Keep Chopping was coined by Schiano in the beginning of 2005.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/11/AR2006111100499.html
What is Chris Ash's Vision??
- Thread starter rutgersal
- Start date
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/11/AR2006111100499.html
Schiano landed Brian Leonard those first few years. He also recruited Florida to substantially improve overall team speed. Though the results weren't there, one could easily see that the talent level was increasing substantially, as his recruiting got better each year. In contrast, our recruiting slipped from last year to this year.
if one day hoping that paying for my season tickets doesnt feel like throwing money down a hole, then yeah, that's my agenda. It's felt that way for the last three years. That's why I want more to be done to improve the quality of the product.Anything else is absurd.
No one ever said Franklin invented Penn States winning image. But what he has done is remade the Penn State program in his own image, and has had the program competing at a high level the past two years, while running a disciplined program, and recruiting at an elite level. For that he has my respect.
I doubt anyone knew who Leonard (NY BTW) was as a true frosh in 2002 and he was originally recruited as a linebacker. He got thrown in at RB in practice in 2003 because the other RB’s kept either fumbling or pissing Schiano off, so he did it originally to shake the other kids up a bit, not out of a stroke of genius. You can also thank Shea for sticking through with Nate Leonard after he got hurt, because that was one of the big reasons Leonard ended up at Rutgers and not cuse.
It was evident AFTER year 3 the talent was ‘getting better’, not BEFORE it. Stop being intentionally misleading. I also think it’s hysterical you’re harping on FL recruitung this month where last month I made the argument that Schiano largely cracked the NJ code by winning with FL/NY talent first and you were all “no, no, no, that wasn’t it”. Also, PSU pays their HC 5-6 mil and coordinators 1 mil. It’s a different element when you can do that.
Joe P.
I don’t think people fully realize what it will take for RU football to get anywhere near the top of the BIG. Ash’s vision was stated from his initial press conference. It may take 5-10 years (or longer) before we see consistent winning. It’s a major operation to change internal culture and external perception. When you are in a division more difficult than the Big East circa 2001, it’s not a simple fix. The BIGs top schools are fine tuned machines of vast wealth, resources and decades of reputation. For example, the Michigan athletics department runs a SURPLUS after expenses. This allows for the financial freedom that they have. For this program (RU), whom recently, partially committed to “ big time” athletics, it is decades behind the others in its conference, especially the BIG east. The program where it stands now, on all levels is still trying to transition from what it was allowed to do. Which would be a top five AAC or the post, redesigned Big east, team. The argument that RU should be showing better results by now is a futile arguement. The Scenarios are totally different than what others are comparing to (mid 2000s RU football). The ascension from pre to post big east realignment and the AAC to BIG is vastly different, on all accounts, given the program’s resources, reputation, etc., relative to its competitors.
I support Ash just on the basis of trying to take on this Herculean task, given the constraints. And he KNOWS what it takes to compete in the BIG; he has lived it. It was/is a huge risk for him, and I acknowledge that.
I support Ash just on the basis of trying to take on this Herculean task, given the constraints. And he KNOWS what it takes to compete in the BIG; he has lived it. It was/is a huge risk for him, and I acknowledge that.
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Great post but don’t even bother. They ‘hey look at me’ crew that just wants to see themselves post won’t even acknowledge it in a way that makes any sense.
Joe P.
I'm not hung up on being at the top of the Big 10.
I'm just tired of seeing lithless efforts on a weekly basis against teams that on paper, RU should be competitive with. I was fine with giving Ash an extension until the Indiana game where it looked like no one wanted to be there.
That's on the coaching staff fullstop. After that pathetic effort, any talks of an extension should've been shelved until the following year.
The first Schiano recruiting class that matched Ash's 2017 recruiting class was 2007.
From 2000 to 2006, Schiano's recruiting classes more closely resembled Ash's 2018 class.
So, WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????!!
By the way, you felt like you've thrown your tickets away the last three years? What about from 2013 to 2015? Did you feel the same way then when the program was in much much worse situation?
........ the truth comes out regarding Al, the great "Rutgers fan."
Some fan you are, that you can't even see good things happening to the program. You have joined the sentiments of your tailgate crew, who we all know have hated Ash from the get go and have never given him a fair shake. At every turn, at every opportunity, they look for a chance to slam the guy. Just look at the latest narrative after Henry Baker left.
Now that we all know your TRUE COLORS, when the season starts, you better not come on here with your outlandish predictions about how we will beat Ohio State or Penn State or how Blackshear is the next Ray Rice or how McNulty is having the effect like Fridge or how Nunzio is Hafley on steroids. Don't come here with that LOOK AT ME CRAP.
............ oh, and you really think we lost to Indiana because of Ash's recruiting? WOW, just WOW.
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I think Al's clearly lost it in his old age.
Combine that with his ridiculously nostalgic view of the Schiano era and you have the recipe for one dangerously delusional fan.
The revisionist history has got to stop.
Combine that with his ridiculously nostalgic view of the Schiano era and you have the recipe for one dangerously delusional fan.
The revisionist history has got to stop.
No doubt Indiana was a bad game, but what about Maryland, Purdue and Illinois?
Right.
And what about Schiano's New Hampshire and Buffalo losses?
New Hampshire was year 4.
Buffalo- lost 34-11 in year 2. [EDIT- RU beat Army]
But Greg was a genius and a perfect coach.
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Football builds are slow depending on the situation left by previous HC.
Recruiting is the lifeblood to any program depending on the program's goals.
Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin are obviously in top tier of recruiters.
But guys like Frost, Durkin seem like very solid recruiters with results TBD.
While Wisconsin and MSU obviously have their system of getting highly rated 3 stars that are actually 4 stars.
All of this makes the conference very rough if a HC cannot recruit.
Noh we beat Army 44-0. We did give 1-11 Buffalo their only win of the year and their only win ever against a P5 team to this date. We also blew a 14-point 2nd half lead against a lousy Temple squad (“Temple in the rain”).
Joe P.
In a very bizarre thread, the most bizarre thing of all is Al. Al who would write novels explaining how RU was going to beat teams they had zero chance of beating. Al who would swear RU was going to win the NC when most knew a 7 win season was ambitious. Al who many would cringe when they opened one of his posts because the declarations made could never be met. Now, with a coach who is still in the process of cleaning up the mess he inherited, after TWO Years, Al has become like the rest of the Ashbashers. What's up with that?
If I remember correctly, Terry Shea honoring Brian’s brothers Rutgers scholarship after he suffered a severe leg injury (during his senior year) played a big part in his coming here
I’m a big fan of Schiano. That being said, he caught some key breaks that often go overlooked:
-Shea honoring Nate Leonard’s scholly when cuse didn’t (Brian Leonard)
-Pasquiloni getting fired (Rice, Greene)
-shifting in the BE
-Wanny getting fired at Pitt (Hafley, Nova, a number of ‘12 recruits that the former Pitt coaches helped with)
Joe P.
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Very true. Flood caught the biggest break ever with Pedd State and couldn't capitalize. Hiring Flood was worse than trading Babe Ruth, but I digress.
I hear you...also, don’t get me wrong; Schiano did most of the heavy lifting and if it wasn’t for him, we’re not in the B1G today. That being said, if those things don’t happen, who knows what actually shakes out...but imagine if cuse had Leonard and Rice, which was a very, very real possibility...
Joe P.
Nobody said Schiano was the perfect coach. And he lost his fair share too. But Schiano and Ash did not start at the same spot. That's just a myth.
Definitely not at the same spot, though sometimes Ash’s difficulties are underscored a bit. Schiano took a superfund site and turned it into moderately valuable property. Ash now has to take that moderately valuable property that the last owner trashed a bit and turn it into something to compete with the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts.
Joe P.
Good analogy. I can agree with that.
He's lucid again, and I love it.
Ash never built a B1G program. He was on the staff for a few years. We are all well aware of the culture change and we've discussed it ad nauseum. Everyone knows that is Ash's main idea/plan/goal..but so far it isn't showing results YET. Will it? I don't know. But part of changing the culture and creating a competitive program should be getting better Jimmie's and Joe's in the building. recruiting has not been great and guys like Bailey have proven to have similar problems to other kids we have seen. So I question how far this "culture" thing goes with just bland uniforms, mantras, and better eating. It is the foundation, sure. But is it the be all end all of the program being competitive?
In 2014 we went bowling and won, had a winning season, and played ok with our division aside from a team or two. That was with the "AAC program" and without the benefit of 2 years of Ash's culture....so something is not quite computing. Yes it was a down year, but you are saying no matter what, we need 10 years to even do that again...be competitive and have a winning season.
I've said from the beginning, Ash's perception of RU was that of a typical "big time" midwestern guy who doesn't know much or respect much about RU or northeastern football. HE said we were such a piece of crap that he had to change the culture. But maybe his culture ain't what is gonna work here.
We will see. No, I don't think Ash needs 10 years for us to have an inkling if he will get it done or not.
Lus, that ‘Leonard’ point was completely off the mark and a red herring for reasons already discussed. You guys don’t like Ash. That’s fine, but there’s plenty of good points to make without resorting to complete bulls*** or misleading stuff (in 2014 Michigan and PSU were in disarray; how’d everything turn out the very next year in the division since everything was a-ok?)
Joe P.
Problem is all the good will that was achieved with those three wins were lost by the terrible last two, Indiana and MSU getting out scored 81-7
I agree with everything you wrote minus the last paragraph. I’m not disputing that it was always going to be a monumental task for anyone who took the job. My problem is with the job Ash has done since he arrived.
I have no problem with a coach setting realistic expectations and ’working harder to get better every day’ like the staff incessantly beats into the media’s head, however I believe chris ash has taken a real backseat in terms of creating excitement within the local communtity, which is ultimately the first step in getting Rutgers back into mid range, bowl eligible status consistently.
As Al pointed out, when in year 2 of a coaches tenure he lands 0 of the top 15 prospects and only 4 total in state prospects in a state as talent rich as NJ, that’s reason for major concern, particularly since although we weren’t great, we were certainly better than 2016.
Some have laughed at me for suggesting a HC Mike Houston from a little school in Virginia who is a dynamo in the coaching world whose school just signed him to a 10 year contract with a large buyout bc they know a P5 school will be calling soon.... those same fans were probably laughing at PSU when they hired a HC from a tiny football school in NYC, Fordham, named Joe Moorhead....
I believe a bowl game is the benchmark this year, 6 wins is not unreasonable with our schedule, if not please cut our losses with ash and move on
Well, you can't deny facts. But, in your opinion, why do 2 bad losses cancel out 3 B1G wins?
This year is key as to performance and recruiting. Way too early to tell, but the staff seems up to the task.
You see you say that but it’s a completely default answer and not even looking at the coach objectively.... I’m not disputing the monumental task ash had when he took over the program, I’m questioning his ability as the right man for the job. What exactly have you seen in the 2 years in the field and with recruiting taking the step backwards it did that makes you believe ash is the guy? I get the whole, ‘it’s year 2 give him time’ etc etc but you could say that about any coach honestly... I remember being done with Kyle Flood after year two and my buddies would say ‘give it time’ and well...
As I said, if we’re in a bowl game next year I will absolutely eat crow and make the statement for all to laugh at me and my lack of football knowledge, lol.
You’re misreading me. I think there’s plenty of valid criticism for Ash; I just don’t see much of it in this thread. You wanna argue that his marketing/ identity of the program has been off, he should have emphasized the positive more, he bungled the O for the first 2 years, recruiting Georgia was a mistake, it’s taking him longer than expected to get certain things going, you’d get no protest from me...but people here are reinventing history, acting like we were headed in the right direction before ‘do nothing right Ash’ came and ruined it all, and Schiano nailed it all down from the word ‘go’. That’s complete and utter bulls*** and some here are touting it as genius. Hell, last month Windsock Al was talking about how Schiano was getting all these top NJ prospects right from the start (NOT TRUE) to get us to the postseason, and I was pointing out that it was plenty of FL and NY that got us over the Bowl game hump; now this month it’s all about how Ash should have been recruiting Florida to win like Schiano did.
Joe P.
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He's done some good. The defense improved. He's made some good hires on paper. Recruiting took a step back, I agree. But on paper, he's brought in some decent quarterbacks. So we'll see how this year goes. 6 wins would be great. If he goes 5-7 that wouldn't be terrible either. I can even accept 4-8 if the offense is better.
Depends on which ranking you look at:
https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=NJ
Daevon Robinson #8
Isaih Pacheco #9
Eddie Lewis is #17
And don't forget that Artur Sitkowski is a New Jersey recruit. He should not be listed under Florida. Under 247 rankings he would be the #10 or 11 recruit in the State of NJ.
You do realize that the #10 ranked kid in the Rivals list is a 5.7, and so are Robinson and Sitkowski? Rutgers also picked up Lacewell from Staten Island, another 5.7, and #4 in the State of New York. But you guys don't like these facts because they make Ash look good
You and Al seem intent on selectively cherry picking your rankings and stats to make your case for the Ash hate machine. Have at it.
See I feel like we should have been 5-7 last year to begin with. Losses to eastern Michigan can’t happen. We win that game we’re at 5 wins and to improve that by 1 more win year 3 to me is not unreasonable. I’d be more ok with 5-7 this year if things like 41-0 to Indiana don’t happen so I suppose we’ll see
This is the year where it’s now ‘all on Ash’. If anything I’m consistent with my logic. I did the same with Schiano. I didn’t turn on Flood until Emailgate even though I had serious doubts (for all the good 2014 was on the field, the next 2 recruiting classes (even before Flood was let go) sure didn’t reflect it, which means to me that a LOT of people more important than me were NOT buying in). This is where Ash needs to really start owning this.
Joe P.
I get what you’re saying but I have ADHD and just thinking about all of these posts gives me hives. No way I can read them all.
