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Watching Wednesday Snow to Rain Event Thread

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bac2therac

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Its been a sad year for snow lovers. It might get slightly better on Wednesday but at the moment its looking likely a mainly rain event for most with most of the accumulating snow confined to the usual suspects. Before we get to that, we should see some snow mixing in as the rain ends this afternoon but its really wet so no accumulations expected.

As usual models are all over the place so this forecast still has uncertainty. NAM as usual is revved up and colder and would give us the most potential for snow throughout the area 3-6 throughout central jersey and 8 to the north. Its the biggest outlier right now and not even the 3k NAM backs it up with basically nothing over central jersey and 2-4 to the north. The GFS is 2-4 verbatim for central jersey and up to 8 in the north. Keep in mind the Kuchera map is almost half these amounts 1-2 and maybe 4 to the north. The temps are going to be marginal..perhaps in the mid 30s. If precip is not coming down hard enough, accumulations will be tough. The CMC and RGEM have consistently been warm and almost all a rain event for most after just a touch of snow with no accumulation. Havent seen the Euro but it is more like the GFS from what I heard.

So be aware. We could have just a quick bit of snow that quickly turns to rain or we could have an inch or two or we could have slightly more. All the models do have the changeover to rain. Need to monitor the changing models.

Dan Zarrow

attachment-Storms-5-and-6-20230123-v2.jpg


Wednesday​

Here comes our next storm system. And it looks both complicated and potentially messy. Although I do want to stress it is not currently shaping up to be a "major" winter storm.

It all begins between mid-morning and midday on Wednesday. Our latest forecast suggests that temperatures will likely be cold enough for a few hours of snow and/or icy mix. Especially away from our coastal counties — along and north of I-195, and along and west of I-295.


Areas to the north and west could even see "a few" inches of accumulation, on the order of 3 or 4. That's enough to cause some tricky travel troubles Wednesday, especially given the middle-of-the-day timing. If this forecast holds, I fully expect to see advisories issued for most of the state once it gets closer.

Warmer air will penetrate our atmosphere Wednesday afternoon, forcing a transition to all rain. Yes, all 21 counties of New Jersey should flip from wintry to just wet by Wednesday evening. Temperatures will eventually push into the 50s Wednesday night, with pockets of heavy rain possible.

Note: We are still 48 hours away from first flakes, which leaves plenty of room for this storm track to "wiggle" and evolve. The impacts here are very much temperature dependent, which makes the forecast even more shaky. We will keep you updated regularly on the latest forecast updates, all the way through Wednesday's sloppiness.


 
latest Mt holly disco

Attention in the short term remains focused on the system forecast
to impact the region Wednesday through Wednesday night, bringing
another round of widespread precipitation and breezy to windy
conditions to the area. A closed mid-level low across the Southwest
is expected to open and eject northeastward Tuesday through
Wednesday. This will result in cyclogenesis across the Deep South on
Tuesday, with the surface low intensifying and tracking into the
Ohio Valley by late Wednesday. A secondary surface low is
anticipated develop in the vicinity of the fall line or Mid-Atlantic
coast by late Wednesday as well, which will have implications on the
impacts to the forecast area.

Precipitation is expected to spread into the area after daybreak
Wednesday, reaching peak intensity and coverage likely sometime
Wednesday afternoon and/or evening. The timing of the precipitation
onset (related to the development of the secondary surface low) will
dictate the evolution of the precipitation types across the area. It
still appears that areas northwest of I-95 will likely start out as
a period of snow before mixing with and changing to all rain
sometime during the afternoon or evening. Portions of this area may
also see a mix with sleet and/or freezing rain as the warm nose
surges north, especially in the southern Poconos where surface
temperatures will remain near or below freezing the longest. The
greatest uncertainty right now is areas along and southeast of I-95,
which could start as a quick burst of snow as precipitation begins.
This would be especially the case if precipitation moves in faster
during the morning hours. Even if snow does occur at the onset long
the I-95 corridor, surface temperatures may be too warm for any
accumulations (especially on roadways). However, a quick dusting on
grassy and elevated surfaces cannot be entirely ruled out yet.

Impacts from snowfall near and southeast of I-95 remain unlikely.
From a pattern recognition perspective, there will be no cold air
damming from the strong high to our north to lock in any cold air
near the surface. Thus, temperatures appear likely to warm above
freezing shortly after daybreak as warm advection ramps up in the
southeast flow. So even if snow occurs, I think it will struggle to
accumulate southeast of I-95. Northwest of I-95 will be a different
story though, as colder air will remain entrenched at the surface
for longer. Accumulating snow may impact the Wednesday evening
commute in these areas (especially north of I-78), but details on
timing, exact amounts, and southern extent of accumulating snow
toward the I-95 corridor remain unclear at this time.

However the precipitation types evolve, a change to all rain is
expected across the entire area by late Wednesday evening or
overnight in the higher elevations of the southern Poconos and
northwest New Jersey. Some freezing rain is possible in the higher
elevations as the warm nose arrival may precede the surface
temperatures warming above freezing by a few hours. However, the
thermal profiles currently support a mainly rain/snow event for our
area with limited amount of wintry mix currently anticipated outside
of the higher elevations. We are currently forecasting snowfall
totals around 3-5" along the I-78 corridor and in the 6-8" range
with up to one tenth of an inch of ice in the southern Poconos. It
is important to note that an faster surge north of the warm nose
could sharply reduce these snow totals due to more mixed
precipitation or switch over to rain.

Storm total rainfall amounts of 1-2" are forecast, with the highest
amounts most likely across the coastal plains of New Jersey and
Delmarva. This will be due to some elevated instability anticipated
to develop, which should add some convectively enhanced
precipitation totals and rates. While it has been relatively dry
recently, some minor flooding could result from the moderate to
heavy rainfall. Some thunder is possible with this activity as well.
Precipitation will be moving out of the area by daybreak Thursday.

Temperatures will be rising from daybreak Wednesday through much of
the nighttime period, reaching into the low 50s across the coastal
plain and into the 40s between I-95 and I-78. Breezy east to
southeast winds will develop during this time as well, reaching a
peak during the late evening as the secondary low races north.
Across the coastal plain and higher terrain, winds should increase
to around 15-25 mph with gusts of 35-45 mph possible. The winds will
be strongest along the coast, where a Wind Advisory may need to be
considered if confidence increases on gusts up to 50 mph. As the low
pushes northeast of the area, winds will quickly shift to the
southwest then west in the predawn hours, increasing to around 15-25
mph again with gusts up to 35 mph.
 
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Local Philly news said today that at this time in the winter we normally would have 8.3 inches of snow, yet officially this winters total is just a trace and even that is questionable.
Even with the warmer weather this winter the days have mostly stunk, like today. Dreary day! Cloudy and many rainy days this month so far.
 
Local Philly news said today that at this time in the winter we normally would have 8.3 inches of snow, yet officially this winters total is just a trace and even that is questionable.
Even with the warmer weather this winter the days have mostly stunk, like today. Dreary day! Cloudy and many rainy days this month so far.
yeah and down in Philly they might not even see a flake at all with Wednesdays event
 
yeah and down in Philly they might not even see a flake at all with Wednesdays event
The local NWS updated a bit ago says this for Belmar-Farmingdale (seems the temps will warm from Tuesday night into Wednesday and then remain in the 40's into Wednesday night, but then get into the 20s on Thursday):

Wednesday
A chance of rain and snow before 10am, then rain. High near 43. North wind 5 to 15 mph becoming southeast in the afternoon. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New snow accumulation of less than a half inch possible.


Wednesday Night
Rain and possibly a thunderstorm before 4am, then a chance of rain. Some of the storms could produce heavy rainfall. Low around 43. Windy. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New rainfall amounts between 1 and 2 inches possible.
 
should not be a big event for most if you are south of I 78. Yes some snow even down to the I 95 corridor at the start but likely too light and warm to stick to anything but grassy surfaces at first. The usual suspects to the north could get on accumulations and you guys know who you are. Everything should turn to all rain everywhere during the afternoon and early evening to the north

looking for start time late morning or around noon but that is not set in stone
 
Boston has been getting hammered with snow recently. Was on a video call with someone up there yesterday around 2, and he took his laptop to the window to show the snow falling outside.
 
Boston has been getting hammered with snow recently. Was on a video call with someone up there yesterday around 2, and he took his laptop to the window to show the snow falling outside.
They're still way below normal to date. They have 5.3" so far this season including yesterday's 2.3" snowfall vs. 19.3" normally to this date. Through 1/15 almost everywhere in the eastern US, except for Buffalo and a few other lake effect areas, is below to well below normal, as per the graphic below, including goose eggs for NYC, Philly, Baltimore and DC.

And very little in sight through the end of January for the 95 corridor from DC to Boston (with Boston having some chance for a couple of inches, but likely <1" to nada for DC to NYC), although Wednesday's storm should bring a moderate to significant snowfall for interior locations from the Poconos to far NWNJ (but even changing to rain in these locations) and significant to maybe major snowfall (8"+) to the Catskills and interior New England.

https://www.nbcboston.com/weather/can-we-make-up-our-snowfall-deficit/2952486/

5LHb5rt.png
 
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Who complains about no snow in the metro area anyways? Snow plower guys and collision repair guys. No snow, great , keep it up.
 
Just got in from plowing our (steep) driveway and a bit of our road where it's a dicey switchback turn. Had about 6" fall yesterday here above Boone NC. Temps up some today but will fall overnight well below freezing, with more winter precip expected on and off over the next few days. Our typical "thaw and freeze" cycle can make for challenging driving, even without any new snowfall. Comes with the territory. Not complaining. Just sharing.
 
Its been a sad year for snow lovers. It might get slightly better on Wednesday but at the moment its looking likely a mainly rain event for most with most of the accumulating snow confined to the usual suspects. Before we get to that, we should see some snow mixing in as the rain ends this afternoon but its really wet so no accumulations expected.

As usual models are all over the place so this forecast still has uncertainty. NAM as usual is revved up and colder and would give us the most potential for snow throughout the area 3-6 throughout central jersey and 8 to the north. Its the biggest outlier right now and not even the 3k NAM backs it up with basically nothing over central jersey and 2-4 to the north. The GFS is 2-4 verbatim for central jersey and up to 8 in the north. Keep in mind the Kuchera map is almost half these amounts 1-2 and maybe 4 to the north. The temps are going to be marginal..perhaps in the mid 30s. If precip is not coming down hard enough, accumulations will be tough. The CMC and RGEM have consistently been warm and almost all a rain event for most after just a touch of snow with no accumulation. Havent seen the Euro but it is more like the GFS from what I heard.

So be aware. We could have just a quick bit of snow that quickly turns to rain or we could have an inch or two or we could have slightly more. All the models do have the changeover to rain. Need to monitor the changing models.

Dan Zarrow

attachment-Storms-5-and-6-20230123-v2.jpg


Wednesday​

Here comes our next storm system. And it looks both complicated and potentially messy. Although I do want to stress it is not currently shaping up to be a "major" winter storm.

It all begins between mid-morning and midday on Wednesday. Our latest forecast suggests that temperatures will likely be cold enough for a few hours of snow and/or icy mix. Especially away from our coastal counties — along and north of I-195, and along and west of I-295.


Areas to the north and west could even see "a few" inches of accumulation, on the order of 3 or 4. That's enough to cause some tricky travel troubles Wednesday, especially given the middle-of-the-day timing. If this forecast holds, I fully expect to see advisories issued for most of the state once it gets closer.

Warmer air will penetrate our atmosphere Wednesday afternoon, forcing a transition to all rain. Yes, all 21 counties of New Jersey should flip from wintry to just wet by Wednesday evening. Temperatures will eventually push into the 50s Wednesday night, with pockets of heavy rain possible.

Note: We are still 48 hours away from first flakes, which leaves plenty of room for this storm track to "wiggle" and evolve. The impacts here are very much temperature dependent, which makes the forecast even more shaky. We will keep you updated regularly on the latest forecast updates, all the way through Wednesday's sloppiness.


If #’s started this thread, he would have been destroyed. Just saying….
 
Winter not going well for the snow people yet:

487b5f17-ccde-46e9-bd3f-daa300f0276e_text.gif
Did I miss your posts lambasting bac for his likely bust on the I-95 forecast and elsewhere? He posted 1-2" likely yesterday (including 2 sources saying that and models), but has now backed off to little to no snow, as the models have evolved and we've gotten closer to the event. Or is it - gasp! - that you only troll my weather posts and nobody else's? I think we all know the answer to that.

By the way, bac, no issue at all with this thread - you've presented the info, forecasts, and model output quite well. Things change, it's meteorology. I'm just not interested in starting weather threads any more at least for awhile. As per my post on 33, the nuttiest thing I've maybe ever seen with models is today's 12Z GFS, which shows more snow for Wilmington/Philly (2.3") than for Scranton and Middletown, NY (1-2") - never seen anything like that verify, ever.

GFS way out to lunch, which is why the smart money is for maybe a dusting to a coating for Philly to NYC and along 95, as per most models now, before a lot of rain (1-2" for most), which will likely bring some urban and small stream flooding, given lots of recent rains; some minor coastal flooding is likely with the Weds night high tide.
 
If #’s started this thread, he would have been destroyed. Just saying….
Especially for posting a thread about no snow at all for the 95 corridor, as I just posted. Kind of fun to not be the one starting the thread, lol. It is why banning the trolls from these threads, like they used to do a few years ago, would make them a lot better for 95% of our posters. Some like to see a thread train wreck for reasons that are beyond me, though...
 
Did I miss your posts lambasting bac for his likely bust on the I-95 forecast and elsewhere? He posted 1-2" likely yesterday (including 2 sources saying that and models), but has now backed off to little to no snow, as the models have evolved and we've gotten closer to the event. Or is it - gasp! - that you only troll my weather posts and nobody else's? I think we all know the answer to that.

By the way, bac, no issue at all with this thread - you've presented the info, forecasts, and model output quite well. Things change, it's meteorology. I'm just not interested in starting weather threads any more at least for awhile. As per my post on 33, the nuttiest thing I've maybe ever seen with models is today's 12Z GFS, which shows more snow for Wilmington/Philly (2.3") than for Scranton and Middletown, NY (1-2") - never seen anything like that verify, ever.

GFS way out to lunch, which is why the smart money is for maybe a dusting to a coating for Philly to NYC and along 95, as per most models now, before a lot of rain (1-2" for most), which will likely bring some urban and small stream flooding, given lots of recent rains; some minor coastal flooding is likely with the Weds night high tide.


nope never said likely...here is my summary last paragraph

So be aware. We could have just a quick bit of snow that quickly turns to rain or we could have an inch or two or we could have slightly more. All the models do have the changeover to rain. Need to monitor the changing models.
 
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Especially for posting a thread about no snow at all for the 95 corridor, as I just posted. Kind of fun to not be the one starting the thread, lol. It is why banning the trolls from these threads, like they used to do a few years ago, would make them a lot better for 95% of our posters. Some like to see a thread train wreck for reasons that are beyond me, though...
a general heads up on a possible snow event 48 hours which had models showing measurable snowfall was prudent

key here is it wasnt starting 5-7 days in advance where you hyped up possible major snowstorms when you know the models are absolute garbage more than 3 days out
 
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nope never said likely...here is my summary last paragraph

So be aware. We could have just a quick bit of snow that quickly turns to rain or we could have an inch or two or we could have slightly more. All the models do have the changeover to rain. Need to monitor the changing models.
Yes, but you posted Zarrow's complete forecast showing a coating to 2" for most of CNJ and the NWS map, which also showed 1-2" for much of CNJ, so the implication was for 1-2" in general, which is what I've said elsewhere based on the info yesterday. I already gave you props - just own what you presented. My only point here, really, is that T and a few others would have excoriated me if I had started this thread 2 days out, but they give you a pass, because they're trolls who go after me and not you, for obvious reasons I don't think I need to go into.

Also, I don't really care when you start the thread - within 5 days is reasonable when there's a very strong potentially major threat - and every major snowstorm we've had in the last 20 years had a thread I started in the 4-5 day out range, while of course a few busted. For minor events like this one, I'd normally start a thread 3 days out, not 5 days out. But again, I don't think it matters much. You do. Whatever.
 
I am laser focused on Feb 2-3.
Me too, as we're flying out of EWR on the afternoon of 2/3. Right now, models are showing some chance of a significant system moving in on 2/2 into 2/3 (looks like mostly rain), but that's still 10 days away, so absolutely not worth worrying about yet, as there are dozens of storms every year 10 days out that never verify at all (whereas major storms 5 days out will often at least verify, roughly, for total precip, but snow vs. rain amounts might be way off still).
 
I like knowing events 10 days out. I can take the information and file it in the low confidence folder. I can make the decision to create the folder or wait a few days.
Even though there is huge uncertainty on 10-day forecasts, getting the trends right (cold/warm, dry/wet) is somewhat doable that far out, which is how quite a few very good pro mets make a killing working for companies that try to foresee markets affected by the weather, like commodities, as I know you know. DT/WxRisk, whose forecasts I've posted here a lot over the years, makes his $$ that way.
 
Who complains about no snow in the metro area anyways? Snow plower guys and collision repair guys. No snow, great , keep it up.
When we don't get snow, the ski resorts usually don't get much snow, as has been the case this winter, so that's a major industry that depends on snow. Plus there are more than a few folks who simply love snow for things like sledding, snowshoeing, snowmobiling and such, and just because it's awesomely beautiful.
 
I dislike snow & cold / cloudy weather about as much as I loathe Penn State & UF

Decided a few years ago no more shoveling / snow blower

Absent of a neighborhood kid fleecing me on price then dumping snow on a bush and nearly ruining it, it’s worked out pretty good
 
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Lastest Mt Holly disco...

SHORT TERM /6 AM WEDNESDAY MORNING THROUGH THURSDAY NIGHT/...
Overall no significant changes to the forecast for the storm that
will affect the area Wednesday into Thursday morning. A potent storm
system will bring widespread precipitation and breezy to windy
conditions to the area. A closed mid-level low across the Southwest
is expected to open and eject northeastward today through Wednesday.
This will result in cyclogenesis across the Deep South today, with
the primary surface low intensifying and tracking into the Ohio
Valley by late Wednesday. A secondary surface low is anticipated
develop in the vicinity of the fall line east of the Appalachians by
late Wednesday as well, which will have implications on the overall
precipitation type/timing and impacts to the forecast area.
Precipitation is expected to spread into the area around or shortly
after daybreak Wednesday. The Poconos will likely be the first to
see snow before the precip shield overspreads the rest of the area
from west to east and reaches peak intensity and coverage likely
sometime Wednesday afternoon or evening.

The most recent suite of guidance still indicates that areas
northwest of I-95 will likely start out as a period of snow, then a
wintry mix, and finally changing to all rain sometime during the
afternoon/early evening. The exception will be in Poconos and
northwest New Jersey where they will remain as all snow for a longer
period before changing over to all rain on Wednesday night. The
wintry mix for portions of this area will likely be with sleet
and/or freezing rain as the warm nose surges north, especially in
the southern Poconos and far northwest New Jersey where surface
temperatures will remain near or below freezing the longest. The
period of ice shouldn`t last quite as long as it did with the storm
earlier this week and overall ice totals are expected to be less.
Accumulating snow is anticipated to impact the Wednesday morning
and/or evening commutes in this area (with the highest amounts north
of I-78). A Winter Weather Advisory remains in effect from 7 AM
Wednesday into Wednesday evening for the counties north of I-78
including Lehigh and Berks. This is the area that we have highest
confidence in impacts from snow. The greatest uncertainty in the
precip type evolution for this region is between I-78 and I-95,
which should start as a quick burst of snow as precipitation begins.
A bit of dry air near and above the surface will result in a quick
period of wet-bulbing while warm advection rises surface
temperatures. The result could be a very brief period of snow for
this region, and if snow does occur at the onset, surface
temperatures will likely warm too quickly for any impactful
accumulations aside from a coating on untreated surfaces.

Impacts from snowfall south and east of I-95 are unlikely. From a
pattern recognition perspective, there will be no cold air damming
from the strong high to our north to lock in any cold air near the
surface. Thus, temperatures appear likely to warm above freezing
shortly after daybreak as warm advection ramps up in the southeast
flow. Thus, this will again be a rain event south and east of I-95.

We are currently forecasting snowfall totals around 3-5" in the
southern Poconos with up to one tenth of an inch of ice. Northwest
New Jersey and into the Lehigh Valley is forecast to receive 1 to 3
inches, with the greater amounts and potential for a glaze of ice in
the higher elevations of Sussex, Warren, Morris, and Northampton
Counties. Farther west into Lehigh and Berks Counties, snow total
are forecast to remain a bit lower in the 1 to 2 inch range, with
higher elevations possibly up to 3 inches. However, a period of
higher snowfall rates potentially exceeding 1 inch per hour (a burst
of snow) and implications of the impacts to the Wednesday morning
commute are enough to justify an advisory for this area as well
despite technically falling just shy of criteria. A faster surge
north of the warm nose could reduce these snow totals some due to
more mixed precipitation or switch over to rain.
 
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