Selection Committees, WBCA Coaches, NJ HS Coaches: Why is CVS so unpopular?

[RC66]

Is it true? Is CVS and her program unpopular? Why is the refrain on this board always that every year the Committee looks for ways to screw RU?

And if it is true, why is it true? What has she done to earn this disrespect by coaches?

And add to that...

the fact that nowadays recruits throughout the country share information: they all know each other through social media and summer tourneys (Boo Williams, US trials, etc.) and TALK to each other about coaches and programs...

So, for example...

for 2018, we have 1 top-100 recruit coming in. Michigan, for example, has 4. Even Illinois has 2.

 

[RutgersDon]

Time go

 

[bac2therac]

just from what I have read from here, she apparently does not show up at alot of these events and hobknobs making them feel important.

as for the NCAA screwing RU...I don't believe it, most of the time it relates to a situation RU put itself in for losing. Also the NCAA womens committee aint the sharpest tools in the shed in general

and I would say playing a style that is 20 years past its prime is a big factor. I would assume most players want to play at a school that has an offense and is uptempo and coaches want to send their players to coaches that can hone their offensive skills. The game is about scoring,just about every top team has a great defense.,

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

it's a great question.
I don't often use the phrase "perception is reality" but in this case I believe it.
I really wish she had gotten 1000 because it is clearly time to move on in mutually respectful manner.
This year was our shot. We won't be sniffing the tourney for some more time. So what will it be 1 of 8,9, or 10 years?
Lets not do to the women's program what was done to the men's .

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

just from what I have read from here, she apparently does not show up at alot of these events and hobknobs making them feel important.

as for the NCAA screwing RU...I don't believe it, most of the time it relates to a situation RU put itself in for losing. Also the NCAA womens committee aint the sharpest tools in the shed in general

and I would say playing a style that is 20 years past its prime is a big factor. I would assume most players want to play at a school that has an offense and is uptempo and coaches want to send their players to coaches that can hone their offensive skills. The game is about scoring,just about every top team has a great defense.,

completely unimpressed by the women's chair. And the analysts inability to ask the hard questions.
Feel bad for the women players. Between the refs, the committee, and the folks that cover them...they are the only tough group. The rest seem like a decade or two behind.

 

[kupuna133]

Not well thought of in the shore area. She should be dominating one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country, especially one in her own backyard.

 

[bac2therac]

consider that CVS had Tyler Scaife one of our all time greats yet she only made one NCAA tourney in her 4 years...2 WNITs which would have been 3....Scaife played with 3 WNBA players...Laney, Copper, Hollivay...so the idea that the talent wasnt there is bs. It was mismanaged and totally underutilized.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

consider that CVS had Tyler Scaife one of our all time greats yet she only made one NCAA tourney in her 4 years...2 WNITs which would have been 3....Scaife played with 3 WNBA players...Laney, Copper, Hollivay...so the idea that the talent wasnt there is bs. It was mismanaged and totally underutilized.

don't get me started on THAT subject lol.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Not well thought of in the shore area. She should be dominating one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country, especially one in her own backyard.

backyard? How about across the Raritan in Franklin.

 

[kupuna133]

backyard? How about across the Raritan in Franklin.

Know the area well. Stringer uses the excuse that "suburban" kids don't understand her mentality. Read that anyway you want.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Know the area well. Stringer uses the excuse that "suburban" kids don't understand her mentality. Read that anyway you want.

cept. that I don't see Franklin as that suburban. I thought it has some of the toughness she would like. right next to one of the harder areas of New Brunswick down 27 and Hamilton.

 

[kupuna133]

cept. that I don't see Franklin as that suburban. I thought it has some of the toughness she would like. right next to one of the harder areas of New Brunswick down 27 and Hamilton.

Was more responding to the Shore area vs. Franklin. Grew up in the Franklin area. The fact that she is not appealing to the Franklin/Rutgers Prep kids and to a lesser extent the Shore kids shows she is no longer the right person for the job.

 

[King of S]

Time go

Can't go - Extension Happy Hobbs made sure of that.

 

[njrexguy]

So she will get her 1000 next season, probably no tournament in the near future.

Hopefully both Rutgers and CVS will move on, and Hobbs can start to move the program in a new and exciting direction.

Sad that some current players won't get the chance to go dancing because of this year's shortsighted decision not to go to the WNIT.

 

[RUChoppin]

as for the NCAA screwing RU...I don't believe it, most of the time it relates to a situation RU put itself in for losing. Also the NCAA womens committee aint the sharpest tools in the shed in general

A lot of this sentiment goes back to frequently being matched against lower seeds in earlier rounds at venues either on or very close to their campus.

2004: #7 Rutgers vs. #10 Chattanooga in Chattanooga, TN
2005: #3 Rutgers vs. #14 Hartford in Storrs, CT
2007: #4 Rutgers vs. #5 Michigan St in East Lansing, MI
2008: #2 Rutgers vs. #7 Iowa St in Des Moines, IA
2011: #7 Rutgers vs. #10 Louisiana Tech in Bossier City, LA
2012: #6 Rutgers vs. #11 Gonzaga in Spokane, WA

 

[njrexguy]

She can and should go after next season. Extension really won't be a factor after the conclusion of 2019 season. She will have her milestone win and Hobbs will have her 2019 performance to do what he needs to do.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

A lot of this sentiment goes back to frequently being matched against lower seeds in earlier rounds at venues either on or very close to their campus.

2004: #7 Rutgers vs. #10 Chattanooga in Chattanooga, TN
2005: #3 Rutgers vs. #14 Hartford in Storrs, CT
2007: #4 Rutgers vs. #5 Michigan St in East Lansing, MI
2008: #2 Rutgers vs. #7 Iowa St in Des Moines, IA
2011: #7 Rutgers vs. #10 Louisiana Tech in Bossier City, LA
2012: #6 Rutgers vs. #11 Gonzaga in Spokane, WA

ouch...I had almost forgotten this. Send to Hobbs.

 

[bac2therac]

ouch...I had almost forgotten this. Send to Hobbs.

the unfortunate product of the northeast not being all the great for hosting sites...and RU did not bid many times to host, I think they originally gave it to higher seeds then went to predetermined sites, now its back to higher seeds

its not so much a RU screw as the womens committee is just incompetant in what they do. Yes I would say the Iowa State placement was certainly a screw job but if RU isnt putting in the bids to host they are at a disadvantage..take that up with Uncle Bob and Cousin Tim

 

[bac2therac]

I believe there was one year where RU was the 7 seed and got to play 2nd seed Auburn at the RAC and beat them...

 

[APKnight]

the unfortunate product of the northeast not being all the great for hosting sites...and RU did not bid many times to host, I think they originally gave it to higher seeds then went to predetermined sites, now its back to higher seeds

its not so much a RU screw as the womens committee is just incompetant in what they do. Yes I would say the Iowa State placement was certainly a screw job but if RU isnt putting in the bids to host they are at a disadvantage..take that up with Uncle Bob and Cousin Tim

Bac, you don’t have to go way out of your way to make it seem like your unbiased. You’re not working for a newspaper. It’s ok to be a homer on a message board. If you can’t see how we’ve been screwed over the years, your head is in the sand I’m afraid to say.

 

[rufeelinit]

I believe there was one year where RU was the 7 seed and got to play 2nd seed Auburn at the RAC and beat them...

Yes I believe while E. Prince was here. I was at that game.

 

[bac2therac]

Bac, you don’t have to go way out of your way to make it seem like your unbiased. You’re not working for a newspaper. It’s ok to be a homer on a message board. If you can’t see how we’ve been screwed over the years, your head is in the sand I’m afraid to say.

because sometimes its not as simple as just being screwed...for example when RU played in Spokane and Chatanooga as 6 and 7 seeds...that means the 3 and 2s were really screwed over because they were even better seeds have to play those 11 and 10s on those teams home courts

RU is also at a disadvantage because of UConn's dominance in the east which means they will have first dibs at regional and subregional locations...so RU had to play at Hartford..well that was the closest region, at least some fans could get there..would you rather have them shipped off to florida instead

 

[Knight Time Fan]

because sometimes its not as simple as just being screwed...for example when RU played in Spokane and Chatanooga as 6 and 7 seeds...that means the 3 and 2s were really screwed over because they were even better seeds have to play those 11 and 10s on those teams home courts

RU is also at a disadvantage because of UConn's dominance in the east which means they will have first dibs at regional and subregional locations...so RU had to play at Hartford..well that was the closest region, at least some fans could get there..would you rather have them shipped off to florida instead

My only argument is that it seemed to happen to Rutgers (and select other schools, in various ways) out of proportion. Our conclusion (in my house) was that the committee didn't look to screw RU, it just didn't look to favor RU and was unconcerned if RU got (mildly) screwed. Ditto a selection of other schools that have mild beefs. In many cases, what the NCAA did was "strictly" correct, but in some cases I believe they could have made a change to be fairer, and they didn't.

And unfortunately, yes, RU would be (on average, and the more-so the higher seeded they are) in UConn's bracket under current rules.

 

[Knight Time Fan]

To the original point -

I don't think Vivian is an "easy" person to know, understand or, necessarily, deal with. She is outspoken and has historically appeared sometimes engaged mouth before brain.

She is perceived as "old fashioned" by coaches, I expect, and yes, there are coaches that would probably not encourage their players to go to RU. At the same time, her development of WNBA talent is actually exceptional.

I suspect she doesn't glad-hand folks enough. I heard a story one time that the WBCA director walked up to her and before they could say hello Vivian was complaining about Rutgers seeding (and actually, this was in an article).

That said, she always attended the requisite fan programs and was always pleasant in person.

I will continue to support her coaching RU as long as the results are there. While disappointing to a degree, there is no comparing this season's results to last year. Huge improvement. What will next year bring?

 

[RUChoppin]

because sometimes its not as simple as just being screwed...for example when RU played in Spokane and Chatanooga as 6 and 7 seeds...that means the 3 and 2s were really screwed over because they were even better seeds have to play those 11 and 10s on those teams home court

Not so in 2004. #7 RU was sent to Chattanooga to play #10 Chattanooga. The #2/#15 matchup was between Vanderbilt and Lipscomb, both from TN. Rutgers was the only non-TN team in the pod playing in TN.

In 2012, when #6 RU was sent to Spokane to play #11 Gonzaga, the #3/#14 meeting was Miami/Idaho St - which I agree was also bad for Miami. #11 Gonzaga that year beat us and then Miami on their home floor to move onto the Sweet 16.

In 2011, #7 RU was sent to Bossier, LA vs. #10 Louisiana Tech. Also in that pod were #2 Texas A&M and #15 McNeese St. All three of the other schools in that pod were within 3.5 hr drive of Bossier, so again RU was the odd school out.

 

[shields]

Responding to 1984, Diamond Miller going to Maryland should make a lot of fans like me mad. Girl from Nutley went to Maryland two years ago.

 

[RUClassof67]

My only argument is that it seemed to happen to Rutgers (and select other schools, in various ways) out of proportion. Our conclusion (in my house) was that the committee didn't look to screw RU, it just didn't look to favor RU and was unconcerned if RU got (mildly) screwed. Ditto a selection of other schools that have mild beefs. In many cases, what the NCAA did was "strictly" correct, but in some cases I believe they could have made a change to be fairer, and they didn't.

And unfortunately, yes, RU would be (on average, and the more-so the higher seeded they are) in UConn's bracket under current rules.

It's like a basketball game that Brian Enterline is officiating. It just seems that most of the 50-50 calls go the other way.

 

[MADHAT1]

Can't go - Extension Happy Hobbs made sure of that.

Though I'm mad about the way this season ended and snubbing the WNIT as well, Hobbs made the right choice and I feel CVS should be the RUWBB HC next year.
But Hobbs must be ready to replace Vivian if the team doesn't reach the NCAA Tourney next year, for the third year in row. .
Either with the carrot retire as( Coach Emeritus) and have a say in replacement or be pushed out the door and wait for a retirement ceremony along with not having a voice in who takes over.

 

[bac2therac]

Not so in 2004. #7 RU was sent to Chattanooga to play #10 Cits in connattanooga. The #2/#15 matchup was between Vanderbilt and Lipscomb, both from TN. Rutgers was the only non-TN team in the pod playing in TN.

In 2012, when #6 RU was sent to Spokane to play #11 Gonzaga, the #3/#14 meeting was Miami/Idaho St - which I agree was also bad for Miami. #11 Gonzaga that year beat us and then Miami on their home floor to move onto the Sweet 16.

In 2011, #7 RU was sent to Bossier, LA vs. #10 Louisiana Tech. Also in that pod were #2 Texas A&M and #15 McNeese St. All three of the other schools in that pod were within 3.5 hr drive of Bossier, so again RU was the odd school out.

And seems to underscore some of what I said....the northeast seems to have schools hosting and when they do its in CConnecticut. When you are a not a top4 seed you cannot complain that much....any 7 would great screwed by going to Tennessee to play. Im trying to think why RU played at Michigan St..this may have been the year with predetermined sites.

Im just not buying the idea of a anti Rutgers conspiracy. .I think its really incompetence. .they are too stupid to know what they are doing...but I bet you some schools benefit at the expense of northeast schools

 

[RUChoppin]

And seems to underscore some of what I said....the northeast seems to have schools hosting and when they do its in CConnecticut. When you are a not a top4 seed you cannot complain that much....any 7 would great screwed by going to Tennessee to play. Im trying to think why RU played at Michigan St..this may have been the year with predetermined sites.

Im just not buying the idea of a anti Rutgers conspiracy. .I think its really incompetence. .they are too stupid to know what they are doing...but I bet you some schools benefit at the expense of northeast schools

It had become a running gag by 2008... which lower seed were we going to have to play in their home state?

The thing is - why put all those TN schools in the same pod, and then make the #7 have to come in to play there? I get having the top seeded school in the pod having a somewhat regional location - but 3 of the 4, and leaving the 2nd seeded school in the pod as the odd one out?

Looking more closely at that year, it was all fouled up.... a TON of higher seeds had to play lower seeds in their home states or home courts.

Crazy thing was that we got sent to TN as the #7 vs. a #10.... and TCU got sent to Philly as the #6 against #11 Temple.

 

[BeKnighted]

I looked at this at the time, and RU by far had the most games on a lower-seeded team's court during the predetermined sites period. (And, as I recall, during some of those years there were eight sites, which would have had more opportunities not to play another team on its home court, but somehow it happened to RU anyway.) RU did get home court one season when it was a lower seed, but that was it. (I was at the Auburn game and it was awesome - Kia's and Heather's last home game, and they went out in style.)

The committee's recent emphasis on putting teams close to home, instead of hewing to the S-curve has created a different problem, which is that RU has ended up in UConn's bracket because it's the closest regional, in the years that RU has made the tourney.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Though I'm mad about the way this season ended and snubbing the WNIT as well, Hobbs made the right choice and I feel CVS should be the RUWBB HC next year.
But Hobbs must be ready to replace Vivian if the team doesn't reach the NCAA Tourney next year, for the third year in row. .
Either with the carrot retire as( Coach Emeritus) and have a say in replacement or be pushed out the door and wait for a retirement ceremony along with not having a voice in who takes over.

When she does go I do not want her having a say in the future coach. She can voice her opinion all she wants but having any tangible influence isn't necessary or valid imho. We need a break and a totally new direction and approach. Not more of the same.

 

[ScarletteK80]

When she does go I do not want her having a say in the future coach. She can voice her opinion all she wants but having any tangible influence isn't necessary or valid imho. We need a break and a totally new direction and approach. Not more of the same.

Too bad that lesson wasn't learned a hundred years ago by MBB.

 

[ScarletteK80]

consider that CVS had Tyler Scaife one of our all time greats yet she only made one NCAA tourney in her 4 years...2 WNITs which would have been 3....Scaife played with 3 WNBA players...Laney, Copper, Hollivay...so the idea that the talent wasnt there is bs. It was mismanaged and totally underutilized.

I would not exactly say that Laney, Copper, and Hollivay are WNBA stalwarts. Look up their records. Hopefully Betnijah makes a team this year, Copper does ok without Cappie in Chicago, and Hollivay comes back from Korea.

 

[bac2therac]

but they all at one time were drafted right....they dont have to be stars...point is we had talent here that didnt acheive it based on wins and losses...two years ago was prime example, no reason that team should have missed the tourney

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

Too bad that lesson wasn't learned a hundred years ago by MBB.

Not sure I understand your point? Wenzel, bannon,waters, hill,rice,jordan ...Lots of different directions...which put together formed a circle lol.

 

[e5fdny]

Not well thought of in the Shore area. She should be dominating one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country, especially one in her own backyard.

There might be some of that and there might be some of ABR going on too.

I am not going to blame that on any coach in any sport here.

 

[kupuna133]

There might be some of that and there might be some of ABR going on too.

I am not going to blame that on any coach in any sport here.

As one of the more premiere coaches in the shore area has said. "the next time Stringer steps inside this school will be the first." Can't have that and expect support. I know how parochial the shore area can be but this is when perception becomes reality and this extends to the AAU programs as well.

 

[RU1993]

Can't go - Extension Happy Hobbs made sure of that.

she will get her 1,000 next year as a Rutgers coach, and then she can get bought out and we move on to a better coach

 

[RUMBA-JK]

Though I'm mad about the way this season ended and snubbing the WNIT as well, Hobbs made the right choice and I feel CVS should be the RUWBB HC next year.
But Hobbs must be ready to replace Vivian if the team doesn't reach the NCAA Tourney next year, for the third year in row. .
Either with the carrot retire as( Coach Emeritus) and have a say in replacement or be pushed out the door and wait for a retirement ceremony along with not having a voice in who takes over.

Precisely! - in the real world - where Hobbs has to operate - he had really only limited choices - you don't kick a HOF coach to the curb - especially when they are rounding the last turn and closing in on the finish line - and the 1,000 win mark... and you certainly don't do it at a school where notable modern day milestones are virtually non-existent .

Sure, a whole bunch of really sound logical reasons to make a change could be written up in a long list - but go ahead and act on that now? Fire Stringer & kick her out the door? All of the "sports experts" in the media who might actually agree with items on the list - would whip around and turn on Rutgers in a nano-second - and they would be shrieking "Look at the latest blunder from Rutgers ... struggling programs right and left - and they fire a Hall of Fame Coach this close to winning her 1,000th game?" Rutgers would not get any 'benefit-of-the-doubt' or balanced assessment - Rutgers would once again just be a giant pinata which would get whacked mercilessly by the media.

..... and the the second wave of crap would come when - inevitably - some other program would pick up CVS for a season - she gets the inevitable "1000" - somewhere else - and it is all over the media - with a constant reference to the "inexplicable & disrespectful" dismissal by Rutgers .