I know its Rutgers Camden but the very fact that Rutgers is named in the article irritates me! SMH
Pedophilia not a crime....
Pedophilia not a crime....
OT: Rutgers Law Prof Who Says Pedophilia Is Not a Crime
- Thread starter BigDaddyLane
- Start date
That was actually a well thought out response to each of the questions by the author. An interesting read no doubt.
But you are basically saying, hey, let's take it easy on pedophiles.[/B]
Well, but I am not saying that about sex offenders. I say that they[/I] remain responsible for their conduct. We need to treat pedophiles before[/I] they offend. People see the word "pedophile" and think "sex offender." People choose to sex offend children. They do not choose to be pedophiles.
Germany is ahead of the curve. They have a large scale treatment program called Prevention Project Dunkenfeld, which is probably the first large scale treatment project that also includes non-offenders. They have billboards everywhere: "Do you have attraction to children in ways that you shouldn't? You are not responsible for your attraction, but you are responsible for your behavior."
Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/10/06/pedophilia-not-a-crime-rutgers-margo-kaplan/#k18oB6bL3QX69pZI.99
This post was edited on 3/23 10:25 PM by jay_hq
Well, but I am not saying that about sex offenders. I say that they[/I] remain responsible for their conduct. We need to treat pedophiles before[/I] they offend. People see the word "pedophile" and think "sex offender." People choose to sex offend children. They do not choose to be pedophiles.
Germany is ahead of the curve. They have a large scale treatment program called Prevention Project Dunkenfeld, which is probably the first large scale treatment project that also includes non-offenders. They have billboards everywhere: "Do you have attraction to children in ways that you shouldn't? You are not responsible for your attraction, but you are responsible for your behavior."
Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/10/06/pedophilia-not-a-crime-rutgers-margo-kaplan/#k18oB6bL3QX69pZI.99
This post was edited on 3/23 10:25 PM by jay_hq
Sure there is. Not many professors would take the position of my colleague Professor Kaplan. Regardless of what you think of her proposal, she is quite courageous to take such an unpopular stand. The Rutgers community ought to be proud of her.
I don't understand your point, so you rather pedophiles rape children instead of getting treatment before they commit crimes?Originally posted by BigDaddyLane:
I know its Rutgers Camden but the very fact that Rutgers is named in the article irritates me! SMH
But let's never miss an opportunity for a paranoid Luddite to turn a complex legal or psychological issue into another polarizing political grindstone.
And You're Not a Murder Until You Actually Kill Someone
If the Mental Health establishment has now classified Pedophilia as a Disease, then why not classify Murderer's, Rapists & Assault as Diseases as well.
At least Alcoholics (i.e. in the Disease model) are inflicting their wounds mostly upon themselves (physically).
Everything is a "Disease" ....even posting on this board or replying!
MO
If the Mental Health establishment has now classified Pedophilia as a Disease, then why not classify Murderer's, Rapists & Assault as Diseases as well.
At least Alcoholics (i.e. in the Disease model) are inflicting their wounds mostly upon themselves (physically).
Everything is a "Disease" ....even posting on this board or replying!
MO
Re: And You're Not a Murder Until You Actually Kill Someone
There is a world of difference between recognizing a symptom and treating a disease versus holding someone accountable and punishing them for a criminal act. Thoughts themselves are not illegal - but you do the crime, you do the time. This professor tries to make a clear distinction between the two. Those who are upset about her comments simply haven't read and understood what she is saying.
If there is a way for someone who has a mental health issue to seek help before committing a crime (and thereby reducing the rate of crime and victimization) I don't see what is so wrong with talking about it.
I'm not a mental health professional, but I would guess that some of those things fall under violent sociopathy. It would be nice if there was a way to recognize symptoms of this and introduce treatments (such as participation in sports or more social activities) before they turned into killers.
There is a world of difference between recognizing a symptom and treating a disease versus holding someone accountable and punishing them for a criminal act. Thoughts themselves are not illegal - but you do the crime, you do the time. This professor tries to make a clear distinction between the two. Those who are upset about her comments simply haven't read and understood what she is saying.
If there is a way for someone who has a mental health issue to seek help before committing a crime (and thereby reducing the rate of crime and victimization) I don't see what is so wrong with talking about it.
Re: And You're Not a Murder Until You Actually Kill Someone
This post was edited on 3/26 8:15 AM by DaveSNJ
Assuming Matt is an attorney it pains me to say I am in agreement. It also demonstrates how poor reading comprehension is across this board membership, which is pretty embarrassing.
This post was edited on 3/26 8:15 AM by DaveSNJ
Re: And You're Not a Murder Until You Actually Kill Someone
Clearly, there is a legal distinction between predilection and actions. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would steal a lot of money if they were given the chance, but either never get the chance or act upon it. Nobody would certainly think that they should be prosecuted for having only lousy ethics.
However, it seems to me that many pedophiles actually believe that they are giving these children "love" and that they are willing participants. This is not the same thing as many rapists who usually hate their victims. At least this is what I have taken from the way many of these cases are presented legally.
But, no matter what their motivations, both are clearly culpable for their actions. Once it goes from fantasy to reality, you have victims and a crime.
Clearly, there is a legal distinction between predilection and actions. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would steal a lot of money if they were given the chance, but either never get the chance or act upon it. Nobody would certainly think that they should be prosecuted for having only lousy ethics.
However, it seems to me that many pedophiles actually believe that they are giving these children "love" and that they are willing participants. This is not the same thing as many rapists who usually hate their victims. At least this is what I have taken from the way many of these cases are presented legally.
But, no matter what their motivations, both are clearly culpable for their actions. Once it goes from fantasy to reality, you have victims and a crime.
"We need to treat pedophiles before they offend. People see the word "pedophile" and think "sex offender." People choose to sex offend children. They do not choose to be pedophiles."
There can be some truth to that. A lot of abusers and molesters were themselves molested as children. The shock and upset of violation and trauma can do strange things. A persons "critical functions" or reasoning/perceiving awareness can be suspended. The door to the subconscious and psyche is left open. Impressions of events, nature of violation etc gains access to the subconscious which can latter overcome the intellect (as with flashbacks - which are "trapped" impressions). A trauma conditioned "false" self will seek to reinforce itself via similar experiences - like a salmon returning to spawning ground.
I knew of a guy who as a kid was abused in the woods by an older guy who used fire as a ritual during abuse. The kid grew up to be an arsonist - his sexual nature got tangled up with the fire present in trauma.
Don't expect much from "therapy". Meds and chit chat don't really fix that. Acting like "treating" pedophiles before they offend is not only wrong but can make things worse. Like alcoholism and AA, a deeper identity impacting approach is best - a counter-trauma.
Its also worth mentioning that many studies show homosexual males have been abused at much higher rates (35-45% not unusual) than others. Abused people often develop an attraction or aversion to trauma source. A male abuse by a male can go on being compelled to be drawn to other males (salmon thing again). This is also a reason homosexual males abuse at higher rates (yes its true despite the PC denial) . Often victims block out trauma events and can't even recall being abused. I doubt Ms RU Prof will carry on with other aspects of her insights.
There can be some truth to that. A lot of abusers and molesters were themselves molested as children. The shock and upset of violation and trauma can do strange things. A persons "critical functions" or reasoning/perceiving awareness can be suspended. The door to the subconscious and psyche is left open. Impressions of events, nature of violation etc gains access to the subconscious which can latter overcome the intellect (as with flashbacks - which are "trapped" impressions). A trauma conditioned "false" self will seek to reinforce itself via similar experiences - like a salmon returning to spawning ground.
I knew of a guy who as a kid was abused in the woods by an older guy who used fire as a ritual during abuse. The kid grew up to be an arsonist - his sexual nature got tangled up with the fire present in trauma.
Don't expect much from "therapy". Meds and chit chat don't really fix that. Acting like "treating" pedophiles before they offend is not only wrong but can make things worse. Like alcoholism and AA, a deeper identity impacting approach is best - a counter-trauma.
Its also worth mentioning that many studies show homosexual males have been abused at much higher rates (35-45% not unusual) than others. Abused people often develop an attraction or aversion to trauma source. A male abuse by a male can go on being compelled to be drawn to other males (salmon thing again). This is also a reason homosexual males abuse at higher rates (yes its true despite the PC denial) . Often victims block out trauma events and can't even recall being abused. I doubt Ms RU Prof will carry on with other aspects of her insights.
