You may disagree, but this is really Year 2
- Thread starter SBP
- Start date
And with HC Ash recruits and roster.
If HC Schiano isn't taking the season, I guess it goes on HC Ash's record?
Another 3-6 season in the Big Ten (and removing the 0-9 from 2016) - he's looking better and better.
yes, this is true but one difference. This time the value of money has transferred from the school into the recruits checking account.
It is the same because in the end the roster spots and starting time is still limited. Money dynamics are the same as they always have been too.
People make it sound like all the top programs are hoarding all the top recruits and transfers as if there's room and playing time for everyone. They have always gotten top players in the past and they will continue to do so but it doesn't mean that all lower status teams will lose every contributing and good player they have.
I have yet to see a team pillaged just because of NIL, it's usually a coaching change or some controversy that would bring roster upheaval. Players here and there off a team sure but it's not like your whole roster is getting pillaged of its best players.
Lets fully unpack this "Year 1 doesn't actually count because it's the prior coaches mess":
2012 9-4 (5-2 Big East)
Seems like most agree that HC Flood shouldn't get credit for this season. It was "Schiano's roster".
So HC Schiano gets this added. Another winning season in the Big East for HC Schiano. Very nice addition to his ledger.
2016 2-10 (0-9 Big Ten)
HC Ash can't be blamed for this. It's HC Flood's roster and putting together the pieces from HC Flood's scandal riddled team. This clearly goes back to HC Flood's ledger.
HC Ash is really winning with this. No more 78-0 lost to Michigan. No more mocking OC Mehringer (since he was also saddled with Flood's roster).
2020 3-6 Big Ten
According to OP, this season doesn't count for HC Schiano.
So then it must go back to HC Ash's ledger. Someone has to take ownership and credit for it.
HC Ash gets his second 3-6 Big Ten season.
2012 9-4 (5-2 Big East)
Seems like most agree that HC Flood shouldn't get credit for this season. It was "Schiano's roster".
So HC Schiano gets this added. Another winning season in the Big East for HC Schiano. Very nice addition to his ledger.
2016 2-10 (0-9 Big Ten)
HC Ash can't be blamed for this. It's HC Flood's roster and putting together the pieces from HC Flood's scandal riddled team. This clearly goes back to HC Flood's ledger.
HC Ash is really winning with this. No more 78-0 lost to Michigan. No more mocking OC Mehringer (since he was also saddled with Flood's roster).
2020 3-6 Big Ten
According to OP, this season doesn't count for HC Schiano.
So then it must go back to HC Ash's ledger. Someone has to take ownership and credit for it.
HC Ash gets his second 3-6 Big Ten season.
Why unpack when you can oversimplify. Flood wasn't a bad x's and o's coach, he just couldn't recruit the Jimmys and Joes. Of course his recruiting record was stellar compared to his dealing with the RU bureaucracy.
Completely wrong and 100% different landscape when it comes to recruiting, getting and keeping your players.
Exactly like GS 1.0.
Not happening today
The question is can you get players that can contribute and make a difference and the answer is yes. And if you think you’d lose all the ones you’d get you’re mistaken as well.
Has WF lost Sam Hartman? Coastal Carolina Grayson McCall? Max Duggan at TCU got passed over for Chandler Morris and stayed there and is flourishing. WSU got a contributing QB from Incarnate Word. Devin Leary leave NC State? Cam Rising Utah? You get players and some will leave and some will stay but you can get them.
To be clear, I'm not saying GS isn't the person for the job right now. If there's someone who can figure this out and do it with competence, it's him.
Problem is, I just don't see us ever being great at football. The current CFB landscape just isn't set up for a school like Rutgers to be successful. I think 6-6, 7-5 is our ceiling in very good years. Can GS get us there? Sure. It will be a slow climb and we need stability and consistency, not changing the HC every 4 years. So if still interested in RU football, buckle up and get ready for another season or two of this before we turn the corner.
Problem is, I just don't see us ever being great at football. The current CFB landscape just isn't set up for a school like Rutgers to be successful. I think 6-6, 7-5 is our ceiling in very good years. Can GS get us there? Sure. It will be a slow climb and we need stability and consistency, not changing the HC every 4 years. So if still interested in RU football, buckle up and get ready for another season or two of this before we turn the corner.
@mdk said - Why unpack when you can oversimplify. Flood wasn't a bad x's and o's coach, he just couldn't recruit the Jimmys and Joes. Of course his recruiting record was stellar compared to his dealing with the RU bureaucracy.
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Let’s be real. Nobody is saying Ash does or doesn’t get credit for 2020. The OP is saying he got here in December and signing day was 2 weeks later. On field it’s his team but I think Nick actually does a good job showing the demise of RU football after 2011 and its current slow and painful rise back up. Not sure if he meant it that way but the timeline shows it.
Flood was solid OL and co Offensive coordinator. He did a nice job with Schiano’s talent but he had no discipline and it showed with the arrests.
Ash was a very good defensive coordinator who was put in a bad spot and not given enough time to fix them. He also had arrests and apparently was not recruiting very well. He did hire Nunz and they did bring in some great players and some great transfers but he never got the depth needed to compete in this scale. Hell maybe he would have done well with the portal and NIL who knows but he had no Offense except the Kill year with Gus driving the bus.
Schiano hit the ground running energizing a dead program, flipping some great recruits last minute and bringing in some beef to help the DL. We went 3-6 in conference with 2 tough losses including the misted OT FG against Michigan. His first 2 classes were solid but fixing the OL is taking too long. Good players graduated and a few starters got hurt before this season started. That’s football. He’s got to get to 2.5 deep at every position. We need a few game changers too. Our lack of depth shows up on special teams. We design great punt blocks and Korsak is perfect but our blocking and ability to shed blocks and make tackles is lacking and that’s because of depth and our injury status. OL has been better but we play the best. Gavin has huge upside and when we run well he plays well (see MSU and Indiana). We seem miles away from the Top 10 programs but we’re not as far away as many think to the rest of the conference.
I want to win now. I don’t think firing the guy who brought us back from the dead twice is the answer. Do we really want to pay $20M for coaches and players? Our fans complain about $50 tickets. We get outnumbered at home games. Just because a couple dozen fans bitch and moan doesn’t mean pulling the plug is a good idea.
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Let’s be real. Nobody is saying Ash does or doesn’t get credit for 2020. The OP is saying he got here in December and signing day was 2 weeks later. On field it’s his team but I think Nick actually does a good job showing the demise of RU football after 2011 and its current slow and painful rise back up. Not sure if he meant it that way but the timeline shows it.
Flood was solid OL and co Offensive coordinator. He did a nice job with Schiano’s talent but he had no discipline and it showed with the arrests.
Ash was a very good defensive coordinator who was put in a bad spot and not given enough time to fix them. He also had arrests and apparently was not recruiting very well. He did hire Nunz and they did bring in some great players and some great transfers but he never got the depth needed to compete in this scale. Hell maybe he would have done well with the portal and NIL who knows but he had no Offense except the Kill year with Gus driving the bus.
Schiano hit the ground running energizing a dead program, flipping some great recruits last minute and bringing in some beef to help the DL. We went 3-6 in conference with 2 tough losses including the misted OT FG against Michigan. His first 2 classes were solid but fixing the OL is taking too long. Good players graduated and a few starters got hurt before this season started. That’s football. He’s got to get to 2.5 deep at every position. We need a few game changers too. Our lack of depth shows up on special teams. We design great punt blocks and Korsak is perfect but our blocking and ability to shed blocks and make tackles is lacking and that’s because of depth and our injury status. OL has been better but we play the best. Gavin has huge upside and when we run well he plays well (see MSU and Indiana). We seem miles away from the Top 10 programs but we’re not as far away as many think to the rest of the conference.
I want to win now. I don’t think firing the guy who brought us back from the dead twice is the answer. Do we really want to pay $20M for coaches and players? Our fans complain about $50 tickets. We get outnumbered at home games. Just because a couple dozen fans bitch and moan doesn’t mean pulling the plug is a good idea.
The irony is that Year 1 was Schiano's best year so far: they beat Michigan State at home, took Michigan to 2 OTs, beat Maryland in OT, narrowly lost to Illinois and Nebraska. Even Penn State was relatively close at 23 to 7 and they gave Ohio State a hard time by scoring a lot in the 2nd half, losing 49 to 27.
Contrast that with this year: PSU 55 to 10, OSU 49 to 10, Michigan 52 to 17, everyone else a loss except Indiana.
The key observation here is offense. How did we have a decent offense se in Year 1 and such a bad offense in Year 3?
