OT: 2021 NHL Regular Season Thread

[robcac26]

Flawed may be on the harsh side for a description. Would definitely agree it is interesting, but with limitations, and not “final word” type stat.

It appears to be a straight mathematical calculation based on the number of teams participating each season. Based on this, it would be over 5x tougher to win a Stanley Cup now than in the 6 team days. I’ll never be convinced that is true.

As a comparison, the BIG didn’t get tougher to win just because its most recent expansion increased teams. Being declared the MNC in cfb didn’t get tougher when all the Sun Belt type teams moved up divisions.

It certainly didn’t get twice as tough to win the Stanley Cup with the first doubling of teams expansion in the late 60s.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think it is that much harder to win a Cup now than it was in the Original Six era. Just look at how much of a gauntlet the playoffs are these days. Back then, the playoffs were just a handful of games. Of course this comparison is completely subjective though and impossible to really quantify. With that said though, there are of course some variables that can't have numbers applied to them. The inspiration for this I believe was a little back and forth I read between a Devils fan and a Rangers fan over which team was more successful and the Rangers fan pointed at their 4 Cups and saying it's more than the Devils 3.

I don't think the Big Ten comparison is really apples to apples here though because the NHL is designed to create parity with an entry draft, salary cap, etc. College sports tend to be on the opposite end of the spectrum where it's very difficult for the have-nots to compete because there's no entry draft, so the good players can just go to the teams that are always good. If the Big Ten added other teams that have a realistic chance of vying for the championship (Clemson, Alabama, etc.) then it most certainly would be tougher to win. Perhaps my point here disagrees with my point in the previous paragraph though because the NHL didn't have an entry draft until 1963.

True on read back. Apologies, @robcac26 - didn’t mean to insult you. Thanks for putting this together, it was probably a bit of work. I for one really do appreciate it as fodder for thinking, conversation, and debate. This is supposed to be fun, right?

No problem, I didn't take it as an insult at all. It wasn't all that much work, just had to look up what year each franchise started and how many Cups each team had, then set up a page in Excel to calculate the statistic for each team. I did that all while sitting in a car dealership's waiting room while getting that Tanaka airbag recall taken care of a few years ago, so it didn't really eat up any free time. Now it's just a matter of taking a few seconds at the end of each year's final to update the numbers.

 

[mdh2003]

I don't think it's unreasonable to think it is that much harder to win a Cup now than it was in the Original Six era. Just look at how much of a gauntlet the playoffs are these days. Back then, the playoffs were just a handful of games. Of course this comparison is completely subjective though and impossible to really quantify. With that said though, there are of course some variables that can't have numbers applied to them. The inspiration for this I believe was a little back and forth I read between a Devils fan and a Rangers fan over which team was more successful and the Rangers fan pointed at their 4 Cups and saying it's more than the Devils 3.

I don't think the Big Ten comparison is really apples to apples here though because the NHL is designed to create parity with an entry draft, salary cap, etc. College sports tend to be on the opposite end of the spectrum where it's very difficult for the have-nots to compete because there's no entry draft, so the good players can just go to the teams that are always good. If the Big Ten added other teams that have a realistic chance of vying for the championship (Clemson, Alabama, etc.) then it most certainly would be tougher to win. Perhaps my point here disagrees with my point in the previous paragraph though because the NHL didn't have an entry draft until 1963.


No problem, I didn't take it as an insult at all. It wasn't all that much work, just had to look up what year each franchise started and how many Cups each team had, then set up a page in Excel to calculate the statistic for each team. I did that all while sitting in a car dealership's waiting room while getting that Tanaka airbag recall taken care of a few years ago, so it didn't really eat up any free time. Now it's just a matter of taking a few seconds at the end of each year's final to update the numbers.

Ok, cool.

A few things from the points above. I think the “drafts“ between 63-67 (or maybe 69?) were more like the later supplemental drafts, I.e., not super useful. This explains it pretty well: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/index.html

Plus, pretty sure if you run the numbers when things were a bit more even in the league, your hated NYR will probably take a bigger hit, so...win-win, lol.

On the endless NYR-NJD debates - I think you probably won that one, but tbh, it really depends on what the criteria for “successful” is. Total cups: NYR, Cups/year: NJD (by a wide margin), Total winning %: NYR, Total first places: NJD, etc., etc.

Putting PHI in the mix, back to back cups in just their 7th year of existence is pretty darn special. Putting NYI in the mix, 4 cups in a row is probably more impressive than them all.

And, fans being fans, that criteria changes depending on which makes your team “look” better. But it’s what makes this stuff fun, right? If a few Rags and/or Debbies get sprinkled in, so be it. Although, when it comes to lowbrow, hard to top NYR fans. “Beat You Wife Potvin” and “Uncle-Daddy” were especially brutal. And around and around we go...

Speaking of which, our own @kyk1827 having a twitter moment with Avery? What are you guys buds?

 

[krup]

Ok, cool.

A few things from the points above. I think the “drafts“ between 63-67 (or maybe 69?) were more like the later supplemental drafts, I.e., not super useful. This explains it pretty well: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/index.html

Plus, pretty sure if you run the numbers when things were a bit more even in the league, your hated NYR will probably take a bigger hit, so...win-win, lol.

On the endless NYR-NJD debates - I think you probably won that one, but tbh, it really depends on what the criteria for “successful” is. Total cups: NYR, Cups/year: NJD (by a wide margin), Total winning %: NYR, Total first places: NJD, etc., etc.

Putting PHI in the mix, back to back cups in just their 7th year of existence is pretty darn special. Putting NYI in the mix, 4 cups in a row is probably more impressive than them all.

And, fans being fans, that criteria changes depending on which makes your team “look” better. But it’s what makes this stuff fun, right? If a few Rags and/or Debbies get sprinkled in, so be it. Although, when it comes to lowbrow, hard to top NYR fans. “Beat You Wife Potvin” and “Uncle-Daddy” were especially brutal. And around and around we go...

Speaking of which, our own @kyk1827 having a twitter moment with Avery? What are you guys buds?

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I think the Original Six era can’t be lumped in with later years because it was more like early baseball where certain teams had an advantage and could lock up the best players at the junior level and retain their rights (which gave the teams in natural hockey areas an advantage over NY and Chicago).

As a Ranger fan I think it is ridiculous that anyone can try and argue the Rangers have done better than the Devils or Islanders overall. My big argument is only that had the Ranger won in 79 or 14, they would actually be pretty average in their level of success, it’s just that the Devils’ and Islanders’ runs make them look worse than they have been.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Ok, cool.

A few things from the points above. I think the “drafts“ between 63-67 (or maybe 69?) were more like the later supplemental drafts, I.e., not super useful. This explains it pretty well: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/index.html

Plus, pretty sure if you run the numbers when things were a bit more even in the league, your hated NYR will probably take a bigger hit, so...win-win, lol.

On the endless NYR-NJD debates - I think you probably won that one, but tbh, it really depends on what the criteria for “successful” is. Total cups: NYR, Cups/year: NJD (by a wide margin), Total winning %: NYR, Total first places: NJD, etc., etc.

Putting PHI in the mix, back to back cups in just their 7th year of existence is pretty darn special. Putting NYI in the mix, 4 cups in a row is probably more impressive than them all.

And, fans being fans, that criteria changes depending on which makes your team “look” better. But it’s what makes this stuff fun, right? If a few Rags and/or Debbies get sprinkled in, so be it. Although, when it comes to lowbrow, hard to top NYR fans. “Beat You Wife Potvin” and “Uncle-Daddy” were especially brutal. And around and around we go...

Speaking of which, our own @kyk1827 having a twitter moment with Avery? What are you guys buds?

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Favorite professional athlete of all time

 

[mdh2003]

Favorite professional athlete of all time

Ha! You’re a pisser!

 

[mdh2003]

I think the Original Six era can’t be lumped in with later years because it was more like early baseball where certain teams had an advantage and could lock up the best players at the junior level and retain their rights (which gave the teams in natural hockey areas an advantage over NY and Chicago).

As a Ranger fan I think it is ridiculous that anyone can try and argue the Rangers have done better than the Devils or Islanders overall. My big argument is only that had the Ranger won in 79 or 14, they would actually be pretty average in their level of success, it’s just that the Devils’ and Islanders’ runs make them look worse than they have been.

All fair points. Plus, the DET and CHI semi-recent runs pretty much pushed NYR to bottom of the Org Six teams (at least for now).

NYR for the past 60 have been a very funny org. They are never the worst, not even the fifth worst, in any year. But also almost never finish first, either in the division or *obviously* the SCF. They have been the epitome of stuck in 2nd gear - never lose enough to get the really great players, and, what great players they had were *almost* never enough to get them over the top.

 

[krup]

All fair points. Plus, the DET and CHI semi-recent runs pretty much pushed NYR to bottom of the Org Six teams (at least for now).

NYR for the past 60 have been a very funny org. They are never the worst, not even the fifth worst, in any year. But also almost never finish first, either in the division or *obviously* the SCF. They have been the epitome of stuck in 2nd gear - never lose enough to get the really great players, and, what great players they had were *almost* never enough to get them over the top.

That’s what made a lot of Ranger fans excited when they actually did break things down and accept a period of losing in return for a better chance of actually winning.

Until we see how this summer goes, there is a lot of anxiety that Dolan getting involved means they will revert to their old ways,

 

[TM94goRU]

Silly season posts. While I have heard the NYI linked to VT from the Blues, I heard a NJD tidbit I found interesting. Jack Eichel is most likely done in Buffalo, on this video, the host throw out the Devils could get JE for the 4th pick this year and Nico. I think this is about right.
Personally, I would only give the 4th pick for MS defenseman TBL. Eichel having the neck issue, what say you.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

 

[TM94goRU]

Tad Brown formerly of the Houston Rockets, will oversee the 76ers and NJ Devils. I hope it goes well, but this is another sign Blitzer and Harris are NBA first owners, IMO.

 

[ClassOf02]

Pierre McGuire takes a front office job with the Ottawa Senators. No more listening to him feign all over Crosby & Ovechkin between the glass. Good day for hockey!

 

[TM94goRU]

Minnesota Wild bite the bullet, both Parise and Suter are being bought out. I thought a team could only buy out one, but I guess you can cut more.

 

[krup]

Minnesota Wild bite the bullet, both Parise and Suter are being bought out. I thought a team could only buy out one, but I guess you can cut more.

With the long history of Rangers’ buyouts I learned that if you have an RFA file for salary arbitration it opens up a second buyout window later in the summer.

I am guessing that while they did the press to announce Suter and Parise at the same time, one of them will not actually be procedurally bought out for a few weeks.

 

[TM94goRU]

With the long history of Rangers’ buyouts I learned that if you have an RFA file for salary arbitration it opens up a second buyout window later in the summer.

I am guessing that while they did the press to announce Suter and Parise at the same time, one of them will not actually be procedurally bought out for a few weeks.

Thanks, I heard it and was like WTH. Just the start to a very busy off-season.

 

[Ronnie_B]

Bettman sucks, hey now that the year is over, should we keep this thread for the off season, or start 21-22 for the expansion draft and free agency?
Ronnie B has not posted much here lately, I do not want to step on any toes, thoughts?

Sorry, been on vacation, I'll start a new thread now. @DJ Spanky you can close this one, thanks.

 

[krup]

Thanks, I heard it and was like WTH. Just the start to a very busy off-season.

Unfortunately, being a Ranger fan means you have to pay as much attention to the buyout structure of a player’s contract as you do their stats, trade value, etc.