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What is the state of RU Baseball?

RUboston

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Sep 13, 2002
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I'm more familiar with football and hoops. Any chance they compete for the Big Ten title anytime soon?

What kind of players are being recruited to the program?

I checked our starting roster from the last game (win at Old Dominion). Only one player (the SS) is listed as over six feet tall. Our starting outfield has two 5'9" guys and the other listed at 5'10". I know size is not as important in baseball but it can help.

I checked the career stats of the starting 9 (including the DH) from the last game. They've totaled 1,710 at bats and 4 HR's. That's one HR every 427.5 at bats. I know HR's aren't the only relevant stat but it is an indication of a team's power. There are some good batting averages. Is it a team filled with lead off type guys? Is there a lot of speed?

Haven't had a chance to look at pitching yet.

It doesn't seem that long ago that RU was winning the Big East and going to the CWS. Any return to that on the horizon?
 
Baseball has always been one of RU's better non-revenue sports and Fred Hill did a decent job recruiting but a better job developing players and had a number of All-Americans. Baseball has fallen a bit in recent years - fewer good hitters and thin pitching. Other than a very nice field surface, our facilities (like many of our non-revenue sports) are extremely poor, not only compared to B1G programs, but compared to most major programs. HS quality stands, no locker rooms or bathrooms, no lights, etc. There are DIII programs with better facilities, let alone B1G programs.

Yes, many of our players (including starters) are on the small side. Hopefully, Sousek, the Western Carolina transfer will start to contribute - had a HR yesterday I believe. But our pitching is a big question mark. Brey is excellent, Wake Forest Transfer McCoy has talent and Driscoll can hit 90, but isn't showing his last year's form so far this year. Our relief pitching has been poor. Baxter came in yesterday with a big lead and couldn't hold it and Yacopek (Pitt transfer) killed us on Saturday.

We're also very thin at at catcher. We have a 175 pound kid who never played catcher in HS behind the plate.

Under Hill, we were a top notch fielding team - needed where you're not recruiting the pitchers and hitters that the southern schools do. That is no longer the case - in the Miami series (albeit early in the year) and at other times, we blow simple plays - something we didn't used to do.

Until we upgrade our facilities it will be tough to compete in the B1G even though it is not a top baseball conference across the board(though Indiana is now a national level team). Literio seems like a good guy who can get it done if the money becomes available for facilities help (they're fund-raising now for a practice facility).
This post was edited on 3/2 10:31 AM by CuredbywinningRU
 
It is absolutely ridiculous for you to say poor things about Devish behind the plate. Have you seen him play? The kid was an absolute grinder last year and is a tough kid behind the plate. He has a whole year of college experience under his belt now. Also check out his OBP last year. For an 8-9 hitter he seems to find ways to get on base an awful lot.

ODU won 40 games last year and went to the CWS. This years Miami squad is probably one of the top squads an RU team has faced in the last 5 years.

1-6 isn't the start any team would want, but when you see the numbers Brey is putting up, and you see the promise McCoy and Driscoll showed, you have to think the team will win its share of ballgames. Plus Rosa can sling it as well. The bullpen is going to need someone to step up. Young and Herrmann are proven and have looked solid thus far, but they will need another arm or two to step up. Bohnert can be that guy.
 
I did not intend to say anything about Devish's ability behind the plate and in fact I have seen him play several times and he's a very nice player. My obvious point is that it is a sign of weakness in a program where.at the B1G level you are relying for catcher on what is by any objective measure an undersized kid who is relatively new to the position. Perhaps what I should have said is that we are thin at catcher and I will make that change.
This post was edited on 3/2 10:30 AM by CuredbywinningRU
 
Thanks for the analysis. Does RU recruit out of state kids, or do they stick to NJ talent? I noticed all NJ kids on the roster save 3 kids from PA (which is basically NJ West).

NJ must be full of good HS baseball talent. Is it like football and basketball, where a lot of kids choose other programs and go out of state? Out of the top 20 NJ HS baseball recruits in the class of 2014, did any choose RU?

I re-checked my math. There were actually 1733 at bats from the starters with 4 HR's, making it one HR for every 433 at bats. To me, that shows a real lack of power. Again, not the most crucial stat, but something you definitely want in the 3, 4 and 5 slots

I went to the Cape Cod League All Star game last year. A Seton Hall kid won the HR derby.
 
RUBoston - there is virtually no out of state recruiting and the roster reflects this. We rarely have had power though over a few year period with Frazier, Kivlehan (what an amazing story - no baseball since HS and in his only year of college ball has an AA caliber season - and now moving his way up in the pros) Matthews and our big first baseman whose name I forget we had some pop. But right now we have virtually no power. We typically only get a very few of the top NJ players, many of whom choose to go out of state or to SHU or SJU - our lack of facilities is certainly part of this. Historically we've had some great players (more position players than pitchers and our best all time pitcher - 1st round pick Bobby Brownlie - had an injury shortened pro career) and I hope that if the new facility gets built, we'll be able to get the talent we need to compete in the B1G.
 
So, are SHU and St. John's considered better baseball destinations by NJ HS prospects?
 
Originally posted by RUboston:

I'm more familiar with football and hoops. Any chance they compete for the Big Ten title anytime soon?

What kind of players are being recruited to the program?

I checked our starting roster from the last game (win at Old Dominion). Only one player (the SS) is listed as over six feet tall. Our starting outfield has two 5'9" guys and the other listed at 5'10". I know size is not as important in baseball but it can help.

I checked the career stats of the starting 9 (including the DH) from the last game. They've totaled 1,710 at bats and 4 HR's. That's one HR every 427.5 at bats. I know HR's aren't the only relevant stat but it is an indication of a team's power. There are some good batting averages. Is it a team filled with lead off type guys? Is there a lot of speed?

Haven't had a chance to look at pitching yet.

It doesn't seem that long ago that RU was winning the Big East and going to the CWS. Any return to that on the horizon?
I think you are confusing the CWS and making a Regional/Super Regional. Rutgers has made 1 appearance at the CWS in 1950.
 
Originally posted by BaseballFan913:
It is absolutely ridiculous for you to say poor things about Devish behind the plate. Have you seen him play? The kid was an absolute grinder last year and is a tough kid behind the plate. He has a whole year of college experience under his belt now. Also check out his OBP last year. For an 8-9 hitter he seems to find ways to get on base an awful lot.

ODU won 40 games last year and went to the CWS. This years Miami squad is probably one of the top squads an RU team has faced in the last 5 years.

1-6 isn't the start any team would want, but when you see the numbers Brey is putting up, and you see the promise McCoy and Driscoll showed, you have to think the team will win its share of ballgames. Plus Rosa can sling it as well. The bullpen is going to need someone to step up. Young and Herrmann are proven and have looked solid thus far, but they will need another arm or two to step up. Bohnert can be that guy.
ODU made a Regional last year, not the CWS. They went 0-2 losing to Maryland and Cambell.
 
I don't know if they are considered better or not, but that's two of our primary competitors and I believe that over the past 10 years, SJU probably has had more success than us. Certainly in the 80s, SHU was a better program and they have been intermittently since then, though for many years we were the better program.
 
A lot of Northern schools including Big 10 schools have been spending money to update/upgrade their baseball facilities to try and keep kids home and to be able to recruit the Southern/Western kids that are more talented than what their areas provide. Most Big 10 schools have very nice stadiums now and are upgrading their practice facilities. The arms race in sports includes baseball when it comes to facilities as a lot of schools are trying to make it a revenue sport vs a cash dump.
 
You're right, I'm probably thinking of a regional.

I guess I found the answer to my above question. I just checked the Star Ledger 2014 All State baseball team. Out of the 14 first teamers, one committed to RU, a catcher.

St. John's had two commits, including the NJ player of the year, who actually went to Rutgers Prep.
Other schools: Notre Dame, East Carolina, Maryland, Alabama, Muhlenberg, Southern Wesleyan, Carson-Newman, and Hartford.

It seems like RU is going to have to do a lot better than that. Let's hope the new facility gets built.
 
Just to give you an example of where RU is baseball facility wise.

RU

NJ-Piscataway-Rutgers-2.jpg

Nebraska

bb_newindoor_large5.jpg
 
Originally posted by RUboston:

So, are SHU and St. John's considered better baseball destinations by NJ HS prospects?
Maybe SJU more than SHU but both have deep New Jersey connections. SHU is coached by Rob Shepard who took over from his father. Robb's brother Mike coaches at Seton Hall Prep and is one of the most successful high school coaches in the state. I believe another brother coaches at Morristown Beard and a cousin is up in Bergen County.
SJU is coached by Ed Blankmeyer who played at SHU is married to Sheppard's sister and lives in NJ. He has been able to recruit very well here. Probably the most interesting recruiting battle of late was for Mike Sheppard III (son of the SHP coach) who picked SJU over Uncle Robb's SHU Pirates. He also recruited his own son out of SHP that year but Sheppard was the more prized recruit.
Point is, both of these coaches have very strong ties throughout the state.
 
Does Columbia University also compete with us for baseball players? I just checked the Columbia website. They just split a 4 game series with no. 6 Houston in Houston, pounding out 20 hits in one game and hitting 4 HR's in the series. Pretty impressive.
 
At the Div-1 level, if you are not recruiting baseball players from states likes Florida, California, Texas, Virginia, Georgia, and the Carolina's, and supplementing them with JUCOs, you are not winning titles and competing on a national level.
 
Columbia (Lou Gehrig played there briefly) has a decent program and beat us at least once in the last few years. In some sense we compete with them for players, but I can tell you based on my experience at my kids' private school which regularly sends a number of athletes (who also could have gone to D1 scholarship schools) to Ivy league and other academic elites, that kids looking to go to an elite academic school like Columbia where "baseball scholarships" are not allowed (other financial aid is made available as appropriate) are usually looking for something different than a large State U (that is not as elite as UVA, Michigan or UNC for example) and often come from a different demographic than where most of our kids come from.
 
If you are more familiar with football recruiting than baseball recruiting will sound like a defeatist attitude, but here is how it goes:

Your top players in any northern school are also going to be recruited by the southern powers. You are competing with the Virginia's, Vandy's and UNC's on a yearly basis for the blue chippers. If there are 5 of those kids a year, Rutgers has to gun for 1 of those kids a year (and hope they pan out). But selling a top prospect on a cold state where they can't practice outdoors before the season is tough.

Rutgers has to get those next tier kids who project as strong players and develop them, but you can't bank on landing a 5 star prospect.

You will never get those studs from Florida or Texas or even Virginia. So you have to get the best kids you can from NJ, eastern PA, NYC/Long Island, and maybe Delaware. Rutgers has done a great job of Middlesex, Monmouth, Ocean and Union Counties. Hopefully they can pick it up in the South Jersey areas near Gloucester. Morris and Bergen counties have good players, but you seriously compete with Seton Hall and St Johns there.
 
Pequannock's Jordan Tabakman went to North Carolina. After a year, he wasn't all the coaches thought they were getting. Scholarship money was reduced. Tabakman ends up at UConn. Southern schools play to win with no hesitation of sending kids packing if they can do better with another player. That type of hard ball doesn't occur here.
 
If I recall, Todd Frazier picked us over Miami. How did we pull that off?
 
His older brother Jeff was at Rutgers and another brother would have gone to RU had he not signed with the pros I believe. Other than that we wouldn't have gotten him I'm sure. We virtually never get kids who have schollie offers from top programs, especially those in the south. What's amazing is how Fred Hill did so well with only a few top HS recruits on each team and almost no pitchers who threw in the 90s (Brownlie was a great exception and he ended up a 1st round pick). Hill was a great developer of talent and teacher of fundamentals - his teams' fielding %s were almost always top notch.
 
Originally posted by Mr_Twister:

At the Div-1 level, if you are not recruiting baseball players from states likes Florida, California, Texas, Virginia, Georgia, and the Carolina's, and supplementing them with JUCOs, you are not winning titles and competing on a national level.
You can win with all NJ players,
 
Originally posted by zappaa:


Originally posted by Mr_Twister:

At the Div-1 level, if you are not recruiting baseball players from states likes Florida, California, Texas, Virginia, Georgia, and the Carolina's, and supplementing them with JUCOs, you are not winning titles and competing on a national level.
You can win with all NJ players,
Is that with the premise that the best NJ players, especially pitchers, don't head to Southern/warm weather programs?
 
Originally posted by Mr_Twister:
Originally posted by zappaa:


Originally posted by Mr_Twister:

At the Div-1 level, if you are not recruiting baseball players from states likes Florida, California, Texas, Virginia, Georgia, and the Carolina's, and supplementing them with JUCOs, you are not winning titles and competing on a national level.
You can win with all NJ players,
Is that with the premise that the best NJ players, especially pitchers, don't head to Southern/warm weather programs?
For the most part…yes. My only point twister, is if you kept our best NJ high school baseball players home, we could play with anyone…sound familiar?
It really is a broken record, the same would apply to basketball, Lax, and obviously football, it's the 40 year old argument I've had with people all over the US since my first year in the minor leagues, 1975!

Can every state say that, many can…but I'll go to my grave thinking our best Jersey boys will whip your ass.
 
Does RU recruit in MA?

I know MA is not considered a hotbed of baseball talent, but there are quite a few good players up here who go to top Division I programs. Vandy has three kids from MA, Clemson has a couple, and Virginia Tech, also a state school, has 5 kids from MA. Those are just the ones I know about.

What about CT?

My son plays on a youth travel team based up here. Last year we played a team out of CT. There were coaches in attendance from BC, UConn, UMass, and a couple smaller New England schools to check out a kid from CT. He had just turned 16 and hit two monster home runs against us in the game, one of which traveled about 420 feet and hit the steps in front of a triple decker beyond the right center field fence. Here's the real kicker: I was talking to a coach on their team post game and he has also drawn interest from Seton Hall.

If he is on SHU's radar, is he on RU's? Or is this region not a concern and they don't bother with it?
 
RU rarely has players from New England- though JJ Jennings, from MA, the great back in the early 70s, I believe also played baseball. We also had a recruit (a pitcher I believe) from NH a number of years back who showed up for a week or so, and then made it to pro ball. We had a kid (Hispanic surname-I can't remember what his name was) who was a decent hitter from, I believe Bridgeport Ct about 10-15 years ago who as a Frosh in a few Fall games hit a bunch of HRs, but never repeated that. We may have had another player or two from CT in the last 30 years but I can't remember offhand. We've had a number of players from NY and a few from PA, and an outfielder from Broward country FL about 25 years ago (St Thomas Aquinas, I believe), but the overwhelming # of kids are from NJ. RU's limited budget and inferior facilities (other than the field surface, which is great) are the primary reason for the limited scope of our recruiting and our inability to get quality players from out of the area.
 
Originally posted by zappaa:


Originally posted by Mr_Twister:

At the Div-1 level, if you are not recruiting baseball players from states likes Florida, California, Texas, Virginia, Georgia, and the Carolina's, and supplementing them with JUCOs, you are not winning titles and competing on a national level.
You can win with all NJ players,
 
I thought Litterio did a decent job last year but I never understood why he was named the permanent HC when Hill could not continue. IMO he should have been given the job on an interim basis. He would have had a leg up based on last year. At the end of the day, another less than desirable coaching search to fill a potentially attractive position.
 
The top states for baseball talent are (livestrong.com)
CAL
Fla
Georgia
Texas
Ariz
NC

I doubt if we kept EVERY NJ kid home that we would win a NC...but we MIGHT be better

besides...isnt that old "keep every NJ kid home" thing getting old

aint happening
 
Didn't SUNY Stony Brook go to the CWS a few years ago? How did they do it? With Long Island kids or recruits from all over?
 
Columbia recruits nationally and they have a "type" they look for. They have an excellent coach in Brett Boretti who played at Davidson and has done an excellent job selling the program and its academic excellence. He will not compete for the "5 star" recruits but he gets very strong players who can compete with top tier programs. They also have nice facilities. The difference between Columbia and top 25 programs is depth - particularly pitching. They simply cannot go 35 deep as top tier teams do.

The Big Ten is actually getting stronger, although it is impossible to compete with warm weather conferences. Maryland has built a strong program and Michigan has committed a great deal to the program. With Indiana and Nebraska and potentially Ohio State the conference is improving.

As always with Rutgers facilities are a major problem. DiamondNation holds its very high end Super 17 tournament each June. Over 100 college and pro scouts in attendance. All of the teams complain if they have to play a game off site at Rutgers. The facility is truly embarrassing.
 
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