Exagerrations are a part of every fan base.....but Myles Powell is a great college player and is not close to an NBA player....if he was close enough to be drafted, he would have left already, his grades indicate, he was not close to be drafted. There were 87 underclassmen who declared and were ranked that left school....more than half did not get drafted and most had more size and upside than Powell, despite his college production/scoring etc..
There are players who have upside that are not close to Powell as players who were drafted. Harper has upside that is draftable at some point, based on size, strength and height, which is more critical than how many points he scores at the college level. Powell is undersized and is a shooting guard instead of a point guard, which makes his path to the NBA as likely to be undrafted vs drafted.
Once "fans" understand the difference between production and upside, is where we become on the same page. Fans equate college production to draftability, which is NOT the same thing.
I would compare Powell to Purdue's Carsen Edwards at the college level....Edwards is a better player at all 3 levels on offense (dribbling, shooting, passing) and he didn't get drafted until the 2nd round....I could argue that Edwards was wildly inconsistent, took tons of questionable shots, but is quicker off the dribble and able to create his own shot, something Powell does not have the ability to do. Powell would have to be a significantly better point guard that handles the ball at a higher level, to approach Carsen Edwards.
Best case scenario is 2nd round for Powell. I dont know what Harper's upside is, but he has measurables that allow players with those traits to be a drafted player. SHU cannot get offended because Powell isn't likely to be a drafted player right now, it doesn't take away from his ability to dominate at a college level. There are freshman that haven't played one minute of college basketball this coming season that will have higher draft status than Powell, without proving anything in college. Big difference....
The NBA values shooters and Powell is a shooter. His shooting percentages on 3's was skewed because at Seton Hall he was the guy to stop because Seton Hall only had 1 real shooting threat. In The NBA he would get a lot more open looks.
There is absolutely no chance that a player gets more open looks in the NBA than you get in college.....the athletes, size, speed is dramatically quicker at the next level. You get open looks in college by being a better athlete or more athletic than sometimes younger, slower players....there are very few young and slow players in the NBA.
The notion that his shooting is skewed by Seton Hall is also false....it implies that Seton Hall is a one or two player program, which it isn't. Just because there may not be another NBA player on SHU with Powell right now, doesn't mean they don't have a high level roster of 8 to 10 players capable of playing at a high level coming into this season. They have experience, size and a dominant scorer in Powell, which is enough to have them in the Top 12 to 15 in most estimates right now. Experience matters in college basketball.
I am not a NBA scout, but scouts rarely miss on players like Powell. There are 30 teams and very few can carry a guard of his height, who cannot generate his own shot and would have difficulty guarding defending bigger guards that are as athletic as he is right now. Being able to score is not the only path to playing in the NBA....Everyone in the NBA summer league right now can shoot or is capable of scoring and most of the NBA summer league will not make it at the next level of the NBA....Players like Dakota Mathias of Purdue are on the NBA's Lakers right now and there isn't a more accurate catch and shoot player I've seen than Mathias in recent years....difference is, he's taller and has the height to potentially alter someone's shot, if he was able to play in the NBA.....he's also regarded as a better defender and rebounder in addition to being as good or a better shooter than Powell
Powell has two huge hurdles that aren't going to change....he's not a Point guard that can generate his own shot and he's at best 6'1", which means he's probably 6'0 or 5'11" once they officially measure him at the combine. It becomes difficult to find players Powell can guard on defense at the next level at that size.And he cannot contribute at the next level, unless he's scoring at a high clip, if he cannot defend on the other end of the floor.
He is a great college scorer and player, but that doesn't assure him being able to do all the other things necessary at the NBA level. Isiah Whitehead is a similar player, with more size, ability and can do more on both ends of the court....the only thing Powell does better than Whitehead is generate shots from 3....that's not enough to stick at the next level right now, no matter how many points he scores in college. Whitehead has the same gaps as not being a ptoint guard, he's a scoring guard with elite athleticism or 3 point range.
In the NBA....you still get open looks even with the best athletes in the world. Saying that players don't get open looks in the NBA is ridiculous. They still play defenses that are geared towards protecting the paint.
On Toronto he would get open shots just like like VanFleet who is 6'0 guard. Put him on Houston he gets open looks because so many other players demand attention. JR Smith and slow ass Kyle Korver have been getting open looks for years...with or without LeBron.
Whitehead ?? He did not stick with Brooklyn because he could not shoot....28% on threes will not make it in the NBA.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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2019 game will be 71-64 RU.
Powell is gonna be strapped by jacob young. He’ll still get som
if powells a lock for the nba whyd he come back for his senior year? And spare me the “he wants to win a natty!!”. We both know thats about as realistic as the world ending
He came back because he likes college? And wants to raise his stock? What’s wrong with that?
My point is that why would you bring Powell into the convo out of nowhere even when he’s proven himself against great college teams, has accolades, projected All-American, etc. when Harper hasn’t done a thing yet?
My argument never was for Powell to make the NBA or get drafted (he still might). But kyk brought him into the conversation out of thin air. So, I’m saying Powell, an elite college player, has a better chance as of right now to make the NBA than Harper, who I even said was a good freshman. Who knows what happens but...does a borderline starter on Rutgers really have a better shot right now to be an NBA player than a potential first team AA?
And my exaggeration comment was mostly about fans of teams like rutgers claiming so and so is an NBA player...even if he’s tall, athletic, talented...it’s incredibly hard.
1. In general, I've found "college basketball fans" to be among the worst at predicting NBA draft selections/NBA production.
If you've ever said "NBA is boring/sucks/sux" in any of the NBA threads here, your evaluations are probably meaningless.
2. College production has basically zero correlation to NBA draft projection and high-level NBA production. Being an first team AA or a borderline starter at Rutgers doesn't make a difference actually.
Guess how many Wooden/Naismith award winners have made an All-Star game since 2009?
2 - Blake Griffin (2009 winner and won't make another ASG again) and Anthony Davis (2012 winner).
It is a safe assumption that the other 8 will never come close to making an ASG (excluding Zion who hasn't played yet).
These were the consensus best players in college basketball and it was meaningless for NBA projections.
If you've ever said "NBA is boring/sucks/sux" in any of the NBA threads here, your evaluations are probably meaningless.
2. College production has basically zero correlation to NBA draft projection and high-level NBA production. Being an first team AA or a borderline starter at Rutgers doesn't make a difference actually.
Guess how many Wooden/Naismith award winners have made an All-Star game since 2009?
2 - Blake Griffin (2009 winner and won't make another ASG again) and Anthony Davis (2012 winner).
It is a safe assumption that the other 8 will never come close to making an ASG (excluding Zion who hasn't played yet).
These were the consensus best players in college basketball and it was meaningless for NBA projections.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Ill make it simple in case you dont now how to go back itt. Itt shu trolls showed up commenting on harpers 3 point fg % to which i pointed out he was better than powell in conference play from 3 last year despite playing in a better conference and being a true frosh. Its kinda simple lil bros
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Yeah, you are right players come back to college all the time because they like college LOL . Go look back at the 2019 NBA draft and let me know how many four-year guys got drafted.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Ill ask again how many 4 year players got drafted. People touting powell as this world class cant miss talent make me laugh. Hes basically jeremy hazell but has played on winning teams
Powell is an incredibly productive college player. Nobody at the high major level with his usage rate or higher (29.6%) had a better offensive rating (111.8). He's a top 10 player in the sport. His NBA prospects are what they are but he's really effing good.
I don't think he can really get much better, and I definitely don't think Seton Hall is a top-15 team, but Powell is a deserving first team preseason All-American.
I don't think he can really get much better, and I definitely don't think Seton Hall is a top-15 team, but Powell is a deserving first team preseason All-American.
There is no way he will raise his stock. He played great last year. What part of his game do you see improving that will raise his stock? He is pretty much a finished product.
Nobody is touting him as that. He's a pre season AA----that's a fact.
Throwing out there that Harper could be leaving early is more laughable.
On another note--------grow the F*** up.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Theres a better chance of harper leaving early and getting drafted than powell get drafted. Were talkin facts honcho
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Agreed haha. Even preseason top 25 talk is funny to me. Outside of powell whos gonna put the ball in the hoop? Ill give you Cale is a decent player but who else can put the ball in the bucket? Mamu is nothing special, the 5’s including the fsu transfer are defensive oriented, mcnight is a poor mans paul gause, rhoden didnt impress me. Its a team severely lacking scoring depth. They have 1 scorer and 1 complimentary piece is Cale. It’s typical jerry carino overhyping of SHU. Him hyping up the MSU game has been funny
Neither would raise his stock at all. He's not increasing his ball handling or on the ball defense to any significant degree to raise his stock. Unless you think he is going to become Kenny Anderson as far as level of handling the rock it won't make one bit of difference. Ways you can increase your stock are PG's who have everything else at an NBA level save shooting can increase their stock if they improve their shot. Big men, same thing. They have the size, quickness, etc. but lack offensive moves can move up if they add said moves. A 6 foot shooting guard who already has a good handle is not going to raise his stock by getting a little better at it and nobody is going from a good handle to a Kenny Anderson level handle over the summer. On the ball defense for a 6 ft. guard in the pros is meaningless.
Facts ?
Who's facts ? Yours ?
More in depth analysis from the guy who doesn't know if the ball has air or feathers in it.
Hey I hope Harper has a great year but calling him a pro prospect and trashing Myles Powell is laughable.
Then watch tape of Van Vliet from the Raptors and let me know what you come up with.
There's always a place in the NBA of today for a shooter .
A guy who can't is a liability.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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I agree but here's what'll happen. MSU is a 2nd half team. They'll start off slow as usual and SHU will be up at half and then MSU will win by 8+. Jerry Carino will be shouting, "THE SHU TEAM YOU SAW IN THE FIRST HALF HAS SWEET 16 POTENTIAL!!!". While conveniently forgetting that a 14-17 Rutgers team was beating MSU into the second half at their gym this past february.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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btw how many 4 year guys got drafted a few weeks back, still waiting on that one. You don't come back for your 4th unless you know you're NBA prospect are SLIMMMM
I couldn't care less or have any real evaluation on Harper/Powell.
But you are supremely overrating Van Vleet:
1. He was undrafted and spent alot of time in the D/G-League.
2. He has averaged under two 3s a game on less than 5 attempts every year he's been in the league (38%, 41%, 38%).
Not exactly scorching for a 6ft PG.
If you are using Van Vleet's offense as the projection/comparison - that doesnt really bode well for Powell.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vanvlfr01.html
Also, in college FVV was 41/42/36/38 % from 3.
Powell has been 33/38/36 % from 3.
Cameron Johnson, Matisse Thybulle, Dylan Windler, Cody Martin, Justin James, Eric Paschall, Admiral Schofield, Isaiah Roby, Terrance Mann, Quinndary Witherspoon, Jarrell Brantley, Justin Wright-Foreman, Marial Shayok... that's 13 seniors.
Conversely, only 9 juniors were drafted. How about that?
Van Vleet ran PG at Wichita State
He also is a plus defender, despite his height.
Two drastically different comps.
13 Seniors drafted in 2019 of 60. 69 of the last 300 drafted players (last 5 drafts) were college seniors, or about 23%. 42 were juniors, or about 14%.
About 2/3 of draftees are either international or came out before their junior year... of those that stay for their junior season, more have gotten drafted after staying four years than staying three.
Only 3 seniors in the 1st round (compared to 4 juniors in the 1st round).
Cameron Johnson at #11 to Phoenix was actually incredible watching.
Phoenix drafted a guy who is 7 months older than Devin Booker!
Shooting rules everything now. Bryn Forbes has an NBA role... Duncan Robinson has an NBA role. The three pointer being worth 1.5x a two pointer turns out to change the game in ways they didn't foresee when they instituted it. Awarding 2.3 points would be better in the sense of rewarding it properly but of course would never happen.
Over the last 5 drafts:
77 freshmen
69 seniors
55 sophomores
52 international
42 juniors
5 HS
Looks like the lowest appetite is for guys coming out after their junior years, and the highest appetite is for freshmen and seniors.
77 freshmen
69 seniors
55 sophomores
52 international
42 juniors
5 HS
Looks like the lowest appetite is for guys coming out after their junior years, and the highest appetite is for freshmen and seniors.
