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Whipping Boys

Randal7

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Jul 23, 2009
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Has the B1G done itself a competitive disservice by creating perennial "Whipping Boys" in the conference?

I am not exonerating Rutgers for the dreadful performance this weekend. But irrespective of that performance, there is a situation in the conference that I think deserves some attention -- that is the systematic degradation by fellow fans and the conference administration of the "bottom dwellers".

We see it now while we struggle -- our B1G brethren have nothing but contempt for us as we try to climb out of the depths and make our way. The "automatic W" which everyone pencils into their schedule for Illinois, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana -- it's not only a terrible standard for building a competitive conference, it's a horrible way to perpetuate the brand.

The way we are represented by B1G fans, the financial "arrangement" we are tied to (if you can call it that), and the way we are brought to the alter for slaughter week in and week out is indicative of this whipping boy arrangement. And we know that if Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State had it their way, we would suck forever! It's in their best interest for us to be what we are.

This Whipping Boy role is one we must climb out of, and FAST, lest it become a permanent fixture in this conference. We've barely maintained credibility the last couple of years with some close victories against other whipping boys in our bunch.

Other P5 conferences have no such thing -- they have no such concept as 5 teams which perennially get their asses kicked, their states looted of talent, their fan bases / programs / schools disparaged.

I am thankful we found a conference to join that is as illustrious and notable as the big ten. And I know we have to hold up our end of the bargain by fielding a competitive team. I just thought we would get some more support from our big ten brethren, not a kick to the ribs while we are down.

If this continues, our fanbase will become even more insulated from the b1g then we already are. And we'll need to do it for our own preservation.
 
Other P5 conferences have no such thing -- they have no such concept as 5 teams which perennially get their asses kicked, their states looted of talent, their fan bases / programs / schools disparaged.


WHAT??? I guess you don't watch much CFB. There were a TON of schools who couldn't win a damn thing and never went to bowl games in the SEC, PAc-12, Big 12 and ACC. Some of those schools have manage to turn things around RECENTLY.
 
Other P5 conferences have no such thing -- they have no such concept as 5 teams which perennially get their asses kicked, their states looted of talent, their fan bases / programs / schools disparaged.


WHAT??? I guess you don't watch much CFB. There were a TON of schools who couldn't win a damn thing and never went to bowl games in the SEC, PAc-12, Big 12 and ACC. Some of those schools have manage to turn things around RECENTLY.

I knew somebody was going to say this.

Name 5 schools in any of those conferences who are perpetual bottom dwellers. Go ahead. And not only from a performance standpoint, but from the reputational perspective of their conference brethren.
 
Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, etc., don't want any teams to "suck forever." I'm not sure where you get that idea. Besides boredom with games that present no challenge, it's bad for their own image for the league to have weak links. I know us Terp basketball fans hated it a couple of years ago when we had to play pre-Pike Rutgers twice, because the RPI hit was so bad that we were going to likely drop in NCAA seeding no matter how much we won by. We were all thrilled the next year when Pike gave the team such a boost.

Having long-time losing teams in a conference isn't a new thing, or something unique to the B1G. Every league has them. The solution is to get better. Not easy, but it's the only answer.

ETA: also, Indiana and Purdue, for examples, have been in the B1G for decades. How did the B1G "create" them into "perennial whipping boys?"
 
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In case you didn't notice, we were just beaten by a Big 12 Whipping Boy.

I'm aware. That's actually why I got to thinking about this topic. We are basically duking it out with other whipping boys, both within our conference and in other conferences... And if the blue bloods had it their way we would know our role and keep on doing that.
 
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During the days in the Big East, Temple was the last place fixture every year. They were just about the one team we could pretty much count on for a win and to keep us out of the basement.
Keep in mind that the charter members of the BIG really didn't want any more teams in truth. It was the quickly changing landscape of college football that forced them to do what they had to do.
I remember watching the BIG channel right after it was announced that we would be joining in a year or so. DiNardo actually stated that we would be a good fit as we already had a decent football program in place! Just another guy who though Flood would keep the ship sailing to yearly bowls.
I'm afraid that we are years away from having anything close to what GS had going .
 
Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, etc., don't want any teams to "suck forever." I'm not sure where you get that idea. Besides boredom with games that present no challenge, it's bad for their own image for the league to have weak links. I know us Terp basketball fans hated it a couple of years ago when we had to play pre-Pike Rutgers twice, because the RPI hit was so bad that we were going to likely drop in NCAA seeding no matter how much we won by. We were all thrilled the next year when Pike gave the team such a boost.

Having long-time losing teams in a conference isn't a new thing, or something unique to the B1G. Every league has them. The solution is to get better. Not easy, but it's the only answer.

ETA: also, Indiana and Purdue, for examples, have been in the B1G for decades. How did the B1G "create" them into "perennial whipping boys?"

The B1G didn't create them. But the B1G is happy for them to suck forever. It's an insidiousness in the alumni fanbase of the b1g which says, "your weak, your down, you will suck forever, you don't deserve to live". But that only applies to the whipping boys. If Nebraska loses a game to toledo, or Michigan loses one to applachian state, or penn state to UVA it's, "correctable", an "aberration",.

If you don't believe me, talk to b1g fans in your office this week. Listen to what they have to say about Rutgers. And listen, WE DESERVE THE SCORN. I GET IT. We aren't a great football team this year. But a down year, a rebuild, a bad game, that doesn't make us a bad program. That doesn't descend us to the depths of B1G Hell.

What we don't deserve is the constant perpetuation that we are a whipping boy and bottom dweller forever.
 
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The B1G didn't create them. But the B1G is happy for them to suck forever. It's an insidiousness in the alumni fanbase of the b1g which says, "your weak, your down, you will suck forever, you don't deserve to live". But that only applies to the whipping boys. If Nebraska loses a game to toledo, or Michigan loses one to applachian state, or penn state to UVA it's, "correctable", an "aberration",.

If you don't believe me, talk to b1g fans in your office this week. Listen to what they have to say about Rutgers. And listen, WE DESERVE THE SCORN. I GET IT.

What we don't deserve is the constant perpetuation that we are a whipping boy and bottom dweller forever.
Has the B1G done itself a competitive disservice by creating perennial "Whipping Boys" in the conference?

I am not exonerating Rutgers for the dreadful performance this weekend. But irrespective of that performance, there is a situation in the conference that I think deserves some attention -- that is the systematic degradation by fellow fans and the conference administration of the "bottom dwellers".

We see it now while we struggle -- our B1G brethren have nothing but contempt for us as we try to climb out of the depths and make our way. The "automatic W" which everyone pencils into their schedule for Illinois, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana -- it's not only a terrible standard for building a competitive conference, it's a horrible way to perpetuate the brand.

The way we are represented by B1G fans, the financial "arrangement" we are tied to (if you can call it that), and the way we are brought to the alter for slaughter week in and week out is indicative of this whipping boy arrangement. And we know that if Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State had it their way, we would suck forever! It's in their best interest for us to be what we are.

This Whipping Boy role is one we must climb out of, and FAST, lest it become a permanent fixture in this conference. We've barely maintained credibility the last couple of years with some close victories against other whipping boys in our bunch.

Other P5 conferences have no such thing -- they have no such concept as 5 teams which perennially get their asses kicked, their states looted of talent, their fan bases / programs / schools disparaged.

I am thankful we found a conference to join that is as illustrious and notable as the big ten. And I know we have to hold up our end of the bargain by fielding a competitive team. I just thought we would get some more support from our big ten brethren, not a kick to the ribs while we are down.

If this continues, our fanbase will become even more insulated from the b1g then we already are. And we'll need to do it for our own preservation.
Funny...I was just thinking about this exact thing this morning. Glad you wrote about it.
 
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I feel your pain, Randal, honestly I do. I hate it when I read comments from other fan bases in the league that make me think they have no idea that my team (Maryland) has ever won a football game. And I agree, some teams get the benefit of the doubt when they lose, but not Rutgers or Maryland.

I just haven't given up on climbing the football ladder yet, I guess. I don't mean this as a dig, but maybe it's because Maryland has done well in the B1G overall, beyond football, that I'm not so dismal and pessimistic.

I truly believe that teams like Rutgers and Maryland can improve their standing by making better decisions and committing to success (and that the league blue-bloods would prefer this). And I'm an old, cynical guy at heart!
 
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The B1G didn't create them. But the B1G is happy for them to suck forever. It's an insidiousness in the alumni fanbase of the b1g which says, "your weak, your down, you will suck forever, you don't deserve to live". But that only applies to the whipping boys. If Nebraska loses a game to toledo, or Michigan loses one to applachian state, or penn state to UVA it's, "correctable", an "aberration",.

If you don't believe me, talk to b1g fans in your office this week. Listen to what they have to say about Rutgers. And listen, WE DESERVE THE SCORN. I GET IT.

What we don't deserve is the constant perpetuation that we are a whipping boy and bottom dweller forever.

I'm going to leave out Nebraska here because a lot of its built-in advantages aren't as relevant today as they were 25-30 years ago, but at PSU or Michigan, for example, games like the ones you mentioned are viewed as "correctable" or an "aberration" for a number of reasons. Primarily, those programs have an infrastructure that puts them ahead of most others in terms of what they need to do to be competitive in a given year, things like history; facilities; reputation; support from fans, alumni and the administration; financial wherewithal; etc. Those things are all lacking at Rutgers to varying degrees, which (a) makes it a steep, uphill climb to compete in this league and (b) causes many fans to view the program as a nonentity that won't ever compete. It's up to RU to change that.
 
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The power teams need to pad their records and stats. The wins gotta come from somewhere. I think the BIG actually prefers this. Do they want an 8-4 rutgers that can actually knock a team out of the playoffs?
No
We are the league whipping boy.
 
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It can change every few years but here are the traditional bottom Feeders in each Power conference:

SEC:

Arkansas
Mississippi State (bottom feeders for years and years, much better now)
Ole Miss (iconic bottom feeders, most fans only came for the tailgate, much better now)
Kentucky (when does basketball start?)
Vanderbilt (gold standard for SEC bottom feeders, were good only under Franklin)

Big 12:
Kansas (when does basketball start?)
Baylor (bottom feeders for years and years, got good when they started cheating, are now going back to being crap again)
Iowa State
Texas tech (Texas Tech Problem is named after them)
Oklahoma State (were really bad for a long time, are much better now)

Pac-12:
Oregon State
Washington State (used to be terrible for a long time, they are ok at best now)
Cal (were unwatchable forever, started to turn things around a bit)

Pac-12 had a lot of bad teams, but most on on the raise now.

ACC:
Boston College
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Virginia
Duke (were terrible for decades, have gotten a lot better these past few years)
 
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I feel your pain, Randal, honestly I do. I hate it when I read comments from other fan bases in the league that make me think they have no idea that my team (Maryland) has ever won a football game. And I agree, some teams get the benefit of the doubt when they lose, but not Rutgers or Maryland.

I just haven't given up on climbing the football ladder yet, I guess. I don't mean this as a dig, but maybe it's because Maryland has done well in the B1G overall, beyond football, that I'm not so dismal and pessimistic.

I truly believe that teams like Rutgers and Maryland can improve their standing by making better decisions and committing to success (and that the league blue-bloods would prefer this). And I'm an old, cynical guy at heart!

I'm pleased that you can, at least, appreciate the vantage point (because you've lived it just like we have). Maryland has played in, and won, some very notable games since joining the B1G. Hell, you guys beat PSU at home, and Michigan at the Big House. You are a flagship University in a state which is bustling with commerce and growing. And yet, we are treated like crap, and why?

Well, the blue bloods need our in-state talent. We are essentially the breeding ground. They need the Haskins of the world. And if that means considering our state like their own back yard, and ripping us in the media, perpetually downplaying our relevancy, then they'll do it. They'll do it every day of the week and twice on sunday.

I agree that our efforts, ultimately, is our only hope. It's clear the conference isn't going to lend a hand. We need to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and get on with it. We will. I am sure of that. But it won't be because anybody helped us.

And, I should say, Thank you Maryland for going on this journey with us. You brought us in with you, now we're going to rise together, and hopefully one day this reputation, as unfair as it is, is only a chip on our shoulder and not an inherent disadvantage
 
It can change every few years but here are the traditional bottom Feeders in each Power conference:

SEC:

Arkansas
Mississippi State (bottom feeders for years and years, much better now)
Ole Miss (iconic bottom feeders, most fans only came for the tailgate, much better now)
Kentucky (when does basketball start?)
Vanderbilt (gold standard for SEC bottom feeders, were good only under Franklin)

Big 12:
Kansas (when does basketball start?)
Baylo
r (bottom feeders for years and years, got good when they started cheating, are now going back to being crap again)
Iowa State
Texas tech (Texas Tech Problem is named after them)
Oklahoma State (were really bad for a long time, are much better now)

Pac-12:
Oregon State
Washington State (used to be terrible for a long time, they are ok at best now)
Cal (were unwatchable forever, started to turn things around a bit)

Pac-12 had a lot of bad teams, but most on on the raise now.

ACC:
Boston College
Wake Forest
Syracuse
Virginia
Duke (were terrible for decades, have gotten a lot better these past few years)

I think you reached on ALOT of those teams. I'll give ya partial credit. And even those teams who are solidly and objectively bottom dwellers from both a performance but also a reputational perspective (i've bolded), which of those teams is hated by people within their own conference?
 
I think you reached on ALOT of those teams. I'll give ya partial credit. And even those teams who are solidly and objectively bottom dwellers from both a performance but also a reputational perspective (i've bolded), which of those teams is hated by people within their own conference?

Other than some Penn State fans, which teams/fans around the B1G "hate" Rutgers? It seems like you're looking for excuses as to why RU has struggled - "It's clear the conference isn't going to lend a hand," was another comment of yours - rather than owning the fact that there is very little positive to point to in regards to RU football. That has to be fixed from the inside. A full B1G share isn't going to be a magic pill either.
 
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Other than some Penn State fans, which teams/fans around the B1G "hate" Rutgers? It seems like you're looking for excuses as to why RU has struggled - "It's clear the conference isn't going to lend a hand," was another comment of yours - rather than owning the fact that there is very little positive to point to in regards to RU football. That has to be fixed from the inside. A full B1G share isn't going to be a magic pill either.

Michigan and PSU fans are the worst, your point there is well taken. They treat us like we don't deserve to live, and its awful because they populate our cities, our company boardrooms and are littered throughout our communities. They hate Rutgers yet they reside in NJ. And they find no irony in that. They'll $hit all over us, no matter the relationship. It's rough.

Now, as for the conference "at large", I think you are right that other teams don't hate us, they just don't respect what we bring. How many times have you heard,

"All Rutgers brought were TV sets"

"The Big Ten tournament at MSG was a big mistake"

"You lost to Rutgers?! WOW, you really DO suck" (this comment was made to Bret Bielema's twitter in 2013 by many Wisconsin fans when we beat them, before we even joined the conference.)

I know what I'm asserting may sound like an excuse. I don't want it to be. I don't think we've held up our end of the bargain by fielding a competitive squad. Which created this situation. It created an environment where we are looked at as a non-entity. And now we've gotta fight our way out of end, before it becomes an inherent problem.
 
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Michigan and PSU fans are the worst, your point there is well taken. They treat us like we don't deserve to live, and its awful because they populate our cities, our company boardrooms and are littered throughout our communities. They hate Rutgers yet they reside in NJ. And they find no irony in that. They'll $hit all over us, no matter the relationship. It's rough.

Now, as for the conference "at large", I think you are right that other teams don't hate us, they just don't respect what we bring. How many times have you heard,

"All Rutgers brought were TV sets"

"The Big Ten tournament at MSG was a big mistake"

"You lost to Rutgers?! WOW, you really DO suck" (this comment was made to Bret Bielema's twitter in 2013 by many Wisconsin fans when we beat them, before we even joined the conference.)

I know what I'm asserting may sound like an excuse. I don't want it to be. I don't think we've held up our end of the bargain by fielding a competitive squad. Which created this situation. It created an environment where we are looked at as a non-entity. And now we've gotta fight our way out of end, before it becomes an inherent problem.

Fair enough.

I don't see any irony in NJ natives disliking Rutgers. I wouldn't expect an RU grad who moved to Philly or Pittsburgh to start wearing blue and white all the time. In fact, judging by the comments I often read on this board, it would be absurd to expect said RU grad to start liking PSU.

As for your second point, if fans around the league disregard RU's contribution to the B1G, is that disrespect or, as of 9/17/2018, simply the truth?

Ultimately, again, it's up to Rutgers to change the perception/reality.
 
Beating Penn State in 2014 would have gone a long way (Gary Nova 5 INT's). Beating Michigan State in 2015 would have put us in Maryland's current neighborhood. Beat Iowa in 2016...does anyone notice a trend? STOP LOSING THE GAMES THAT ARE BEING HANDED TO US!
 
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Beating Penn State in 2014 would have gone a long way (Gary Nova 5 INT's). Beating Michigan State in 2015 would have put us in Maryland's current neighborhood.

I'm not sure. A single result likely wouldn't have changed the fundamental problems with RU athletics/football.
 
I knew somebody was going to say this.

Name 5 schools in any of those conferences who are perpetual bottom dwellers. Go ahead. And not only from a performance standpoint, but from the reputational perspective of their conference brethren.

Kansas, Oregon St., Illinois, Washington St., Syracuse. Runners up : Vanderbilt ( save 2102 & 2013 under James Franklin) and Texas Tech.
 
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Its going to be difficult to keep the momentum going even after good seasons. That takes fan support and recruits. Rutgers needs a leader, someone who can sell the program. Might be too soon to label Ash a failure because he could still grow into that role.
 
No school hates Rutgers. Penn State wanted Rutgers in the Big Ten for years and was one of our biggest supporters for joining. As were OSU and Michigan and MSU. Every school voted YES to get Rutgers membership.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, you are just projecting.

The fan bases are a different story.

But in all other conferences, the fan bases all HATE each other. It called College Football!
 
No school hates Rutgers. Penn State wanted Rutgers in the Big Ten for years and was one of our biggest supporters for joining. As were OSU and Michigan and MSU. Every school voted YES to get Rutgers membership.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, you are just projecting.

The fan bases are a different story.

But in all other conferences, the fan bases all HATE each other. It called College Football!


Best post in this thread.
 
I agree with the OP's basic premise. The B1G does need to address having OSU, PSU, and Michigan in the same division at some point. It simply doesn't make any sense competitive wise and my gut feeling is that the only way it changes is if those 3 programs decide they want it changed, not from the bottom feeders in the division complaining.
 
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I knew somebody was going to say this.

Name 5 schools in any of those conferences who are perpetual bottom dwellers. Go ahead. And not only from a performance standpoint, but from the reputational perspective of their conference brethren.

Every conference has punching bags. Here are the bottom 6 SEC teams in conference play:
Vanderbilt: 137-409-19 (.259)
Joined league: 1933

Kentucky: 166-339-12 (.332)
Joined league: 1933

Mississippi State: 188-359-13 (.347)
Joined league: 1933

Arkansas: 86-112-2 (.435)
Joined league: 1992

South Carolina: 89-110-1 (.448)
Joined league: 1992

Ole Miss: 257-273-25 (.486)
Joined league: 1933
 
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Clearly you don't understand the dynamics of the problem.

I won't claim to understand the issues more than RU fans, but in my eyes, the problems begin with the president of the university and the culture at Rutgers as it relates to athletics' relationship, especially that of the football program, with the university. Combined with starting behind peer programs in terms of financial support, that's a tough problem to fix.
 
I agree with the OP's basic premise. The B1G does need to address having OSU, PSU, and Michigan in the same division at some point. It simply doesn't make any sense competitive wise and my gut feeling is that the only way it changes is if those 3 programs decide they want it changed, not from the bottom feeders in the division complaining.

The easy way to fix it is to move one of the Michigan schools over to the West, have them play a protected crossover game, and put Purdue in the East.
 
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The easy way to fix it is to move one of the Michigan schools over to the West, have them play a protected crossover game, and put Purdue in the East.

The Original plan was this

Big Ten East:

OSU
UM
PSU
UP
UI
RU
UMD

But, MSU didn't want to be in the West division, fought it and got their way.
 
Has the B1G done itself a competitive disservice by creating perennial "Whipping Boys" in the conference?

I am not exonerating Rutgers for the dreadful performance this weekend. But irrespective of that performance, there is a situation in the conference that I think deserves some attention -- that is the systematic degradation by fellow fans and the conference administration of the "bottom dwellers".

We see it now while we struggle -- our B1G brethren have nothing but contempt for us as we try to climb out of the depths and make our way. The "automatic W" which everyone pencils into their schedule for Illinois, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana -- it's not only a terrible standard for building a competitive conference, it's a horrible way to perpetuate the brand.

The way we are represented by B1G fans, the financial "arrangement" we are tied to (if you can call it that), and the way we are brought to the alter for slaughter week in and week out is indicative of this whipping boy arrangement. And we know that if Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State had it their way, we would suck forever! It's in their best interest for us to be what we are.

This Whipping Boy role is one we must climb out of, and FAST, lest it become a permanent fixture in this conference. We've barely maintained credibility the last couple of years with some close victories against other whipping boys in our bunch.

Other P5 conferences have no such thing -- they have no such concept as 5 teams which perennially get their asses kicked, their states looted of talent, their fan bases / programs / schools disparaged.

I am thankful we found a conference to join that is as illustrious and notable as the big ten. And I know we have to hold up our end of the bargain by fielding a competitive team. I just thought we would get some more support from our big ten brethren, not a kick to the ribs while we are down.

If this continues, our fanbase will become even more insulated from the b1g then we already are. And we'll need to do it for our own preservation.
The Big Ten has created perennial whipping boys? How? By equally sharing all the revenue? By not forcing the bottom feeders to make the right hires? Or invest in assistant coaches? Or invest in facilities? By not forcing recruits to attend their schools?

Fun fact about your bottom feeders: Purdue and Illinois have won conference titles more recently than the following: Tennessee, Ole Miss, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Arkansas, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Nebraska, Texas A&M, Missouri, Kansas, Texas Tech, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Arizona, and UCLA.

Rutgers isn't getting a bad deal. They're getting the deal. You think the BTN just appeared one day, fully formed and fully paid for? 11 schools invested in it, they're just asking those that are going to benefit, and benefit greatly from it, to invest as well.


59e2d09dc4889.image.jpg
 
And we know that if Michigan, Penn State, and Ohio State had it their way, we would suck forever! It's in their best interest for us to be what we are.

I disagree with this on one point. OSU fans absolutely want the teams around them to be competitive, I believe this from the way they've treated us since we entered. I think they strongly prefer beating a competitive Michigan than a worn down one.

Michigan and PSU fans however, absolutely carry the attitude you've described. They live in their own heads and would love to see the entire conference suck with them on top if possible.

But those are the fans, not conference administrators. And the league administrators can't really make things any easier for us, eventually we have to start putting in the effort to get better. They really slammed us with Wisconsin and Nebraska as seemingly permanent fixtures on our schedule. But other than that, how exactly have they made things harder for us than any other new member?
 
The Big Ten has created perennial whipping boys? How? By equally sharing all the revenue? By not forcing the bottom feeders to make the right hires? Or invest in assistant coaches? Or invest in facilities? By not forcing recruits to attend their schools?

Fun fact about your bottom feeders: Purdue and Illinois have won conference titles more recently than the following: Tennessee, Ole Miss, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Arkansas, South Carolina, Vanderbilt, Nebraska, Texas A&M, Missouri, Kansas, Texas Tech, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Arizona, and UCLA.

Rutgers isn't getting a bad deal. They're getting the deal. You think the BTN just appeared one day, fully formed and fully paid for? 11 schools invested in it, they're just asking those that are going to benefit, and benefit greatly from it, to invest as well.


59e2d09dc4889.image.jpg

I understand that there's an investment -- in dollars, in time, in effort, and in alumni engagement. And (I think) I speak for everyone in this fanbase when I say, we're happy to make that investment, and we understand the value.

Here's where I think you are misunderstanding me though -- it's not simply a dollars and cents issue. It's a hubris that the fanbases have which relegates certain teams to the margins. You defend Purdue and Illinois -- yet if you lost to either of them in football, what would your fanbase do? Hold a candle light vigil and pray for the safety of the coach? That's not even touching a loss to Rutgers. We know what happens when you lose to us (it's only happened once -- in hoops) -- you straight up fired your coach.

Don't be so self righteous man. We know your the big dog. We know we should be thankful to be here (and we are). But that doesn't mean we appreciate you poaching our state talent when it suites you at the 11th hour and beating us down 66-0, all with a smug empathy and a shallow comment -- "oh, well, if only you had better talent and coaching"

Why would anyone be happy about that?
 
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I disagree with this on one point. OSU fans absolutely want the teams around them to be competitive, I believe this from the way they've treated us since we entered. I think they strongly prefer beating a competitive Michigan than a worn down one.

Michigan and PSU fans however, absolutely carry the attitude you've described. They live in their own heads and would love to see the entire conference suck with them on top if possible.

But those are the fans, not conference administrators. And the league administrators can't really make things any easier for us, eventually we have to start putting in the effort to get better. They really slammed us with Wisconsin and Nebraska as seemingly permanent fixtures on our schedule. But other than that, how exactly have they made things harder for us than any other new member?

You are right -- on further inspection it's predominantly the fans who have perpetuated this sense of being a whipping boy. But that matters. It matters in recruiting, in matters in team building, it matters when little timmy, tommy, jane or sally goes to school. You hear your uncles, cousins, "friends of the family" talking about how small time Rutgers is, it certainly doesn't help. We ALL KNOW THAT THIS EXISTS. We all know these people do this stuff. There's absolutely no denying it.
 
Michigan and PSU fans however, absolutely carry the attitude you've described. They live in their own heads and would love to see the entire conference suck with them on top if possible.

I'm just one PSU fun, of course, but here are my thoughts on the rest of the B1G:

I don't actively root against any teams in the West division or hope that they suck. In our division, there's certainly no love lost for OSU, Michigan and MSU; I have no problem with Indiana succeeding when we're not playing them; and yes, I prefer Rutgers and Maryland to struggle primarily because they're in two of PSU's prime recruiting areas.

But all of that strikes me more as just being a fan than anything personal against Rutgers, either the university or the athletics department.
 
I'm just one PSU fun, of course, but here are my thoughts on the rest of the B1G:

I don't actively root against any teams in the West division or hope that they suck. In our division, there's certainly no love lost for OSU, Michigan and MSU; I have no problem with Indiana succeeding when we're not playing them; and yes, I prefer Rutgers and Maryland to struggle primarily because they're in two of PSU's prime recruiting areas.

But all of that strikes me more as just being a fan than anything personal against Rutgers, either the university or the athletics department.

When you say "struggle", you mean to remain completely irrelevant. The more irrelevant, the better. So it's not just about embarrassing us on the field, it's about reducing our credibility off of it as well. We know what you do. My friends who went to PSU did it this weekend. And you know how we respond. I won't get into it, but we all know the deal.
 
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Before the expansion era the Big 10 was known foe decades as the Big 2 and the Little 8. So why is now any different?


And, if we go back even further, the former Big 8 was know as the big 2 (Nebraska and Oklahoma) and the little six. The southwest conference, before it gobbled up the big 8, was known as Texas and everybody else.
 
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The easy way to fix it is to move one of the Michigan schools over to the West, have them play a protected crossover game, and put Purdue in the East.


Or maybe move PSU ( I don't think they have a traditional rivalry game with any one school, everyone simply hates them) to the west and Purdue east. Then each year in the east division the Mich schools and OSU play each other, Purdue play Indy, RU plays Maryland, and in the west Ill plays NU, Wiscy gets it's Minny, Iowa gets Nebby and you don't need any protected crossovers so they can balance the non division games on a regular rotating basis.
 
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