnatto
Regarding Sanders....

A little side story going on here. Sanders has been losing time and didn't play a lot in crunch time in games because of defense.

If Baker plays D and is a pure point guard or is going to be very interesting to see how Sanders could potentially take seeing his minutes chopped. Freeman in this boat too.
 
Regarding Sanders....

A little side story going on here. Sanders has been losing time and didn't play a lot in crunch time in games because of defense.

If Baker plays D and is a pure point guard or is going to be very interesting to see how Sanders could potentially take seeing his minutes chopped. Freeman in this boat too.


Thiam is just not ready this year. The focus I am sure at one point will be shifting him to get bigger, so he will play more comfortably at this level. I am not expecting much out of Thiam. He will become a factor, but this year I am fine with where he is.

I think Sa eventually(3 games more) splits minutes with Freeman.

Baker is not a pure PG, and those are becoming a rarity as we know. Baker plays off the ball, and his best friend handles the ball 75% of the time. He is a scoring guard that can also make some nice passes.

A combo guard potentially, but more of a shooting guard than a point guard.

Once Sanders finds his shot, he will get back out there and play the majority of time at PG. It makes sense. Him or Johnson.
 
Sa needs to rebound better before taking Freeman's minutes. one thing Thiam has going for him is he has a decent BB IQ. I think as the season progresses the minutes of Eugene and Issa go up.
 
By necessity Pikiell has played 3 small guards at the same time because the front court has provided very little offense.More of the same will probably happen in future games.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT