So Far

[zebnatto]

We have won all the games we were supposed to, lost those we were expected to. Thfre have been some not so impressive wins over weak competition as well as solid ones and no games against "top 20" (loosely) teams. Som from my angle, we're a little ahead of the game.

Some individual players' grades (relative to wish and expectation):

Corey: B
DeShawn: B
Mike: B
Geo: A
Issa: B+
Eugene: A
Mamadou: B+
Candida: C+
Shaq: B (so limited physically)
Souf: D

Luke: would like to see him get mid-game minutes if we are blowing out one of our next few opponents;
Jake: would like to see him get a chance to outplay Souf
Matt: WTF?

 

[whofrewdatmataRU13]

nice

 

[Degaz-RU]

Grades for many of the players are too high IMO.

Sanders - B- (too many games in which he shoots horribly and turns the ball over)

Baker - A (has played way beyond anybody’s expectations)

Williams - C (still the tough scrapper we’ve come to know and love, but three point shooting has been bad)

Thiam - B- (disappears too often on offense, but can definitely see improvement here, especially defense and rebounding, and is getting better with threes)

Freeman - C+ (had hoped his mid range game would have improved, but it really hasn’t much. He’s still a great rebounder, but he’s often too out of control on offense and turns the ball over too much)

Omoruyi- A (wow, just wow, has he improved every facet of his game, especially his post offense)

Doucoure - B- (has shown flashes, but too much foul trouble has hampered him)

Doorson - C (still seems limited, and he’s off balance when rebounding)

Sa - C- (I expected more from him, though the past two games are promising)

Souf - F (has been mostly a liability, and this is mostly against cupcakes. Big disappointment here).

 

[jellyman]

The original poster gave grades relative to wishes and expectation ... not absolute.

On that basis, Thiam is a B or a B+, not a B- .

Think about these facts:

1) Thiam's FG% is 46%+ - 2nd best on the team, to Omoruyi's 50%.

2) Thiam's 3-point FG% is 37.8%, best on the team - by a decent margin (Baker is at 32%).

3) Though a small sample size, Thiam is 8-9 FT - best on the team.

4) Thiam is averaging 5.5 rebounds per game, 2nd best on the team - to Freeman's 8.2 rpg.

5) Thiam has played the 3rd most minutes on the team, so far (to Sanders and Baker) ... he does have only 5 assists (very low) - but also only 6 turnovers ... also very low.

6) Thiam is averaging 8 points and 5.5 rebounds per game ... not a star, but a VAST improvement over last year, especially with that sharply improved FG, 3-point FG and FT percentages.

Plus, not "facts," but still obvious: He is a much improved defensive player, with obviously improved defensive intensity.

How that is not a solid B, or a B+ versus expectations, or wishes, I do not know.

I believe that by next season, his Junior season, Thiam will average 11-12 ppg, with more FT, and additional mid-range attempts and dribble drives and pull-ups .. you have already seen the start of that the last 2 games. Senior year? Depends who else is getting shots. It could be similar, or even better.

 

[Hamilton's Cannon]

Not bad although I would change Issa’s grade to a B-/C+. Not killing it at the 3, seems to have to think too much instead of reacting, still hesitant to shoot, telegraphs passes, and still terribly weak. Good kid, tries, and does contribute but just doesn’t seem to have taken a step forward from last year.

 

[zebnatto]

Interesting. I think we're all basically seeing the same stuff.

I was factoring in stuff I don't think a player can really control. So my "D" for Souf might really be an "F," except that he is not capable of playing better, imo.

Doucoure I think deserves the "B" though I wish I could say that I've seen improvement. Freeman, for all he gives, frustrates me--he has to learn to kick the ball back out even if it's to repost and get it back. Too often he gets it and tries to do too much, sometimes much too much. Shaq I think is just really hobbled and is giving what he's got. Candida is a bit disappointing--I want more passion and LEARN TO JAM THE BALL! Mike gives us every ounce--if the shots don't fall, well . . .

 

[Degaz-RU]

The original poster gave grades relative to wishes and expectation ... not absolute.

On that basis, Thiam is a B or a B+, not a B- .

Think about these facts:

1) Thiam's FG% is 46%+ - 2nd best on the team, to Omoruyi's 50%.

2) Thiam's 3-point FG% is 37.8%, best on the team - by a decent margin (Baker is at 32%).

3) Though a small sample size, Thiam is 8-9 FT - best on the team.

4) Thiam is averaging 5.5 rebounds per game, 2nd best on the team - to Freeman's 8.2 rpg.

5) Thiam has played the 3rd most minutes on the team, so far (to Sanders and Baker) ... he does have only 5 assists (very low) - but also only 6 turnovers ... also very low.

6) Thiam is averaging 8 points and 5.5 rebounds per game ... not a star, but a VAST improvement over last year, especially with that sharply improved FG, 3-point FG and FT percentages.

Plus, not "facts," but still obvious: He is a much improved defensive player, with obviously improved defensive intensity.

How that is not a solid B, or a B+ versus expectations, or wishes, I do not know.

I believe that by next season, his Junior season, Thiam will average 11-12 ppg, with more FT, and additional mid-range attempts and dribble drives and pull-ups .. you have already seen the start of that the last 2 games. Senior year? Depends who else is getting shots. It could be similar, or even better.

Jelly, I understood the OP’s grades were relative and not absolute. My grades are also based on expectations and hopes.

You make good points about Thiam, and I could be convinced to change my B- to a B.

That said, those stats don’t change my opinion that Thiam disappears on offense too much. I guess I would have thought his mid range game would be further along so that he isn’t limited to hoping he can get an open look from the perimeter. We have seen a few flashes of him putting the ball on the floor, but not enough. And I’m still not convinced his improvements are going to translate to playing B1G opponents.

But, we’re grading based on games played to date, and in that respect, I would agree that Thiam has made enough improvements to grade out as at least a “relative” B or B+.

 

[Arizona Knight]

Not bad although I would change Issa’s grade to a B-/C+. Not killing it at the 3, seems to have to think too much instead of reacting, still hesitant to shoot, telegraphs passes, and still terribly weak. Good kid, tries, and does contribute but just doesn’t seem to have taken a step forward from last year.

Thiam hasn’t taken a step forward from last year? I have no idea how you can come to that conclusion. He’s better in literally every metric possible.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

Not bad although I would change Issa’s grade to a B-/C+. Not killing it at the 3, seems to have to think too much instead of reacting, still hesitant to shoot, telegraphs passes, and still terribly weak. Good kid, tries, and does contribute but just doesn’t seem to have taken a step forward from last year.

I can’t fathom how you could come to that conclusion. Big difference from last year to this year

 

[BoxStater]

Not bad although I would change Issa’s grade to a B-/C+. Not killing it at the 3, seems to have to think too much instead of reacting, still hesitant to shoot, telegraphs passes, and still terribly weak. Good kid, tries, and does contribute but just doesn’t seem to have taken a step forward from last year.

Doesn’t seem to have taken a step forward from last year but he’s currently the 2nd leading rebounder on the team, just less than 3 behind Freeman?!

 

[jellyman]

Jelly, I understood the OP’s grades were relative and not absolute. My grades are also based on expectations and hopes.

You make good points about Thiam, and I could be convinced to change my B- to a B.

That said, those stats don’t change my opinion that Thiam disappears on offense too much. I guess I would have thought his mid range game would be further along so that he isn’t limited to hoping he can get an open look from the perimeter. We have seen a few flashes of him putting the ball on the floor, but not enough. And I’m still not convinced his improvements are going to translate to playing B1G opponents.

But, we’re grading based on games played to date, and in that respect, I would agree that Thiam has made enough improvements to grade out as at least a “relative” B or B+.

Fair enough - we really do not disagree all that much - surely, Thiam DOES disappear on offense. A more aggressive and confident Thiam might really help RU's offense ... assuming he could maintain his shooting percentages while being more aggressive. One reason I would like to see Thiam be more aggressive driving on offense is that I would like to see him get more FT attempts ... he may be RU's best FT shooter - surely one of RU's top 2-3 FT shooters (9 FT is too small a sample size to truly measure). He might not be ready, developmentally (physically or experience-wise), to make that step THIS year - especially against Big Ten comeptition ... But I think ... I really believe ... he might get there NEXT year. Which will give RU a really different - and more dangerous - offensive look.

 

[soundcrib]

Grades for many of the players are too high IMO.

Sanders - B- (too many games in which he shoots horribly and turns the ball over)

Baker - A (has played way beyond anybody’s expectations)

Williams - C (still the tough scrapper we’ve come to know and love, but three point shooting has been bad)

Thiam - B- (disappears too often on offense, but can definitely see improvement here, especially defense and rebounding, and is getting better with threes)

Freeman - C+ (had hoped his mid range game would have improved, but it really hasn’t much. He’s still a great rebounder, but he’s often too out of control on offense and turns the ball over too much)

Omoruyi- A (wow, just wow, has he improved every facet of his game, especially his post offense)

Doucoure - B- (has shown flashes, but too much foul trouble has hampered him)

Doorson - C (still seems limited, and he’s off balance when rebounding)

Sa - C- (I expected more from him, though the past two games are promising)

Souf - F (has been mostly a liability, and this is mostly against cupcakes. Big disappointment here).

I’d give Corey a C, Geo a B. IMO, the only player deserving an A is Eugene.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Agree with a lot of what Jelly says normally. Almost everything.

Thiam we are not on the same page.

Thiam has been a disappointment. We all knew what he needed to do in the offseason and he didn't make the adjustment. He is a willing defender, but doesn't have the lateral quickness. No doubt his length can be an asset on the defensive end.

 

[zebnatto]

Geo was considered to be barely a major recruit--more mid-major. He has come in and over the first part of the season has been the team's best player. We didn't recruit Pete Maravich.

 

[higgins3]

Agree with a lot of what Jelly says normally. Almost everything.

Thiam we are not on the same page.

Thiam has been a disappointment. We all knew what he needed to do in the offseason and he didn't make the adjustment. He is a willing defender, but doesn't have the lateral quickness. No doubt his length can be an asset on the defensive end.

Thiam was probably the most interesting recruit Rutgers has had in five to ten years. He was not supposed to make a difference off the bat, and people knew that with his frame, it was going to take time. Nonetheless, he has become a better rebounder, and will have steady progress as his time continues on the banks. The length of his limbs make you want to tread slowly, and add bulk to his frame in the right manner. As that happens, he will only continue to get better.

He makes his free throws, does not turn the ball over, and gives great effort. He will only get better. I have met the kid and I am not sure there is a kid on the roster that is easier to root for. Extremely humble, and working really hard to get better.

Keep working,35.

 

[MadRU]

What are the grades based against? Only against RU players?

Because if using other teams, Myles Bridges from MSU is an "A", lets just say he is far away more talented.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

No offense, but how could Thiam turn the ball over?

In 10 non CCNY games
273 minutes
4 free throws
16 2 point shots
5 assists

kenpom classifies him as "nearly invisible"

 

[BoxStater]

No offense, but how could Thiam turn the ball over?

In 10 non CCNY games
273 minutes
4 free throws
16 2 point shots
5 assists

kenpom classifies him as "nearly invisible"

you left out the 17 3 point shots he’s made. The most on the team.

But here’s the thing, a 6’10 mobile wing/guard will have a lot of things not caught up in analytics. And he’s expanded his game as the season develops he will be maybe not the best but the most valuable player on the team by his senior year because of his length.

 

[higgins3]

No offense, but how could Thiam turn the ball over?

In 10 non CCNY games
273 minutes
4 free throws
16 2 point shots
5 assists

kenpom classifies him as "nearly invisible"

? Turnovers are turnovers.

 

[kcg88]

No offense, but how could Thiam turn the ball over?

In 10 non CCNY games
273 minutes
4 free throws
16 2 point shots
5 assists

kenpom classifies him as "nearly invisible"

So he's terrible but also not involved enough in the offense? Reminds me of this restaurant I go to, the food stinks and the portions are so tiny.

Thiam being more involved in the offense would be a good thing. To be sure, that's on him to be more aggressive but also on other players to get him the ball for good looks. There's nothing wrong with having a player who doesn't score inside the arc, it can be quite valuable if he understands his role and the coaches and the rest of the team use him accordingly.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Playing 25 minutes we need Issa taking a bare minimum 6 3 point shots per game.

We are rated 230th in the nation in offensive efficiency. Issa is playing the spot on the floor where, on average, the most offense comes from.

 

[zebnatto]

What are the grades based against? Only against RU players?

Because if using other teams, Myles Bridges from MSU is an "A", lets just say he is far away more talented.

I (OP) think that if someone has met your preseason expectations, that guy gets a B-/C+; if the guy meets (or even exceeds) your hopes, he gets a B+/A.Did anyone think we were recruiting, in Geo's case, a freshman who would be equal to Myles Bridges?

 

[MadRU]

I (OP) think that if someone has met your preseason expectations, that guy gets a B-/C+; if the guy meets (or even exceeds) your hopes, he gets a B+/A.Did anyone think we were recruiting, in Geo's case, a freshman who would be equal to Myles Bridges?

Ok, wasn't sure of the criteria. And no I didn't think anyone we recruited was Bridges.

Based on expectations then I give the following:

Geo - A-
Eugene - B+
Duke - B
Thiam - B-

Those players have exceeded my expectations.

 

[BoxStater]

Playing 25 minutes we need Issa taking a bare minimum 6 3 point shots per game.

We are rated 230th in the nation in offensive efficiency. Issa is playing the spot on the floor where, on average, the most offense comes from.

But I think many on the board think offensive effecency is composed purely taking shots per se, but for example if you watch the MSU tape and compare how they set screens compared to Rutgers its a big difference. They just didn’t have Miles Bridges go outs create his own shots & he’s one of the best offensive players in the country.

 

[higgins3]

Playing 25 minutes we need Issa taking a bare minimum 6 3 point shots per game.

We are rated 230th in the nation in offensive efficiency. Issa is playing the spot on the floor where, on average, the most offense comes from.

There are hundreds of players in the country that turn the ball over 3-4 times per game, and record less than 1 assist. Lol. we always agreed last year that ball movement was important. Now that's Thiams fault?

 

[TobyTyler1]

Same page as Degaz here spot on