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Vince Okruch

Dec 15, 2015
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So I gotta think that the poor ST play has to be on him and not necessarily the players...next 5 games should be interesting to see if he improves...otherwise, you'd think he's gotta go
 
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I'm pretty sure you've been blaming everything on coaching, and have refused to believe that we have a serious lack of talent, correct? ST's are just one of the many (and obvious) reasons you need QUALITY DEPTH up-and-down your roster.
 
When have we ever had quality depth on our roster?!

We've had a SHIT-TON more than we have now, in the past, so let's not go there. This isn't rocket science. 4 lousy-to-awful classes in a row, combined with the loss of almost an entire class that would be all over the 1st and 2nd team as jr's and sr's now, has left us with a depleted roster worthy of a top-end MAC program. If you don't think that has an effect on ST's, well, I don't know what to tell you.
 
Top-end MAC Program...okay dude...here's some numbers for you...

Illinois Starting Offensive Lineup - COMPOSITE Recruiting Ratings of 84.26 with TWO WALKONS

Rutgers Starting Offensive Lineup - COMPOSITE Recruiting Ratings of 85.01 with no walkons and that includes Gio's recruit ratings

Yes recruit ratings don't tell you everything but its as best as I can do to show you that we do have talent
 
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We've had a SHIT-TON more than we have now, in the past, so let's not go there. This isn't rocket science. 4 lousy-to-awful classes in a row, combined with the loss of almost an entire class that would be all over the 1st and 2nd team as jr's and sr's now, has left us with a depleted roster worthy of a top-end MAC program. If you don't think that has an effect on ST's, well, I don't know what to tell you.
I don't think anyone is questioning that, but it seems the schemes by Okruch are. Even against a team like Howard the special teams were shaky. I don't care how bad things are you should be able to return kicks pass the 20 yard line. I'm willing to bet Rutgers gets a punt block more than once by the end of the season.
 
Top-end MAC Program...okay dude...here's some numbers for you...

Illinois Starting Offensive Lineup - COMPOSITE Recruiting Ratings of 84.26 with TWO WALKONS

Rutgers Starting Offensive Lineup - COMPOSITE Recruiting Ratings of 85.01 with no walkons and that includes Gio's recruit ratings

Yes recruit ratings don't tell you everything but its as best as I can do to show you that we do have talent

Never said there isn't some talent on our 1st team(s). That being said, as many of us have stated time-and-time-again, you might want to take a look at the lack of P5 offers our 1st and 2nd team guys had. We are seriously lacking in the talent department, depth-wise, not sure how on Earth you can argue against this fact.
 
BTW - I'm not thrilled with Okruch, either, but I'm not sure if it's fair to judge his ST's based on the roster situation.That's all I'm sayin'.
 
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Other teams are straight up more athletic than us. They're just outsprinting our coverage.

Spot-on! This is one of the slowest RU teams we've had in, well, over a decade, and it shows in a big way on ST's. I can't believe one poster, prior to the start of the season, attempted to claim we had "arguably the fastest WR group, DB's, and maybe even RB's and LB's, in the B1G." I spit my beer halfway across the apartment.
 
Other teams are straight up more athletic than us. They're just outsprinting our coverage.

That has nothing to do with bonehead ST play calling.
I saw in person at our opening game. Sending a kickoff directly to John Ross. Boom TD.
Sending a line drive Punt to their stud punt returner. Boom TD
How many times in the Michigan game were we called Illegal formation on Punts ? Two or three times.
Please, this coach is gone.
 
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That has nothing to do with bonehead ST play calling.
I saw in person at our opening game. Sending a kickoff directly to John Ross. Boom TD.
Sending a line drive Punt to their stud punt returner. Boom TD
How many times in the Michigan game were we called Illegal formation on Punts ? Two or three times.
Please, this coach is gone.

Our kickers and punters aren't good. Not sure why you would expect them to be able to put a ball into the end zone or kick away from a punt returner. They can't.
 
It's called "directional kicking " .
Any ST Coach with any common sense would use that with kicker deficiencies.
Please
 
It's called "directional kicking " .
Any ST Coach with any common sense would use that with kicker deficiencies.
Please
since grant went down i root for a touchback on kickoffs, we very rarely get the ball out to the 25 if we are running it out
 
We've had a SHIT-TON more than we have now, in the past, so let's not go there. This isn't rocket science. 4 lousy-to-awful classes in a row, combined with the loss of almost an entire class that would be all over the 1st and 2nd team as jr's and sr's now, has left us with a depleted roster worthy of a top-end MAC program. If you don't think that has an effect on ST's, well, I don't know what to tell you.
Excellent explanation for our lack of quality depth. Add transfers and players thrown off the team to the list.
 
:chairshot:Well both kicks went right to them both.​
That adjustment was not made until the 2nd half.
You can't make this shat up.
 
I'm pretty sure you've been blaming everything on coaching, and have refused to believe that we have a serious lack of talent, correct? ST's are just one of the many (and obvious) reasons you need QUALITY DEPTH up-and-down your roster.

Also Ash has a different philosophy as to who is on the special teams units versus what Flood and Schiano did. Ash has said players will not start on defense/ offense until they have started on special teams, where as Flood/ Schiano wanted the best 11 guys out there and had guys like Devin McCourty playing 100 plays per game between ST and Defense.
 
IMHO we DO NOT need to start playing "revolving door," with the coaching staff, yet again. My guess is that people wanting Drew and Vince fired, after this year, are going to be sorely disappointed.
 
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Also Ash has a different philosophy as to who is on the special teams units versus what Flood and Schiano did. Ash has said players will not start on defense/ offense until they have started on special teams, where as Flood/ Schiano wanted the best 11 guys out there and had guys like Devin McCourty playing 100 plays per game between ST and Defense.
I think this is why the special teams have been suspect this year. I give Schiano (& Flood) credit for not overlooking special teams. They account for a 1/3 of the game and can be the difference in being able to steal a game against a better opponent.
 
Special teams is one area that is based simply on coaching and discipline. For kickoffs stay in your lane and don't break the plane. Even 1AA talent should be able to execute kickoff coverage;
 
I think this is why the special teams have been suspect this year. I give Schiano (& Flood) credit for not overlooking special teams. They account for a 1/3 of the game and can be the difference in being able to steal a game against a better opponent.

True. Unfortunately I think what happens, when you have depth issues, is you either start the young kids and take your chances, you start your best kids and take chances, or you have to wait until you have enough kids in the system who make you feel comfortable on ST's but are not 1st team O or D yet.
 
Special teams is one area that is based simply on coaching and discipline. For kickoffs stay in your lane and don't break the plane. Even 1AA talent should be able to execute kickoff coverage;

Frank - we're not a fast team. though. I honestly believe this is hurting us a lot on ST's. Even Howard had more team speed then us. It's so obvious on ST's our guys are getting blown away.
 
Every coach needs to be given a mulligan for the way RU plays this season.
I'm not happy with the S/T and O play one bit, but I'll let the lack of talent argument sway me on Vince's coaching and feel this season is on the job training for Drew while using players that might not be the right fit for the way he wants to play offense and not experienced enough to help him overcome that.

Jay's DC ability is something I rally can't judge good or knock , because of the way the O's 3 and outs keeps them on the field and ST play isn't helping by pinning the opponents deep in their own territory.
Plus the D really needs a talent upgrade where depth is concerned

I question Ash and his staff's ability to make RU a winner because of how RU is playing, but feel they all deserve a mulligan from RU fans.
I will say they should be held responsible for their mistakes and not have everything blamed on someone else. But also know they have a lot to overcome before their efforts start showing positive results.
 
Every coach needs to be given a mulligan for the way RU plays this season.
I'm not happy with the S/T and O play one bit, but I'll let the lack of talent argument sway me on Vince's coaching and feel this season is on the job training for Drew while using players that might not be the right fit for the way he wants to play offense and not experienced enough to help him overcome that.

Jay's DC ability is something I rally can't judge good or knock , because of the way the O's 3 and outs keeps them on the field and ST play isn't helping by pinning the opponents deep in their own territory.
Plus the D really needs a talent upgrade where depth is concerned

I question Ash and his staff's ability to make RU a winner because of how RU is playing, .

This is an interesting comment and I get it. That being said if we were 4-3, with Laviano not leaving 21 points on the field against Iowa, and our O not turning the ball over and probably costing us the Illinois game, would you feel differently? Remember...we out-gained BOTH of those teams.
 
Everything wrong with this team is on Clyde Flood and Kerry Shea. If Rutgers gets beat up tomorrow it will be on the kids. Next year you will see a mob holding torches and pitchforks asking for both Hobbs and Ashes head.
 
It is hard to evaluate a coordinator with the talent level they are working with. I miss the old aggressive STs under Schiano (and the coat tails of it that Flood rode) but this is a different staff.

OP...have you even looked at who we have out their on STs? It's basically walk-ons, freshman and 2/3rd string players.
 
Everything wrong with this team is on Clyde Flood and Kerry Shea. If Rutgers gets beat up tomorrow it will be on the kids. Next year you will see a mob holding torches and pitchforks asking for both Hobbs and Ashes head.

Not even close. Most sane people understand this is a 3+ year project which, btw, was NOT the case when Flood took over for Greg.
 
Vince should be fired tomorrow.

Worst special teams I've seen in a decade.

And no it's not a talent issue. You don't have such a wild drop off from last year solely on talent. Statistically, we were actually decent last year.

This year, our special teams is historically bad.

And a lot of the blame also falls on Ash for deciding to not use a scholarship last minute on a kicking prospect or two. If he wasn't coaching a bowl, he might have seen just how bad our kicking options were...
 
I'm pretty sure you've been blaming everything on coaching, and have refused to believe that we have a serious lack of talent, correct? ST's are just one of the many (and obvious) reasons you need QUALITY DEPTH up-and-down your roster.

This - seriously how many times does this have to be posted. I think we have at least 3 walkons on the coverage units....not to mention we have a kicker whose kickoffs barely reach the 10 yard line. It's pathetic the lack of talent on specials. It's almost criminal what who we are having to play.
 
Saying that all of the special teams problems are related to the level of talent is like the prior post saying that the lack of competitiveness should not be blamed on cl. Just absolutely misguided.

The kick blocks games, the spacing on the kick off you could go on all day as to the schematic problems that have nothing to do with talent. Sure talent has a great effect and can be a neutralizer but when you have questionable talent bad schemes just make that talent level all the more amplified which iswhat we are seeing
 
The kicker can barely reach the 20-yard line what the hell do you want the special teams coach to do?
 
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The lack of strength from our kicker is so glaring that the coaches should consider instructing him to kick it out of bounds every time. We only lose about 5 yards of field position and eliminate the risk of injury or big returns. Had we done that all game this week, we would have won.
 
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Saying that all of the special teams problems are related to the level of talent is like the prior post saying that the lack of competitiveness should not be blamed on cl. Just absolutely misguided.

The kick blocks games, the spacing on the kick off you could go on all day as to the schematic problems that have nothing to do with talent. Sure talent has a great effect and can be a neutralizer but when you have questionable talent bad schemes just make that talent level all the more amplified which iswhat we are seeing


Wrong. Talent is HUGE part of the problem. Our ST's have slowly been getting worse the last few years. Not sure what you've been watching. Take out Grant and they would have been God-awful the last 2 years. Now...can the coaching improve? Sure it can.
 
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This is an interesting comment and I get it. That being said if we were 4-3, with Laviano not leaving 21 points on the field against Iowa, and our O not turning the ball over and probably costing us the Illinois game, would you feel differently? Remember...we out-gained BOTH of those teams.
Hard for me to say .
I've always looked for the positive arguing against the negative side.
Now I'm beginning to look for the negatives surrounding RU FB and it's coaching staff.
I'm not completely happy with them, but also understand a lot of that unhappiness is cause by my illustration over how this season is going and my feeling it won't get much better next season.
I'm not blaming Ash or his staff for the lack of talent they have to work with while changing the offensive and defensive strategies along with not having the talent needed to make Special Team play a strength instead of a negative.
I just feel they are learning to coach at the B1G level and that on the job training along with the roadblocks they need to overcome make judging them on how RU plays this season unfair to them. Especially since I'm looking more for negatives than positives and that makes me tend to question their coaching more than understanding the have to call plays they think the talent they have on the field can
do and not call plays that might be too hard for the players to do successfully.

Right now 'm fairly pleased with the way RU played Minny, but I think RU should have won and choked at the end.
Being an armchair HC, I blame everyone because I don't know if it was lack of talent that caused that or the coaching.
Or it could be ,I'm just wrong and placing blame where it shouldn't because I'm looking at things more negatively now.

( disclaimer: missed a lot of the game until the fourth quarter and even then had to do things that caused me to miss some plays)
 
Hard for me to say .
I've always looked for the positive arguing against the negative side.
Now I'm beginning to look for the negatives surrounding RU FB and it's coaching staff.
I'm not completely happy with them, but also understand a lot of that unhappiness is cause by my illustration over how this season is going and my feeling it won't get much better next season.
I'm not blaming Ash or his staff for the lack of talent they have to work with while changing the offensive and defensive strategies along with not having the talent needed to make Special Team play a strength instead of a negative.
I just feel they are learning to coach at the B1G level and that on the job training along with the roadblocks they need to overcome make judging them on how RU plays this season unfair to them. Especially since I'm looking more for negatives than positives and that makes me tend to question their coaching more than understanding the have to call plays they think the talent they have on the field can[cheers]
do and not call plays that might be too hard for the players to do successfully.

Right now 'm fairly pleased with the way RU played Minny, but I think RU should have won and choked at the end.
Being an armchair HC, I blame everyone because I don't know if it was lack of talent that caused that or the coaching.
Or it could be ,I just am wrong and placing blame where it shouldn't because I'm looking at things more negatively now.

RU "choked"? Yeah sit back with a few cold ones buddy I think you might need them lol!
 
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