Rutgers Law Mention

[pmvon]

US News and world report.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/10-law-schools-where-salaries-grads-most-outweigh-130000440--finance.html

 

[NotInRHouse]

Those average salaries are a load of crap. Yale included.

 

[retired711]

Originally posted by NotInRHouse:

Those average salaries are a load of crap. Yale included.

As a professor of mine used to ask, "what's your data?"

 

[NotInRHouse]

Some examples:

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/03/17/law-schools-now-paying-their-graduates-salaries-to-look-better-in-school-rankings/

http://chronicle.com/article/12-More-Law-Schools-Face/130621/

http://outsidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2013/11/what-washington-and-lee-law-salary.html

And not only that, but the starting salary at Big Law firms is 160k...which would mean if that's the average, practically no one is clerking or taking any non-big law job...which at a school like Yale that places a ton of students in federal clerkships is hogwash.

Not only that but RU-N places a very high proportion of students into state clerkships which pay in the low 40s. It's something like 1/3 (at least)....on top of all the alums making 40k on a good day because of the economy and maybe, maybe, 10% making 160 in NYC big law which I'm giving every benefit of the doubt on...top NJ firms pay 145 best day starting...

As the articles point out, the schools lie: they pay their own alums to make it seem like everyone is working, and when a small percentage reply to employment surveys- and normally it's the ones thrilled with the high salaries, they make it seem like 160k is the average and then you see a little asterisk for "reported".

It's a total scam and it's not just a RU problem- it's a national problem and no one is making the law schools take it seriously.

 

[rufancoe00]

according to the original article, it states Private Sector only. I am asuming clerking and government jobs are not included

 

[NotInRHouse]

Which is deception in and of itself because it doesn't point how many people are doing those jobs and what they consitute.

Since most of the those schools are private, they can employ their own grads and count it.

And even still, 160k assumes pretty much everyone at big law in San Fran, LA, DC, Chicago, NYC or Boston. Which is baloney.

 

[retired711]

NIRB, remember that NYC firms usually pay more than firms elsewhere (in part because of cost of living, in part because it is so horrible to be an associate at a big NYC law firm.) It just could be that Yale, with its relatively small class, places a large percentage of its grads at such firms.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

This is really an interesting topic.

Very recently Forbes magazine (6 days ago) tried to tackle this law salary subject.

The Forbes article "Law Schools whose Grads make the Highest Starting Salaries" by Susan Adams (Forbes Staff) 3/28/14.

Excellent read if your interested and does a good job of explaining the facts.

Part of the problem is some schools report salary results for 90% of their class and others may be basing results on data from 30% reporting.

I think starting Law School salaries no longer follow a typical bell curve. It is actually more bi model in appearance.

Starting salaries from the Top Law firms average $160,000 (maybe 20 % of all recent law grads) and the rest (maybe 80% of class) will have an average starting salary of about $50,000-$60,000.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

This post was edited on 4/3 1:33 PM by Panthergrowl13

 

[lawmatt78]

I see Mich is at the top of the salaries. That's the only part I am certain is accurate. :)

 

[NotInRHouse]

NYC base pay is still 160k- as it is for the other big cities I mentioned.

The study would presume that no one from those schools went elsewhere into the private sector and did anything else, or went to a city like Houston or Dallas where they would get 145k.

Again...it just makes no sense. This salary data is bogus 99% of the time.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Originally posted by NotInRHouse:
NYC base pay is still 160k- as it is for the other big cities I mentioned.

The study would presume that no one from those schools went elsewhere into the private sector and did anything else, or went to a city like Houston or Dallas where they would get 145k.

Again...it just makes no sense. This salary data is bogus 99% of the time.

Exactly. Who are the people making more than $160k to counter those who took jobs in other cities, or took private sector jobs at small or mid-size firms? They are claiming their average is the highest paid job you can land out of law school, outside of some very unusual non-legal executive position that a well connected graduate might be able to get. Its simply impossible.

 

[retired711]

Originally posted by Ole Cabbagehead:

Originally posted by NotInRHouse:
NYC base pay is still 160k- as it is for the other big cities I mentioned.

The study would presume that no one from those schools went elsewhere into the private sector and did anything else, or went to a city like Houston or Dallas where they would get 145k.

Again...it just makes no sense. This salary data is bogus 99% of the time.

Exactly. Who are the people making more than $160k to counter those who took jobs in other cities, or took private sector jobs at small or mid-size firms? They are claiming their average is the highest paid job you can land out of law school, outside of some very unusual non-legal executive position that a well connected graduate might be able to get. Its simply impossible.

Is their number an average or a median? If 51% of the class gets jobs at 160K firms -- difficult but not impossible to believe -- that the median would indeed be 160K.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I really doubt it. And one of my best friends graduated from BC Law in 2012, and I know he had a ton of friends unemployed.

That and the 160k is somewhat outdated, as not all big firms pay that now, and secondly, only the biggest market ones do. Are we to believe that 51% of Yale grads work at BigLaw select firms in NYC, LA, SF, DC and Boston? Maybe Chicago pays that, not sure. All the Southern and Midwestern people just came to Yale and saw no reason to return? Sounds just a little off.

Those figures are incredibly deceptive- even if it's a median, it's a reported median. The law school doesn't, of course, call the waiter alumni and ask why he didn't fill out their survey. And John Q. Dadisalawpartner is all too eager to fill out his. Few are honest enough like the sheep farmer alum from Michigan a few years ago.

It's just a little too coincidental how round those numbers are...the ABA needs to say enough is enough.