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- Thread starter ScarletDave
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How many shots did he get in his 24 minutes compared to the Ron’s and the jacobs? How good were everyone else’s turn around shots/ air balls from the three. As consistent as Montez has been for us why is there such a magnifying glass on his mistakes? I guess everyone just knows Harper and geo when we are in blow out wins and they are knocking down threes. But what about when the games are close? who carries the weight when it’s tough? I’m pretty sure if you were on a team that didn’t appreciate your talent you would get frustrated and force up shots too! He gets no where near as many shots as he should get.
Every team in this league has a viable power forward and back up center to replace their starters.
We don’t at this time.
We don’t at this time.
Do you not know who was the highest recruit in that class? Who wasn’t highly recruited ? Mathis had offers from everywhere...know your facts.
before Pike started rotating all the guards, Look at the minutes now all of sudden we can’t compete. So you’re saying pike is coaching all of this elite talent at the best of his abilities? You’re blind. And it’s so sad that you believe pike is doing good...why can’t he see that since he’s broaden the line up we lose by double digits? But you’re saying pike can coach talent? Is this not our best team
In how long? Explain how good pike is doing sir please
Go on......other than Mathis, please expand please smarty....
And if Mathis is you’re best example who was knocking down his door? Blue bloods? Maryland???? There’s a reason. I love Tez, the reason he wasn’t a top tier recruit was his height and shooting ability...he was a tweener and slasher. Tez started playing great towards the end of last year year once his 3 started going down. My point was to dispel the notion that players don’t improve under Pike.
Did you think Pike had “elite talent” coming into last year? Yes or no? Other than Cliff who hasn’t really played much, it’s the same guys. He helped develop players to be an NCAA team and a team that every team in the B1G, players and coaches, knows is a force.
I don’t like playing too many guys. But we know Pikes MO is playing 9-10 guys. It’s good (keeps more guys on the team involved and let’s kids develop) and it’s bad (minutes too thin no continuity). But let’s talk about the recent “expansion”. Didn’t have the OOC luxury this year to get the younger guys in, so he played a short bench when B1G started. Cliff gets hurt. Geo gets hurt. Young got hurt. Harper got hurt. Mag hurt. Yes? Johnson gets into foul trouble. Mulcahy? Love him but plays like a turtle, too slow. Can’t play the Duke...gets toasted, forced to give Reiber some minutes. McConnnell? Had to get the rust off, took a few games. The kids were playing like sh$t today he put Palmwvist in for a few minutes.
Its the same kids as last year but too many press readings, too much one on ones, lack of D, too many stupid fouls, and shooting has gone cold. Geo has disappeared, Harper and Young have gone cold, and Mathis is sporadic. Same coach , basically same players / leaders that got them to NCAA and #12 ranking. What do you suggest Pikel do?
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Honestly, I wish half the posters in this thread would just stop watching, Pike and the team don't deserve this nonsense. We're MSU fans calling for Izzos head after their bad start.
It's obvious that
It's obvious that
Illini fan here with an outsider perspective:
I've watched RU from afar a few times this season and I've noticed some things. Offensively your guys can sometimes go shot hunting and get chuck happy. When this happens it takes other players out of their rhythm and offense becomes stagnant as it turns into everybody watching the chucker.
If I were Pike I would want to play through RH Jr. When he is on he looks like a pro. Bardo had a good line last season when he said that Ayo needed to unpack his bags. I think the same could be said to RH Jr. Like RH Jr. Ayo had pro aspirations but needed to focus on the here and now. I would also look to get MJ involved early. He's kind of like Kofi. If Kofi doesn't get the ball early he tends to lose focus and just kind of exist. I think JY could benefit from working on his shot selection. He's got such a sweet stroke from the midrange elbows that I'm surprised when it doesn't go in.
Defensively I think you guys are fine. Sometimes when guys aren't getting their shots and/or standing around on offense it can carry over and players become disinterested defensively.
I've watched RU from afar a few times this season and I've noticed some things. Offensively your guys can sometimes go shot hunting and get chuck happy. When this happens it takes other players out of their rhythm and offense becomes stagnant as it turns into everybody watching the chucker.
If I were Pike I would want to play through RH Jr. When he is on he looks like a pro. Bardo had a good line last season when he said that Ayo needed to unpack his bags. I think the same could be said to RH Jr. Like RH Jr. Ayo had pro aspirations but needed to focus on the here and now. I would also look to get MJ involved early. He's kind of like Kofi. If Kofi doesn't get the ball early he tends to lose focus and just kind of exist. I think JY could benefit from working on his shot selection. He's got such a sweet stroke from the midrange elbows that I'm surprised when it doesn't go in.
Defensively I think you guys are fine. Sometimes when guys aren't getting their shots and/or standing around on offense it can carry over and players become disinterested defensively.
I guess we should just quit the season based on the gloomy comments above.....LOL!!
Two weeks ago everyone was talking about being a 4 seed in NCAA instead of finally just getting in the tournament.
We unfortunately are now showing that we have been a little over rated this year. The positives so far are that we have some good wins, our NET is still good, and the Bullseye on our back has been removed and we can become the hunter and not the hunted for a little bit.
Parcells always said "you are only as good as the record says you are" which may correlate to us being a middle of the pack team but at least we are not a bottom dwellar like in years past.........that is still improvement as disappointing as that may sound.
Go RU!!
Two weeks ago everyone was talking about being a 4 seed in NCAA instead of finally just getting in the tournament.
We unfortunately are now showing that we have been a little over rated this year. The positives so far are that we have some good wins, our NET is still good, and the Bullseye on our back has been removed and we can become the hunter and not the hunted for a little bit.
Parcells always said "you are only as good as the record says you are" which may correlate to us being a middle of the pack team but at least we are not a bottom dwellar like in years past.........that is still improvement as disappointing as that may sound.
Go RU!!
The team leaders Geo and Harper are not leading the team in any way right now. They look sullen and uninspired. It may have to do with their injuries. Whatever it is, they're not setting a positive tone for the team and the rest of the team mirrors their energy level.
They need to get healthy and get their heads out of their asses and lead the team with the same intensity they did last year.
They need to get healthy and get their heads out of their asses and lead the team with the same intensity they did last year.
People trying to point to Calebs return as the start of the collapse are missing it. It wasn’t his return (3 games ago), it was Cliff’s injury (5 games ago). We lost 4 of 5 since then. Caleb was a fighter amongst cowards today along with Paul and JY
Jacob Young Post Game Quote- “we’ve got to trust one another “ when a player says this there is clear chemistry problems going on. Further evidence is their poor body language the last two games. No one likes losing but this team is old enough to play on when things are not going their way. They don’t look like they’re having fun out there anymore
Yep and Pike’s answer to the question about emptying the bench in the first 2 mins tells you all you need to know ..
“our guys are tired, it’s a long season, we have to rotate our guys so guys don’t get too tired”
clearly he was being sarcastic and that was a message to his guys, saying that the starters are complaining of being “tired”, or just not showing energy at all. Not good when the coach calls out his players passive aggressively like this. I think the honeymoon is over. Didn’t even get an NCAA bid out of it
Maybe we aren't
Why are you critizing the players? This is not the the board to exposed your peronnel vendettas towards any of the players.
Omg you people giving up on the team, Pikiel and the NCAA tournament are unbelievable. They'll figure it out. They've already played at a very high level this year. They'll get back there.
Problem is roster. we are missing a legitimate power forward who can also cover Myles when he sits. Too much reliance on a cliff who needs a year before he can compete in The Big. Pike should have added a grad transfer as he has in the past.
Agree. Its crazy that there's negative focus on Caleb. He was the only spark today. The guy is playing with intensity. In fact I think if we improve, his addition will be the spark.
The chemistry issues I’m seeing seem more aligned with Geo’s return than anything else. Which is not to say it’s Geo’s or anybody else’s fault. It just means that the players all had very clear roles prior with Harper being the go-to guy. Now we have multiple go-to guys and it seems to be causing a lack of cohesion on court.
Multiple go-to guys sounds good on paper. But it‘s possible that Geo and Ron are unintentionally cramping each other’s energy on the court. It’s a subtle effect, but I think when you combine it with recent injuries, it’s pervasive (affecting the whole team).
But there are tactical problems too, that arose in the MSU game. Izzo had the best game plan to stop us of the season, one that highlighted our weaknesses for all to see. OSU played much better D against us today, than prior to our game with MSU, borrowing from what they saw from Izzo’s game plan. No doubt the next coach will do the same. They all will until we adapt and correct the weaknesses being exploited.
Unfortunately, that adaptation/correction is a lot easier said than done. I have no doubt Pike sees it and is trying to fix it. He’s also dealing with some players who are moping around, which isn’t helping.
Multiple go-to guys sounds good on paper. But it‘s possible that Geo and Ron are unintentionally cramping each other’s energy on the court. It’s a subtle effect, but I think when you combine it with recent injuries, it’s pervasive (affecting the whole team).
But there are tactical problems too, that arose in the MSU game. Izzo had the best game plan to stop us of the season, one that highlighted our weaknesses for all to see. OSU played much better D against us today, than prior to our game with MSU, borrowing from what they saw from Izzo’s game plan. No doubt the next coach will do the same. They all will until we adapt and correct the weaknesses being exploited.
Unfortunately, that adaptation/correction is a lot easier said than done. I have no doubt Pike sees it and is trying to fix it. He’s also dealing with some players who are moping around, which isn’t helping.
Read a few responses.....and I stopped
the something wrong are some of our fans
the something wrong are some of our fans
Nothing is “cramping Ron’s style.” He hasn’t been attacking off the dribble or getting down the floor in transition. His efficiency has gone down since he hurt his ankle, because he’s playing on an injured ankle.
Nah. He was already off before he hurt his ankle. You can’t see it, but Pike sees it and is clearly trying different stuff lineup-wise to regain the chemistry we had earlier in the season.
Dont want to make this political but if you check out our leaders Twitter accounts, perhaps their focus is elsewhere.
Pike needs to work the refs more. If he is not the screamer type he should at least be a whiner, working up to a crescendo as things get worse. 6 - 3 fouls "You're calling us for two fouls to one!" 7-3 " Are you kidding me, on us again? 8-3 "Now this is getting ridiculous, what next, a three to one ratio? Maybe he gets in their head and one or more of 9, 10 or 11 does not get called, or a few more get called on our opponents. He also needs to show some anger when Youngs gets clocked, Palmquist gets thrown down and Mulcahy gets elbowed. One because it shows the kids he cares about them and maybe it moves the refs to go flagrant. I personally would have gone wild the way Jacob was hammered, he could have broken his neck. Maybe Duke needs to take on a bit of an enforcer role with a hard foul now and again.
If Ron and Geo are still not 100% give more minutes to Caleb and Paul, they played hard and offer some length. Montez needs to learn to dish if he drives into traffic and guys can help him by moving to a position with an open passing lane.
If Ron and Geo are still not 100% give more minutes to Caleb and Paul, they played hard and offer some length. Montez needs to learn to dish if he drives into traffic and guys can help him by moving to a position with an open passing lane.
Statistically speaking, 28 to 20 is a roughly 28% drop off at a time when Geo was getting more minutes with each new game. Not sure that does much to make your point.
In any event, quoting Ron's scoring stats does nothing to contradict my hypothesis that there is a team chemistry problem and that it might be due to having two awesome go-to guys who, like most go-to guys, thrive on having the ball a lot.
Also, I said "energy" not "style" (which you mentioned in your earlier post). I don't care about anybody's style.
Energy can be reflected in points scored. But it shows up at least as much, if not more, in rebounds and defense. And while we've had some good moments of energy (first half of OSU, and at Iowa), the energy levels have unarguably been dropping.
Having had tons of ankle injuries, I'd be the first to agree that ankle injuries can take a player right off his game. We become unconsciously sensitive to pushing off hard on the bad ankle for while. It can interfere with focus which is a killer for stuff like 3 point shooting. And if it's painful, it becomes tough to motivate to run sometimes - again I know this firsthand.
I'm not pointing fingers here. I'm not blaming anybody. It's not because of anybody doing anything wrong. But I think it's obvious there is a team chemistry issue (maybe it's not due to having two go-to guys, but something is causing it). And I don't think players recovering from injuries, while impactful and contributory for sure, is the root cause of the chemistry problem.
I'm pretty sure Pike sees it, it's pretty obvious. I think he's trying to mix up lineups trying to solve it.
Of course not. But he is a bad comparison for RU fans being upset with Pike. Izzo has seven or eight final four appearances, more B1G regular season championships and more B1G Tournament championships than I can remember. Izzo has built up plenty of collateral with the MSU fan base.
However, on the premium MSU board there was a vocal minority posting things like Izzo is terrible at closing out close games and suggesting that he's getting soft on players.
I would be surprised if there is bad chemistry on the team, as is being debated in threads. You never know how a team is going to react when they have a number next to their team's name. Instead of the hunter you are suddenly the hunted. Then you lose a game, hit some adversity with injuries etc., in an unforgiving league with lots of good teams and you can have a losing streak. I'm just talking about in a normal season.
Mix in that the kids are going through a lot this season. Other than their parents and coaches I don't think anyody will ever appreciate what these kids are going through/dealing with just to play the game they love.
Agreed...but everyone is going through it. So in the context of the B1G ....we went from worst to quasi first (for a moment) to falling like a rock again into the abyss.
It's the damn RU Screw!!!
MO
Everyone is going through it but not everyone is getting the same support, not everyone is in NJ where I hear was hit really hard.
There is no manual or blueprint for how to get through what the players, or any of us are going through.
Beat Penn State and good things will follow. Take it 1 game at a time and should we win, a significant amount of pressure will disappear and confidence will be restored. I’m a believer in all things even out throughout the course of a season and barring injuries etc - a win Thursday night will do wonders for the psyche of the team.
That I don't buy this. They are missing even wide open shots that they were making against every team up to and including Iowa.
If we make 2 more of those shots we win the Wisc. this game without having to foul at the end.
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I think that’s insane. Foul calls have nothing to do with how aggressively a coach works the Refs. In fact, it could backfire if the refs think that a coach whines too much. Chastising Pike is a backhanded way of complaining about the refs. You have a very good coach and this criticism is completely unfair.
More like when Baker and McConnel came back, plus Harper and Mathis have completely fallen apart.
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