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Thinking we mostly see Eugene O at the four spot

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Scarlet Shack

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with the Harper verbal

As it stands for next year at the 1,2 and 3 spots you have eight players who cannot be interchanged at the 4 and 5: sanders, mensah, McClung, baker, Mathis, Kiss, bullock, and Harper

At the four and five spots your have four guys who cannot be interchanged at the 1,2. And 3 spots Doorson, doucoure, and Johnson

Thiam and onamuyri and can play some three and four ....

Thiam looks more perimeter and onamuyri looks more inside and you can't do it with three guys at those spots so I'm thinking we see Eugene st the PF spot exclusively next year and mostly in 17-18
 
Unless there is additional player movement ... like Bullock (playing time - I am actually surprised he is still with RU) and/or Doorson (injury - maybe he never is really well enough?) ... and Sanders seems very likely to be gone as well.

That might change the equation, no?

With unknown players, you would have a roster that looks like this:

PG: Mensah (Sr), MacClung (Fr)
SG: Baker (So), Mathis (Fr) ... Kiss (So)
WF: Thiam (Jr), Kiss (So), Harper (Fr) ... Omoruyi (Jr)
PF: Doucore (Fr) ... Omoruyi (Jr) ... Recruit (Fr)
C: Doucore (Fr), Johnson (So) ... Recruit (Fr)

Though laid out like that, Omoruyi still does seem likely to be needed at the 4 spot, with less room at the 2 or 3 spots.

If Bullock, Doorson and Sanders are all gone for 1 reason or another, RU would need TWO more front court recruits for the 2018 class, I would think. If 2 are gone (Bullock and Sanders, let us say), then RU would need 1 more front court recruit for the 2018 class.
 
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I've been saying this since the tail end of last season. EO just seems more built like a 4, and lacks perimeter skills that you need out of a 3.

In the last several games, he was backing up Freeman at the 4. I think his future with RU is at the 4.
 
I agree that it's very likely that Sanders will be gone and that there will be a transfer. If doorson leaves too, there is a massive hole at the 5 position. Hopefully we get someone to fill that starting role (Doucore at 4), and another front court player.
 
Is it possible Bullock is not already gone because the staff could not find him a landing place?
 
Coach Pike has been high on Eugene this off season communicating that he's working his butt off; training very hard and getting into much better shape.

He signed late and hence the situation was far from ideal for him last year.

I see Eugene as a plugger type - a versatile guy who will provide maximum effort for 15-18 minutes a game - and whose best contributions will be off the defensive side stat sheet - such as defense; rebounding; defending the opponents' tough interior type of players etc.
 
jellyman said:
Unless there is additional player movement ... like Bullock (playing time - I am actually surprised he is still with RU) and/or Doorson (injury - maybe he never is really well enough?) ... and Sanders seems very likely to be gone as well.

That might change the equation, no?

With unknown players, you would have a roster that looks like this:

PG: Mensah (Sr), MacClung (Fr)
SG: Baker (So), Mathis (Fr) ... Kiss (So)
WF: Thiam (Jr), Kiss (So), Harper (Fr) ... Omoruyi (Jr)
PF: Doucore (Fr) ... Omoruyi (Jr) ... Recruit (Fr)
C: Doucore (Fr), Johnson (So) ... Recruit (Fr)

Though laid out like that, Omoruyi still does seem likely to be needed at the 4 spot, with less room at the 2 or 3 spots.

If Bullock, Doorson and Sanders are all gone for 1 reason or another, RU would need TWO more front court recruits for the 2018 class, I would think. If 2 are gone (Bullock and Sanders, let us say), then RU would need 1 more front court recruit for the 2018 class.
Click to expand...

Explain to us why you are surprised a redshirt freshmen who has not played in a game is still on the team?
 
RU-Choppin-Ohio said:
Explain to us why you are surprised a redshirt freshmen who has not played in a game is still on the team?
Click to expand...

Because redshirting in basketball (especially non big men) is exceedingly rare. We could have used all the help we can get last year.
 
I find it interesting that on the Men's Basketball website Bullock is listed as a Sophomore for this upcoming season and no mention of a medical redshirt.

Could be nothing but thought it was worth noting since usually you'd see it mentioned somewhere in the player's profile like it is for DeShawn Freeman
 
RU-Choppin-Ohio said:
Explain to us why you are surprised a redshirt freshmen who has not played in a game is still on the team?
Click to expand...

Because from what I saw in Bullock's High School highlights he did not look like a Division 1 basketball player, not even a mid-level Division 1 player. Yeah, I know highlights are not the be all and end all - and are very limited in what they can tell you. But usually highlight videos make a player out to be BETTER than they actually are, and do not UNDERSTATE their potential. At least that is my experience.

Based on my viewing of those highlight videos, he looks to me like a Power Forward the size of a short to medium-height 2G. I do not think a guy can contribute in the Big Ten at PF at just 6'3" tall. Unless he was Phil Sellers or Adrian Dantley type skills ... and even they were not that short, and played in an era with less size.

I have no proof, but I do suspect he was granted a scholarship player at least partly for building bridges in NJ (he was supposedly popular in NJ, and Pikiell was coming into RUJbrand new, and needed bodies), and also because he might have helped get Naz Reid. He may also be the character of kid/player Pikiell likes - which is fine.

In all fairness, he was red shirted, I understand, because he was hurt, not because he did not make the rotation. Of course, Pikiell also indicated that both Thiam and Omoruyi could have benefited from a red shirt year, but they were needed immediately, so played.

BK: Of course you are correct on one level! But I can multi-task. I can both enjoy what I hope will be additional progress this coming season, but also look at our 2018 recruiting class with an eye towards thinking about what RU might need, and what the roster might look like 2 years from now. And honestly, the offer (and commitment) of Harper is slightly mystifying UNLESS RU has room for at least 1 more, and possibly 2 more, recruits in the 2018 recruiting class - both of whom would seem to have to be post players. Thus it is natural to think about how RU is going to have room for those additional recruits.
 
My issue with it is this:

Bullock, Doorson and Sanders are enrolled at Rutgers and members of the current basketball team. Wishing them away because they don't meet some perceived standard (not good enough, loyalty, etc) just doesn't sit right with me. I support all the kids on the roster till such time that they aren't. Even then, they are RU for life in my eyes.

Give the guys a break. Don't get greedy. Support the squad and relax on the hypotheticals. 2018 will be here soon enough, and this year has the chance to be a lot of fun
 
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BKIn118 said:
My issue with it is this:

Bullock, Doorson and Sanders are enrolled at Rutgers and members of the current basketball team. Wishing them away because they don't meet some perceived standard (not good enough, loyalty, etc) just doesn't sit right with me. I support all the kids on the roster till such time that they aren't. Even then, they are RU for life in my eyes.

Give the guys a break. Don't get greedy. Support the squad and relax on the hypotheticals. 2018 will be here soon enough, and this year has the chance to be a lot of fun
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... we will have to agree to disagree, then.

First, I do not "wish away" players, generally. Sanders is a perfect example. I actually play hoops with someone who purports to know Sanders. I continue to think Sanders would be best served to play 4 years of college ball - which I have told this person I know, and explained why I believe so numerous times to this person and on the Board ... and suggested to him he pass this along to Sanders - one person's view. The pressure (i.e. Sanders' "people") on Sanders to leave college has been very strong - starting with during his Freshman year. Hat's off to him for resisting this pressure to date. I can feel free to speculate that this might be his last season - even if I might believe he would be better off staying.

Second, I believe that it is a fan's right to critique (not criticize, and there is only a fine of difference sometimes) players. I have an opinion on some of the players, and expect to continue to express them, periodically.

Third, I ALWAYS root for every player on the team to do well, to be healthy and to be happy. I can do that, even while I critique or comment.
 
I don't think the topic is giving any sort of indication of not rooting for RU or anything along those lines....this is a very typical and open-book type of discussion.

A) Sanders is our most experienced/talented player and has not once but twice, made an indication (whether realistic or not) to place himself in the draft to find out his status....while that is standard for a lot of players to get a free evaluation, it's not unreasonable to forecast that a better Sanders season will lead to RU having a winning season.

If Sanders were to stay for his senior season, RU benefits from him being the player that leads RU to the next level, while this influx of new talent is added to the program.

B) The staff has no choice but to upgrade the roster and if we are looking at the rest of the B1G, everyone is recruiting at a high level....competition is something RU fans are not used to seeing, so may the best players win playing time....if that means a player that is not forecasted to be a contributor or has not contributed on the court, the likelihood is that a better player will replace that kid on the roster.

This discussion doesn't mean anyone here is a bad fan for discussing it, it's the truth (a very harsh one) about competition. So while fans are super-excited about what's developing, this is really not the time to ignore that the rest of the conference is past this mindset....There is no nice way to say competition is exactly that.

If we have an opportunity to add another Top 150-200 recruit in the next 60-90 days, that's a good thing...we've seen the other "nice side" of things and it's not worked in the past....time to move the program past this mindset....it doesn't mean anyone here is against any current player pushing forward for RU, but the reality is, if RU is going to eventually make the NIT and NCAA's, there are current players on the roster that are going to either improve to a level to get RU there, or potentially get replaced by another recruit that is more talented to move RU forward.
 
jellyman said:
Hmmm ... we will have to agree to disagree, then.

First, I do not "wish away" players, generally. Sanders is a perfect example. I actually play hoops with someone who purports to know Sanders. I continue to think Sanders would be best served to play 4 years of college ball - which I have told this person I know, and explained why I believe so numerous times to this person and on the Board ... and suggested to him he pass this along to Sanders - one person's view. The pressure (i.e. Sanders' "people") on Sanders to leave college has been very strong - starting with during his Freshman year. Hat's off to him for resisting this pressure to date. I can feel free to speculate that this might be his last season - even if I might believe he would be better off staying.

Second, I believe that it is a fan's right to critique (not criticize, and there is only a fine of difference sometimes) players. I have an opinion on some of the players, and expect to continue to express them, periodically.

Third, I ALWAYS root for every player on the team to do well, to be healthy and to be happy. I can do that, even while I critique or comment.
Click to expand...

You came in and singled out a guy who redshirted and has yet to see game action. You said, "I'm surprised he is still here". That is just stupid because he redshirted and has not yet played in a game. Everyone knows he had to lose some weight and get in better shape....that's what last year was all about. This year he will have a chance
 
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I always pull for all of our guys and will continue to do so. I would like to see Bullock & Doorson both make contributions for this coming season and into the future as well.
 
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jellyman said:
Hmmm ... we will have to agree to disagree, then.

First, I do not "wish away" players, generally. Sanders is a perfect example. I actually play hoops with someone who purports to know Sanders. I continue to think Sanders would be best served to play 4 years of college ball - which I have told this person I know, and explained why I believe so numerous times to this person and on the Board ... and suggested to him he pass this along to Sanders - one person's view. The pressure (i.e. Sanders' "people") on Sanders to leave college has been very strong - starting with during his Freshman year. Hat's off to him for resisting this pressure to date. I can feel free to speculate that this might be his last season - even if I might believe he would be better off staying.

Second, I believe that it is a fan's right to critique (not criticize, and there is only a fine of difference sometimes) players. I have an opinion on some of the players, and expect to continue to express them, periodically.

Third, I ALWAYS root for every player on the team to do well, to be healthy and to be happy. I can do that, even while I critique or comment.
Click to expand...

You are missing BK's point, entirely. Your opinion of whether Sanders should stay in school or Bullock is a Div1 player is just that. I would argue not particularly educated or enlightened one, given your main "evidence" is a handful of videos. Not every player can be a star, but let's not forget the kid was 1st Team All-State.

BKs point, I think, is about having the perspective that these are people, not numbers on a statsheet or video game. Believe it or not, you really have no idea how a lot of kids will play when he gets to college. Remember Joel Salvi? He was derided coming into RU because there was almost nothing impressive about his profile; mediocre JUCO stats, undersized physique "for the Big East". The guy left campus a legend by playing almost 100% on grit, love for the game and understanding his role.

Sure, there's big $$ involved & we all get fired up at times -- but when fans feel it's their "right" to critique it is for the rest of us like sitting next to Statler & Waldorf. Don't be a muppet.
 
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If we don't fill that last spot this year with a big man (which because of the Harper commitment must be either a grad transfer or a reclassification of a 2018 player) AND Doorson is still not 100%, then we will be taking a step backwards this year. Sorry but every game we have to rely on major minutes at the four from Omoyuri is a game we lose. And if there is no Doorson or another big man on the roster he will be there often, and not where he is supposed to be which is to be a defensive presence at the three for a few minutes a game.
 
What I don't get is I started a thread about onamuyri having his minutes coming from the four door gojng forward and how it morphed into a war words over this so far off topic ...

And among some of the better posters around here

Sheesh....
 
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The topics are fair about where a player can fit into a rotation and at what position can they contribute....I don't think Eugene is a true SF and is more of a PF, the question is can he play PF at this level at 6'7 to 6'8" after this season or are we going to need to recruit one or two players that will be on the roster for the 2018-19 season to replace Freeman and Sa...???

Freeman can be replaced by Eugene, the question is, whether there is enough roster depth in place to not have a PF or C in the fall signing period or pick up that player(s) this spring....it's a valid question on whether we may already be OK because Eugene is making strides this summer or whether we need another PF/C.

For this coming season, I believe we will see and need Eugene at the SF and PF position, just because we don't have Laurent and Peter Kiss is on the roster but not able to play as a transfer in. Thiam will be at SF, I don't think we will see him playing SG at times like last year....This season is Eugene's real chance to step forward, minutes are there and he'll have ample opportunity to make an impact.
 
LOL...I'm sure Corey was just waiting on the opinion of somebody here to decide his senior year plans in August pre-Jr. season.
 
With (players like) Thiam at the 3, you can play smaller 4's like Desean or EO Because you can switch everything defensively. What I like about the way we recruit is we recruit "big" at the 3. Thiam and Harper, Jr and EO (can also play 3) allows you do a lot of good stuff on defense and on the glass. We dont give a lot of three guard looks. A lot of Calhoun influence in that type of lineup
 
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