INSTANT RECAP: St. John's outlasts No. 25 Rutgers in scrimmage
St. John's defeated Rutgers 91-85 in a highly contested scrimmage.
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Basketball St. John's outlasts No. 25 Rutgers Basketball in scrimmage
- Thread starter Tango Two
- Start date
Yeah, I know this exercise means little ... except I enjoy speculating and guessing. I also know that based on Pikiell's recent comments on the exhibition, the exhibition itself may not mean much (he specifically stated that the staff was not doing individual opposition player tendency analysis or ST. John's game prep, but instead was focusing mainly on the RU tesam, and will try various line-ups during the game to get a feel for how different groups of 5 players work together on the court).
Even so ... fun, fun, fun ... this is the very early start to understanding RU's pieces.
So, I will give a try at considering how certain on-court match-ups might work. Some of the articles pre-game are talking about the match-uop between Harper and Richmond. That is what sparked my interest in putting together this post. In particular, I do not think RU will have Harper on Richmond as much as some might think - and nor should they ... not in a real game at least (not sure this qualifies as a real game).
So ... presuming the following starting line-ups:
RU: Harper, Williams, Bailey, Martini, Ogbole
St. Johns: Deivon Smith (though he has been hurt and not start or even play), Richmond, RJ Luis, Aaron Scott, Ejiofor or Iwuchkwa
Richmond is a PG - at 6'6" and strong ... but Smith was Utah's starting PG, and a good one also (only 6'0" or 6'1", but averaged 13+ ppg, 6 reb/g and 7 ass/g).
I actually would have BAILEY cover Richmond, to start ... here is my theory on that:
1) 2 years ago, RU smothered Richmond, with McConnell smothering him one on one without help ... Now Bailey is no McConnell defensively, I know. But McConnell was 6'7" ... Richmond is 6'6" and strong ... Bailey at 6'8" to 6'9" and extremely athletic, can play a half-step off Richmond and still give him real problems with his shot. Richmond is most dangerous backing down or shooting over smaller guards, and/or forcing double-teams on him because of getting position on smaller players, or beating slower players - and then dishing off ... and Richmond then passes to other now open players (kind of like Pickett of PSU of 2 years ago). If you can defend Richmond one on one, without much help defense, it significantly reduces his effectiveness - and his ability to make his teammates better. I feel that Williams cannot cover Richmond without help - though Williams is a good defender, better than average, he is SMALLER than Richmond - and he would need help defense to keep Richmond from backing him down.
2) To defend Richmond, who will surely be given a lot of high screens, in addition to potential switching, defenders MIGHT be able to go UNDER the screens - Richmond does NOT take a lot of 3's - and last season shot just 27% from 3 in only 63 attempts - the year before he shot 44% but in only 36 attempts.
3) I like having a 6'8" to 6'(" super athletic guy on Richmond, which allows for better, more favorable other defensive match-ups: the RU centers on the St. John's centers (neither the St. John's centers should be expected to be stars), Martini on RJ Luis (not a 3-point shooter, a 6'7" PF, rebounder type, mid-range and to the rim type), Harper and Williams sharing duties on the transfer WF Aaron Scott (a 6'7" transfer shooter from North Texas) and either Wilcher (6'4" PG returning from last season - averaged 11 mpg last year), or the transfer PG Smith (if healthy), a 6'1" PG - both Harper and Williams ought to be able defend either one of those 2.
We'll see, of course, how that plays out. Just my 2 cents ... and my pure speculation. And, in the end, just an exhibition, with another 3 full weeks of practice before the 1st real game.
P.S. If the reports are true about the "secret" (meaning private) scrimmage with Towson St., (nearly 50 points between Harper and Bailey - 30 for Bailey), I think that might just be a snapshot in some ways: I have long felt that Bailey is the type of player who can and will have games where he scores 25+ points on 10-14 or 10-16 from the field ... but he may ALSO have games where his shot is OFF ... but he keep shooting, meaning single-digit scoring games when he goes 2-12, or 3-13 or so. The more consistent Bailey can become, the better for both himself and the team (because for him "consistency" means fewer games with tough shot selection that miss ... in other words, "consistency" for Bailey means raising his FLOOR, not reducing his CEILING).
Even so ... fun, fun, fun ... this is the very early start to understanding RU's pieces.
So, I will give a try at considering how certain on-court match-ups might work. Some of the articles pre-game are talking about the match-uop between Harper and Richmond. That is what sparked my interest in putting together this post. In particular, I do not think RU will have Harper on Richmond as much as some might think - and nor should they ... not in a real game at least (not sure this qualifies as a real game).
So ... presuming the following starting line-ups:
RU: Harper, Williams, Bailey, Martini, Ogbole
St. Johns: Deivon Smith (though he has been hurt and not start or even play), Richmond, RJ Luis, Aaron Scott, Ejiofor or Iwuchkwa
Richmond is a PG - at 6'6" and strong ... but Smith was Utah's starting PG, and a good one also (only 6'0" or 6'1", but averaged 13+ ppg, 6 reb/g and 7 ass/g).
I actually would have BAILEY cover Richmond, to start ... here is my theory on that:
1) 2 years ago, RU smothered Richmond, with McConnell smothering him one on one without help ... Now Bailey is no McConnell defensively, I know. But McConnell was 6'7" ... Richmond is 6'6" and strong ... Bailey at 6'8" to 6'9" and extremely athletic, can play a half-step off Richmond and still give him real problems with his shot. Richmond is most dangerous backing down or shooting over smaller guards, and/or forcing double-teams on him because of getting position on smaller players, or beating slower players - and then dishing off ... and Richmond then passes to other now open players (kind of like Pickett of PSU of 2 years ago). If you can defend Richmond one on one, without much help defense, it significantly reduces his effectiveness - and his ability to make his teammates better. I feel that Williams cannot cover Richmond without help - though Williams is a good defender, better than average, he is SMALLER than Richmond - and he would need help defense to keep Richmond from backing him down.
2) To defend Richmond, who will surely be given a lot of high screens, in addition to potential switching, defenders MIGHT be able to go UNDER the screens - Richmond does NOT take a lot of 3's - and last season shot just 27% from 3 in only 63 attempts - the year before he shot 44% but in only 36 attempts.
3) I like having a 6'8" to 6'(" super athletic guy on Richmond, which allows for better, more favorable other defensive match-ups: the RU centers on the St. John's centers (neither the St. John's centers should be expected to be stars), Martini on RJ Luis (not a 3-point shooter, a 6'7" PF, rebounder type, mid-range and to the rim type), Harper and Williams sharing duties on the transfer WF Aaron Scott (a 6'7" transfer shooter from North Texas) and either Wilcher (6'4" PG returning from last season - averaged 11 mpg last year), or the transfer PG Smith (if healthy), a 6'1" PG - both Harper and Williams ought to be able defend either one of those 2.
We'll see, of course, how that plays out. Just my 2 cents ... and my pure speculation. And, in the end, just an exhibition, with another 3 full weeks of practice before the 1st real game.
P.S. If the reports are true about the "secret" (meaning private) scrimmage with Towson St., (nearly 50 points between Harper and Bailey - 30 for Bailey), I think that might just be a snapshot in some ways: I have long felt that Bailey is the type of player who can and will have games where he scores 25+ points on 10-14 or 10-16 from the field ... but he may ALSO have games where his shot is OFF ... but he keep shooting, meaning single-digit scoring games when he goes 2-12, or 3-13 or so. The more consistent Bailey can become, the better for both himself and the team (because for him "consistency" means fewer games with tough shot selection that miss ... in other words, "consistency" for Bailey means raising his FLOOR, not reducing his CEILING).
Rick Pitino eager ‘to see where we’re at’ when St. John’s faces Rutgers in exhibition
St. John’s wont’ get a taste of a true road environment on Thursday night when it visits Rutgers for an exhibition game at Jersey Mike’s Arena, which will be televised by the Big Ten Ne…
nypost.com
No. 25 Rutgers men's basketball readies for the 2024-25 season with an exhibition game against St. John's, presented by Prudential.
lion, I admire your dedication in breaking down an exhibition game.
I don't know much about St. John's, but I'm not sure I want my primary wing scorer guarding SJU's top scorer (Richmond) who will have the ball in his hands a LOT. Not sure you want to wear down Ace like that. I don't mind if Ace guards him occasionally, but not as the primary defender.
Richmond is not an explosive type of player, but rather a deliberate guy who gets most of his points in the mid-range. I think JWill is well-suited to guard him despite giving up 2 inches. But I would put Dylan on him too, if only to give Dylan a "test" of his defensive abilities, plus Dylan is just as tall (or even slightly taller) and has a nice wingspan. This might also be a good time for Derkack to show off his defensive abilities in reserve.
I don't know much about St. John's, but I'm not sure I want my primary wing scorer guarding SJU's top scorer (Richmond) who will have the ball in his hands a LOT. Not sure you want to wear down Ace like that. I don't mind if Ace guards him occasionally, but not as the primary defender.
Richmond is not an explosive type of player, but rather a deliberate guy who gets most of his points in the mid-range. I think JWill is well-suited to guard him despite giving up 2 inches. But I would put Dylan on him too, if only to give Dylan a "test" of his defensive abilities, plus Dylan is just as tall (or even slightly taller) and has a nice wingspan. This might also be a good time for Derkack to show off his defensive abilities in reserve.
I agree. Ace shouldn’t cover Richmond. Rotate Williams and Harper vs Richmond. They will be best to match up there.
I get it.
But ... exhibitions are a good time to try different things. Richmond is really good ... and I do not think Williams can handle him, not without help ... and help means other St. John's players left open, where Richmond excels even more. Just my opinion.
Also, I would add: Why not have Bailey "test" his defensive ability also? And why would he be at risk being worn down more than Harper, defending Richmond?
In fact, the reason you provide - that Richmond is not explosive but more deliberate ... well, I know that, and his style ... and that is exactly why I would love to see Bailey be given a shot. Richmond will just back down Williams (bigger, stronger, taller), and without help defense, will just back him down, use his post moves and pull-up's and step back moves - and because Richmond is taller there will be very little Williams could do without help defense. Harper is taller and maybe stronger than Williams (not 100% sure about being stronger than Williams) - but the same height as Richmond - and somewhat similar style, physically and athletically. Bailey now ... not as physically strong as Richmond, but MUJCH more athletic, 2" to 3" taller, explosive leaper, long arms ... Richmond can back him down, but then what will Richmond do? Much tougher to shoot over a 6'9" Bailey than a 6'4" Williams or even a 6'6" Harper.
Just thought it would be an interesting experiment, and create better defensive match-ups more in RU's favor across the other Guard/Wing/PF positions.
P.S. In re the time spent on "analysis" of a useless exhibition game: For better or worse, I have the time, and the inclination. I do understand that until we actually begin to see some games, such analysis is really just mental masturbation - but for me, fun!
But ... exhibitions are a good time to try different things. Richmond is really good ... and I do not think Williams can handle him, not without help ... and help means other St. John's players left open, where Richmond excels even more. Just my opinion.
Also, I would add: Why not have Bailey "test" his defensive ability also? And why would he be at risk being worn down more than Harper, defending Richmond?
In fact, the reason you provide - that Richmond is not explosive but more deliberate ... well, I know that, and his style ... and that is exactly why I would love to see Bailey be given a shot. Richmond will just back down Williams (bigger, stronger, taller), and without help defense, will just back him down, use his post moves and pull-up's and step back moves - and because Richmond is taller there will be very little Williams could do without help defense. Harper is taller and maybe stronger than Williams (not 100% sure about being stronger than Williams) - but the same height as Richmond - and somewhat similar style, physically and athletically. Bailey now ... not as physically strong as Richmond, but MUJCH more athletic, 2" to 3" taller, explosive leaper, long arms ... Richmond can back him down, but then what will Richmond do? Much tougher to shoot over a 6'9" Bailey than a 6'4" Williams or even a 6'6" Harper.
Just thought it would be an interesting experiment, and create better defensive match-ups more in RU's favor across the other Guard/Wing/PF positions.
P.S. In re the time spent on "analysis" of a useless exhibition game: For better or worse, I have the time, and the inclination. I do understand that until we actually begin to see some games, such analysis is really just mental masturbation - but for me, fun!
A few thoughts rather than start a new thread:
I'm not thinking we'll "know the answers" to the below after one scrimmage but hope for enough to have us nodding, not shaking, our heads:
1)`I'm assuming Acuff is out. Do we know until when?
2) Even if SJU's centers aren't stellar, does Zach look comfortable at the five in whatever minutes he may get;
3) Having two super-hyped frosh, will our other new guys be aggressive, be afraid to miss shots, not to hang out on O and see if the ball comes to them;
4) for JMike, offensively to realize that full speed is not always the best speed, and, I'd love for him set a claim to be a stopper against anyone 6'4" and under;
5) I think I have a good idea of what to expect from EO: if he was a C grade player to move up to a B, at least B-;
6) An aggressive Lathan who comes out with a chip on his shoulder: "Hey, I love Ace and Dylan, but there are three frosh ready to impact the game"; to play his game, not get deterred if his shot's not falling or he gets a bad call;
7) for Dylan to hold his own on D and, from day one, show that on the offensive end he is the QB (FULL STOP); shot clock is under 12: ball in Dylan's hands above key
8) Ace--intelligent aggression and, in terms of overall game, to look like the Number 2 frosh and a lottery choice. To stand out from the crowd.
9) Positive surprises elsewhere.
I'm not thinking we'll "know the answers" to the below after one scrimmage but hope for enough to have us nodding, not shaking, our heads:
1)`I'm assuming Acuff is out. Do we know until when?
2) Even if SJU's centers aren't stellar, does Zach look comfortable at the five in whatever minutes he may get;
3) Having two super-hyped frosh, will our other new guys be aggressive, be afraid to miss shots, not to hang out on O and see if the ball comes to them;
4) for JMike, offensively to realize that full speed is not always the best speed, and, I'd love for him set a claim to be a stopper against anyone 6'4" and under;
5) I think I have a good idea of what to expect from EO: if he was a C grade player to move up to a B, at least B-;
6) An aggressive Lathan who comes out with a chip on his shoulder: "Hey, I love Ace and Dylan, but there are three frosh ready to impact the game"; to play his game, not get deterred if his shot's not falling or he gets a bad call;
7) for Dylan to hold his own on D and, from day one, show that on the offensive end he is the QB (FULL STOP); shot clock is under 12: ball in Dylan's hands above key
8) Ace--intelligent aggression and, in terms of overall game, to look like the Number 2 frosh and a lottery choice. To stand out from the crowd.
9) Positive surprises elsewhere.
We’re not disagreeing. I said we should try Dylan and Ace to defend Richmond, in addition to JWill and Derkack. I was more saying that I wouldn’t want Ace to be the “primary” defender of Richmond. That’s all.
We are going to learn a little about Dercack in the scrimmage. Will he be asked to guard Richmond and if so, how will he look.
I’m gonna go in a different direction and say that this exhibition may reveal something about the coaching, in particular the head coach.
Imo, this season Pike will have his biggest challenge yet at the helm of RU bball. That’s because:
1) Expectations are high (incl. preseason ranking)
2) Two NBA draft picks on his roster, but young
3) Only 3 returning scholarship players
4) Blend of 5 freshmen with 4 veteran transfers
5) No proven center with P5 experience
So, this game I’ll be looking for things like what chemistry has been developed in the offseason, has Pike instilled a positive team-first attitude, will we defend like Pike teams do, what mix of players will he tinker with, how will he handle minutes distribution (at the 5-spot in particular), and will he let them run and gun more than any Pike team we’ve seen to-date?
Imo, this season Pike will have his biggest challenge yet at the helm of RU bball. That’s because:
1) Expectations are high (incl. preseason ranking)
2) Two NBA draft picks on his roster, but young
3) Only 3 returning scholarship players
4) Blend of 5 freshmen with 4 veteran transfers
5) No proven center with P5 experience
So, this game I’ll be looking for things like what chemistry has been developed in the offseason, has Pike instilled a positive team-first attitude, will we defend like Pike teams do, what mix of players will he tinker with, how will he handle minutes distribution (at the 5-spot in particular), and will he let them run and gun more than any Pike team we’ve seen to-date?
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I can tell you just watching the intrasquad scrimmage he has definitely instilled Pikell defense into them
📺 - BTN
🕰️ - 6:30pm ET
🏟️ - Jersey Mike's Arena
rutgers.rivals.com
🕰️ - 6:30pm ET
🏟️ - Jersey Mike's Arena
Rutgers Basketball set to take on St. John's in Charity Exhibition
Here's everything you need to know about Rutgers Basketball's Charity Exhibition against St. John's later today.
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As a poster mentioned in another thread, parking is always Free if you don’t mind walking a bit.
St. John’s Men’s Basketball Faces No. 25 Rutgers in Charity Game
St. John's Men's Basketball Faces No. 25 Rutgers in Charity Game
St. John's men's basketball team is set to visit No. 25 Rutgers for a charity exhibition on Thursday, with proceeds supporting the Dick Vitale Pediatric Cancer
bvmsports.com
St. John’s men’s basketball exhibition preview: Rutgers
St. John’s men’s basketball exhibition preview: Rutgers
The Red Storm take on the Scarlet Knights in their first dress rehearsal of the season on Thursday (6:30 p.m., Big Ten Network)
www.rumbleinthegarden.com
St. John's basketball expected to be healthy for exhibition against No. 25 Rutgers
St. John's basketball expected to be healthy for exhibition against No. 25 Rutgers
The St. John's basketball team will be healthy entering its first exhibition game of the season against Rutgers.
I'm way too amped up for an exhibition game
No. 25 Rutgers Men's Basketball Hosts St. John's in Exhibition Thursday
No. 25 Rutgers men's basketball readies for the 2024-25 season with an exhibition game against St. John's, presented by Prudential. https://scarletknights.com/news/2024/10/14/no-25-mens-basketball-hosts-st-johns-in-exhibition-thursday.aspx
rutgers.forums.rivals.com
If J will can’t be tasked with guarding Richmond what is he doing then. A large part of his better than reported fit is that he takes a lot of pressure off Dylan and Ace on defensive side, can be the one to guard the other teams lead handler. Putting Ace on the other teams lead ball handler makes zero sense, as he might be our worst man to man defender.
Williams IS an excellent defender ... but Richmond is an unusual player, the exception, rather than the rule - a 6'6" and powerfully built, player who specializes in the mid-range game and posting up smaller guards. As good as Williams might be defensively, at 6'4" he is likely to have difficulties containing Richmond without help defense.
Now, Pikiell's defensive scheme relies heavily on terrific defensive help and defensive rotations - which are not likely to be fully in place or learned at this stage of practice and the season (one reason why this teams generally improve over the course of the season). But it is much easier to work the entire scheme if you can rely on ONE defender to basically take out the other team's best player without substantial defensive help, especially if the best player is the trigger guy for the other team's offense. McConnell was that type of defender .... Mag, pre-injury, was developing into that type of player. Williams is a very good defender, but NOT that type of defender, in my opinion. Davis could be such a defender, but at 6'2" cannot stop an experienced and very good 6'6" post-up guard.
And, yes, i do nto disagree about Bailey's on-ball defensive expectations (not his specialty). But ... 6'8" to 6'9" and freakishly athletic can SOMETIMES make up for some lack of fundamentals ... or not. As an EXPERIMENT, I thought it might be interesting to see what Bailey might be able to do.
FYI, if Deivon Smith is fully healthy, he is actually a pure PG - over Richmond - for St. Johns ... really giving them 2 PG's on the floor (Richmond is also a scoring guard). At 6'1" or so, but quick, Smith is a good player for the opposition to stop.
Alternatively, of course, putting Williams on Richmond, and NOT helping him, letting Richmond do what he does, but not opening up other players to get open by doubling Richmond, might work also ... if all other defenders stick with their offensive assignments, and limit those from scoring.
A lot of ways to slice this.
Anyway, we'll see in about 3 1/2 hours how RU lines up. For example, will RU play more zone, especially when playing small at the 5? With their length and quickness, a zone might be useful at times, eh?
Checking in from Dubai international airport You guys are my eyes and ears ,why is there no freakin booze here
At Brickhouse Tavern in South Plainfield, a few RU fans here eating some appetizers and should be headed to RAC by 6PM for 630 start.
