Why do people bring up HC Schiano 1.0?

NickRU714

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Both positive and negative.
Who cares?
It doesn't matter.
All that matters at this point is how 2020 and forward are going.
Why is there so much living in the past?

If he won the Big East 3 times - we still have one of the worst offenses in the country and don't appear to have a path forward towards fixing it.

If he wins the Big Ten next year - he still wouldn't have won the watered down Big East.

Do other fanbases bring up other prior when defending/criticizing their HC?
Did Nebraska fans defend Frost by bringing up UCF?
 

krup

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When you are trying to evaluate where a coach has his team at year 3 after taking over a program that was one of (if not the) worst in the FBS, it would pretty f**king dumb to not compare against when the same coach had the same team in year 3 in a previous tenure when he took them over at a time they were one of (if not the) worst in the FBS.

If you think that is the same as comparing how a coach did at a different school, you are nuts.
 

RUGuitarMan

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Schiano is a fundamental coach. His approach to trying to fix the mess was to first get the defense competitive, especially the DL. I think a solid approach. The OL has been more difficult, with adding the recent transfers and signing 7 freshmen in the past class. Most who were analyzing this year knew it would be a transitional year, with many inexperienced players on the roster. I think many thoought a 4-8 season was very possible. Some may view that “the youth” argument is an excuse, however it is reflection of the reality of the roster.
 
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zappaa

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Schiano is a fundamental coach. His approach to trying to fix the mess was to first get the defense competitive, especially the DL. I think a solid approach. The OL has been more difficult, with adding the recent transfers and signing 7 freshmen in the past class. Most who were analyzing this year knew it would be a transitional year, with many inexperienced players on the roster. I think many thoought a 4-8 season was very possible. Some may view that “the youth” argument is an excuse, however it is reflection of the reality of the roster.
Nothing explains multiple illegal formations, going off sides 5 weeks in a row on kickoffs, and the snails pace, slow developing out of sync offense we run.
Not to mention the inane, constant substitutions
 

Knight Shift

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Nothing explains multiple illegal formations, going off sides 5 weeks in a row on kickoffs, and the snails pace, slow developing out of sync offense we run.
Not to mention the inane, constant substitutions
IMHO, Gleeson (and maybe Greg is responsible) is overthinking things and making it too complicated. Too many QBs playing, particularly when the QBs are switched in a single set of downs. Nebraska has the worst defense in the B1G. They are last in rushing defense and close to last on passing defense. Put Simon in there, hand the ball off to Brown and Monangai, make them respect the run and pass the ball. It's not that complicated.
 

zappaa

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IMHO, Gleeson (and maybe Greg is responsible) is overthinking things and making it too complicated. Too many QBs playing, particularly when the QBs are switched in a single set of downs. Nebraska has the worst defense in the B1G. They are last in rushing defense and close to last on passing defense. Put Simon in there, hand the ball off to Brown and Monangai, make them respect the run and pass the ball. It's not that complicated.
Not happening.
You’ll see a strong dose of #0
And an endless array of personnel.
Aaron Young will soon be added to the packages, GS “ we need him”
 

NickRU714

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When you are trying to evaluate where a coach has his team at year 3 after taking over a program that was one of (if not the) worst in the FBS, it would pretty f**king dumb to not compare against when the same coach had the same team in year 3 in a previous tenure when he took them over at a time they were one of (if not the) worst in the FBS.

If you think that is the same as comparing how a coach did at a different school, you are nuts.

How is it the same team?
Because the jerseys say "Rutgers"?

Different players
Different coaches
Different conference
Different schedules
Different CFB environment


Schiano 1.0 was when people loved "Northeast football" and mocked "gimmick Big 12 offenses".
Ohio State lead all of CFB in scoring last year.

How does HC Schiano never winning the Big East 15 years ago impact how the 2022 Rutgers football team is going to perform?

As opposed to using the last 2 years.
 

krup

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Completely different recruiting and player movement scenarios this time around.
Not to mention a 100x better league.
Not comparable.
Had no portal or NIL arrived, I believe GS could reproduce the 2006 team.
No chance of this 2.0 imo
Zap-

There are definitely a lot of differences between Schiano 1.0 and now (B1G schedule, portal, NIL), but there are a lot of similarities as well. He took over a program that had driven all but a tiny niche of dedicated fan support, the talent level in the program was well below the teams in the league we are playing in, improved the defense and special teams first, etc).

But, when I say you should compare with his first tenure I mean the good and the bad.

Nothing tells me yet that he won’t be able to get the team to where they are pretty competitive against most of our schedule, led by the defense. Unfortunately, nothing tells me his team will ever have a powerful offense, avoid a WTF game against a weaker team in our schedule either, and the right offensive style can always tear apart his defense (Cincinnati could do it consistently back then).

The hire after Schiano 2.0 (however many years in the future that is will be huge). He will have set up a team that is poised to win if taken over by a better game day coach. Hopefully we don’t shit the bed like we did with the Flood hire. Nobody will be able to convince me that wasn’t a team that could have won a couple of BE/AAC championships with the right coach.
 
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RU848789

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When you are trying to evaluate where a coach has his team at year 3 after taking over a program that was one of (if not the) worst in the FBS, it would pretty f**king dumb to not compare against when the same coach had the same team in year 3 in a previous tenure when he took them over at a time they were one of (if not the) worst in the FBS.

If you think that is the same as comparing how a coach did at a different school, you are nuts.
Couldn't have said it better.
 
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rufeelinit

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And still not a great game day coach who probably tinkers too much in areas that he should not.
 

bitnez

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If we’re not using performance prior to the NIL world to look at what a coach can do, or if that coach is on the right developmental track, then just be consistent. It must apply equally to all coaches.
 

brgRC90

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How does HC Schiano never winning the Big East 15 years ago impact how the 2022 Rutgers football team is going to perform?

As opposed to using the last 2 years.
Because it gives an idea of how he's going to perform this time around. Since when is a coach's prior job performance irrelevant to the job? It's the reason they get hired in the first place. And his second time on the job is looking an awful lot like his first time.
 
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yesrutgers01

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Comparing has more to do with bring the program up out of the dead. He has done that again- and while we do not have the wins or even the signature win under 2.0- he is compared because this is the 2nd time he has had to do this for us.
The question is- can he now get the team playing in this conference they way he got the team playing that their conference during 1.0
Or- is the program building (In NJ/Rutgers) his best talent.

So, it is fair and it is why we talk about it. So far, it is very similar to the start of 1.0

With that said- it is now getting concerning with NIL. Will Greg figure it out? Will he go deep into the dark grey areas
Will Rutgers support it? Will boosters?
 

NotInRHouse

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Both positive and negative.
Who cares?
It doesn't matter.
All that matters at this point is how 2020 and forward are going.
Why is there so much living in the past?

If he won the Big East 3 times - we still have one of the worst offenses in the country and don't appear to have a path forward towards fixing it.

If he wins the Big Ten next year - he still wouldn't have won the watered down Big East.

Do other fanbases bring up other prior when defending/criticizing their HC?
Did Nebraska fans defend Frost by bringing up UCF?

About 10% of posters here or so just hate the guy, always will, win or lose, that's reflected in the criticism and then the majority that like him push back.

When he was here the first time it was that he didn't win by enough points, his offense wasn't interesting enough, he didn't kiss butts, and my personal favorite was that he was personally responsible for the infamous Townsend drop. Though my second favorite will always be the posters who insist he wasn't a play away from winning the BE in 08 and 2011. Oh, and someone will inevitably respond to this post insisting he was in fact responsible for the drop.

I am no psychologist so I leave it to everyone at large as to what riles up that 10% in a way that could weirdly never dislike Flood or Ash, who really deserved it.
 

dconifer

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About 10% of posters here or so just hate the guy, always will, win or lose, that's reflected in the criticism and then the majority that like him push back.

When he was here the first time it was that he didn't win by enough points, his offense wasn't interesting enough, he didn't kiss butts, and my personal favorite was that he was personally responsible for the infamous Townsend drop. Though my second favorite will always be the posters who insist he wasn't a play away from winning the BE in 08 and 2011. Oh, and someone will inevitably respond to this post insisting he was in fact responsible for the drop.

I am no psychologist so I leave it to everyone at large as to what riles up that 10% in a way that could weirdly never dislike Flood or Ash, who really deserved it.
I am so curious about this that I hope somebody does respond...
 

NotInRHouse

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I am so curious about this that I hope somebody does respond...

Fret not, when it comes to irrational hatred towards the guy that single handedly revived the program this board will never disappoint.

Just yesterday we learned that his wins in the BE don't count at all because it's no longer a P5 conference. A new reason each day! I mean Louisville is in the ACC now but who cares?

There's always a new but wholly irrational ground for hate and contempt. You have to give the hate cult that much, they are creative.
 

DJ Spanky

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Just yesterday we learned that his wins in the BE don't count at all because it's no longer a P5 conference.

Doncha just love that one? Who in their right mind would argue that?

Look at the lineup in 2006-2007: the Big East had multiple Top 10 teams in that group.

Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
West Virginia
 

dconifer

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Doncha just love that one? Who in their right mind would argue that?

Look at the lineup in 2006-2007: the Big East had multiple Top 10 teams in that group.

Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
South Florida
Syracuse
West Virginia
I think there is a lot of revision of history about Big East football. It was a pretty good league, in my opinion, but that's not something heard very often nowadays...
 

yesrutgers01

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I think there is a lot of revision of history about Big East football. It was a pretty good league, in my opinion, but that's not something heard very often nowadays...
The mid 2000's BE, even after losing Mia VaTech, was a damn good BCS conference.
What made it good? Well, it usually had one or two teams that were in the top 10-15 but the real key, year to year- it was from top to bottom, pretty solid.
Maybe our top teams were not NC teams but the middle of our conference paired up with the middle of others and the bottom of our conference was usually better than the bottom of others.
A lot of this bore out when bowls games came and we usually did well against all the other BCS conferences.
 

DJ Spanky

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I think there is a lot of revision of history about Big East football.

Yup. Because it's no longer around, people can make up what they want about it.

The mid 2000's BE, even after losing Mia VaTech, was a damn good BCS conference.
What made it good? Well, it usually had one or two teams that were in the top 10-15 but the real key, year to year- it was from top to bottom, pretty solid.

Particularly once Rutgers and Yukon climbed the ladder, it was a very potent league.
 
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RU848789

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The mid 2000's BE, even after losing Mia VaTech, was a damn good BCS conference.
What made it good? Well, it usually had one or two teams that were in the top 10-15 but the real key, year to year- it was from top to bottom, pretty solid.
Maybe our top teams were not NC teams but the middle of our conference paired up with the middle of others and the bottom of our conference was usually better than the bottom of others.
A lot of this bore out when bowls games came and we usually did well against all the other BCS conferences.
The BE was ranked in the top 2-3 conferences most of those years (2nd in 2006, iirc) including being ahead of the B1G at times. That's by computers with no bias (or at least not human bias based on perception).
 

yesrutgers01

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The BE was ranked in the top 2-3 conferences most of those years (2nd in 2006, iirc) including being ahead of the B1G at times. That's by computers with no bias (or at least not human bias based on perception).
Correct- both the B1G and ACC...But no one ever wanted to admit it.
Our 06 team could have had a real chance against anyone that year
07 had talent but we were paper thing
08 that slow start but we could have had a chance against anyone that year from the Pitt game on...
 

mildone

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Fret not, when it comes to irrational hatred towards the guy that single handedly revived the program this board will never disappoint.

Just yesterday we learned that his wins in the BE don't count at all because it's no longer a P5 conference. A new reason each day! I mean Louisville is in the ACC now but who cares?

There's always a new but wholly irrational ground for hate and contempt. You have to give the hate cult that much, they are creative.
I think fans loving or hating a sports coach at all, under any circumstance purely related to sports, is irrational. Family and close friends, sure. Everybody else? Seems weirdly misplaced, very one-way, emotional bonding.

I have zero hate or love for GS, Flood or Ash. I don't have the sort of relationship with any of them that would warrant such strong emotions.

People use the terms hate and love when maybe they don't really mean them. If what they really feel is like/dislike, but they're using stronger terms for emphasis, then okay. But actual love and hate? Don't get it.
 

djrc89

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Neither love nor hate. Just like in politics it seems that the most noise and energy is at the extremes. I think greg has plusses and minuses. In fact I’d say his attention to detail often works to his advantage in that he’s a good program builder. However it may mean he overthinks and inserts himself sometimes when he’d be better off laying back.
 

mildone

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Neither love nor hate. Just like in politics it seems that the most noise and energy is at the extremes. I think greg has plusses and minuses. In fact I’d say his attention to detail often works to his advantage in that he’s a good program builder. However it may mean he overthinks and inserts himself sometimes when he’d be better off laying back.
That's probably true of all coaches, to varying degrees.

Hopefully GS has learned to value and encourage counter-opinions among his coaching staff. Because that's usually the key to avoiding getting too locked in on stuff, avoid tunnel vision. He seems to me to have gotten better about that stuff than in his first term at RU. But realistically, none of us can ever really know for sure - couldn't back then, either.

People make a ton of unprovable assumptions about stuff based largely or entirely on rumors. So-called "common knowledge" often lacks much in the way of actual knowledge.
 
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Shelby65

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Both positive and negative.
Who cares?
It doesn't matter.
All that matters at this point is how 2020 and forward are going.
Why is there so much living in the past?

If he won the Big East 3 times - we still have one of the worst offenses in the country and don't appear to have a path forward towards fixing it.

If he wins the Big Ten next year - he still wouldn't have won the watered down Big East.

Do other fanbases bring up other prior when defending/criticizing their HC?
Did Nebraska fans defend Frost by bringing up UCF?
Because people are clinging to their only justification for hiring him. Nothing after 1.0 points to him deserving a HC job so that’s all they’ve got.
 

RUTGERS95

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Neither love nor hate. Just like in politics it seems that the most noise and energy is at the extremes. I think greg has plusses and minuses. In fact I’d say his attention to detail often works to his advantage in that he’s a good program builder. However it may mean he overthinks and inserts himself sometimes when he’d be better off laying back.
I think this is it

I also laugh when people say 'one of if not the worst in fbs' which is not true. Lots of crappy programs that don't benefit from BIG, TV mkt, recruiting grounds etc.. Greg is surely showing he can't use the portal and I'd say personnel effectively imho given the qb situation and inability to utilize the talent we have vs square peg round hole offensive scheme.
 

e5fdny

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I think fans loving or hating a sports coach at all, under any circumstance purely related to sports, is irrational. Family and close friends, sure. Everybody else? Seems weirdly misplaced, very one-way, emotional bonding.

I have zero hate or love for GS, Flood or Ash. I don't have the sort of relationship with any of them that would warrant such strong emotions.

People use the terms hate and love when maybe they don't really mean them. If what they really feel is like/dislike, but they're using stronger terms for emphasis, then okay. But actual love and hate? Don't get it.
Considering fan is short for fanatic it makes pretty good sense to me.

Doesn't mean it's rational like you said, but I understand it much more at this level (college vs. the pros) because of the close connection we have to the institution.

As Politi has said...you'll never be a Giant, but you always be a Scarlet Knight.
 
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mildone

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Because people are clinging to their only justification for hiring him. Nothing after 1.0 points to him deserving a HC job so that’s all they’ve got.
Nah, that's completely ridiculous. You're clinging to your incessantly negative view of him.

First, you don't know what people are thinking. That's always a dumb position to take.

Second, whatever people are thinking, they're not all thinking the same thing the way you've implied with your "clinging" comment. You've grossly oversimplified reality just so you can say something highly negative about fans with a different viewpoint than you. Pretty lame; if not uncommon, behavior for which there's never any justification.

And third, you've actually done nothing at all to show how 2.0 isn't deserving of being the HC here at all. You have no way of proving that anybody else could've come in and done better. Maybe someone could. Maybe not. It's 100% entirely unprovable conjecture either way. Yet you keep posting about it as if you are certain which is, yet again, a dumb position to take.
 
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brgRC90

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I am so curious about this that I hope somebody does respond...
It's utterly wrong, at least when it comes to me. He's a coach that ultimately produced consistent but very, very mediocre results. I was told year after year post 2006 to just give him more time--I distinctly remember being promised by one board member that we should wait a couple of years once Tom Savage was on board and if he didn't win the Big East or go to a good bowl game it was fair to criticize him. That didn't pan out, never mind, give him more time, Schiano will get us there. RU regularly had the easiest schedules in college football, usually 8 FBS opponents per year. He beat midmajors a lot and went .500 in conference. At some point if you're a coach you produce something great or you don't. 10+ years is enough time to see. 3rd rate bowls is not a particularly noteworthy achievement.

Failing anything great his supporters have decided to spin the situation that the Big East was really tough--hence it was asking too much that Schiano win it even once. Never mind UConn did it one year, by beating WVU, something Schiano also never did in 11 tries. Never mind Brian Kelly came in and ate everyone's lunch right away.

These same people screamed and shrieked so loudly that Schiano was brought back--for 8 years. Who gets 8 year contracts second time around? So far results are unimpressive--and what am I hearing? 1. It's always someone else's fault: AD, OC, QB, O-line. 2. He needs more time.

I've seen both movies before, many times. If you're happy with consistent mediocrity that's fine but admit it. And stop making excuses for unimpressive performance or exaggerating mediocre wins. Temple? For $32 million? Year 1 was an impressive turnaround, but since then the team has hit a low ceiling. I hope he does better in the future because we're stuck with him but the same people who insisted he was going to do great things before are doing it again. And if anyone doubts them, they resort to personal attacks and claim you aren't a real fan--because real Rutgers fans are content to wait and wait and wait while their team is crushed all season for years, and are boring AF while doing it. Call me skeptical.
 
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mildone

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Considering fan is short for fanatic it makes pretty good sense to me.

Doesn't mean it's rational like you said, but I understand it much more at this level (college vs. the pros) because of the close connection we have to the institution.

As Politi has said...you'll never be a Giant, but you always be a Scarlet Knight.
I hear you. But "fan" is used pretty broadly; not all fans are actually fanatics. And even fanatics can be fanatical about their support of a sports team without becoming emotionally attached or detached to/from coaches.

I admit, though, that I'm not much for putting anybody on a pedestal. To me, a coach is an employee. Fondess is okay, but adoration is just asking for trouble (look at PSU and JoePa and what happened w/Sandusky). And hatred is kind of just the other side of the adoration coin.

I get that others think differently about this stuff. Just saying I don't really understand it all that well.
 

mildone

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It's utterly wrong, at least when it comes to me. He's a coach that ultimately produced consistent but very, very mediocre results. I was told year after year post 2006 to just give him more time--I distinctly remember being promised by one board member that we should wait a couple of years once Tom Savage was on board and if he didn't win the Big East or go to a good bowl game it was fair to criticize him. That didn't pan out, never mind, give him more time, Schiano will get us there. RU regularly had the easiest schedules in college football, usually 8 FBS opponents per year. He beat midmajors a lot and went .500 in conference. At some point if you're a coach you produce something great or you don't. 10+ years is enough time to see. 3rd rate bowls is not a particularly noteworthy achievement.

Failing anything great his supporters have decided to spin the situation that the Big East was really tough--hence it was asking too much that Schiano win it even once. Never mind UConn did it one year, by beating WVU, something Schiano also never did in 11 tries. Never mind Brian Kelly came in and ate everyone's lunch right away.

These same people screamed and shrieked so loudly that Schiano was brought back--for 8 years. Who gets 8 year contracts second time around? So far results are unimpressive--and what am I hearing? 1. It's always someone else's fault: AD, OC, QB, O-line. 2. He needs more time.

I've seen both movies before, many times. If you're happy with consistent mediocrity that's fine but admit it. And stop making excuses for unimpressive performance or exaggerating mediocre wins. Temple? For $32 million? Year 1 was an impressive turnaround, but since then the team has hit a low ceiling. I hope he does better in the future because we're stuck with him but the same people who insisted he was going to do great things before are doing it again. And if anyone doubts them, they resort to personal attacks and claim you aren't a real fan--because real Rutgers fans are content to wait and wait and wait while their team is crushed all season for years, and are boring AF while doing it. Call me skeptical.
Nothing wrong with being skeptical. I'm almost always skeptical about almost everything.

I am not one to claim I know what will happen with the GS 2.0 experiment (and all hires are experiments). I think I just recognize the massive challenge that is coaching RUFB to success in the Big Ten. I don't think it's the sort of thing any coach anywhere is going to do with ease or with great speed here at RU at this time.

GS 2.0 is doing better than I expected so far. But the jury is still out. I didn't expect miracles and becoming offensive juggernauts or seeing straight-line improvement season over season with no setbacks would take a miracle.
 
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e5fdny

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I hear you. But "fan" is used pretty broadly; not all fans are actually fanatics. And even fanatics can be fanatical about their support of a sports team without becoming emotionally attached or detached to/from coaches.

I admit, though, that I'm not much for putting anybody on a pedestal. To me, a coach is an employee. Fondness is okay, but adoration is just asking for trouble (look at PSU and JoePa and what happened w/Sandusky). And hatred is kind of just the other side of the adoration coin.

I get that others think differently about this stuff. Just saying I don't really understand it all that well.
That's okay.

But that difference was explained, it's not really the same as the pros where there is the possibility of the player being here for a long time. For college, many times the face is the HC, not the team or the players.

So yeah, that's why in this instance there is more of everything directed at the HC. But also like you said doesn't make it rational...it is what it is.
 

zappaa

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Fret not, when it comes to irrational hatred towards the guy that single handedly revived the program this board will never disappoint.

Just yesterday we learned that his wins in the BE don't count at all because it's no longer a P5 conference. A new reason each day! I mean Louisville is in the ACC now but who cares?

There's always a new but wholly irrational ground for hate and contempt. You have to give the hate cult that much, they are creative.
Schiano recruited NFL level talent from 2003 forward.
We were good because we had some of the best position groups in the entire country.
It’s not rocket science, if the current landscape doesn’t allow him to recruit and keep players (NIL/Portal out) his coaching and philosophies alone will not translate to wins.
I campaigned hard for a GS return, I have no doubt if NIL was under some restraint and control, he’d make us highly competitive.
The current model won’t allow us to compete….imo
 
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brgRC90

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Nothing wrong with being skeptical. I'm almost always skeptical about almost everything.

I am not one to claim I know what will happen with the GS 2.0 experiment (and all hires are experiments). I think I just recognize the massive challenge that is coaching RUFB to success in the Big Ten. I don't think it's the sort of thing any coach anywhere is going to do with ease or with great speed here at RU at this time.

GS 2.0 is doing better than I expected so far. But the jury is still out. I didn't expect miracles and becoming offensive juggernauts or seeing straight-line improvement season over season with no setbacks would take a miracle.
Thats fine. But you don't have that weird Trumplike attachment to Schiano that many of his supporters on here do. It's a bizarre psychology. They will literally throw anyone else under the bus including teenagers and never accept any criticism of him. It's a situation where people weirdly see a person as en embodiment of an institution to the point where nobody else really matters. I once had someone on here tell me "Schiano IS Rutgers football." And this for a coach that never won much of anything. Does anyone doubt that if he had won on the scale of Joe Paterno some of our fans would show the same weird devotion Penn State fans showed to Paterno?
 

djrc89

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Schiano recruited NFL level talent from 2003 forward.
We were good because we had some of the best position groups in the entire country.
It’s not rocket science, if the current landscape doesn’t allow him to recruit and keep players (NIL/Portal out) his coaching and philosophies alone will not translate to wins
To piggyback, and as I admitted above, there are significant negatives to his ledger, but I think another big positive is the combo of identifying and coaching up talent. He had a ton of players on nfl rosters and many of them were not 4 star talent
 
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zappaa

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Jul 27, 2001
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To piggyback, and as I admitted above, there are significant negatives to his ledger, but I think another big positive is the combo of identifying and coaching up talent. He had a ton of players on nfl rosters and many of them were not 4 star talent
Now how do you keep them if they’re offered money to go elsewhere?
Sam Brown a perfect candidate to be poached by a money is no object school in need of a stud RB