Wetzel: Why NCAA shouldn't punish Baylor football after latest scandal

[Knight Shift]

Spicoli said it best:

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-n...-latest-depraved-scandal-002053224-ncaaf.html

And in that vein, let this be a time to pause for all those howling for the NCAA to come in and sanction the Baylor football team. When dealing with unreported or essentially covered-up sexual assaults, NCAA bylaws just don't seem too important. Or they shouldn't.

If everyone agrees that football became too central of a focus, then isn’t handling this scandal via football penalties just an exacerbation of the problem?

This is a criminal matter, a civil matter, a Department of Education matter and, most importantly, a matter that victims of the players will struggle to deal with for the rest of their lives. It’s serious. It’s sickening. It’s societal.

To boil it down to a decrease in grants of aid or recruiting visits is to trivialize it even further. For a moment, just forget about football.

The NCAA tried this with Penn State and since then my thinking has changed. The actions of Jerry Sandusky were horrific, but removed from the emotions of the day, penalizing a football team for such criminal depravity was the NCAA trying to seize a moral high ground.

It’s unlikely it caused much healing among Sandusky’s victims. Instead, it missed the point. If Penn State allowed football to get too big, then why honor that by making Penn State football the target. If anything it galvanized some fans who sadly used the sanctions to play the victim card, like going 10-2 rather than 7-5 is some kind of inalienable right.

The NCAA struggles to handle simple tasks. It is out of its element wading into a case with this level of severity and sensitivity. You can argue Baylor gained a competitive edge from not properly dealing with these assaults but let their punishment be that horrible realization.

 

[biazza38]

I'm pretty sure covering up rape falls under "lack of institutional control," but what do I know

 

[FanuSanu52]

Yeah, that premise is all kinds of off, and he sounds like a big Baylor homer starting off with a really cool story about watching the game with Starr.

If football is so big that it causes such horrible problems, the solution is to let that "horrible realization" (that no one is thinking about because they're too concerned with football) serve as punishment? And punishing the football program just adds to the problem? No, if the football program is so big that it causes so-called professionals to overlook and bury things as serious as these, then football needs to get - be made - smaller.

I never liked that chowder-headed doofus Wetzel, but now I kind of despise him.

 

[Rutgers25]

Spicoli said it best:

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-n...-latest-depraved-scandal-002053224-ncaaf.html

And in that vein, let this be a time to pause for all those howling for the NCAA to come in and sanction the Baylor football team. When dealing with unreported or essentially covered-up sexual assaults, NCAA bylaws just don't seem too important. Or they shouldn't.

If everyone agrees that football became too central of a focus, then isn’t handling this scandal via football penalties just an exacerbation of the problem?

This is a criminal matter, a civil matter, a Department of Education matter and, most importantly, a matter that victims of the players will struggle to deal with for the rest of their lives. It’s serious. It’s sickening. It’s societal.

To boil it down to a decrease in grants of aid or recruiting visits is to trivialize it even further. For a moment, just forget about football.

The NCAA tried this with Penn State and since then my thinking has changed. The actions of Jerry Sandusky were horrific, but removed from the emotions of the day, penalizing a football team for such criminal depravity was the NCAA trying to seize a moral high ground.

It’s unlikely it caused much healing among Sandusky’s victims. Instead, it missed the point. If Penn State allowed football to get too big, then why honor that by making Penn State football the target. If anything it galvanized some fans who sadly used the sanctions to play the victim card, like going 10-2 rather than 7-5 is some kind of inalienable right.

The NCAA struggles to handle simple tasks. It is out of its element wading into a case with this level of severity and sensitivity. You can argue Baylor gained a competitive edge from not properly dealing with these assaults but let their punishment be that horrible realization.

Bizarre logic

 

[MozRU]

When you don't do the right thing to keep the sport's train moving forward the NCAA better hammer any program.

I am tired of men committing crimes for football.

Those who disagree, I don't understand what is wrong with you. So if it has to do with academics only, the NCAA can hammer a program. If the one's in charge commit crime to benefit an athletic program, that athletic program should keep pushing ahead?

What is wrong with you people?

 

[JoeRU0304]

When you don't do the right thing to keep the sport's train moving forward the NCAA better hammer any program.

I am tired of men committing crimes for football.

Those who disagree, I don't understand what is wrong with you. So if it has to do with academics only, the NCAA can hammer a program. If the one's in charge commit crime to benefit an athletic program, that athletic program should keep pushing ahead?

What is wrong with you people?

NAILED IT...but don't hold your breath waiting for the NCAA to do the right thing.


Joe P.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

I agree with Wetzel's overall point that the NCAA is a largely incompetent organization that should be concerned with enforcing its own rules correctly, rather than those of the United States, and not play to the moral compass of the media and social media mob. That said, if the actions of members of Baylor's athletic department protected active football players, therefore allowing them to stay on the field and contribute to winning games, I think that at least opens the door for a formal NCAA investigation.

 

[Knight Shift]

I agree with Wetzel's overall point that the NCAA is a largely incompetent organization that should be concerned with enforcing its own rules correctly, rather than those of the United States, and not play to the moral compass of the media and social media mob. That said, if the actions of members of Baylor's athletic department protected active football players, therefore allowing them to stay on the field and contribute to winning games, I think that at least opens the door for a formal NCAA investigation.

That said, if the actions of members of PSU's athletic department, such as Coach Paterno and other coaches, protected Sandusky, therefore allowing them to stay focused on the field and contribute to winning games, many people outside of Happy Valley think that at least warrants NCAA sanctions.

 

[krup]

When you don't do the right thing to keep the sport's train moving forward the NCAA better hammer any program.

I am tired of men committing crimes for football.

Those who disagree, I don't understand what is wrong with you. So if it has to do with academics only, the NCAA can hammer a program. If the one's in charge commit crime to benefit an athletic program, that athletic program should keep pushing ahead?

What is wrong with you people?

The logic of the "this is beyond the cope of the NCAA" people in cases like this and Penn State escapes me completely.

If a doctor is raping patients or a lawyer murdering clients, yes it is law enforcement's job to deal with the felonies, but that doesn't mean the doctor shouldn't lose his medical license or the lawyer not be disbarred because the crimes are "too big". Just like in those examples the NCAA should, as you said, levy the hammer for the part where they do have jurisdiction.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

That said, if the actions of members of PSU's athletic department, such as Coach Paterno and other coaches, protected Sandusky, therefore allowing them to stay focused on the field and contribute to winning games, many people outside of Happy Valley think that at least warrants NCAA sanctions.

Except for the fact that the McQueary incident and everything that followed happened after Sandusky was a former assistant. Even if you choose to believe the 1970s allegations, they were unknown and thus irrelevant when discussing the Penn State sanctions.

Also, ICYMI, the perjury charge against Curley was recently dropped. That means no one at Penn State will ultimately be charged with a felony. And the administrators now face penalties on par with a speeding ticket, based upon a loose interpretation of the law.

Not everything here should devolve into a Penn State thread, though, so back to Baylor...

 

[Knight Ed]

Covering up rapes and assaults like Paterno and Penn State did to further your football team interests should absolutely come under the jurisdiction of the NCAA.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

The logic of the "this is beyond the cope of the NCAA" people in cases like this and Penn State escapes me completely.

If a doctor is raping patients or a lawyer murdering clients, yes it is law enforcement's job to deal with the felonies, but that doesn't mean the doctor shouldn't lose his medical license or the lawyer not be disbarred because the crimes are "too big". Just like in those examples the NCAA should, as you said, levy the hammer for the part where they do have jurisdiction.

At the very least what went on at Baylor, if true, seems to fly in the face of the new NCAA guidelines on reporting abuse.

 

[jay_hq]

I'm pretty sure covering up rape falls under "lack of institutional control," but what do I know

To be fair they were fully in control.

They made sure it was covered up.

 

[Knight Shift]

Except for the fact that the McQueary incident and everything that followed happened after Sandusky was a former assistant. Even if you choose to believe the 1970s allegations, they were unknown and thus irrelevant when discussing the Penn State sanctions.

Also, ICYMI, the perjury charge against Curley was recently dropped. That means no one at Penn State will ultimately be charged with a felony. And the administrators now face penalties on par with a speeding ticket, based upon a loose interpretation of the law.

Not everything here should devolve into a Penn State thread, though, so back to Baylor...

Yeah, but you are a Penn State fan weighing in on a similar situation, and the article mentions Penn State as a guide. Regardless of whether anyone at PSU gets their criminal charges dismissed (remember OJ), the stink from Happy Valley is strong. Why did Joe Paterknow say he "should have done more" about Sandusky before he passed away? Sounds like a guy with a guilty conscience.

The football program did not want to be distracted by a scandal, and they did nothing. Joe's words are very telling.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Yeah, but you are a Penn State fan weighing in on a similar situation, and the article mentions Penn State as a guide. Regardless of whether anyone at PSU gets their criminal charges dismissed (remember OJ), the stink from Happy Valley is strong. Why did Joe Paterknow say he "should have done more" about Sandusky before he passed away? Sounds like a guy with a guilty conscience.

The football program did not want to be distracted by a scandal, and they did nothing. Joe's words are very telling.

"With the benefit of hindsight..."

Time will tell, as all of these trials play out and more of the key players take the stand, whether that stink is emanating from State College or Harrisburg.

 

[miketd1]

Except for the fact that the McQueary incident and everything that followed happened after Sandusky was a former assistant. Even if you choose to believe the 1970s allegations, they were unknown and thus irrelevant when discussing the Penn State sanctions.

Also, ICYMI, the perjury charge against Curley was recently dropped. That means no one at Penn State will ultimately be charged with a felony. And the administrators now face penalties on par with a speeding ticket, based upon a loose interpretation of the law.

Not everything here should devolve into a Penn State thread, though, so back to Baylor...

Vegas, I need your help with this (your most vocal cohorts on the BWI site aren't willing to engage in civil, rational discussion).

1998 incident - email found: "Coach is anxious to know where this stands," I am going to make the assumption that "Coach" is Paterno. This is the most logical conclusion. To disagree would be absolutely moronic. IMO, Paterno is at least now aware that Sandusky might be doing improper things with little boys.
2001 incident (or 2002, depending on which version you believe) - Mike McQueary told Paterno he had witnessed Sandusky doing something improper with a boy in the Penn State football building shower. According to Paterno, he was told something of a "horsing around" nature was going on. According to McQueary's testimony, Mike was more specific in his description. Either way, we should note that Paterno reported the incident (whatever it was) to Curley and Schultz. This is the reason Paterno was never charged with a crime.

Why I believe Paterno -- while not legally liable -- dropped the ball from a moral standpoint: Assuming Paterno is "Coach" in the 1998 email, he now knows at a minimum: 1.) Sandusky was previously investigated for improper activity with a male minor in 1998 and 2.) his former star QB just witnessed something of that nature.

IMO: He should have at this point realized that a potentially massive conflict of interest existed if he simply followed protocol to report this info up to Curley and Shultz. I would say that in addition to reporting to Curley and Shultz, Paterno should have gone with Mike directly to law enforcement not affiliated in any way with PSU (to avoid conflict of interest) so Mike could go ahead and file a formal report. Additionally, Paterno should have mentioned to the assigned case investigator everything he knew regarding the 1998 incident.

Folks on the BWI board seem to be content with Joe following protocol. They can't conceive that Joe failed many kids by hiding behind a bunch of legalese and red tape.

 

[lyndj]

"With the benefit of hindsight..."

Time will tell, as all of these trials play out and more of the key players take the stand, whether that stink is emanating from State College or Harrisburg.

Cheesesteak Vegas, don't bother explaining the quote, it's been out there for the world to see since 2011. You will NEVER get the RU faithful to hear your points because they've covered their ears back in 2011. Recognize when you are talking to a cement wall. There isn't a PSU story out there that they wouldn't put a negative spin on somehow, someway (even THON) but they've seemed to move on quite quickly from Their criminal activity and that's okay even though both schools got rid of those involved. They've been holding on to this vitriol for 5 years already, it will continue. Anytime something remotely negative happens at any other school, they act like kids in a candy store because they take pleasure in others misery. Life is too short people.

Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!

 

[PatrickRU92]

The NCAA tried this with Penn State and since then my thinking has changed. The actions of Jerry Sandusky were horrific, but removed from the emotions of the day, penalizing a football team for such criminal depravity was the NCAA trying to seize a moral high ground.

It’s unlikely it caused much healing among Sandusky’s victims. Instead, it missed the point. If Penn State allowed football to get too big, then why honor that by making Penn State football the target.

What kind of horseshit is this? does this guy subscribe to the cult?

No, dumbass, its exactly WHY you punish these schools. Its the CULTURE of "Football above all !!" that led to these scandals. that is exactly why to punish these schools you take away FOOTBALL.

It "missed the point" at State Penn because they weren't punished. If they had to cease football operation for a couple of years to contemplate their football first culture, they would have learned their lesson. But alas, the toothless NCAA gave them their slap on the wrist and they didn't miss a beat.

 

[krup]

Cheesesteak Vegas, don't bother explaining the quote, it's been out there for the world to see since 2011. You will NEVER get the RU faithful to hear your points because they've covered their ears back in 2011. Recognize when you are talking to a cement wall. There isn't a PSU story out there that they wouldn't put a negative spin on somehow, someway (even THON) but they've seemed to move on quite quickly from Their criminal activity and that's okay even though both schools got rid of those involved. They've been holding on to this vitriol for 5 years already, it will continue. Anytime something remotely negative happens at any other school, they act like kids in a candy store because they take pleasure in others misery. Life is too short people.

Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!

It shows how delusional PSU fans are that they think the Paterno story needs "spin" to make him look bad.

 

[Knight Shift]

Cheesesteak Vegas, don't bother explaining the quote, it's been out there for the world to see since 2011. You will NEVER get the RU faithful to hear your points because they've covered their ears back in 2011. Recognize when you are talking to a cement wall. There isn't a PSU story out there that they wouldn't put a negative spin on somehow, someway (even THON) but they've seemed to move on quite quickly from Their criminal activity and that's okay even though both schools got rid of those involved. They've been holding on to this vitriol for 5 years already, it will continue. Anytime something remotely negative happens at any other school, they act like kids in a candy store because they take pleasure in others misery. Life is too short people.

Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!

Dude. . . . . Can't even begin to count the things that are wrong with your post. It's not just RU faithful. It's nearly everyone outside the myopic PSU world.

 

[JoeRU0304]

Cheesesteak Vegas, don't bother explaining the quote, it's been out there for the world to see since 2011. You will NEVER get the RU faithful to hear your points because they've covered their ears back in 2011. Recognize when you are talking to a cement wall. There isn't a PSU story out there that they wouldn't put a negative spin on somehow, someway (even THON) but they've seemed to move on quite quickly from Their criminal activity and that's okay even though both schools got rid of those involved. They've been holding on to this vitriol for 5 years already, it will continue. Anytime something remotely negative happens at any other school, they act like kids in a candy store because they take pleasure in others misery. Life is too short people.

Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!

...actually, when something goes awry at Rutgers, I doubt you'll find a group of fans/alumni who are tougher on their own school than Rutgers. We also don't bow down in front of statues of coaches either..but you can keep going on with the Pope Pious act if it makes you feel better.


Joe P.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Vegas, I need your help with this (your most vocal cohorts on the BWI site aren't willing to engage in civil, rational discussion).

1998 incident - email found: "Coach is anxious to know where this stands," I am going to make the assumption that "Coach" is Paterno. This is the most logical conclusion. To disagree would be absolutely moronic. IMO, Paterno is at least now aware that Sandusky might be doing improper things with little boys.
2001 incident (or 2002, depending on which version you believe) - Mike McQueary told Paterno he had witnessed Sandusky doing something improper with a boy in the Penn State football building shower. According to Paterno, he was told something of a "horsing around" nature was going on. According to McQueary's testimony, Mike was more specific in his description. Either way, we should note that Paterno reported the incident (whatever it was) to Curley and Schultz. This is the reason Paterno was never charged with a crime.

Why I believe Paterno -- while not legally liable -- dropped the ball from a moral standpoint: Assuming Paterno is "Coach" in the 1998 email, he now knows at a minimum: 1.) Sandusky was previously investigated for improper activity with a male minor in 1998 and 2.) his former star QB just witnessed something of that nature.

IMO: He should have at this point realized that a potentially massive conflict of interest existed if he simply followed protocol to report this info up to Curley and Shultz. I would say that in addition to reporting to Curley and Shultz, Paterno should have gone with Mike directly to law enforcement not affiliated in any way with PSU (to avoid conflict of interest) so Mike could go ahead and file a formal report. Additionally, Paterno should have mentioned to the assigned case investigator everything he knew regarding the 1998 incident.

Folks on the BWI board seem to be content with Joe following protocol. They can't conceive that Joe failed many kids by hiding behind a bunch of legalese and red tape.

I've said on this board many times that I'm not 100% OK with how Paterno handled the situation. He should have followed up. He didn't do enough. Why? I don't know. Maybe he had some doubt about McQueary's story because it wasn't clear and because Sandusky was never charged in 1998? Maybe he felt the administrators would relay the information to the appropriate people? Maybe he felt it wasn't his story to pursue because Sandusky was a former, and not current, PSU employee at the time? Maybe he was just so involved with football that he passed the buck? Some combination of all of those?

I don't know the answers to those questions. I'm not sure I agree that Paterno should have accompanied McQueary to the police station, because he wasn't the witness; it wasn't his story to tell. Should he have encouraged McQueary to tell the police, rather than Schultz and Spanier? Maybe. McQueary's father and family friend, who was a mandatory reporter, probably should have told him the same thing, instead of telling him to tell Paterno.

The pre-trial dates have been updated in the administrators' case. Maybe we'll learn more, and gain some context to those emails people love to cite, if it reaches trial. I know I'm curious to read testimony from a long list of individuals tied to the Sandusky scandal.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

The NCAA tried this with Penn State and since then my thinking has changed. The actions of Jerry Sandusky were horrific, but removed from the emotions of the day, penalizing a football team for such criminal depravity was the NCAA trying to seize a moral high ground.

It’s unlikely it caused much healing among Sandusky’s victims. Instead, it missed the point. If Penn State allowed football to get too big, then why honor that by making Penn State football the target.

What kind of horseshit is this? does this guy subscribe to the cult?

No, dumbass, its exactly WHY you punish these schools. Its the CULTURE of "Football above all !!" that led to these scandals. that is exactly why to punish these schools you take away FOOTBALL.

It "missed the point" at State Penn because they weren't punished. If they had to cease football operation for a couple of years to contemplate their football first culture, they would have learned their lesson. But alas, the toothless NCAA gave them their slap on the wrist and they didn't miss a beat.

If you think the "culture of football" is isolated to Penn State, Baylor, or a handful of other schools, you've got your head in the sand. Rutgers, with its desire to get into the B1G to help reverse its awful financial situation, with its efforts to expand facilities, is very much part of the "football culture." Something like the Baylor case could take place at Appalachian State. Kids could be being abused at Miami of Ohio. These are societal problems, and scandals happen because people fail to do the right thing. To blame football is a simplistic view that deflects from the real problems surrounding abuse in this country and on college campuses.

 

[PatrickRU92]

If you think the "culture of football" is isolated to Penn State, Baylor, or a handful of other schools, you've got your head in the sand. .

There are plenty of other schools with a football first culture and the names of those schools are none too surprising.

However please list those schools who harbored a known child rapist on campus for 20 years, gave him a campus office and whose head coach looked the other way while rapes continued, all to protect football. (hint: the list is very short)

 

[Knight Ed]

Cheesesteak Vegas, don't bother explaining the quote, it's been out there for the world to see since 2011. You will NEVER get the RU faithful to hear your points because they've covered their ears back in 2011. Recognize when you are talking to a cement wall. There isn't a PSU story out there that they wouldn't put a negative spin on somehow, someway (even THON) but they've seemed to move on quite quickly from Their criminal activity and that's okay even though both schools got rid of those involved. They've been holding on to this vitriol for 5 years already, it will continue. Anytime something remotely negative happens at any other school, they act like kids in a candy store because they take pleasure in others misery. Life is too short people.

Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!

There is no evidence that the Paterno worshippers will say that proved Paterno was the evil person the world now knows him to be. When Paterno admitted he new for over a decade in court about kids being raped in his showers, that didn't bother them. When the e-mails proved Paterno orchestrated the cover up, that didn't bother them. When recent court findings showed the Paterno cover up had gone on for 40 years, they Paterno worshippers were OK with that too.
It of makes you question the morality of any of the Paterno worshippers. Forget the dozens of children raped while Paterno orchestrated the cover up for his entire career. All that matters was the wins on the football field. If dozens of kids got raped in the meantime while Paterno created the system that allowed it to happen, so be it.

 

[lyndj]

Vegas, I need your help with this (your most vocal cohorts on the BWI site aren't willing to engage in civil, rational discussion).

1998 incident - email found: "Coach is anxious to know where this stands," I am going to make the assumption that "Coach" is Paterno. This is the most logical conclusion. To disagree would be absolutely moronic. IMO, Paterno is at least now aware that Sandusky might be doing improper things with little boys.
2001 incident (or 2002, depending on which version you believe) - Mike McQueary told Paterno he had witnessed Sandusky doing something improper with a boy in the Penn State football building shower. According to Paterno, he was told something of a "horsing around" nature was going on. According to McQueary's testimony, Mike was more specific in his description. Either way, we should note that Paterno reported the incident (whatever it was) to Curley and Schultz. This is the reason Paterno was never charged with a crime.

Why I believe Paterno -- while not legally liable -- dropped the ball from a moral standpoint: Assuming Paterno is "Coach" in the 1998 email, he now knows at a minimum: 1.) Sandusky was previously investigated for improper activity with a male minor in 1998 and 2.) his former star QB just witnessed something of that nature.

IMO: He should have at this point realized that a potentially massive conflict of interest existed if he simply followed protocol to report this info up to Curley and Shultz. I would say that in addition to reporting to Curley and Shultz, Paterno should have gone with Mike directly to law enforcement not affiliated in any way with PSU (to avoid conflict of interest) so Mike could go ahead and file a formal report. Additionally, Paterno should have mentioned to the assigned case investigator everything he knew regarding the 1998 incident.

Folks on the BWI board seem to be content with Joe following protocol. They can't conceive that Joe failed many kids by hiding behind a bunch of legalese and red tape.

Mike was a grown 26 year old man. If he saw something he shouldn't need his hand held to go to the police himself. I mean he went home and left the kid where he was for godsake. He talked to his Dad, a doctor, and his Dad's friend, also a doctor, before he even went to see Paterno. If you were his father, would you not all head back to the locker room immediately to rescue the kid or find out more about the situation? Would you allow your son to sleep it off before reporting it??

I'm not sure people at BWI are content about Paterno following protocol as much as they feel he shouldn't be stacked with the blame when the reporting went higher throughout the university. Regardless of where you think Paterno was in the hierarchy, he wasn't in a higher position than the ones he reported to. At the end of the day it is those officials who have a responsibility to the whole university community whereas Paterno's responsibility was to the university football program and athletics. That seems to be their main issue.

We'll know soon enough as McQueary will have to testify in the upcoming trials of the others (if it actually happens) and hopefully the speculation will be put to rest because we'll know what they actually did/didn't do as opposed to the guesswork because they haven't spoken yet.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

There are plenty of other schools with a football first culture and the names of those schools are none too surprising.

However please list those schools who harbored a known child rapist on campus for 20 years, gave him a campus office and whose head coach looked the other way while rapes continued, all to protect football. (hint: the list is very short)

Really short. Zero, in fact.

 

[PatrickRU92]

You're right, it's zero as far as I know.

No try again. (another hint: this schools fans are the most delusional, zombie-like, culty, drones in the country, and they continue to deny any wrongdoing)

 

[Knight Ed]

How many kids wouldn't have been destroyed if Paterno would have done the right thing in the early 70's when Paterno first found out Sandusky was a child molester?
Sure, he never would have been deified by the Penn State crowd, but he would have earned the respect of those who knew him instead of living a life that was a lie.

 

[JoeRU0304]

If you think the "culture of football" is isolated to Penn State, Baylor, or a handful of other schools, you've got your head in the sand. Rutgers, with its desire to get into the B1G to help reverse its awful financial situation, with its efforts to expand facilities, is very much part of the "football culture." Something like the Baylor case could take place at Appalachian State. Kids could be being abused at Miami of Ohio. These are societal problems, and scandals happen because people fail to do the right thing. To blame football is a simplistic view that deflects from the real problems surrounding abuse in this country and on college campuses.

Look at what happened at Rutgers last summer- action came fairly swiftly. Now, look at Baylor. Can you honestly look at yourself and say, "Yeahp, totally both examples of 'cover-up for football culture"???


Joe P.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

How many kids wouldn't have been destroyed if Paterno would have done the right thing in the early 70's when Paterno first found out Sandusky was a child molester?
Sure, he never would have been deified by the Penn State crowd, but he would have earned the respect of those who knew him instead of living a life that was a lie.

Huh?

Without even getting into whether the 1970s allegations hold any water, if Jerry Sandusky was arrested, charged and found guilty back then, it would have been a blip on the radar. Paterno could have fired him, moved on the next day, and continued building the program. There was absolutely no football-related reason to protect Sandusky, a then unknown position coach, in the 1970s. Further, if you're trying to protect a program at all costs, the absolute last thing you would do is promote Sandusky and sit idly by as he started a children's charity the next year. Seems a little risky, no?

If you trust everything you read about the 1970s allegations and Joe Paterno a few weeks ago, that's on you (there's a reason that a, the story died in 48 hours, and b, CNN didn't run its piece for six months because it deemed it not credible), but your hypothesis about how dealing with Sandusky then would have impacted Paterno's career misses the mark, IMO.

 

[lyndj]

There is no evidence that the Paterno worshippers will say that proved Paterno was the evil person the world now knows him to be. When Paterno admitted he new for over a decade in court about kids being raped in his showers, that didn't bother them. When the e-mails proved Paterno orchestrated the cover up, that didn't bother them. When recent court findings showed the Paterno cover up had gone on for 40 years, they Paterno worshippers were OK with that too.
It of makes you question the morality of any of the Paterno worshippers. Forget the dozens of children raped while Paterno orchestrated the cover up for his entire career. All that matters was the wins on the football field. If dozens of kids got raped in the meantime while Paterno created the system that allowed it to happen, so be it.

I'm not arguing or debating any of this because so much of it is speculation. Those men have not gone to trial still after 5 years.so this cover-up remains an allegation until proven otherwise. I'm not saying they didn't, I'm saying it's not proven. We don't know all that was done at the time because we only have what the prosecution alleges. you prove it I'll believe it, until then I'll have my opinion based on what I know right now but I'm aware that is speculative and not proven. In Sandusky's trial, the victims testified and he was proven guilty. That's enough for me. If and when that happens with these others, that will be enough for me as well.

 

[lyndj]

Y'all have a great and safe holiday weekend. Why every transgression at very school devolves into a PSU thing is beyond me.

Be Blessed!

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Look at what happened at Rutgers last summer- action came fairly swiftly. Now, look at Baylor. Can you honestly look at yourself and say, "Yeahp, totally both examples of 'cover-up for football culture"???


Joe P.

I think you missed the point. My idea was never to compare a few defensive backs robbing people and beating them up to athletic department officials limiting sexual abuse reports.

Simply, college football is a massive business, one that's almost too big to fail at this point. It is the big show in town. That's the case at Penn State. It's the case at Baylor. It's the case at Alabama. It's the case at a number of schools, yes, including Rutgers.

But the fact that it is such a powerful revenue generator isn't what makes these things happen. What leads to scandals is when individuals use poor judgment. Whether that's telling a victim not to go to the police, or meeting with professors when you shouldn't. My goal isn't to compare the severity of those, but to show that they're borne of the same idea, the idea that has also led to spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on satellite camps and ever bigger and shinier facilities.

The responsibility lies with players, coaches, administrators, etc. to do the right. It lies with police to do the right thing. In the Sandusky case, some might say it also lies with politicians, state departments, and high-ranking members of charities to do the right thing.

Now, in an effort to help you guys get this thread back on topic...

As it relates to Baylor specifically, I'd like to learn a lot more about who knew what, and when, because the report the school released yesterday was anything but transparent. I mean, the president was reassigned and they're going to promote the DC to head coach. That should strike everyone as odd; this couldn't have just been an Art Briles problem.

 

[PatrickRU92]

Y'all have a great and safe holiday weekend. Why every transgression at very school devolves into a PSU thing is beyond me.

Be Blessed!

As soon as the Baylor news came out a State Penn supporter came to OUR BOARD and said that what happened at Baylor was worse than what happened at State Penn.

That is why the discussion started.

Piece of advice to State Penn fans: when another school does something wrong KEEP YOUR COLLECTIVE MOUTHS SHUT. No matter what any school does what happened at State Penn is far worse. So just zip your mouths and continue to feel fortunate that the NCAA pussied out with you guys.

I'm sorry but I will never ever ever ever allow a State Penn drone to use the "see it happens at other schools" argument on this board. you guys continue to pretend that you were wronged and unfarily persecuted and it doesn't help your cause.

 

[JoeRU0304]

I think you missed the point. My idea was never to compare a few defensive backs robbing people and beating them up to athletic department officials limiting sexual abuse reports.

Simply, college football is a massive business, one that's almost too big to fail at this point. It is the big show in town. That's the case at Penn State. It's the case at Baylor. It's the case at Alabama. It's the case at a number of schools, yes, including Rutgers.

But the fact that it is such a powerful revenue generator isn't what makes these things happen. What leads to scandals is when individuals use poor judgment. Whether that's telling a victim not to go to the police, or meeting with professors when you shouldn't. My goal isn't to compare the severity of those, but to show that they're borne of the same idea, the idea that has also led to spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on satellite camps and ever bigger and shinier facilities.

The responsibility lies with players, coaches, administrators, etc. to do the right. It lies with police to do the right thing. In the Sandusky case, some might say it also lies with politicians, state departments, and high-ranking members of charities to do the right thing.

As it relates to Baylor specifically, I'd like to learn a lot more about who knew what, and when, because the report the school released yesterday was anything but transparent. I mean, the president was reassigned and they're going to promote the DC to head coach. That should strike everyone as odd; this couldn't have just been an Art Briles problem.

Great post and I had an inkling this is what you meant, but sometimes it's a bit murky to decipher through quick posts.


Joe P.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

As soon as the Baylor news came out a State Penn supporter came to OUR BOARD and said that what happened at Baylor was worse than what happened at State Penn.

That is why the discussion started.

Piece of advice to State Penn fans: when another school does something wrong KEEP YOUR COLLECTIVE MOUTHS SHUT. No matter what any school does what happened at State Penn is far worse. So just zip your mouths and continue to feel fortunate that the NCAA pussied out with you guys.

I'm sorry but I will never ever ever ever allow a State Penn drone to use the "see it happens at other schools" argument on this board. you guys continue to pretend that you were wronged and unfarily persecuted and it doesn't help your cause.

I know context is routinely a difficult concept for many on this board, but if you're referring to the post I made: I said it was worse in relation to football itself and the NCAA's rules. Considering this is dealing with current coaches and players actually playing in games, not to mention the NCAA's revised guidelines on reporting abuse, I'm not sure how anyone could disagree with that statement.

To act as if I equated the crimes themselves is extremely disingenuous.

 

[Knight Ed]

I'm not arguing or debating any of this because so much of it is speculation. Those men have not gone to trial still after 5 years.so this cover-up remains an allegation until proven otherwise. I'm not saying they didn't, I'm saying it's not proven. We don't know all that was done at the time because we only have what the prosecution alleges. you prove it I'll believe it, until then I'll have my opinion based on what I know right now but I'm aware that is speculative and not proven. In Sandusky's trial, the victims testified and he was proven guilty. That's enough for me. If and when that happens with these others, that will be enough for me as well.

You are hiding behind the word "speculation." Paterno admitted in court that he knew about child rape going on in his shower for over a decade. E-mails released prove he covered it up. This isn't "speculation", these are facts you are denying.
Why don't you ask yourself why you personally need to deny these facts? Everytime new evidence comes out the Paterno worshippers line up to say how it is all lies.
Think about that for a second. When more evidence comes out, the automatic reaction of the Patern lovers wil be to line up and say it's all a lie. No matter what it is, as long as it shows Paterno is guilty, lies must be told. Seriously, think about that.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

You are hiding behind the word "speculation." Paterno admitted in court that he knew about child rape going on in his shower for over a decade. E-mails released prove he covered it up. This isn't "speculation", these are facts you are denying.
Why don't you ask yourself why you personally need to deny these facts? Everytime new evidence comes out the Paterno worshippers line up to say how it is all lies.
Think about that for a second. When more evidence comes out, the automatic reaction of the Patern lovers wil be to line up and say it's all a lie. No matter what it is, as long as it shows Paterno is guilty, lies must be told. Seriously, think about that.

1) He didn't admit he knew about child rape.

2) The emails lack any semblance of context and have had meanings applied to them without ever hearing from the parties involved.

Rather than argue, I'd suggest you sit back, enjoy the long weekend, and wait for the trials to all play out.

 

[vkj91]

Cheesesteak Vegas, don't bother explaining the quote, it's been out there for the world to see since 2011. You will NEVER get the RU faithful to hear your points because they've covered their ears back in 2011. Recognize when you are talking to a cement wall. There isn't a PSU story out there that they wouldn't put a negative spin on somehow, someway (even THON) but they've seemed to move on quite quickly from Their criminal activity and that's okay even though both schools got rid of those involved. They've been holding on to this vitriol for 5 years already, it will continue. Anytime something remotely negative happens at any other school, they act like kids in a candy store because they take pleasure in others misery. Life is too short people.

Have a safe holiday weekend everyone!

Looks who is back.