Will Ron Harper Jr. Declare After This Season?

[Scangg]

Van Vleet ran PG at Wichita State

He also is a plus defender, despite his height.

Two drastically different comps.

This. Powell doesn't play point and he's not tall for a SG at all. At his height, he either needs to be a PG and/or shoot the 3 at a higher clip. There are sooooo many guards around 6ft who are good every single year and don't make it to the NBA. He doesn't have a skill that stands out as NBA quality.

Harper has a better shot with the NBA based on his height ball handling IQ and potential 3 point shot ability.

College production does not equal NBA ability

 

[brad1218]

Then watch tape of Van Vliet from the Raptors and let me know what you come up with.

There's always a place in the NBA of today for a shooter .

A guy who can't is a liability.

I am not arguing that the guy can’t shoot or even that there is no place for him in the NBA. I am saying a 6 foot PG is not improving his draft stock by showing he is a better on the ball defender during his senior year. He is also not improving his ball handling dramatically enough to improve his draft stock.

 

[Vegas pj]

While conveniently forgetting that a 14-17 Rutgers team was beating MSU into the second half at their gym this past february.

I'd forget a 14-17 season and no post season in over 2 decades too. :cry:

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I'd forget a 14-17 season and no post season in over 2 decades too. :cry:

Id forget your players trying to literally trying to kill each other, their mothers and driving the wrong way down the parkway too.

Despite all your recent “success” youve gotten past the 1st round once. Youre damnnnnn lucky to play in that weak conference

 

[NickRU714]

Shooting rules everything now. Bryn Forbes has an NBA role... Duncan Robinson has an NBA role. The three pointer being worth 1.5x a two pointer turns out to change the game in ways they didn't foresee when they instituted it. Awarding 2.3 points would be better in the sense of rewarding it properly but of course would never happen.

I have no ides how I got wrapped up in this.

Another 2 undrafted players who barely play.
Yes, every team needs 10-15 players.
Not really sure what the point everyone is trying to make by bringing up so many undrafted players who have spent a majority of their time in the G-League?

 

[NickRU714]

Over the last 5 drafts:
77 freshmen
69 seniors
55 sophomores
52 international
42 juniors
5 HS

Looks like the lowest appetite is for guys coming out after their junior years, and the highest appetite is for freshmen and seniors.

Definately need context for those numbers.

Freshman only stay in the draft if they have a 1st round promise.

Limited sophomores drafted because the best players already declared/drafted as freshman.

Juniors in the draft declare out of necessity because they are maxed out and trying to capitalize before getting the dreaded "senior" label.

Seniors are the highest pool because they all declare and have no other options. They make great filler as 2nd round/back end of roster becuase you know what they are by that point.

2019 NBA draft:

11 out of 14 freshman in 1st round (Bol Bol went in 2nd round but was potential 1st round. Injury made for a weird situation).

10 out of 13 seniors went in 2nd round.

 

[RutgHoops]

Four of the five first year players* on last years team had better numbers in conference play (pretty much) across the board than they did in OOC play. Having first year kids perform better against better competition as the season progresses is a pretty good way to measure if your HC can develop players, no?

The idea that Harper's (and Mathis', and Myles' and Caleb's) numbers in the B1G being better than his OOC numbers isn't a meaningful datapoint is a silly position to take.

*We actually had six first year players. Carter's numbers B1G v OOC were flat. I'd also take that as a positive.

 

[shurings]

Id forget your players trying to literally trying to kill each other, their mothers and driving the wrong way down the parkway too.

Despite all your recent “success” youve gotten past the 1st round once. Youre damnnnnn lucky to play in that weak conference

Aaaaaanndddd there it is. You just ooze with class, man. I make a few points and you go ranting about how much you know and how much I don’t. Then this comment. Clownshow.

It’s not carino hyping the team, it’s literally everyone covering college basketball ranking them inside the top 15 and some within the top 10. Oh yeah, but it’s just a coincidence. They’re just shills. Anything to put down that seton hall team that’s been awful the last four years.

Oh and by the way, if you wanna talk about “facts,” what about seton hall beating an elite eight team each of the past 4 years? Oh that doesn’t matter, they play in a weak conference. They’re just lucky.

2016: beat Villanova, eventual national champion
2017: beat South Carolina, eventual final four
2018: beat Texas tech, eventual elite eight
2019: beat Kentucky, eventual elite eight

All in front of sold out crowds at MSG.

Oh and seton halls record against big ten teams in that span? 6-2.

Don’t even bring up how Willard challenges his team while pikiell feeds his team cupcakes every year.

If you wanna debate who MIGHT end up as a better Nba player, fine. But keep questioning seton halls success (and making wild statements about the players behavior), which has already happened and is happening, and you’ll keep getting shut down.

 

[shurings]

Yeah, you are right players come back to college all the time because they like college LOL . Go look back at the 2019 NBA draft and let me know how many four-year guys got drafted.

Oh so he doesn’t like going off against elite players under the brightest lights???? Instead of spending a year in the G league? Yeah you’re right. You’re so smart kyk! We really are your lil bros!!!

 

[shurings]

There is no way he will raise his stock. He played great last year. What part of his game do you see improving that will raise his stock? He is pretty much a finished product.

You’d be surprised. Ball-handling, percentages, assists. Why wouldn’t he improve? Plus, I think everyone knows that, justified or not, a march madness run puts eyes on your team. Powell works some magic and carries SHU to the elite eight, you don’t think scouts will be intrigued?

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

There is no way he will raise his stock. He played great last year. What part of his game do you see improving that will raise his stock? He is pretty much a finished product.

This college player (Powell) is pretty much a finished product after 3 years? That's all it took, 3 years....no more improvement is possible. His game has no flaws.

** No way he can get to 40-43% on threes.

** Perimeter Defense is perfect. He locks down anyone he wants.

** He handles equally well going left or right.

** Passing is perfect.

I'm still waiting for you to tell us what the NBA scouts and evaluators told him he needs to work on ??? Or did they tell him he has already reached his ceiling?

 

[RUChoppin]

Definately need context for those numbers.

Freshman only stay in the draft if they have a 1st round promise.

Limited sophomores drafted because the best players already declared/drafted as freshman.

Juniors in the draft declare out of necessity because they are maxed out and trying to capitalize before getting the dreaded "senior" label.

Seniors are the highest pool because they all declare and have no other options. They make great filler as 2nd round/back end of roster becuase you know what they are by that point.

2019 NBA draft:

11 out of 14 freshman in 1st round (Bol Bol went in 2nd round but was potential 1st round. Injury made for a weird situation).

10 out of 13 seniors went in 2nd round.

Don't disagree with any of that... just the premise that seniors somehow don't get drafted. Of course they do.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Aaaaaanndddd there it is. You just ooze with class, man. I make a few points and you go ranting about how much you know and how much I don’t. Then this comment. Clownshow.

It’s not carino hyping the team, it’s literally everyone covering college basketball ranking them inside the top 15 and some within the top 10. Oh yeah, but it’s just a coincidence. They’re just shills. Anything to put down that seton hall team that’s been awful the last four years.

Oh and by the way, if you wanna talk about “facts,” what about seton hall beating an elite eight team each of the past 4 years? Oh that doesn’t matter, they play in a weak conference. They’re just lucky.

2016: beat Villanova, eventual national champion
2017: beat South Carolina, eventual final four
2018: beat Texas tech, eventual elite eight
2019: beat Kentucky, eventual elite eight

All in front of sold out crowds at MSG.

Oh and seton halls record against big ten teams in that span? 6-2.

Don’t even bring up how Willard challenges his team while pikiell feeds his team cupcakes every year.

If you wanna debate who MIGHT end up as a better Nba player, fine. But keep questioning seton halls success (and making wild statements about the players behavior), which has already happened and is happening, and you’ll keep getting shut down.

At SHU yoi have to schedule up ooc because their conference is so weak. Also, we play 20 conference games against tougher opponents and you play 18 in the big east. Last year we played mich st and ohio state twice. So you can add mich st and ohio state to our ooc schedule if youd like

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Oh so he doesn’t like going off against elite players under the brightest lights???? Instead of spending a year in the G league? Yeah you’re right. You’re so smart kyk! We really are your lil bros!!!

You honestly think if powell had a chance at the nba hed be coming back.... come onnnnnn

 

[KnightTerrors]

this thread is the epitome of summers on the board and I LOVE IT!

In a few months we'll all be back on the same team. See you then!

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

You’d be surprised. Ball-handling, percentages, assists. Why wouldn’t he improve? Plus, I think everyone knows that, justified or not, a march madness run puts eyes on your team. Powell works some magic and carries SHU to the elite eight, you don’t think scouts will be intrigued?

Powell carrying a team to an elite 8 hahahahahahahaha. Yo. Myles Powell is good college player, dont get me wrong but he in no way shape or form is nearly talented enough to carry a team in a tourney. On a good team hes a #2 scoring option. His game isnt nearly well-rounded enough to be able to carry the load for a stretch against good teams

 

[NickRU714]

Don't disagree with any of that... just the premise that seniors somehow don't get drafted. Of course they do.

Of course seniors get drafted - they are the largest draft eligible pool.
They have no option of returning to college when given a 2nd Round grade (such as what Powell did).


Seniors get drafted in the 2nd Round:
2019 - 10 out of 13
2018 - 9 out of 11
2017 - 11 out of 13
2016 - 10 out of 14
2015 - 13 out of 17

 

[TDIrish27]

Id forget your players trying to literally trying to kill each other, their mothers and driving the wrong way down the parkway too.

Despite all your recent “success” youve gotten past the 1st round once. Youre damnnnnn lucky to play in that weak conference

Yeah I noticed that " weak " conference head to head in the National Championship game 2 years ago vs the Big Ten Champion.

I turned it off when it got 30.

Beyond that I guess the SHU road win at Maryland didn't happen last year.

Ditto neutral court win vs Kentucky.

 

[NickRU714]

This college player (Powell) is pretty much a finished product after 3 years? That's all it took, 3 years....no more improvement is possible. His game has no flaws.

** No way he can get to 40-43% on threes.

** Perimeter Defense is perfect. He locks down anyone he wants.

** He handles equally well going left or right.

** Passing is perfect.

I'm still waiting for you to tell us what the NBA scouts and evaluators told him he needs to work on ??? Or did they tell him he has already reached his ceiling?

I can tell what he wasn’t told:
You’ll be a 1st round pick and get a guaranteed contract.

He was great at the G-League camp but still wasn’t invited to the actual NBA Combine.
He was on basically zero draft lists as even a 2nd round pick.

I doubt it was: “improve your shooting and move into 1st round”.

More likely it was “You’ll be undrafted currently. If you return to college maybe you get into 2nd round or most likely still be undrafted.”

So it seems it was either be a big fish in college for another year or join the G-League a year early.

 

[RUChoppin]

Of course seniors get drafted - they are the largest draft eligible pool.
They have no option of returning to college when given a 2nd Round grade (such as what Powell did).


Seniors get drafted in the 2nd Round:
2019 - 10 out of 13
2018 - 9 out of 11
2017 - 11 out of 13
2016 - 10 out of 14
2015 - 13 out of 17

Sure, but the argument kyk made wasn't "show me how many seniors are lottery picks" or "show me how many went in the first round".... it was "show me how many seniors get drafted". Quite a few.

The first round is largely freshmen and sophomores.... if you already came back for your junior year, there's a good chance you're not going in the 1st round anyway. Staying a fourth year isn't the huge knock it's being made out to be.

Over the past 5 drafts:
1st round:
64 Freshmen (43%)
29 Soph (19%)
19 International
19 Junior
16 Senior
3 HS

2nd round:
33 Senior
33 International
26 Soph
23 Junior
13 Freshmen
2 HS

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Sure, but the argument kyk made wasn't "show me how many seniors are lottery picks" or "show me how many went in the first round".... it was "show me how many seniors get drafted". Quite a a few.

The first round is largely freshmen and sophomores.... if you already came back for your junior year, there's a good chance you're not going in the 1st round anyway. Staying a fourth year isn't the huge knock it's being made out to be.

Over the past 5 drafts:
1st round:
64 Freshmen (43%)
29 Soph (19%)
19 International
19 Junior
16 Senior
3 HS

2nd round:
33 Senior
33 International
26 Soph
23 Junior
13 Freshmen
2 HS

it kinda proves my point. Guys drafted in the 2nd round don't even make rosters in a lot of cases. You watch the draft and you realize basically no seniors go in the first round. Over the past 5 drafts as you said only 16 seniors in the 1st round. Overwhelming majority in 2nd round trying to scrap to make a roster but most likely headed to the G league making peanuts.

 

[RUChoppin]

it kinda proves my point. Guys drafted in the 2nd round don't even make rosters in a lot of cases. You watch the draft and you realize basically no seniors go in the first round. Over the past 5 drafts as you said only 16 seniors in the 1st round. Overwhelming majority in 2nd round trying to scrap to make a roster but most likely headed to the G league making peanuts.

Shifting goalposts - now they do get drafted, but don't make rosters. Next it'll be make rosters, but don't play much. Then they play, but don't start. Etc, etc.

There's really little difference in declaring after Junior year vs. declaring after Senior year, with regard to making the 1st round - if you aren't a one- or two-and-done, you're probably looking at the second round unless you have a breakout season. So, for Powell, that one- or two-and-done ship has already sailed... it's doubtful staying an extra year will really hurt him, especially if he was given feedback that he wasn't going to be a 1st rounder anyway.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Shifting goalposts - now they do get drafted, but don't make rosters. Next it'll be make rosters, but don't play much. Then they play, but don't start. Etc, etc.

There's really little difference in declaring after Junior year vs. declaring after Senior year, with regard to making the 1st round - if you aren't a one- or two-and-done, you're probably looking at the second round unless you have a breakout season. So, for Powell, that one- or two-and-done ship has already sailed... it's doubtful staying an extra year will really hurt him, especially if he was given feedback that he wasn't going to be a 1st rounder anyway.

Just an fyi not sure if it was your list or someone elses above but I stopped reading when they said 13 seniors drafted and immediately saw Isaiah Roby’s name listed who is a junior. Regardless the point is, senior, especially little guys arent highly regarded. Usually it’s the big men who get drafted after their senior years due to needed time to gain stength to bang with 30 year old men down low

Cameron Johnson, Matisse Thybulle, Dylan Windler, Cody Martin, Justin James, Eric Paschall, Admiral Schofield, Isaiah Roby, Terrance Mann, Quinndary Witherspoon, Jarrell Brantley, Justin Wright-Foreman, Marial Shayok... that's 13 seniors.

Conversely, only 9 juniors were drafted. How about that?

Heres the list. Looking at this of the seniors drafted last year only 1 of them was under 6’5 and thats wright-foreman. Again, odds of myles powell seeing the nba are very veryyyy slim

 

[kcg88]

Just an fyi not sure if it was your list or someone elses above but I stopped reading when they said 13 seniors drafted and immediately saw Isaiah Roby’s name listed who is a junior. Regardless the point is, senior, especially little guys arent highly regarded. Usually it’s the big men who get drafted after their senior years due to needed time to gain stength to bang with 30 year old men down low

Heres the list. Looking at this of the seniors drafted last year only 1 of them was under 6’5 and thats wright-foreman. Again, odds of myles powell seeing the nba are very veryyyy slim

You're correct, Wikipedia has the wrong year for Roby.

 

[RUChoppin]

Just an fyi not sure if it was your list or someone elses above but I stopped reading when they said 13 seniors drafted and immediately saw Isaiah Roby’s name listed who is a junior. Regardless the point is, senior, especially little guys arent highly regarded. Usually it’s the big men who get drafted after their senior years due to needed time to gain stength to bang with 30 year old men down low

Yeah, Roby is listed as a Sr on Wikipedia, for some reason.

Heres the list. Looking at this of the seniors drafted last year only 1 of them was under 6’5 and thats wright-foreman. Again, odds of myles powell seeing the nba are very veryyyy slim

Also Quinndary Witherspoon at 6-4 in 2019, which makes 2 seniors of only 11 draft selections out of 60 last year that were under 6-5. With relation to Powell, just 5 were under 6-3: Kyle Guy (6-2), Darius Garland (6-2), Justin Wright-Foreman (6-2), Carsen Edwards (6-0), Tremont Waters (5-11). 1 senior, 2 juniors, 1 soph, and 1 freshman.

So making the NBA at all at 6-2 is a steep hill to climb regardless of class year. Just 49 of 530 players (9%) listed on nba.com are under 6-3... of those, 21 went in the 1st round, 12 in the second round, and 16 went undrafted.

 

[playorbplayd]

Powell carrying a team to an elite 8 hahahahahahahaha. Yo. Myles Powell is good college player, dont get me wrong but he in no way shape or form is nearly talented enough to carry a team in a tourney. On a good team hes a #2 scoring option. His game isnt nearly well-rounded enough to be able to carry the load for a stretch against good teams

Eh say SHU gets a 3-4 seed you're facing a mid, another mid or iffy high and then a legit P6 opponent to get to the Elite 8...not that crazy of an idea that a player as talented as Powell can carry SHU through that.

Truth is that stretches in P6 play, especially conference tournaments in elite leagues are much more difficult than the NCAA tourney for higher seeds.

 

[shurings]

Powell carrying a team to an elite 8 hahahahahahahaha. Yo. Myles Powell is good college player, dont get me wrong but he in no way shape or form is nearly talented enough to carry a team in a tourney. On a good team hes a #2 scoring option. His game isnt nearly well-rounded enough to be able to carry the load for a stretch against good teams

Watch more basketball. Good lord.

So wait...he dominated against zero good teams last year. Kentucky just sucks now after being a top 5 team most of the year.

Your arguments are so bizarre. His game isn’t well-rounded???? He’s a good shooter and an elite finisher in the paint. He creates turnovers, dishes, etc.

 

[shurings]

Eh say SHU gets a 3-4 seed you're facing a mid, another mid or iffy high and then a legit P6 opponent to get to the Elite 8...not that crazy of an idea that a player as talented as Powell can carry SHU through that.

Truth is that stretches in P6 play, especially conference tournaments in elite leagues are much more difficult than the NCAA tourney for higher seeds.

Even if they get a 5-6 seed like I’m thinking, it’s college basketball. Teams that shouldn’t make the elite eight make it every year. It just takes good matchups and one star to get hot, like Powell.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Another great thread that goes around in circles, but can be summed up in a few bullet points:

-- Nobody should be downplaying or bashing SHU's overall success over the past several years under Willard. RU would KILL for the achievements they have obtained in that span, whether it's in a weaker conference or not.

-- Myles Powell is an excellent college player who was not going to be drafted this year, so he rightly came back to school.

-- kyk has a point that it will be an uphill battle for Powell to get drafted in the 2nd round, and then to make an NBA team -- not impossible, but an uphill battle. The point is well taken that, unless you're an elite guard prospect that gets drafted after freshman or soph years, you're likely a 2nd round pick thereafter or an undrafted free agent destined for the G League or overseas.

 

[RUsojo]

13 Seniors drafted in 2019 of 60. 69 of the last 300 drafted players (last 5 drafts) were college seniors, or about 23%. 42 were juniors, or about 14%.

About 2/3 of draftees are either international or came out before their junior year... of those that stay for their junior season, more have gotten drafted after staying four years than staying three.

Over the last 5 drafts:
77 freshmen
69 seniors
55 sophomores
52 international
42 juniors
5 HS

Looks like the lowest appetite is for guys coming out after their junior years, and the highest appetite is for freshmen and seniors.

Sure, but the argument kyk made wasn't "show me how many seniors are lottery picks" or "show me how many went in the first round".... it was "show me how many seniors get drafted". Quite a few.

The first round is largely freshmen and sophomores.... if you already came back for your junior year, there's a good chance you're not going in the 1st round anyway. Staying a fourth year isn't the huge knock it's being made out to be.

Over the past 5 drafts:
1st round:
64 Freshmen (43%)
29 Soph (19%)
19 International
19 Junior
16 Senior
3 HS

2nd round:
33 Senior
33 International
26 Soph
23 Junior
13 Freshmen
2 HS

Now that’s good info to show your juniors thinking of signing with agent and keeping him instead of coming back for a Senior year. That and traveling with him in the summer are two good tactics.

 

[shields]

And td I can point out that Nova was blown out by Purdue and Michigan last year.

 

[TDIrish27]

Was not a good Nova team last year-----you lose 4 1st Rd picks and that will happen. Especially when you aren't a place that gets the 1 and done type kid.

Yet they still won the league-----as good a coaching job by Wright as he's done there IMO. Got a lot out of a little.

The Big Ten was excellent last year----best league in the country. That won't be the case this year. The bottom of the league will be awful and IMO the middle is 5-6 similar teams.

Just think it's silly to trash another conference when you played 2 games against them and SHU beats you solid and St Johns runs you out of your building.

 

[Scangg]

Lol it's P5 not P6. It's like the pathetic AAC in football pushing for that to become a thing... It's not

 

[shurings]

Lol it's P5 not P6. It's like the pathetic AAC in football pushing for that to become a thing... It's not

I disagree. Hasn’t kenpom had the big east in the top 3-4 conferences every year except last? Could be wrong

 

[Vegas pj]

Conclusion (at least kyk's) from this thread: Powell is no Harper, Jr. and SH's schedule doesn't hold a candle to RUs because its in the BIG. Got it. Now maybe this thread will finally RIP.

 

[MADHAT1]

bump
not going to have this thread RIP
with a Hall fan's post the one that killed it :D

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

 

[playorbplayd]

Lol it's P5 not P6. It's like the pathetic AAC in football pushing for that to become a thing... It's not

Like it or not it's P6 in basketball. Villanova ensured that with the monster run they went on. Rest of the league is solid during the season.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Like it or not it's P6 in basketball. Villanova ensured that with the monster run they went on. Rest of the league is solid during the season.

the big east is nova then everyone else. The big east outside of nova has been absolutely dreadful in the tourney once they begin to face the p5 squads in games that mean something

 

[playorbplayd]

the big east is nova then everyone else. The big east outside of nova has been absolutely dreadful in the tourney once they begin to face the p5 squads in games that mean something

They do some damage in OOC also since most of the BE rosters usually have upperclassmen. Once the younger guys from other power conferences get settled in they take care of the BE come tourney time.