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Rapid Reaction - Mississippi State

MSU physically dominated Rutgers on the boards, in the paint , and in the score. When you're this overmatched upfront, then you need guards who can hit from outside and we don't have them. It was painful watching the rebounding. Rutgers guards are small and don't rebound. Other than Cliff ( today the exception) , Rutgers does not have a reliable second rebounder.....
 
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Three reasons we lost.
MSU out rebounded us by almost 20
They had 5 turnovers, we had 12
They went 22/24 from the line we were 11/14
 
Three reasons we lost.
MSU out rebounded us by almost 20
They had 5 turnovers, we had 12
They went 22/24 from the line we were 11/14
We were not ready for this aggressive and fast a team. Our guards are too damn small and the NCAA won’t act on Williams to make him eligible.
 
Sorry NJH…..

This team needs to play slow and not fast.

Obvious issue is rebounding

Once we get past that it is our guards offensively. How many times are we going to watch guards get to the paint and throw circus shots at the rim, completely ignoring the 4 players around them.

Simpson is now 1/3 through his career. There is supposed to be a learning curve. He isnt on it.
 
And caught in the crosshairs or crossfire of this roster transition, are Davis, Simpson, and Griffiths, who have abilities to create, but don't have the wings or forwards to compliment their skill sets.……..

We could have Chris Mullin, Glen Rice and Kiki Vandeweghe on this team and our guards wouldnt find them.

We have Cliff who has led the nation in dunks with a PG focused on getting him the ball
 
No fluctuation. Covid, almost sweet 16, eliminated in play-in, lost in NIT at home to Hofstra, this dumpster fire. Peaked in March 2021, since then to now have gotten progressively worse as a program.
(1) sounds like fluctuation to me
(2) we have a top recruiting class next year
 
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(1) sounds like fluctuation to me
(2) we have a top recruiting class next year
1) that’s straight down the mountain, fluctuations are downs AND ups
2) look up what Kentucky did when they were the last ones to get two top five recruits in the same class (but I’m hoping we do have great success next year - I’m just worried about our downward trajectory on the court since March 2021)
 
1) that’s straight down the mountain, fluctuations are downs AND ups
2) look up what Kentucky did when they were the last ones to get two top five recruits in the same class (but I’m hoping we do have great success next year - I’m just worried about our downward trajectory on the court since March 2021)
1) it’s basically 2 straight down moves. I don’t think fluctuation implies you need to switch direction literally every season.
2) I’m not guaranteeing great success next season. But a top recruiting class addresses a lot of the issues people bring up. Unless you are seriously suggesting that Pike’s coaching ability has significantly declined since two years ago the difference would be the players.
 
Sorry NJH…..

This team needs to play slow and not fast.

Obvious issue is rebounding

Once we get past that it is our guards offensively. How many times are we going to watch guards get to the paint and throw circus shots at the rim, completely ignoring the 4 players around them.

Simpson is now 1/3 through his career. There is supposed to be a learning curve. He isnt on it.
Good that you point this out. I feel our team plays selfishly. Too often on a break they are more interested in scoring ( especially if they stole the ball) than passing it to the teammate in the best position to score. The team chemistry is lacking.........
 
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A key aspect to this game was when Rutgers led 20-15 and Mississippi State was in a long scoring drought.Rutgers failed to extend the lead and once the second half started Mississippi dominated the game at both ends of the court.Combine abysmal shooting with poor rebounding the result of the game was never in doubt.
 
Full stop with the rebounding. With us getting obliterated on boards any discussion about Paul and Cam is silly.
I think Pike had always envisioned this year as a transition period to the uptempo offense we are going to run with Harper and Bailey next year.

We were planning on sacrificing a bit on defense and rebounding in order to get out and run more. Mulcahy was always good at outlet passes. Cam was always good at transition 3s. Cliff was always good at beating the opposing center down the court.

And in the half court, you could post Mulcahy or run a pick and roll with Cliff. Cam and Gavin could just pitch tents out on the perimeter.

Now none of that is here. Additionally we have to play Simpson significant minutes and he’s still too raw. And now Gavin is forced to create his own shot.

So while Paul and Cam probably don’t help rebounding much, their absence significantly hurts us in other ways.
 
1) it’s basically 2 straight down moves. I don’t think fluctuation implies you need to switch direction literally every season.
2) I’m not guaranteeing great success next season. But a top recruiting class addresses a lot of the issues people bring up. Unless you are seriously suggesting that Pike’s coaching ability has significantly declined since two years ago the difference would be the players.
1) fair enough. We’re on the same page.
2) I am very hopeful for next year, as for Pikes coaching, no, I’m more inclined to say his perception of talent and team building has declined
 
Sorry NJH…..

This team needs to play slow and not fast.

Obvious issue is rebounding

Once we get past that it is our guards offensively. How many times are we going to watch guards get to the paint and throw circus shots at the rim, completely ignoring the 4 players around them.

Simpson is now 1/3 through his career. There is supposed to be a learning curve. He isnt on it.
you are spot on. The best chance to win as many games we can this year is to go back to defense and try to grind teams down. Chucking up perimeter shots with 7 seconds run off the shot clock or driving through trees twisting away is a surefire way to go through long periods of offensive futility. Hawk still believe that Derek is a Geo when he has shown he is a rail thin player that was not recruited by many other schools
 
My way too early Final Four prediction:
Wake Forest
Miss St
Princeton
Illinois

All decent rebounding teams.
 
(1) sounds like fluctuation to me
(2) we have a top recruiting class next year
its a bit down the mountain and if we werent getting 2 of the top 3 recruits we would be considering it serious trouble. That said we will be completely different next year BUT there need to be a strong portal season to augment these 2 stars
 
Good that you point this out. I feel our team plays selfishly. Too often on a break they are more interested in scoring ( especially if they stole the ball) than passing it to the teammate in the best position to score. The team chemistry is lacking.........

Mag dribbled down on one break with Hyatt wide open on the wing. He buried his head down and just plowed ahead toward the basket doing it all by himself. He drew the foul, but he should have passed to a teammate for an easy bucket. This was a perfect example of this.
 
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1) fair enough. We’re on the same page.
2) I am very hopeful for next year, as for Pikes coaching, no, I’m more inclined to say his perception of talent and team building has declined
2) I think he built basically the same kinds of teams from 2021-2023. I’m sure he would’ve preferred Jacob and Myles had stayed. Last years’ team wasn’t badly conceived but it lacked depth.

Pike is not going to come out and tell you that he knows his team is flawed, but the issues with last previous teams, to me, are more that Pike was unable to bring in or retain the players he needed rather than him being unable to recognize the needs. I think this is likely to be addressed with the recent uptick in recruiting.
 
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its a bit down the mountain and if we werent getting 2 of the top 3 recruits we would be considering it serious trouble. That said we will be completely different next year BUT there need to be a strong portal season to augment these 2 stars
Yes if we had nothing coming in I would be much more concerned. But the bottom line is we do have an excellent (understatement) recruiting class.
 
Yes if we had nothing coming in I would be much more concerned. But the bottom line is we do have an excellent (understatement) recruiting class.
I know but this year is this year...for this current team Pike isnt handing this well., My biggest question is why Derek is being allowed to jack up 14 shots despite a history of not really being able to make him while Gavin is relegated to 18 minutes while showing some nifty moves to the hoop and not being able to play long stretches to get him acclimated nor integrated into a functioning offense.
 
Some of our fans are just shitbags.

There was a guy a couple rows back from me screaming “Go back to Elon” at Oskar Palmquist today after he missed a three. Honestly embarrassing.
Really ? Said nothing about Gavin I’m sure. The only reason he played at all is because most of the other players sucked.
 
I know but this year is this year...for this current team Pike isnt handing this well., My biggest question is why Derek is being allowed to jack up 14 shots despite a history of not really being able to make him while Gavin is relegated to 18 minutes while showing some nifty moves to the hoop and not being able to play long stretches to get him acclimated nor integrated into a functioning offense.
I don’t know. Gavin has not played well. No one really has played well. Simpson is maybe shooting too much, I’m not saying Pike had done everything right, but there is only so much you can do if this is how your players are going to play.
 
Really ? Said nothing about Gavin I’m sure. The only reason he played at all is because most of the other players sucked.

Oskar is not the issue with this team, he’s irrelevant to the issues of this group. Cliff and Mag combining for ONE rebound, the entire team destroyed on the boards, a lack of toughness and fight, poor shooting, poor shot selection, guards who can’t drive and dish for a dunk or kick out for an open three….Oskar got nothing to do with those issues when he plays like what 3 minutes???
 
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Oskar is not the issue with this team, he’s irrelevant to the issues of this group. Cliff and Mag combining for ONE rebound, the entire team destroyed on the boards, a lack of toughness and fight, poor shooting, poor shot selection, guards who can’t drive and dish for a dunk or kick out for an open three….Oskar got nothing to do with those issues when he plays like what 3 minutes???
Yep. Ridiculous to shout at Oskar. It wasn’t a good 3pt look, especially since it happened right after the flubbed layup, but of all the players today, the except for Hyatt, Oskar was the last one to criticize
 
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I said it before and I’ll keep saying it. Our strength development is terrible. It looked like skinny kids playing against grown men. That leads to our rebounding problems. We get moved off spots way to easily.
Maybe we should stop recruiting skinny kids.
 
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We replaced 6-7 Caleb, 6-6 Paul, and 6-4 Cam…

with…

5-11 Noah, Skinny 6-3 Derek, and 6-2 JMike, plus rail thin and inexperienced 6-7 Gavin.

Our toughness, defense, and rebounding have plummeted as a direct result.

And it’s not like the four replacements are lighting it up on the offensive end.
 
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No fluctuation. Covid, almost sweet 16, eliminated in play-in, lost in NIT at home to Hofstra, this dumpster fire. Peaked in March 2021, since then to now have gotten progressively worse as a program.
C'mon, we probably had our best team under Pike last year until Mag got hurt and things unraveled. And even with that, if not for the stolen game (OSU), we were absolutely in the field of 64 and even with that loss we got screwed by the committee, being left out.
 
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I disagree that its a strength and conditioning issue..Mississippi State was just naturally much bigger. The team was
not aggressive enough today and unfortunately has no one to knock down shots (gavin has been disappointing in that aspect, and so have our guards). If we want any shot at making the tourney the team needs to go all in on defensive side of the ball with cliff davis and mag playing heavy minutes.
I hate to be the one to break this To you, but we have no chance of making the NCAA tournament. We don’t have a single good OOC win, we would have to go at least 13-7 in conference to be considered, that given that we can’t shoot or rebound, that will not happen.
 
I didn’t realize that Mag was playing hurt today. That may explain his performance. His 1 rebound was almost as bad as Cliff’s ZERO. If Cliff and Mag don’t/can’t rebound, we have no chance.
 
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I think or hope fans realize that the roster is moving into a transition where players who are more suited to play at a faster pace, are mixed with some players who are truly "station to station" or below the rim players.

The thread above this is loaded with horrible or inaccurate stuff, because fans aren't willing to understand that this roster is the extension of where it left off in February and March last year. It was fading then, because of a lack of athletic abilities and most of the roster up front, kinda looks the same way.

Mag is a good, complimentary player on a NCAA caliber roster. He is a battlefield player who gets junkyard points, but isn't athletic enough or has the skill sets to run, jump and elevate
to shoot and score/rebound with a roster like Illinois or Mississippi State or a good amount of the NCAA caliber teams we will see.

Hyatt is also a station to station player who is more like Mag, and plays below the rim, not a leaper....he can help you with his shooting and some postups on occasion, but not a athletic ability type of player you can ask to match up with the more complete front court rosters that typically are NCAA caliber.

We then add to those front court pieces, Oskar Palmquist who is best suited as a spot up shooter off the bench.....and then another player who I think has more upside or athletic abilities in Woolfolk, but he's asked to play a backup 5 or undersized 4, without the footspeed or hops to compete at this level.

Soooo......is the season lost?? It's far from lost, but understand that we have Jeremiah Williams on this roster for a reason....he matches up and prevents the drives into the lane that led to layups or dunks vs Illinois or Mississippi State. He isn't solving the rebounding woes, but gets some 50/50 loose balls that we don't get without a Caleb McConnell.

And caught in the crosshairs or crossfire of this roster transition, are Davis, Simpson, and Griffiths, who have abilities to create, but don't have the wings or forwards to compliment their skill sets.

I thought Gavin Griffiths took another step forward today, but fans will only look at his 3 point misses. He actually challenged the MSU defense (because he has the complete offensive game, to do so) multiple times and elevated to score and draw a foul. If the rest of the forwards played with a faster pace or had a higher playmaking ability, it opens things up for him. The pass when Gavin should have just shot the ball from the corner in the 2nd half, comes from not having other forwards who can cut/slash and playmake.

All things considered, with how this roster will look in a year, I'm hopeful that Davis is fine and not concerned about Simpson today. His shooting was woeful and not good at all, but he's another player like Davis, who's better suited in an up tempo roster, where the pieces fit.

In terms of Mississippi State, Jans, the former coach at New Mexico State, is a grinder. He clearly scouted RU very well and interrupted a lot of what we wanted to run. Hedges against our forwards on the dribble handoff for Hyatt and Mag designed to get a preferred switch or matchup, completely took both players out of rhythm.....and because neither forward is a true dribble-drive or create their own offense PF or SFs, there wasn't another answer to get the ball moving......both Mag and Hyatt played well and within their abilities, which is all you can ask for.

Most of today, had a look and feel of February last year and into March. It's going to take more time for Griffiths, Davis and Simpson to take some steps forward and we have to hope Jeremiah Williams gets cleared, if fans are more concerned with just this one season, vs looking how things should look 2024-25 and beyond
Good take. The question is, will we get Jeremiah Williams to play this year? That will help a lot. And I agree with you with Gavin. I too think he's progressing, and by the end of the year, he will be a major piece of next year's puzzle. I really like this kid, and I believe he has a lot to offer, as he puts more muscle on his body and has more experience playing a B1G schedule.
 
C'mon, we probably had our best team under Pike last year until Mag got hurt and things unraveled. And even with that, if not for the stolen game (OSU), we were absolutely in the field of 64 and even with that loss we got screwed by the committee, being left out.
Injuries are part of sports and the “team” put together was quite poor as we found out. Mag is a solid player but some of those games we lost down the stretch shouldn’t have been because we lost only one player. To lose like we did to Hofstra was the exclamation point on how bad the whole year was. Also the abysmal Seton Hall at home game included Mag
 
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Injuries are part of sports and the “team” put together was quite poor as we found out. Mag is a solid player but some of those games we lost down the stretch shouldn’t have been because we lost only one player. To lose like we did to Hofstra was the exclamation point on how bad the whole year was. Also the abysmal Seton Hall at home game included Mag
But the whole discussion is moot if that OSU game hadn't been stolen from us by the refs. We were clearly a tourney worthy team last year.
 
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But the whole discussion is moot if that OSU game hadn't been stolen from us by the refs. We were clearly a tourney worthy team last year.
But the bottom line was an “L”, and it would have never come to that last shot if the coaching in the last 20-30 seconds wasn’t so abysmal
 
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the comment about watching those guys during warmups was spot on; there was big, very big, and the very biggest; was like watching O line pound away on the D; and their 6'11 280 Grad Transfer was pounding away. Refs didn't help with some crap calls; and this was not a game to rely on Wolf to go against their large rotation. And that is where Ogbole needs to show up sooner then later. Place wanted to be loud and was trying... but no momentum. And don't asked me what the heck the Oskar, Williams, Gavin rotation was about - but please no more of that.
 
1. Absolutely MANHANDLED on the boards 47-26. MSU had 13 offensive rebounds. Cliff with ZERO rebounds. Even Mag had just 1 rebound. MSU had a lot of size up front, and we just couldn’t handle it.

2. We’re a bad shooting team quite obviously, and shot 3-17 from deep today. Hyatt 3-6 but rest of team 0-11. Highly disappointed that GG continues to struggle from deep.

3. Simpson just awful from the field today. Was 0-8 at one point, just killing us on possession after possession. Finished 3-14 (0-4).

4. JMike hurt leg in second half. He came back in but then didn’t play down the stretch. We’re in huge trouble if he’s out for any long period of time.

5. Cliff was just dominated by another physical big man. Bell with career highs of 17 pts and 18 rebounds. Cliff in foul trouble and finished with 3 points and 0 rebounds. Awful.

6. Hyatt was the only player with a pulse on offense. Finished with 18 and 6 on 6-11 (3-6) from the floor, and had that nice steal and three at the end of the first half.

7. Can see why Mag was listed as questionable. He was definitely favoring the leg, especially in the 2nd half. Kudos to him for playing through the discomfort.

8. Pretty clear now that this team is not an NCAA tournament team. We have been dominated by four likely tournament teams, but teams that — except for perhaps Illinois — aren’t World beaters. We just don’t have the size, toughness, length, or scoring skill to compete this year.
Number 4 - And down the stretch was the difference. After Mag, JMike might be our most indispensable player. This is a sub .500 team without him.
 
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