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Suriano to Wrestle if We Have a Season!

Awesome news. Hopefully there is a season or else we'll need to wait an another year to see Suriano and Rivera in the lineup together.
 
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Man I hope Alvarez can make the cut to 125.

AA potential in Alvarez, Janzer and McDermott. National champ potential in Suriano and Rivera. Super talented wild card freshmen in Vulakh and Poz and time a lesser extent Kanniard. And former NQ’s in MVB and Grello.
If the over/under for NQ’s was set at 8.5, would anyone have the guts to take the under?
 
8.5 NQs is about right. Less than 8 is below expectations. SCNJ, I am not as high on Kinniard as you are. I think Donner will earn the spot. If healthy, team should finish top 7. If not top 7, there needs to be a re-evaluation if Goody has become an example of the Peter Principle. If we finish in the top 5, the team will be a contender for a long time. This year will tell us a lot.
 
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8.5 NQs is about right. Less than 8 is below expectations. SCNJ, I am not as high on Kinniard as you are. I think Donner will earn the spot. If healthy, team should finish top 7. If not top 7, there needs to be a re-evaluation if Goody has become an example of the Peter Principle. If we finish in the top 5, the team will be a contender for a long time. This year will tell us a lot.

Peter Principle? Since getting promoted, the guy took a program with 20 fans in the barn about to make the cutting block and made it into a regional name with top 5 attendance, brilliant marketing while developing “good” college wrestlers like Perrotti, Delvecchio and Ken Theo into All Americans and 2 national champions. Perhaps he’s not elite and has possibly plateaued, but what I just described doesn’t sound like someone promoted to a position only to display incompetence. Want Peter Principle? See Kyle Flood.
 
Peter Principle? Since getting promoted, the guy took a program with 20 fans in the barn about to make the cutting block and made it into a regional name with top 5 attendance, brilliant marketing while developing “good” college wrestlers like Perrotti, Delvecchio and Ken Theo into All Americans and 2 national champions. Perhaps he’s not elite and has possibly plateaued, but what I just described doesn’t sound like someone promoted to a position only to display incompetence. Want Peter Principle? See Kyle Flood.

I expected some defensiveness after Racpack's post. However, I do think he has a valid concern. Building the program to where it is was great. Building wrestlers is different from marketing and building attendance. I'm certainly not against Goodale but do think it is good to always evaluate a situation. From what I have observed over the years, some very good wrestlers have come into the program and underperformed. Developing wrestlers to be better should be a minimum expectation. The past two years looked a lot alike to me. Around mid-year, commenters in this forum become frustrated with much the same things: weak on bottom, reluctance to shoot, poor follow-through, last second losses... Sound familiar? Then there were press conferences both of the past two years where Goody complained about the practices and the wrestlers not working on what they should. I once asked who is in charge of practices if not him? I got no response.

I also once asked if anyone could explain the Rutgers development process; again, no response. Development of wrestlers is a process; it's not just practice. I find myself wondering if the kids are carefully evaluated, given an improvement plan, and coached through their weaknesses. The coach's complaints about practices the past two years suggest to me that it's all up to the wrestlers to do it themselves. Sure, they can improve by training with others better than them, but an improvement plan that targets weaknesses and improves on strengths and teaches strategies in a deliberate way would be much better. So I ask again, is there a formal development process or is it ad-hoc? Can anyone explain the process?
 
8.5 NQs is about right. Less than 8 is below expectations. SCNJ, I am not as high on Kinniard as you are. I think Donner will earn the spot. If healthy, team should finish top 7. If not top 7, there needs to be a re-evaluation if Goody has become an example of the Peter Principle. If we finish in the top 5, the team will be a contender for a long time. This year will tell us a lot.
How can you make such a dumb comment when you haven't even seen the lineup yet??? We're still 3 months out and could RS many starters. Sheesh. What is wrong with our fans?
 
I expected some defensiveness after Racpack's post. However, I do think he has a valid concern. Building the program to where it is was great. Building wrestlers is different from marketing and building attendance. I'm certainly not against Goodale but do think it is good to always evaluate a situation. From what I have observed over the years, some very good wrestlers have come into the program and underperformed. Developing wrestlers to be better should be a minimum expectation. The past two years looked a lot alike to me. Around mid-year, commenters in this forum become frustrated with much the same things: weak on bottom, reluctance to shoot, poor follow-through, last second losses... Sound familiar? Then there were press conferences both of the past two years where Goody complained about the practices and the wrestlers not working on what they should. I once asked who is in charge of practices if not him? I got no response.

I also once asked if anyone could explain the Rutgers development process; again, no response. Development of wrestlers is a process; it's not just practice. I find myself wondering if the kids are carefully evaluated, given an improvement plan, and coached through their weaknesses. The coach's complaints about practices the past two years suggest to me that it's all up to the wrestlers to do it themselves. Sure, they can improve by training with others better than them, but an improvement plan that targets weaknesses and improves on strengths and teaches strategies in a deliberate way would be much better. So I ask again, is there a formal development process or is it ad-hoc? Can anyone explain the process?
Who has underperformed, and have we had more underperformers than any other program? Don't act like we've had really elite talent underperform. Our "fans" have such a double standard and love to eat their own. More BS for the most part, as every program has underperformers.

Clearly, you've never stepped foot in the APC or Barn and have no connection to anyone remotely close to the program or coaches because you have no clue what goes on. The wrestlers aren't just left to fend for themselves.
tenor.gif
 
I expected some defensiveness after Racpack's post. However, I do think he has a valid concern. Building the program to where it is was great. Building wrestlers is different from marketing and building attendance. I'm certainly not against Goodale but do think it is good to always evaluate a situation. From what I have observed over the years, some very good wrestlers have come into the program and underperformed. Developing wrestlers to be better should be a minimum expectation. The past two years looked a lot alike to me. Around mid-year, commenters in this forum become frustrated with much the same things: weak on bottom, reluctance to shoot, poor follow-through, last second losses... Sound familiar? Then there were press conferences both of the past two years where Goody complained about the practices and the wrestlers not working on what they should. I once asked who is in charge of practices if not him? I got no response.

I also once asked if anyone could explain the Rutgers development process; again, no response. Development of wrestlers is a process; it's not just practice. I find myself wondering if the kids are carefully evaluated, given an improvement plan, and coached through their weaknesses. The coach's complaints about practices the past two years suggest to me that it's all up to the wrestlers to do it themselves. Sure, they can improve by training with others better than them, but an improvement plan that targets weaknesses and improves on strengths and teaches strategies in a deliberate way would be much better. So I ask again, is there a formal development process or is it ad-hoc? Can anyone explain the process?

He used the term “Peter Principle”. As described, Goody has displayed just the opposite based on his performance. Don’t change the goalpost.

Again, maybe Scott has plateaued as a recruiter. Maybe he’s the guy to set the table but not put it to the next level (see Schiano 2010). Honestly, those are legitimate discussions. However, performance on the mat is as much Donnie as Goodale at this point so if you think our wrestlers underperform than that is as much on Pritzlaff and I don’t see any of you being critical of him. Do I think we are aggressive enough? No. But there are not a lot of Cael’s and Brands out there.

Leonard23 is right. We have a good program but the only elite wrestlers ever to step foot on the mat were Suriano and Ashnault and both pretty much performed to expectations. Suriano made back to back finals and Ashnault was a 3-time national semi finalist and 3 time big ten champ including his title. *Maybe* he should have broke through in 2016, but the kid still knocked off Kolodzik and took 6th. He lost to top 5 guys. Yes, Scott Winston and Mario Mason under achieved, but the latter didn’t perform in Minnesota and Winston was very early in Scott’s career, had some other issues and battled more injuries late in his career than people realize.

When they got to RU nobody predicted Perrotti or Theobold would AA. Delveccio had potential but wasn’t a bonafide blue chip stud. In fact, Ken took over for Mason. Van Brill was not a blue chip recruit and was 18 seconds away with a 4 point lead from AA before his brain fart. Richie Lewis was an AA if he went 157. That’s on him.

Our issue has partially been recruiting. We have solid wrestlers but not elite. Now would another coach pull in the next level wrestler? Perhaps. But I don’t think it’s a development issue.
 
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He used the term “Peter Principle”. As described, Goody has displayed just the opposite based on his performance. Don’t change the goalpost.

Again, maybe Scott has plateaued as a recruiter. Maybe he’s the guy to set the table but not put it to the next level (see Schiano 2010). Honestly, those are legitimate discussions. However, performance on the mat is as much Donnie as Goodale at this point so if you think our wrestlers underperform than that is as much on Pritzlaff and I don’t see any of you being critical of him. Do I think we are aggressive enough? No. But there are not a lot of Cael’s and Brands out there.

Leonard23 is right. We have a good program but the only elite wrestlers ever to step foot on the mat were Suriano and Ashnault and both pretty much performed to expectations. Suriano made back to back finals and Ashnault was a 3-time national semi finalist and 3 time big ten champ including his title. *Maybe* he should have broke through in 2016, but the kid still knocked off Kolodzik and took 6th. He lost to top 5 guys. Yes, Scott Winston and Mario Mason under achieved, but the latter didn’t perform in Minnesota and Winston was very early in Scott’s career, had some other issues and battled more injuries late in his career than people realize.

When they got to RU nobody predicted Perrotti or Theobold would AA. Delveccio had potential but wasn’t a bonafide blue chip stud. In fact, Ken took over for Mason. Van Brill was not a blue chip recruit and was 18 seconds away with a 4 point lead from AA before his brain fart. Richie Lewis was an AA if he went 157. That’s on him.

Our issue has partially been recruiting. We have solid wrestlers but not elite. Now would another coach pull in the next level wrestler? Perhaps. But I don’t think it’s a development issue.
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I’ll echo the sentiment that Goodale has done a lot with very little. For every top flight guy that didn’t pan out, there’s a couple underreceuited guys that did very well (Perrotti, Delvecchio, Theobold, etc) and while the team hasn’t always necessarily lived up to their potential during the regular season, they’ve always shown up come March. Goodale should have a contract as long as he wants the job, and I think he’ll eventually step aside once Ashnault is done with his career and ready to take over.

Like Leonard said, we have to see what the lineup will look like come January
 
8.5 NQs is about right. Less than 8 is below expectations. SCNJ, I am not as high on Kinniard as you are. I think Donner will earn the spot.
Kanniard was the #6 national recruit out of his weight class so the high school pedigree is there. He made improvements over the course of his 16-6 redshirt year and took 3rd at the National Collegiate Open. He probably would have taken 2nd if not for an early matchup against eventual champ and former #7 overall recruit in Julian Ramirez. Ramirez probably wrestling down a weight class from where he should be and Kanniard bumped up mid year. Still, Kanniard was the only wrestler in the tournament to give Ramirez a match. I don’t think Kanniard is a future national champ but I do think he has the ability to compete for NQ spot immediately and think he can be an AA at some point in his career.
 
Wow took the day off from the forum and a couple posters go nuts. Agree with Leonard, SCNJ and Jersey Boys....RacPack-really if not top 7 coach should be re-evaluated? We had two Champions and just barely finished 10th? IF Suriano and Rivera make the finals, who are the other high AA's.....you dont score many points with guys going 2-2 or 1-2.
And will bet a $10 beer that Kanniard will be the starter.

And Pessimistacly, sorry but that is an idiotic post. Yea, the coaching staff has no plans on how to address our wrestlers weaknesses, they just blow the whistle and tell them to figure it out.
 
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Who has underperformed, and have we had more underperformers than any other program? Don't act like we've had really elite talent underperform. Our "fans" have such a double standard and love to eat their own. More BS for the most part, as every program has underperformers.

Clearly, you've never stepped foot in the APC or Barn and have no connection to anyone remotely close to the program or coaches because you have no clue what goes on. The wrestlers aren't just left to fend for themselves.
tenor.gif
" Who has underperformed" As stated in the post after yours, Winston and Mason come to mind.

"Don't act like we've had really elite talent underperform"
I'm not acting, just observing.

"More BS for the most part, as every program has underperformers" When striving for excellence, you don't take solace in others' failures.

"Clearly, you've never stepped foot in the APC or Barn and have no connection to anyone remotely close to the program or coaches because you have no clue what goes on"
Right, that's why I was asking about the process. Can you answer the question?
 
" Who has underperformed" As stated in the post after yours, Winston and Mason come to mind.

"Don't act like we've had really elite talent underperform"
I'm not acting, just observing.

"More BS for the most part, as every program has underperformers" When striving for excellence, you don't take solace in others' failures.

"Clearly, you've never stepped foot in the APC or Barn and have no connection to anyone remotely close to the program or coaches because you have no clue what goes on"
Right, that's why I was asking about the process. Can you answer the question?

I addressed the Mason and Winston stuff in my post. Mason spent 2 years at Minnesota... a program that has won national championships and developed countless wrestlers. He actually regressed in his second season and came home. His replacement when it didn’t work here was a no name recruit and not only became an AA knocking off the second seed from Okie State but was one of our most exciting wrestlers for 2 seasons. Scott Winston had some issues and I’ll leave it at that. Also, the guy was wrestling in pain for several seasons and his injuries were somewhat downplayed but legitimate.

Again, who are these kids that significantly under performed? The problem with this fan base is that we over rate our lineup every year. Again, you want to argue Goody can’t land the elite kids to put us over the top? Sure, I can buy that. But let’s not make him out to be some incompetent boob who rose above his abilities and can’t run a program. Given the rosters we have had the past 10 years I actually think we have finished pretty much where we should have but Goodale has developed the infrastructure to achieve much more if things start to fall in place.

Here is my question. Who is this mysterious coach that we replace Goody with to get us to top 10 status? And please... only achievable names. There is only one I can think off and he’s already on staff.

All I will say is be careful what you wish for.
 
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Saying that Goody maybe a victim of the Peter Principle is not a bad thing. To me it means he rose to a really high level but might not be able to take us further.

Has his recruiting reached its peak! Is it possible to get better recruits? How far can we go with our current recruiting? Do we need a better RTC? Is the Princeton partnership working to our benefit? Do we need more than one coach with All America credentials? Could a different coach break into Delbarton and Blair?
I am not an insider as others on the forum indicate they are. I have been involved in college athletics for 4 decades and have significant experience with wrestling coaches from other D 1 programs. Living in NJ, I have become a Rutgers fan and am impressed where Goody has taken the program. To me it seems that some insiders are happy where the program is. Our current status would not be acceptable at other top programs. Just one person’s observations.
 
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I really hope we have a season with the current team. Suriano, Rivera & Alvarez can really do some damage with possibly 2 champs again.
 
Saying that Goody maybe a victim of the Peter Principle is not a bad thing. To me it means he rose to a really high level but might not be able to take us further.

Has his recruiting reached its peak! Is it possible to get better recruits? How far can we go with our current recruiting? Do we need a better RTC? Is the Princeton partnership working to our benefit? Do we need more than one coach with All America credentials? Could a different coach break into Delbarton and Blair?
I am not an insider as others on the forum indicate they are. I have been involved in college athletics for 4 decades and have significant experience with wrestling coaches from other D 1 programs. Living in NJ, I have become a Rutgers fan and am impressed where Goody has taken the program. To me it seems that some insiders are happy where the program is. Our current status would not be acceptable at other top programs. Just one person’s observations.

You people baffle need. We were a NOTHING program 10 years ago. A mid tier program happy to beat Rider once in a while. Do you people have any clue how far we have gone in 10 short years. My GOD perspective people. I want to be a top 10 program badly.

Peter Principle means you rise to the level of your incompetence. In other words you do an admirable job in one position only to get promoted up until you rise to a position your are incompetent at and fail. The “program” has exploded under Goody wrestling in the RAC in front of thousands every week producing multiple national champions and as many all Americans as nearly our entire history. How the F do you apply the Peter Principle here? In the words of Inigo Montoya “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means”
 
Kanniard was the #6 national recruit out of his weight class so the high school pedigree is there. He made improvements over the course of his 16-6 redshirt year and took 3rd at the National Collegiate Open. He probably would have taken 2nd if not for an early matchup against eventual champ and former #7 overall recruit in Julian Ramirez. Ramirez probably wrestling down a weight class from where he should be and Kanniard bumped up mid year. Still, Kanniard was the only wrestler in the tournament to give Ramirez a match. I don’t think Kanniard is a future national champ but I do think he has the ability to compete for NQ spot immediately and think he can be an AA at some point in his career.
He learns to get out of bottom(still a problem) and I see future blood round / AA potential. Kids aggressive and always the one pushing the action and shooting, those kids place. I was very impressed with his NCO performance being it was the 1st time he wrestled 165. Took Ramirez to a 9-5 match, who basically walked through the rest of that tournament.
 
And will bet a $10 beer that Kanniard will be the starter.
You can tell from my post I won't be taking that bet. I know a few former wrestlers from Wall and they told me the kid was legit. I thought it was just the Wall boys backing one of their own. But we attended the Michigan match together and they talked my ear off about how bad this kid wants to be an AA and has the work ethic to get it done. I watched the NCO and it made me a believer.
 
I go on the forum to express opinions based on my experience. I have watched college wrestling since the 1970’s. Coaches I watched closely and learned from include Noel at Cornell, Turner at Lehigh, Lorenzo at Penn State, and limited time watching Strobel at Lehigh. I am not a RU insider or SKWC Board member. My observation is that Goody has done a helluva job getting the program to where it is. No other candidate in the early 2000’s could have gotten us where we are. No doubt that Rutgers has surpassed Lehigh and the NJ schools as a fan favorite. Goody has built a really good program that should be sustainable. I am just not sure that RU can get to the next level without changes. I know that recruiting needs to pick up. I will not comment further on this topic.
 
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Alvarez will get better by just breathing the same air as those two. [roll] On another note what happens with Aguilar now. If you opt out this year do to covid do you lose a year of eligibility?
Iron sharpening iron. Aguilar if he's patient could be a legit AA after spending time with Suriano. With Suriano at 125, on paper this easily is RU's best team ever:

125 Suriano
133 Alvarez
141 Sea Bass
149 Vulakh (Aragona RS)
157 MVB (Angelo backup/RS?)
165 Kanniard (Donner backup)
174 Grello (Turley RS)
184 Poz
197 Janzer
HVY Colucci
 
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Iron sharpening iron. Aguilar if he's patient could be a legit AA after spending time with Suriano. With Suriano at 125, on paper this easily is RU's best team ever:

125 Suriano
133 Alvarez
141 Sea Bass
149 Vulakh (Aragona RS)
157 MVB (Angelo backup/RS?)
165 Kanniard (Donner backup)
174 Grello (Turley RS)
184 Poz
197 Janzer
HVY Correnti
Just trying to figure out what Aguilar's choices are if this comes to fruition. Again can he opt out of the season do to covid and not lose a year of eligibility? As he doesn't have the redshirt option any longer. I'm pretty sure but not 100% sure, in football if you opt out you preserve a year of eligibility.
 
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Just trying to figure out what Aguilar's choices are if this comes to fruition. Again can he opt out of the season do to covid and not lose a year of eligibility? As he doesn't have the redshirt option any longer. I'm pretty sure but not 100% sure, in football if you opt out you preserve a year of eligibility.
Aguilar came to Rutgers during Suriano’s junior year, before we knew Suriano was going 133. Aguilar had to have known that there was a good possibility that he’d only be a 3 year starter at best.

I feel for him for the way it went down, but he’s going to get much better spending the year practicing with Suriano and Rivera than he will if he transfers to a lesser school in order to start.
 
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Iron sharpening iron. Aguilar if he's patient could be a legit AA after spending time with Suriano. With Suriano at 125, on paper this easily is RU's best team ever:

125 Suriano
133 Alvarez
141 Sea Bass
149 Vulakh (Aragona RS)
157 MVB (Angelo backup/RS?)
165 Kanniard (Donner backup)
174 Grello (Turley RS)
184 Poz
197 Janzer
HVY Correnti
I’m assuming you mean Colucci at heavy, but I agree this is a really good lineup. Need to avoid injuries because the bench isn’t very deep at certain weight classes
 
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If true, this has been my hope. Nicky backs down to no one and has always seemed to have his sights set on avenging his losses. This will be awesome. Watch, Lee will now jump up to 133.
Spencer weighs about 128 pounds, come on now
 
I go on the forum to express opinions based on my experience. I have watched college wrestling since the 1970’s. Coaches I watched closely and learned from include Noel at Cornell, Turner at Lehigh, Lorenzo at Penn State, and limited time watching Strobel at Lehigh. I am not a RU insider or SKWC Board member. My observation is that Goody has done a helluva job getting the program to where it is. No other candidate in the early 2000’s could have gotten us where we are. No doubt that Rutgers has surpassed Lehigh and the NJ schools as a fan favorite. Goody has built a really good program that should be sustainable. I am just not sure that RU can get to the next level without changes. I know that recruiting needs to pick up. I will not comment further on this topic.
Your experience is challenged only because of disagreement with your comments. I think you made valid points.
 
If true, this has been my hope. Nicky backs down to no one and has always seemed to have his sights set on avenging his losses. This will be awesome. Watch, Lee will now jump up to 133.
Not sure why you think Lee will bump up. The Olympic weights are 125.4 and 143. Lee is not going 143 for the Olympics, so it makes no sense for him to put 10 or so good pounds on, just to have to suck more weight when the time comes.
 
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