Too many players contributing nothing

[bac2therac]

Today was brutal but this has been trending this way with a few players. RU has depth but it doesnt matter when only a few players are actually contributing in the game

Johnson complete and utter disaster of a game. Johnson, Sa, and Doorson contributed ZERO points, Thiam and Diallo just 2. This roster needs an upheavel of major proportions in the next two years.

Johnson 0-3 fg, 3 T0, 0 points
Sa 0-3 fg, 6 reb, 0 points
Doorson 0-0fg, 1 reb, 0 points
Thiam 1-2 fg, 2 points
Diallo 1-2 fg, 3 reb, 2 points
Omoruyi 1-2 fg, 1 reb, 4 points


Particularly disappointing is the decline of Thiam and also Sa two players that needed to contribute if RU was going to win league games. They did it in the nonconference play but have both regressed. Pike needs to play Diallo, Thiam, and Omoruyi as much as possible to get them better for next year. I fear that Doorson just is not going to work out contrary to all the hype some were building up about him. Johnson is not what he was adverstised as and his minutes got limited today for sure.

RU has only one player that would play more than 20 minutes at another Big 10 team...thats Coreytand he played great today. The reality is that this team may not win a game and just does not have the horses to compete at all this year. This might be a case of Pike needing to sit some players down and talk about their futures elsewhere and opening up some more scholorships. It looks pretty bleak the rest of this year given the production decline and trends since conference play began. The one thing we can latch onto is that the team still does not give up and battles somewhat, unfortunately just not enough talent to produce

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

That and somebody on the team needs to grow a pair. And not Corey.

 

[shields]

Omoruyi shows no basketball IQ, that foul today was just dumb play.

 

[zebnatto]

I have no idea where coach can go to get points.

 

[RU MAN]

Today was brutal but this has been trending this way with a few players. RU has depth but it doesnt matter when only a few players are actually contributing in the game

Johnson complete and utter disaster of a game. Johnson, Sa, and Doorson contributed ZERO points, Thiam and Diallo just 2. This roster needs an upheavel of major proportions in the next two years.

Johnson 0-3 fg, 3 T0, 0 points
Sa 0-3 fg, 6 reb, 0 points
Doorson 0-0fg, 1 reb, 0 points
Thiam 1-2 fg, 2 points
Diallo 1-2 fg, 3 reb, 2 points
Omoruyi 1-2 fg, 1 reb, 4 points


Particularly disappointing is the decline of Thiam and also Sa two players that needed to contribute if RU was going to win league games. They did it in the nonconference play but have both regressed. Pike needs to play Diallo, Thiam, and Omoruyi as much as possible to get them better for next year. I fear that Doorson just is not going to work out contrary to all the hype some were building up about him. Johnson is not what he was adverstised as and his minutes got limited today for sure.

RU has only one player that would play more than 20 minutes at another Big 10 team...thats Coreytand he played great today. The reality is that this team may not win a game and just does not have the horses to compete at all this year. This might be a case of Pike needing to sit some players down and talk about their futures elsewhere and opening up some more scholorships. It looks pretty bleak the rest of this year given the production decline and trends since conference play began. The one thing we can latch onto is that the team still does not give up and battles somewhat, unfortunately just not enough talent to produce

I have been stating what you suggested in your last paragraph for some time: we need to get rid of many of these kids who will NOT develop into B1G players. They just don't have it and I think they would do really well in mid-major leagues but not in the B1G.

I also think for the remaining of this year, because we are such a bad shooting team, but rotate so many players in and out, Pikiell should think of pressing more and changing up the defensive looks from man to man to various zones. What we do well is rebound and play hard nosed defense. Off of a press we can cause TO's and get cheap points and if they break our press, it will give them less time to set up their half court offense.

Personally, we need to cut bait with several of these players. I would like to see Pikiell bring in some more JUCO players who can shoot ala Jerome Coleman and as you stated, if we want Sa, Thiam and Omoruyi to develop, they should get even more playing time for next year.

 

[Mr Magoo]

I have been stating what you suggested in your last paragraph for some time: we need to get rid of many of these kids who will NOT develop into B1G players. They just don't have it and I think they would do really well in mid-major leagues but not in the B1G.

I also think for the remaining of this year, because we are such a bad shooting team, but rotate so many players in and out, Pikiell should think of pressing more and changing up the defensive looks from man to man to various zones. What we do well is rebound and play hard nosed defense. Off of a press we can cause TO's and get cheap points and if they break our press, it will give them less time to set up their half court offense.

Personally, we need to cut bait with several of these players. I would like to see Pikiell bring in some more JUCO players who can shoot ala Jerome Coleman and as you stated, if we want Sa, Thiam and Omoruyi to develop, they should get even more playing time for next year.

Right now we have interchangeable mid-high MAAC-level players.

It's just as concerning that while we should "cut bait" on some players, with the exception of the big man that committed, we appear to be signing more of the same.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Today was brutal but this has been trending this way with a few players. RU has depth but it doesnt matter when only a few players are actually contributing . . .

Which is another way of saying that RU really doesn't have depth.

RU has a very good player in Sanders, a few potential role players, and the rest of the roster.

 

[RU MAN]

It's just as concerning that while we should "cut bait" on some players, with the exception of the big man that committed, we appear to be signing more of the same.

The new kid who has committed should be able to help us both offensively and defensively. The PG, not so much. I see him more as a way to open up our offense and dish more so that Corey and Nigel and Geo (coming in) can get more open looks from the outside. Of course that won't mean anything if we can't hit from the outside. I think Pikiell needs to search the JUCO ranks and find us another Jerome Coleman-type and fast for next season and beyond.

 

[mrslate]

I continue to believe more of the offense needs to flow through Gettys, passing out of either the high or low post, and shooting more. When he was playing well today, the team looked much better. He was terrible from the stripe today, but so was everyone else. Too many turnovers as well, and again, he was not alone. But whenever he is replaced, the offense goes flat, and his replacements have zero offensive game.

 

[TDIrish27]

You can't just " cut bait ". This isn't the NBA.

You can have an honest conversation with a kid about future playing time but at the end of the day if he likes it at Rutgers and wants to remain with the Program there isn't much a coach can or should do.

It's hard enough to recruit here but let the word get out that you're running guys off and it will become problematic on the recruiting trail trust me.

Coach has a 5 year contract-------it's going to time to build this and the fan base needs to be patient.

 

[goru7]

I have no idea where coach can go to get points.

First thing he can do running his offense, is switch our big, CJ, Diallo, or Shaquille from touching the ball up top and let our 3 man, who is not doing much, Laurent or Issa catch the ball there. Laurent can drive , his strength from there or shoot( he is our best foul shooter) from 15 feet out, and Issa can drive or pass from there. .The bigs can stay on the blocks for the dump down or crash the boards. Stop the dribble hand offs with the bigs and the guards for that matter. Eliminate it from the playbook tonight! The team has to discover the bounce pass , which would prevent some of the steals and cause more fouls.

The second thing we have to do is shoot more threes not less. Do not know how anyone thinks you can win shooting 1-6 , which we did today?. I am almost positive there will not be another team in the country shoot only 6 threes in a game all year. Everyone has become tentative and refuses to pull the trigger early in the clock even though it is an open look. I know we have seen some horrendous stats like 1-12 and 3-20 but unless we get the guys like Nigel, Mike and Issa shooting them in rhythm again we will not give ourselves a chance. Corey was tremendous in the first half and cannot do it alone , even those 2 open threes missed by Nigel on great kick outs by Corey prevented our being tied at the half . I have stated early in the year we needed to hit 6 threes a game to win 6-8 conference games. We are only making 4 a game , the worst in the conference and maybe the country but making 1 single three the last 2 games is mind boggling. 3 games this year , Seton Hall, Iowa, and Northwestern were wins with just 1-2 more threes . Coach has mentioned he only wants to shoot 10 a game but this is getting ridiculous.

 

[willisneverrana43]

And, of course, reinstitute the "Mike Williams hits 3 three-pointers every game" offense.

 

[Jim_from_RU]

You can't just " cut bait ". This isn't the NBA.

You can have an honest conversation with a kid about future playing time but at the end of the day if he likes it at Rutgers and wants to remain with the Program there isn't much a coach can or should do.

It's hard enough to recruit here but let the word get out that you're running guys off and it will become problematic on the recruiting trail trust me.

Coach has a 5 year contract-------it's going to time to build this and the fan base needs to be patient.

Been patient a long time bro. It's gotta happen at some point.

 

[rucoe89]

Right now we have interchangeable mid-high MAAC-level players.

It's just as concerning that while we should "cut bait" on some players, with the exception of the big man that committed, we appear to be signing more of the same.

Low level MEAC at best, but to coaches and players credit they keep trying and keep things somewhat respectable.

 

[njcanesfan]

I have no idea where coach can go to get points.

Nowhere... we have what we have. No one is going to become a shooter overnight, or throughout the season. Need Thiam and Mike Williams to make shots. If not... we'll continue to see more of the same... this team is what it is. The only thing we can see change is the damn turnovers.

 

[RUsojo]

Nothing more needs to be said about this team and roster. It's all pretty clear.

 

[PatrickRU92]

you could use the title of this thread to describe the last 25 years

 

[Drsupremo]

Forget everything erlse -- who is playing well, who stinks, who has BIG talent etc. etc. -- all we need to do is make 75% of our foul shots, make 90% of our chippies and reduce our turnovers by 50% and we have a decent team. These are not hard things to do. It is shocking that we can't get out out of our own way. Is it that hard to do?

 

[PatrickRU92]

Forget everything erlse -- who is playing well, who stinks, who has BIG talent etc. etc. -- all we need to do is make 75% of our foul shots, make 90% of our chippies and reduce our turnovers by 50% and we have a decent team. These are not hard things to do. It is shocking that we can't get out out of our own way. Is it that hard to do?

It certainly IS hard to do when the players we have typically aren't good at doing those things. Why do you think we consistently don't do those things well? Do you think they aren't stressed enough by the staff? or is it that we don't have good scorers, we have a roster full of poor FT shooters or we don't have good ball handlers and passers compared to our B1G peers?

 

[Mr_Twister]

You can't just " cut bait ". This isn't the NBA.

You can have an honest conversation with a kid about future playing time but at the end of the day if he likes it at Rutgers and wants to remain with the Program there isn't much a coach can or should do.

It's hard enough to recruit here but let the word get out that you're running guys off and it will become problematic on the recruiting trail trust me.

Coach has a 5 year contract-------it's going to time to build this and the fan base needs to be patient.

We are re-defining patient. Did the University of Chicago decide for themselves, or did the Big Ten tell them they were done? History could be repeating itself ...

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

• nothing like feeding the ball down low to guys who can't finish and get fouled and can't make the foul shots.
• nothing like driving to the basket to guys who can't finish and get fouled and not make the foul shots.
• nothing like shooting from the outside and missing.

other than that, scoring is fine.
usually guys who can't shoot well get to the line and score from there. nope, not us.

 

[rufan4ever]

Today was brutal but this has been trending this way with a few players. RU has depth but it doesnt matter when only a few players are actually contributing in the game

Johnson complete and utter disaster of a game. Johnson, Sa, and Doorson contributed ZERO points, Thiam and Diallo just 2. This roster needs an upheavel of major proportions in the next two years.

Johnson 0-3 fg, 3 T0, 0 points
Sa 0-3 fg, 6 reb, 0 points
Doorson 0-0fg, 1 reb, 0 points
Thiam 1-2 fg, 2 points
Diallo 1-2 fg, 3 reb, 2 points
Omoruyi 1-2 fg, 1 reb, 4 points


Particularly disappointing is the decline of Thiam and also Sa two players that needed to contribute if RU was going to win league games. They did it in the nonconference play but have both regressed. Pike needs to play Diallo, Thiam, and Omoruyi as much as possible to get them better for next year. I fear that Doorson just is not going to work out contrary to all the hype some were building up about him. Johnson is not what he was adverstised as and his minutes got limited today for sure.

RU has only one player that would play more than 20 minutes at another Big 10 team...thats Coreytand he played great today. The reality is that this team may not win a game and just does not have the horses to compete at all this year. This might be a case of Pike needing to sit some players down and talk about their futures elsewhere and opening up some more scholorships. It looks pretty bleak the rest of this year given the production decline and trends since conference play began. The one thing we can latch onto is that the team still does not give up and battles somewhat, unfortunately just not enough talent to produce

Today was brutal but this has been trending this way with a few players. RU has depth but it doesnt matter when only a few players are actually contributing in the game

Johnson complete and utter disaster of a game. Johnson, Sa, and Doorson contributed ZERO points, Thiam and Diallo just 2. This roster needs an upheavel of major proportions in the next two years.

Johnson 0-3 fg, 3 T0, 0 points
Sa 0-3 fg, 6 reb, 0 points
Doorson 0-0fg, 1 reb, 0 points
Thiam 1-2 fg, 2 points
Diallo 1-2 fg, 3 reb, 2 points
Omoruyi 1-2 fg, 1 reb, 4 points


Particularly disappointing is the decline of Thiam and also Sa two players that needed to contribute if RU was going to win league games. They did it in the nonconference play but have both regressed. Pike needs to play Diallo, Thiam, and Omoruyi as much as possible to get them better for next year. I fear that Doorson just is not going to work out contrary to all the hype some were building up about him. Johnson is not what he was adverstised as and his minutes got limited today for sure.

RU has only one player that would play more than 20 minutes at another Big 10 team...thats Coreytand he played great today. The reality is that this team may not win a game and just does not have the horses to compete at all this year. This might be a case of Pike needing to sit some players down and talk about their futures elsewhere and opening up some more scholorships. It looks pretty bleak the rest of this year given the production decline and trends since conference play began. The one thing we can latch onto is that the team still does not give up and battles somewhat, unfortunately just not enough talent to produce

Spot on.
This coaching staff is excellent and probably the best assembled one we have had at RU. It is obvious we currently don't have the talent which goes along with
depth.
If you have not noticed a pattern here, we come out strong for the first 5 to 10 minutes and then the tide changes. By the second half we have nothing left in the tank combined with the fact we can't make free throws.
Winning a conference game this season will be a difficult task.
That being said, do we have one of our brethren in Las Vegas?
Here's a proposal.
We get as many here on these boards to donate $100 to the "second half fund."
Don't take this the wrong way because in the long run we are all rooting for success. However, let's be realistic, it's not going to happen this season.
We also haven't covered a second half spread.
So, we take the money and bet against RU in the second half in Vegas where it is legal and no maximum limit.
After each win we increase the next wager.
If we start with $1000 and double down with each win, 10 wins in a row will turn the grand into $500,000.
And by the way the same strategy worked in football this season.
Then to demonstrate our support to RU basketball, we take the half million and donate it to the program.
With more participants the number becomes that much bigger.
It was obvious in conference football games and it surely looks the same here.
Lot's of money can be made jumping on this streak, sadly to say.

 

[jonS]

Nigel Johnson really played poorly today.

I continue to believe more of the offense needs to flow through Gettys, passing out of either the high or low post, and shooting more. When he was playing well today, the team looked much better. He was terrible from the stripe today, but so was everyone else. Too many turnovers as well, and again, he was not alone. But whenever he is replaced, the offense goes flat, and his replacements have zero offensive game.

I'd really like to see the forwards make some effort to shoot mid-range jumpers, even if they're unlikely to fall. What's happening is that since so much of Rutgers offense is centered within 1-3 ft of the basket , multiple defenders just crowd the paint and are able to either block shots or , as Indiana did today, make steals from Rutgers big men.

By the way, I thought Indiana was very well coached. They exploited Rutgers tendencies, moved very well on offense and played very good defense.

 

[DennisHajekRC84]

It certainly IS hard to do when the players we have typically aren't good at doing those things. Why do you think we consistently don't do those things well? Do you think they aren't stressed enough by the staff? or is it that we don't have good scorers, we have a roster full of poor FT shooters or we don't have good ball handlers and passers compared to our B1G peers?

I'm 100% certain the passing is stressed in practice. So much so that we have robots out there that don't even think before they pass..they just do it out of routine and the other team knows it is coming and why they are able to step right in , knowing it is coming. An inability to think on the court (yes...BBIQ) IS the issue.

Movement, position, spacing, balance, rotation..ALL fundamentals of a team concept that requires some individual decision making.

Watch our guys chase players around the court on defense like a conga line because they can't even understand the concept of cutting thru and beating the guy to the spot he is going to ..which is why they are always late getting there.

 

[dpwhite]

I agree, but think there's a lot of development that needs to go on for the young guys and Pikiell clearly has to recruit. Watching these games, man, they run really good stuff. Today Rutgers was bricking wide open shots, despite running good sets. The defense was good, but the passes were lazy at times and that led to the turnovers. There's a mental thing going on here too... they need to get a win to kind of reset the confidence. Hope it comes soon.

 

[TDIrish27]

Jim From RU

See Northwestern

 

[RUJMM78]

With each succeeding league game the trend is downward and there is no magic potion to change the trend.Without talent in a power conference its only a matter of time where your weaknesses are exposed and results on the scoreboard are entirely predictable.

All the euphoria of the out of conference record has been already lost because league competition clearly has shown Rutgers can't successfully compete.Even more distressing next season will probably be more of the same unless some players transfer and are replaced with shooters.The likelihood this will happen is slim.

Fans wish this nightmare of constant losing against league components would end.Just think for a second that Rutgers might only have only 3 B1G wins after playing three seasons of competition.Its beyond belief that this nightmare has gone on for over 25 years and counting.I like Coach Pikiell and his staff but I am not convinced that recruiting will dramatically improve because top tier recruits have high profile winning programs to choose from.Its a catch 22 scenario that Rutgers hasn't been able to solve.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Bac

What you are saying is very true on the OFFENSIVE side of the game...sure we are getting good rebounding and defense and an good effort to run good sets ...but the game is basketball is the object is to put the ball in the basket and we don't do that enough

Alarming is that we already had major offensive productivity issues at the 3 spot

Now with the deformation of productivity st the 2 spot....the two spots on the floor where the most ppg should be coming from are the weakest

I don't know what you can do about it except recruit out of it. And it isn't going to be for 2017-2018 as we are one over already if Diocurre reclassified (and we Need this happen badly)

We need to get a major prospect at the 2, 3, 5 for the class of 2018 ....

 

[Pritz99]

I, as so many on this board, have pleaded since the days of Waters to run. Somehow, there was always an excuse as to why we don't. I realize that it has to be the mindset of the team and particularly the coaching staff, and consequently, we won't have a running team....even though the make-up/talent on this team cries for it.

We have the size and rebounding for it. We have the speed (forwards & guards) and we have the guards to execute it. We have a putrid half-court offense which points towards running. What we may not have is the depth. What we have to realize that the strength of this team will be sacrificed -- much less half-court defense because we'll be trading breaks.

At present, the only chance for a win will be too catch lightning in a bottle (which I think we do once). As another poster intimated, it'll be a last 5 minutes fade at the end of the 1st half, and exhaustion in the latter part of the second. We don't have the talented depth to play intense defense for so long.

I'm quickly tiring of 64-52 losses where we really had little chance of winning. I'll take 84-72 losses with a lot more excitement and hopeful home cooking that we can steal a couple of wins.

 

[RUsince52]

• nothing like feeding the ball down low to guys who can't finish and get fouled and can't make the foul shots.
• nothing like driving to the basket to guys who can't finish and get fouled and not make the foul shots.
• nothing like shooting from the outside and missing.

other than that, scoring is fine.
usually guys who can't shoot well get to the line and score from there. nope, not us.

It's amazing how our bigs can't adjust their initial shot to create a foul chance. But they can get their shot blocked and not get fouled. The problem is it usually happens instinctively, but not for us. If you're on scholarship you should be somewhat capable as a BB player.

 

[bac2therac]

Forget everything erlse -- who is playing well, who stinks, who has BIG talent etc. etc. -- all we need to do is make 75% of our foul shots, make 90% of our chippies and reduce our turnovers by 50% and we have a decent team. These are not hard things to do. It is shocking that we can't get out out of our own way. Is it that hard to do?

this is true, but I do not think this team is consistent and talented enough to do those...and when they get those things figured out, it will be something else, today they shot well, next game they wont shoot well and something else they will do better. Team is what it is, I dont think they are close, they are not losing because of their own mistakes, they are losing simply because they are not as talented as their opponents

 

[bac2therac]

You can't just " cut bait ". This isn't the NBA.

You can have an honest conversation with a kid about future playing time but at the end of the day if he likes it at Rutgers and wants to remain with the Program there isn't much a coach can or should do.

It's hard enough to recruit here but let the word get out that you're running guys off and it will become problematic on the recruiting trail trust me.

Coach has a 5 year contract-------it's going to time to build this and the fan base needs to be patient.

these things have a way of working out, every program cuts bait, every programs loses lesser players to transfer, its reality

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I had kids sporting activities. Fired up the DVR and told family don't let me watch if we lost by more than 15. They took the remote from me.

Cowboys are losing at least.

 

[mikefla]

Sa.............0-3
Johnson...0-3
Doorson....0-0
Diallo........1-2
Omaruyi ...1-2
Thiam........1-2
Williams ....2-5
...................5-17
7 guys....5 buckets

One DECENT player could out produce these 7 on O

I believe coach P WILL find that player...
we may have one committed & one signed in Baker & Mensah.....

I still have hope one of the 7 above blossoms & starts to play basketball

 

[RUsince52]

Fixing the TO problem should be easy, but because of our half court set, it won't. Our TOs come on passes that shouldn't be made because most don't have a purpose. It's not on fast breaks where a good pass means an easy basket. We throw the ball inside and it gets stolen or comes back out again. Usually can't create off the pass because our guys just can't do those things well enough. Plus at times we have trouble catching the ball and reacting at the same time.
Don't know if extra coaching is the answer especially this many games into the season. FTs is a completely different issue.

 

[Pritz99]

But isn't that a big part of coaching? Emphasize and take advantage of whatever the talents of the players are? What do they do at practice? Everybody complained that EJ didn't run rebounding drills. Can't Pikiel run passing drills? Teach the bounce pass? Have them on the line critiquing their form and making them shoot till they can make 10 in a row? Do CJ, Sa, Diallo, Dooorson have a drop step?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I am not going to watch DVR'd game.

I hear 32 pts of the 21 TO. How many of those points were from transition off those TOs. How many pick 6s?

76 points allowed i 74 possession is a tad high, but crtainly within an acceptable range. Cant win games making 1-6 3s PLUS TOs PLUS FT. Impossible.

 

[willisneverrana43]

With each succeeding league game the trend is downward and there is no magic potion to change the trend.Without talent in a power conference its only a matter of time where your weaknesses are exposed and results on the scoreboard are entirely predictable.

All the euphoria of the out of conference record has been already lost because league competition clearly has shown Rutgers can't successfully compete.Even more distressing next season will probably be more of the same unless some players transfer and are replaced with shooters.The likelihood this will happen is slim.

Fans wish this nightmare of constant losing against league components would end.Just think for a second that Rutgers might only have only 3 B1G wins after playing three seasons of competition.Its beyond belief that this nightmare has gone on for over 25 years and counting.I like Coach Pikiell and his staff but I am not convinced that recruiting will dramatically improve because top tier recruits have high profile winning programs to choose from.Its a catch 22 scenario that Rutgers hasn't been able to solve.

Good recruiters eventually get players. We are hoping, but can't be sure, that Pikiell and his staff are good recruiters. If they are, we will improve significantly over time. If not, we won't.

 

[mrslate]

I am not going to watch DVR'd game.

I hear 32 pts of the 21 TO. How many of those points were from transition off those TOs. How many pick 6s?

76 points allowed i 74 possession is a tad high, but crtainly within an acceptable range. Cant win games making 1-6 3s PLUS TOs PLUS FT. Impossible.

You might want to watch just to see Sanders, but that might go against your narrative about him.

 

[shields]

Loved that the announcers talked about the D Corey was playing.