Wow. Here I was thinking just certain areas were too lazy to pump. Full service is nearly impossible to find, and even when it is, its usually just a few pumps.
Never realized it was a Jersey thing.
Never realized it was a Jersey thing.
OT: NJ As Lone Holdout Against Self-Service Gas Pumps
- Thread starter RUinPinehurst
- Start date
The stereotypical arguments are just arguments. The only real argument for banning self-serve is that allowing self-serve will mean that full-serve will go away, just like it has elsewhere. And people in NJ want the convenience of full-serve ("convenience" defined as being that someone else does the work, not you). Full-serve might be a few pennies more costly, and a few seconds slower, but it is still more convenient.
Of course the stereotypical arguments for self-serve are just arguments. Self-serve isn't really that much faster ... it just seems faster because when you are filling your own tank you are doing something, but when someone else is filling your tank you are waiting for them to finish.
And while some stations are understaffed, you can just avoid them and go to the station that is fully staffed. Of course if you come to NJ from out of state, you don't know which station to use and which to avoid. While trying to avoid certain stations may be a little inconvenient, it is certainly a lot less inconvenient than trying to juggle my schedule so that I don't have to get gas while commuting to/from work in a suit.
Of course it is all just excuses. The real answer is I like the convenience of not having to get out of the car and pump my own gas.
When self service started in Arizona the gas was cheaper at those pumps that at full service, but once full service went the way of the dinosaur
gas prices rose just like full service never existed.
But mini markets and other outlets started building self service facilities causing the neighborhood gas station numbers declined.
But that's progress and expect NJ to drop full service, then see gas prices rise because nothing gets done without paying for it somehow.
It was more of a discussion. I think most people that are against full service live out of state but have experience with pumping gas in NJ. So there's no reason for any of us to bitch. More of a look at the pros and cons of a strange law that may become unique to NJ. And yeah, gasoline is a topic that creates strong opinions.
I think its always been funny to read certain NJ Politicians and Residents that scream "Choice! Choice! Choice!" at every turn...yet won't give NJ Residents the "Choice" to pump their own gas.
One has to ask why?
What are they afraid of?
One has to ask why?
What are they afraid of?
They're afraid that there won't be a choice. They're afraid that just like everywhere else, once gas stations can offer self service, they'll stop offering full service. So there still won't be a choice.
Why would it go away if as some say, millions still want full service? Smart business could easily capitalize on that situation.
But capitalism dude. Either capitalism doesn't work the way it is supposed to or people don't desire self service nearly as much as indicated by this thread and aren't willing to pay for it.
Weak response. Without getting into a political discussion of whether it should be this way or not, the fact remains that we do not live in a purely capitalistic society. There are a gazillion regulations that prevent most companies from operating in a purely capitalistic manner. Whether they are environmental regulations, health regulations, financial regulations, hiring regulations, etc., just about every company is impacted, and required to operate differently than they would in a purely capitalistic society.
The regulations regarding self-serve (even though limited to just NJ, Oregon, and parts of Long Island) are just an example of this. Gas stations can be more profitable by eliminating full-serve and providing just self-serve (which is why that is pretty much the exclusive model where self-serve is allowed). The only reason that gas stations don't offer self-serve in NJ is because they are not allowed to.
But the law prohibiting self-serve in NJ can be easily changed. The gas station lobby has advocated this for years. Over the past 20 years, multiple politicians in NJ have proposed allowing self-serve. And every time self-serve is proposed in NJ, the public overwhelmingly objects. If it weren't for the public opposition to self-serve in NJ, we would have self-serve. If most people in NJ wanted self-serve, we would have it.
So you are saying that people are willing to vote to limit a service but not willing to pay for that service.
Right now Texas is selling gas at 2.474 per gallon and New Jersey at 2.512. New Jersey is paying 3.8 cents per gallon less even though Texas tax is 5.5 cents higher. Self serve is cheaper by 9.3 cents per gallon. New York is only 30 cents more even though their tax is 47 cents higher. I think customer savings is a bigger force in play than station profit.
If you believe dropping full serve will make gas cos lower, you're fooling yourself
Gas prices for self serve would go up in the beginning because of the claim more maintenance needed
then when attendants were monitoring them and customers mistakes at the pumps have made stations need to fix and/or replace
more , driving up the cost of selling gas.
Installing new pumps will also be a driving factor in raising prices because of the so called need to make them more customer friendly.
My opinion is: getting rid of attendants won't drive the cost down , in a low cost state.
Might just make it easier for businesses to claim a need to raise prices a little bit to cover the change over and once that happens, cost won't go down.
If it's the convenience of pumping your own gas and time it takes , compared to having an attendant do it, I don't know which way is better and feel that a matter of individual choice.
But once self service is implemented in Jersey, don't expect to see stations offering full service choice for long and the price of gas won't go down.
More reasons will be found to raise prices than lower them.
For an expensive state to live in, NJ has a very reasonable gas price.
Some states with lower prices might just have a lower cost of living as well, which helps
keep their gas prices lower than Jersey's .
State Prices | AAA's Daily Fuel Gauge Report
http://fuelgaugereport.aaa.com/todays-gas-prices/
Gas prices for self serve would go up in the beginning because of the claim more maintenance needed
then when attendants were monitoring them and customers mistakes at the pumps have made stations need to fix and/or replace
more , driving up the cost of selling gas.
Installing new pumps will also be a driving factor in raising prices because of the so called need to make them more customer friendly.
My opinion is: getting rid of attendants won't drive the cost down , in a low cost state.
Might just make it easier for businesses to claim a need to raise prices a little bit to cover the change over and once that happens, cost won't go down.
If it's the convenience of pumping your own gas and time it takes , compared to having an attendant do it, I don't know which way is better and feel that a matter of individual choice.
But once self service is implemented in Jersey, don't expect to see stations offering full service choice for long and the price of gas won't go down.
More reasons will be found to raise prices than lower them.
For an expensive state to live in, NJ has a very reasonable gas price.
Some states with lower prices might just have a lower cost of living as well, which helps
keep their gas prices lower than Jersey's .
State Prices | AAA's Daily Fuel Gauge Report
http://fuelgaugereport.aaa.com/todays-gas-prices/
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Jiggs -- According to Gasbuddy.com, the average price of gas in NY state is $2.84. According to the American Petroleum Institute, the tax on gas in NY state (including federal tax) is $0.6286 per gallon. So the price of gas in NY State, without taxes is $2.21. In Pennsylvania it is $2.11. And in NJ it is $2.17.
So with full serve in NJ (excluding taxes) we pay 6 cents more than self serve in PA and 4 cents less than self serve in NY.
But considering there is a 10 cents difference (after accounting for taxes) between self-serve in PA and NY, I guess there is some other significant factor at play here.
Nonetheless, if people in NJ wanted self-serve, there would not be so much opposition every time a politician proposes self-serve, and we would have it.
So with full serve in NJ (excluding taxes) we pay 6 cents more than self serve in PA and 4 cents less than self serve in NY.
But considering there is a 10 cents difference (after accounting for taxes) between self-serve in PA and NY, I guess there is some other significant factor at play here.
Nonetheless, if people in NJ wanted self-serve, there would not be so much opposition every time a politician proposes self-serve, and we would have it.
Not even remotely true. The NJGRA does not want self serve and has actively opposed change. The law itself exists because of the NJGRA.
The NJGRA represents small, independent gas stations. It used to oppose self serve. It no longer opposes self serve because its membership is split on the idea.
The convenience store association and petroleum council have lobbied in support self serve, as have several of the corporations that own and operate chains of gas stations. http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/legislativepub/pubhear/040300rs.htm
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No they didn't. Gas station owners made a choice.
But nonetheless, in NJ, the public has made the choice that they want full-serve. That is why none of the proposals to allow self-serve have gained traction.
Here in NH there are very few gas stations that offer both. It varies more by the gas station as a whole.
If there is/was any demand, gas stations meet it. But there isn't enough; people buy gas based on price.
The NJ public hasn't actually been given an opportunity for choice.
All I know is that I was born and raised in NJ and lived there for over 50 years and never had to pump my own gas. So now that I live in NY I will continue to drive to NJ to get my gas. You can't teach this 'old dog' new tricks.
Then how do you post? Operating a computer or smart phone has to be a newer more complicated trick than pumping gas.
I began operating computers in 1966 on an IBM 1401 and worked with computers until 2006 when I retired . I don't have a smart phone because I don't need one.
Aside from taxes, NJ has cheaper gas prices because of refining capacity and transportation costs. NJ's gas prices are actually elevated somewhat (I have no idea how much) due to regulations requiring vapor collection apparatus on every pump handle. Without the vapor collection regs, and with self-serve, NJ should have gas prices close to those in South Carolina (cheapest gas state). Perhaps the cost of real estate for the station itself would make NJ higher.
Serious question for those who live out of state -- How do disabled people get gas? I assume there has to be a way. But if you can't easily get out of your car, how do you serve yourself, or signal that you need an attendant (if one even exists)?
I imagine they plan ahead and go to a full service gas station.
Self-serve pumps do have "alternate control buttons" down low in many places.
I've got a friend with muscular dystrophy who drives. She usually just asks a friend to do it when they are driving together. Many pumps have a button you can push to call for an attendant that she can use. And some people rely on the kindness of strangers. I've had a disabled person get my attention and ask me to pump gas for them on two occasions.
