Thoughts after Michigan State

[bac2therac]

There is not anything to recap

Its about talent, men vs boys

its about Pikiell going have to recruit studs in 2018 and 2019 because without that RU will never get better than 4-14 in league

RECRUIT RECRUIT RECRUIT

I do not know if he is going to get it done, he was never a slam dunk hire. He is a great coach but the odds are stacked against him because he is not a sexy name recruiter but thats his task. Against the odds he must get a great haul, there is no other way.

What is obvious in the first 3 league games and seeing what other Big 10 teams have done,. that RU is nowhere near ready to be able to cut the gap signficantly to compete in this league. (because this is important too, RU does not exist in a vacuum, their progress is measured against what other Big 10 schools are doing). The games may be closer by and large this year and you figure RU will get one or two along the way but everyone needs to slow down.

RU with Pikiell has improved. Right off the bat, 11 wins in non conference is a 5 game improvement over last year. RU has cut the gap and improved against weaker competition. They have shedded the expectation to lose against bad teams. That is a step forward and even if we wanted bigger steps, there is a reason teams do not go from 7 wins to 16 in one season and especially a team still last in the league in talent. So Pikiell has changed the culture and the approach of this team, what is a much tougher task is getting the team to just compete in conference games, forget wins, what needs to happen from here on out is competitiveness. When a school has lost 38 of 41 league games, winning just does not happen. It will take time and it will take better players. This job is the toughest of any Power 5 conference school and probably tougher than what Ash faces in football. We were all somewhat fooled by the fast start, some more than others, but lets just consider that was the first step, the needed step and now the next step is alot harder and we need to understand that

 

[RUinSC]

So why bother then?
Disagree about the slam dunk hire. We have never had a more talented group of coaches who have been at "name" schools and can recruit to boot.

 

[Mr Magoo]

So why bother then?
Disagree about the slam dunk hire. We have never had a more talented group of coaches who have been at "name" schools and can recruit to boot.

It pretty "slam-dunky" if you include the assistants and they recruit to their abilities.

Pikiell, by himself, was not a slam dunk but the head coach gets the credit or the blame. Nevertheless, what an improvement over what we had.

 

[seels2662]

Even if this team was a legit NIT team we would not be close to the Michigan States of the world. If we are lucky there are kids in elementary school that will help us be the equals of the Sparties. Thats how long it may take to build this.

I will say one thing about this game, Sanders is close. That will help a great deal.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

We are a wrestling school.:angry:

 

[APKnight]

My thoughts are just settle down. Mich State played lights out. Doubt they can play any better. Of course recruiting is the key going forward. Everyone knows that. I still think we will win a few games in big 10 this year.

 

[RutgHoops]

@MSU and @Wisc are quite possibly the two toughest games on our schedule. I'm going to wait a bit longer before writing this teams obituary.

KenPom has us at #142. Two spots behind a team that just beat North Carolina.

 

[DocRU]

This is not about the program stepping up to the B1G. RU was a bottom feeder for many years in the old Big East as well. 10 straight losing seasons and counting, let's not forget. Pikiell has afterall succeeded a long line of disastrous coaches here. Not going to turn it around quickly, especially with such a young team playing together for the first time. But you have to be encouraged by the quality of the staff, and facility upgrades in the near future. And by Corey Sanders, who is starting to feel his oats.

 

[RUsojo]

Yawn

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

Next 2 games will be telling. At Iowa and home for NW

 

[bac2therac]

So why bother then?
Disagree about the slam dunk hire. We have never had a more talented group of coaches who have been at "name" schools and can recruit to boot.

its not slam dunk because Pikiell isnt a guy with a name that can waltz in, yes for the first time ever the assistant coaches are actually legit and comparable with the rest of the league..thats huge but Rutgers is a tough sell and its going to be incredibly difficult to pull in the recruits we need. I think some people are faked out when they see a player play well and assume he is a legit Big 10 player. There are several players on this current team that have been touted that are not at this level and never will be. We need significant upgrades across the board. Only one player (Sanders) would start at another school in this league. Our young guys need to develop sooner than later because there will not be a later if they cannot produce in their first two years, thats just the reality. Pikiell will be here at least 6 years so its going to be a long slog

 

[ru66]

Pressing the panic bottom is so common around here

 

[bac2therac]

who is pressing the panic button, what does that mean. I am just saying better get used to the idea of only 1-3 conference wins and accept that there is a pretty large gap between RU and the rest of the Big 10 even though so called bottom teams whoever they may be right now...this current crop isnt going to be the ones that are dancing in the NCAA, Pikiell needs to basically recruit over everyone. Sanders and Williams are best two players will be gone by the time RU makes the NCAA

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sanders has a good personal offensive game. We lose by 25+ and we give up 93 points.

Does this look familiar?

The guy he guards has 20+ points.

Maybe, just maybe, we are better having Sanders play 25 minutes. Allocating extra minutes to Williams. Demand that Sanders stay in front of his man.

Every other game Pikiell would have benched him for his defensive play. Tonight was different.

I like the Sanders I saw in the 1st 15 games. I hated tonight's Sanders. I am even more disappointed in Pikiell.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

36 minutes (way too much). 0 assists.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Eron Harris 24 points 19 minutes. Guarded most of the night by Sanders.

 

[RUBand]

So why bother then?
Disagree about the slam dunk hire. We have never had a more talented group of coaches who have been at "name" schools and can recruit to boot.

Excellent staff

 

[ColonelRutgers]

36 minutes (way too much). 0 assists.

Hmmm, so many great shooters and finishers to pass to. Maybe he just couldn't decide.

• Omoruyi 0-4
• Sa 1-5
• Diallo 1-3
• Thiam 1-4
• Williams 1-4
• Freeman - 5 turnovers, 2 charges

Sanders led the team in rebounds and steals too, but, yeah, he was the problem tonight. We saw Nigel starting at point last game. That was really efficient. Or maybe Williams who has as many assists as Omoruyi should've been point. But again, Sanders did give up 90 points on his own defensively so maybe we should see if Shayle Keating has some eligibility left.

 

[richthedentist]

Agree with Colonel I even said this to my daughter during the game he can get by anyone but has absolutely no one to kick the ball out to because no one can shoot.

 

[RU MAN]

There is not anything to recap

Its about talent, men vs boys

its about Pikiell going have to recruit studs in 2018 and 2019 because without that RU will never get better than 4-14 in league

RECRUIT RECRUIT RECRUIT

I do not know if he is going to get it done, he was never a slam dunk hire. He is a great coach but the odds are stacked against him because he is not a sexy name recruiter but thats his task. Against the odds he must get a great haul, there is no other way.

What is obvious in the first 3 league games and seeing what other Big 10 teams have done,. that RU is nowhere near ready to be able to cut the gap signficantly to compete in this league. (because this is important too, RU does not exist in a vacuum, their progress is measured against what other Big 10 schools are doing). The games may be closer by and large this year and you figure RU will get one or two along the way but everyone needs to slow down.

RU with Pikiell has improved. Right off the bat, 11 wins in non conference is a 5 game improvement over last year. RU has cut the gap and improved against weaker competition. They have shedded the expectation to lose against bad teams. That is a step forward and even if we wanted bigger steps, there is a reason teams do not go from 7 wins to 16 in one season and especially a team still last in the league in talent. So Pikiell has changed the culture and the approach of this team, what is a much tougher task is getting the team to just compete in conference games, forget wins, what needs to happen from here on out is competitiveness. When a school has lost 38 of 41 league games, winning just does not happen. It will take time and it will take better players. This job is the toughest of any Power 5 conference school and probably tougher than what Ash faces in football. We were all somewhat fooled by the fast start, some more than others, but lets just consider that was the first step, the needed step and now the next step is alot harder and we need to understand that

Bac all great points except for thinking that Pikiell is not a slam dunk hire. He is. We just need to understand the reality that he and his staff already know. We just don't have B1G talent to compete night in and night out. Tonight was brutal. Absolutely brutal, but I'm still confident Pikiell gets it done here. Was Jim Calhoun a slam dunk hire when he came from Northeastern to coach at UCONN? Hell no!

This man is the damn best coach we've had here going all the way back to Young and that '75/'76 team. Bannon could have been good. Wenzel wasn't bad and Waters was out of his element when it came to recruiting. I feel Pikiell KNOWS what it's going to take to win here. And with the new facilities being built he has a lot to sell now especially because we are in the B1G. He will get it done here. I am that confident in this hire. Even more so than the Ash hire and I still think Ash will get it done as well.

 

[MGSA99]

For this year at least, we are still the doormat of the Big 10. The question is can we move up the ladder next year.

 

[mikefla]

Wow...a little over HALF the season gone with EJs guys & already he isnt the coach we need?
Anyone with even a scintilla of BBall saavy can see improvement & he hasnt even recruited yet

Not many but we did a FEW things well
we matched them in REBs (34)
beat them in ........O REBS (15-7)
had more steals (8-6)
and fewer fouls (20-22)

We also shot 41% to their 57%
.. ....FG shot 44% to 72%
...THEY sank 50% of their 3pointers

MSU & its coach have been top tier most of my lifetime
MSU simply has MORE talent......
Their bench shot 15-24 & had 20 REBs...shooting 64%
Id wager they could sit their starting 5 & give many teams a good game...

 

[TMCB]

We have a coach and we have a system, just need a few players. It will come. Sanders in NBA is laughable.

 

[shields]

Greene, who is Corey passing the ball to like Colonel said? Williams did nothing and Freeman committs fouls or turns the ball over. I remember the one time Thiam shot the ball and other kid blocked shot and they got dunk at other end, but it is all the fault of Corey.

 

[RickB113]

You will literally not find another team in the country that talks about defensive effeciency stats. You certainly won't find a team that brags about them when they lose by double digits like we did after a PSU.

The best thing about this game was Corey seems to have his swagger back. He was great tonight. He should have had 4 or 5 assists if anyone on our team could finish or shoot.

We lose by 40+ without him tonight. And his D wasn't that bad. Is he a stopper? No, but neither are most of the best scorers on other teams. Hard to put out that type of energy on both sides of the court.

And Johnson was covering Harris a lot.

 

[bac2therac]

Wow...a little over HALF the season gone with EJs guys & already he isnt the coach we need?
Anyone with even a scintilla of BBall saavy can see improvement & he hasnt even recruited yet

Not many but we did a FEW things well
we matched them in REBs (34)
beat them in ........O REBS (15-7)
had more steals (8-6)
and fewer fouls (20-22)

We also shot 41% to their 57%
.. ....FG shot 44% to 72%
...THEY sank 50% of their 3pointers

MSU & its coach have been top tier most of my lifetime
MSU simply has MORE talent......
Their bench shot 15-24 & had 20 REBs...shooting 64%
Id wager they could sit their starting 5 & give many teams a good game...

Apparently you didnt read my post

 

[bac2therac]

Bac all great points except for thinking that Pikiell is not a slam dunk hire. He is. We just need to understand the reality that he and his staff already know. We just don't have B1G talent to compete night in and night out. Tonight was brutal. Absolutely brutal, but I'm still confident Pikiell gets it done here. Was Jim Calhoun a slam dunk hire when he came from Northeastern to coach at UCONN? Hell no!

This man is the damn best coach we've had here going all the way back to Young and that '75/'76 team. Bannon could have been good. Wenzel wasn't bad and Waters was out of his element when it came to recruiting. I feel Pikiell KNOWS what it's going to take to win here. And with the new facilities being built he has a lot to sell now especially because we are in the B1G. He will get it done here. I am that confident in this hire. Even more so than the Ash hire and I still think Ash will get it done as well.

I think people are misinterpreting what I mean by slam dunk hire. To me thats a guy from a power 5 school or a high mid major was had pretty good success with recruiting players. Pikiell was a very solid hire and smart hire but its not the slam dunk given where this program is. I am not knocking Pikiell. He is a great coach and did wonders at a relatively obscure program. The rebuild job here is enormous. Pikiell has already done things that have shaken some of the losing culture away. I would give him a solid A on his job this season. I think some people believe its a quick fix but Pikiell has so many obstacles to overcome with perception and how far behind we are in faciliities..even though we are getting them. He must recruit like the dickens the next two to three years. Fortunately he has the best assistant staff ever assembled at RU to help. Thats what it comes down to and thats where my comment about not getting it done refers to. Its a tough job here, some of us believed the talent level was pretty good to compete in the Big 10 now, but we are starting to find out we need way more. Pikiell can coach, that much I know, recruiting is the unknown here and its dogged this program for years. Need to follow up a solid class with consecutive solid classes and then consecutive solid classes. Have to break the cycle

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Greene, who is Corey passing the ball to like Colonel said? Williams did nothing and Freeman committs fouls or turns the ball over. I remember the one time Thiam shot the ball and other kid blocked shot and they got dunk at other end, but it is all the fault of Corey.

That is BS. Are guys aren't that bad..

The Thiam block got me thinking. Many of us correctly said looking at his HS tapes that Thiam wasn't going to get shots off in college. Did the staff have enough time to change his shot? I don't know what can and can not be done regarding coaching. We know changes have to be made this summer.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Relative to Jordan Pikiell can really coach.

I think it is early to make any conclusions until we see how he can recruit and some success on the court.

Last night really bothered me. Reading his quotes after the game made me more upset. 93 points on 72 possessions with tons of dunks should not sit well. We had 1 guy routinely get burnt by different opponents play 36 minutes. Harris and McQuaid aren't above average B1G guards. I know i am in the minority here, but very disappointed. I wasn't bothered 1 bit by the Penn State loss. This one stung.

 

[Mr_Twister]

We need shooters and we need ballers. See Iowa State. See Butler. See VCU. We need players who relish beating teams on the opponent's home court. The Big Ten is not for the timid or weak or the developing player. Players need to arrive ready to compete and show their stuff.

 

[ScarletLongIsland]

Relative to Jordan Pikiell can really coach.

I think it is early to make any conclusions until we see how he can recruit and some success on the court.

Last night really bothered me. Reading his quotes after the game made me more upset. 93 points on 72 possessions with tons of dunks should not sit well. We had 1 guy routinely get burnt by different opponents play 36 minutes. Harris and McQuaid aren't above average B1G guards. I know i am in the minority here, but very disappointed. I wasn't bothered 1 bit by the Penn State loss. This one stung.

Agreed, MSU was the worst game that we played to date. Unwatchable. For the most part, Pikiell has good gameplans. Whether we have players who can execute is a different story.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

[QUOTE="RickB113, post: 2556774, member: 2100

We lose by 40+ without him tonight. [/QUOTE]

No! you need to focus on the defensive end.

Not sure why Williams got so few minutes.

 

[SirScarlet]

its not slam dunk because Pikiell isnt a guy with a name that can waltz in, yes for the first time ever the assistant coaches are actually legit and comparable with the rest of the league..thats huge but Rutgers is a tough sell and its going to be incredibly difficult to pull in the recruits we need. I think some people are faked out when they see a player play well and assume he is a legit Big 10 player. There are several players on this current team that have been touted that are not at this level and never will be. We need significant upgrades across the board. Only one player (Sanders) would start at another school in this league. Our young guys need to develop sooner than later because there will not be a later if they cannot produce in their first two years, thats just the reality. Pikiell will be here at least 6 years so its going to be a long slog

as a HC who does fit that category?

are you talking guys like coach K, Self, Roy, etc?

honestly, not sure what you mean.

we have a top notch staff...let's give them a little time. and didnt we just get a 4* to commit?

if you're trying to say that we have to continue to recruit at that level to get better in the B1G...nobody would argue with you. But you're making it seem like we have to go out and get 5* recruits for us to get better. that's the tone/tenor of your post.

which is why several folks are debating you on your post.

do we need to get better? yes. is that what you're trying to say?

 

[RUJMM78]

The notion that Sanders had a bad game is ridiculous .He and Johnson were the only players with a offensive pulse.Nine out of the twelve Rutgers players scored 7 or less points which is a clear sign what is causing the double digit losses.Michigan State has young elite talent and Rutgers has very little talent regardless of the level of experience.

Pikiell like all previous Rutgers head coaches will succeed or fail based primarily on recruiting.What has occurred in the past is that the recruits were not of the talent level to be successful in the Big East and those who were talented transferred .The end result has been squads full of complementary type players not suited for power level competition.

The only question that matters going forward is the ability of Pikiell and staff to break the hex of losing by recruiting top tier players.Negative recruiting works when Rutgers has so many consecutive seasons of losing records.I don't see 2017-2018 top tier recruits rushing to make a verbal commitment to Rutgers.As the season progresses and the league losses mount the challenge becomes far more difficult.Its the Catch 22 scenario where Rutgers has to win first before top tier recruits will come.

The notion that slow incremental progress will work has been proven wrong time and again because the level of competition isn't sitting still waiting for Rutgers to catch up in football or basketball.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The notion that Sanders had a bad game is ridiculous .He and Johnson were the only players with a offensive pulse.Nine out of the twelve Rutgers players scored 7 or less points which is a clear sign what is causing the double digit losses.Michigan State has young elite talent and Rutgers has very little talent regardless of the level of experience.

Pikiell like all previous Rutgers head coaches will succeed or fail based primarily on recruiting.What has occurred in the past is that the recruits were not of the talent level to be successful in the Big East and those who were talented transferred .The end result has been squads full of complementary type players not suited for power level competition.

The only question that matters going forward is the ability of Pikiell and staff to break the hex of losing by recruiting top tier players.Negative recruiting works when Rutgers has so many consecutive seasons of losing records.I don't see 2017-2018 top tier recruits rushing to make a verbal commitment to Rutgers.As the season progresses and the league losses mount the challenge becomes far more difficult.Its the Catch 22 scenario where Rutgers has to win first before top tier recruits will come.

The notion that slow incremental progress will work has been proven wrong time and again because the level of competition isn't sitting still waiting for Rutgers to catch up in football or basketball.

Watch the tape (I don't blame you if you dont want to..it is on the BTN ap) and focus on the D. We have up 93 points in 72 possessions and most were the guards fault. We got blown out, and the game had the same feeling as a Jordan game. A total and complete non compete on the defensive side of the court.

Again if you focus on Sanders on the defensive end, possession by possession, you will realize he hurt us way more on the defensive end than what he could have brought offensively.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

I wonder if Izzo is looking to bench his front court guys because Rutgers got 15 of our 34 rebounds on the offensive end on 35 missed shots (meaning we got an offensive rebound on half our misses).

MSU was lights out last night... period.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I wonder if Izzo is looking to bench his front court guys because Rutgers got 15 of our 34 rebounds on the offensive end on 35 missed shots (meaning we got an offensive rebound on half our misses).

MSU was lights out last night... period.

It was 15/42 35.7%...and i bet he wasn't happy...and yes substiutions could have been made as a direct result.

OREB is 1 thing we did good last night, and that is a hustle stat. 15/42 35.7% is decent. We did better than that if you assume quite a few of MSU DREBs came way of missed FTs and you aren't going to OREB many missed FTs.

 

[motel00]

"That is BS. Are guys aren't that bad.."

Actually, they are

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

CJ 3 Eugene 3 Doorson 2 Diallo 2 got multiple OREBs. I really thought Diallo and Shaq played well in limited minutes.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

It was 15/42 35.7%...and i bet he wasn't happy...and yes substiutions could have been made as a direct result.

OREB is 1 thing we did good last night, and that is a hustle stat. 15/42 35.7% is decent. We did better than that if you assume quite a few of MSU DREBs came way of missed FTs and you aren't going to OREB many missed FTs.

that stats via Yahoo and the Rivals site show 15O and 19D for 34 total. ? Show MSU 34 total as well with just 7 offensive end. (thought that seemed rather low but more shots were made)....