You don't need a practice facility

[TheB1GTerp]

I do sports consulting and will be making trip up tommorow to visit RAC.

Many programs do not have a practice facility, including Maryland,and although the plan is to build one,
it is a luxury.

Rutgers is JUST entering big time athletics. I didn't expect them to be up to par across the board in the first 5 years. Money has been well spent getting your football program competitive. That should be first priority.

As a outsider I would say these can help Rutgers more first in basketball.

#1 recruit your local area hard,local coaches, camps, advertise
#2 open a dialogue about a new arena or massive renovations. Stadiums are very expensive.
#3 basketball can be turned around a lot faster than football.
#4 grass roots effort with students, get them to games and give them best seats, old white guys can sit court side or 10 rows back
#5 wait for a good winning season then announce plans for stadium and solicit donors then. No one wants to back a loser. You may lose lnext season but get that money when you have that good season.


It's not easy, but I'd sell the prospect of a great future at Rutgers to recruits for bball. Eddie Jordan was in the NBA and believes in Rutgers. Let them know they can be hometown heroes and when they are seniors they will open a new arena, a new Era of jersey basketball.


Heard a lot about the practice facility and its a lot of money that will yield little results when you got other options.

This post was edited on 3/2 3:27 PM by TheB1GTerp

 

[Aggs]

Originally posted by TheB1GTerp:


As a outsider I would say these can help Rutgers more first in basketball.

#1 recruit your local area hard,local coaches, camps, advertise
#2 open a dialogue about a new arena or massive renovations. Stadiums are very expensive.
#3 basketball can be turned around a lot faster than football.
#4 grass roots effort with students, get them to games and give them best seats, old white guys can sit court side or 10 rows back
#5 wait for a good winning season then announce plans for stadium and solicit donors then. No one wants to back a loser. You may lose lnext season but get that money when you have that good season.

It's not easy, but I'd sell the prospect of a great future at Rutgers to recruits for bball. Eddie Jordan was in the NBA and believes in Rutgers. Let them know they can be hometown heroes and when they are seniors they will open a new arena, a new Era of jersey basketball.

#1 - "Great future at Rutgers." As opposed to a bleak future at other schools like Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Villanova, Georgetown, UCLA, etc? Even the next tier of schools can sell at least as good a future at Rutgers. The tiebreaker is tournament success, good coaching, good facilities, good fan base, etc.

#2 - No one is talking about building a new arena. 99% of people on the board want a practice facility first.

#3 - I guess. But that doesn't mean you do nothing to improve yourself compared to your peers.

#4 - Can't piss off the long-suffering fans who buy season-tickets. Also there are not enough students who care about Rutgers basketball because of a 24-year tournament drought and 30-point losses, bad shooting teams and scandals.

#5 - I agree, but replace stadium with practice facility and RAC upgrades.

To your last point, some players care about having a coach from the NBA. But what players really want is someone who takes THEM to the NBA. So John Calipari and Rick Pitino ultimately failed in the NBA, but they know how to win and send kids to the NBA. That's always more important.


This post was edited on 3/2 1:37 PM by Aggs

 

[MGSA99]

I would love to have the students surround the court. Many of the 100 seats are vacant or being sold to opposing fans anyway. Kick the wine and cheese crowd out and give the most loyal RAC Packers those seats.

 

[ruman]

Originally posted by MGSA99:
I would love to have the students surround the court. Many of the 100 seats are vacant or being sold to opposing fans anyway. Kick the wine and cheese crowd out and give the most loyal RAC Packers those seats.

Yea - with all those students packing the student section now, this is a great idea

 

[RUfinal4]

This program needs an infusion of positive energy. A practice facility will help but recruiting comes down to do the kids trust that the current coach and program can get them to their personal goals. Currently we are being outrecruited by Seton Hall who does not have a true on campus facility for their league games.

We have also had bad luck with coaches:
- Kevin Bannon was let go after naked free throw shooting
- Gary Waters was let go because of going to a Hall of Fame ceremony while FHJ was on the bench - team was going in a good direction
- FHJ was ineffective
- Mike Rice created a controversy that led to a lot of transfer outs. He was going in the right direction until this episode
- Eddie Jordan has struggled in 2 seasons but has had a weaker team due to the transfer outs after Rice

Kids want to play for a winner and get to an NIT or NCAA tourney. They can choose Rutgers, Seton Hall, Penn St, Delaware, Rhode Island, Manhattan, and others within 2-4 hours of NJ. At the smaller schools the hoops players are the big men on campus. At Rutgers it is the football team.

 

[ruman]

Fred Hill had a controversy (Pitt baseball) and was ineffective too

This place needs a practice facility more than any program in America right now








This post was edited on 3/2 4:45 PM by ruman

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Originally posted by MGSA99:
I would love to have the students surround the court. Many of the 100 seats are vacant or being sold to opposing fans anyway. Kick the wine and cheese crowd out and give the most loyal RAC Packers those seats.

Who would sit in the 2nd row?

 

[rubaseball78]

Been waiting for #5 for more than 20 years.

 

[TheB1GTerp]

Originally posted by ruman:

Originally posted by MGSA99:
I would love to have the students surround the court. Many of the 100 seats are vacant or being sold to opposing fans anyway. Kick the wine and cheese crowd out and give the most loyal RAC Packers those seats.

Yea - with all those students packing the student section now, this is a great idea

You have the first 5-10 rows students, if they don't show up open the tickets up to the public.

The point is, you want the arena to be fun for the students. It's not like Wisconsin or Iowa where NO one is around and there are no NBA teams, or NBA teams worth watching. Students will carry the day.

There are no shortage of good football and basketball teams coming to Rutgers to play, the students need to pick up the slack. Giving them a cool place to play.

If I were to redesign the RAC, I would:

#1 change the outside Facade changing it from looking like a Bomb Shelter to maybe some like a Castle, go with the Knights theme big time.

#2 Re-do seating, students in front, so at least on TV it looks good.

#3 Re-do lockerooms,this is big for recruits. (Again a practice facility is just a luxury item, one Maryland doesn't even have)

#4 Fix Bathrooms and concession stands

#5 Sell alcohol

 

[JPhoboken]

Sorry, you are wrong, we do need a practice facility. We are competing against teams that have one, and we are a major disadvantage to not have one.

If we were a winning program and went to the NCAA's occasionally and recruiting was going very well, we could wait on this.

But we have an old RAC, and we are not getting a refurbished RAC or new arena anytime soon, so getting plans approved and getting the shovel in the ground for a practice facility is vital to give our program some kind of buzz which will help sell recruits.

The issue goes beyond just the practice facility. In order for us to build a program, the Leadership has to be committed to it. Since he has come aboard, our president has made it clear that his top priority for athletics is cut the the subsidy. He has made some vague statements that he supports athletics, but proof is in his actions not words. Even today, after public rebuke from State Senator Lesniak over his lack of commitment to men's basketball, we got the same old "we are commited" speech but we have financial hurdles to overcome. (who doesn't?)

Bottom line, if our president really cares about Rutgers men's basketball, has some pride, and realizes that leadership is key to getting this done, he will work with the state, and JH, corporate sponsors and donors, and get this done. We want to see plans soon and a commitment to get it done. We are all sick and tired of hearing about master plans, studies, etc. that take years and years. We have been waiting years and years. We need a practice facility now

 

[TheB1GTerp]

Originally posted by JPhoboken:
Sorry, you are wrong, we do need a practice facility. We are competing against teams that have one, and we are a major disadvantage to not have one.

If we were a winning program and went to the NCAA's occasionally and recruiting was going very well, we could wait on this.

But we have an old RAC, and we are not getting a refurbished RAC or new arena anytime soon, so getting plans approved and getting the shovel in the ground for a practice facility is vital to give our program some kind of buzz which will help sell recruits.

The issue goes beyond just the practice facility. In order for us to build a program, the Leadership has to be committed to it. Since he has come aboard, our president has made it clear that his top priority for athletics is cut the the subsidy. He has made some vague statements that he supports athletics, but proof is in his actions not words. Even today, after public rebuke from State Senator Lesniak over his lack of commitment to men's basketball, we got the same old "we are commited" speech but we have financial hurdles to overcome. (who doesn't?)

Bottom line, if our president really cares about Rutgers men's basketball, has some pride, and realizes that leadership is key to getting this done, he will work with the state, and JH, corporate sponsors and donors, and get this done. We want to see plans soon and a commitment to get it done. We are all sick and tired of hearing about master plans, studies, etc. that take years and years. We have been waiting years and years. We need a practice facility now

It is only my opinion, but I base it on empirical data and that schools build basketball programs.

Usually those school is either

#1 A football heavy school using excess money to build a basketball practice facility
#2 Is a basketball blue blood just adding luxury
#3 Has had a recent string of success in basketball and is capitalizing on new dollars.

I don't see Rutgers being ANY of these.

Now if you are talking some mixed use with all your non-revenue sports practice facility that may be something different and you can have Women's basketball, volleyball, baseball, basketball etc. all chip in with big donors to fund it.

However, if you are talking about what the big programs have, you are putting the cart before the horse.

Rutgers football is what I would feed first and then basketball, then everyone else. If you feel Football and its infrastructure are in place, then move to basketball, but my first course of action would be to make sure Eddie Jordan has well paid assistants and a recruiting budget. VCU got the right coach, got the students to support him, eased acadmic standards and won.

Otherwise you build a practice facility at the costs of what 15-25 million? This will result in landing you how many 4 star guys? If you think a kid is coming to a empty decaying arena that looks like a bomb shelter because the practice facility is cool you are mistaken.

When 10-15 million could be used to making sure your money maker in football doesn't regress int he Big Ten. Then use the money for advertising, coaching, fan out reach to get students in the game and in good seats. Those are you future donors. Penn State has ever facility you could want, but the fans need to be engaged. A stadium and practice facility wears off very quickly if the atmosphere is not good.

I know it's not sexy, but it is what will work.

 

[RUonBrain]

I agree with B1GTerp.

People here think a new practice facility (on Busch campus, for goodness sake!) is going to attract recruits.
I say bull.

Continue fixing up the RAC, make the locker rooms badass, and upgrade the coaching staff (whether that's the head guy, or assistants who can RECRUIT and COACH!).

You can do a lot for $30 million besides build half a practice facility.
Pay the assistant coaches $1 million per year - give a top notch ace recruiter $500K like the Fridge. If they still can't recruit anyone, move on to the next head coach.

If Maryland doesn't have a practice facility, and they've won a National Championship!, why do we?
This post was edited on 3/2 11:39 PM by RUonBrain

 

[Aggs]

Originally posted by RUonBrain:
I agree with B1GTerp.

People here think a new practice facility (on Busch campus, for goodness sake!) is going to attract recruits.
I say bull.

Continue fixing up the RAC, make the locker rooms badass, and upgrade the coaching staff (whether that's the head guy, or assistants who can RECRUIT and COACH!).

You can do a lot for $30 million besides build half a practice facility.
Pay the assistant coaches $1 million per year - give a top notch ace recruiter $500K like the Fridge. If they still can't recruit anyone, move on to the next head coach.

If Maryland doesn't have a practice facility, and they've won a National Championship!, why do we?
This post was edited on 3/2 11:39 PM by RUonBrain

....
This post was edited on 3/3 12:50 AM by Aggs

 

[NJ4life]

Hello.....They have Under Armour money...I'm sponsored by them so I know.

 

[Aggs]

Maryland won games before the "Facilities Era." They had tremendous success in the '80s and '90s, they had stability at head coach with back-to-back Hall of Famers (Right, Gary Williams will be in the HOF?). Maryland was in the ACC for decades and had top draft picks and legends like Len Bias.

What's easier to do - finding and hiring a Hall of Fame or HOF caliber coach at Rutgers, or borrowing money and nailing big-time donors to jumpstart a facility?

The facility, as Dave White writes, is a metaphor.

It provides hope.

Now everyone is building facilities - you can't undo this, and failing to do so at Rutgers is waving a white flag.

The Fridge hire was 13-14 years in the making - when Rutgers hired Greg Schiano to turn the football program around.




Fran Fraschilla is not a Hall of Famer by any strecth and even he asked for facility upgrades - and how long ago was that? 10 years now?


This post was edited on 3/3 12:52 AM by Aggs

 

[RUonBrain]

Aggs
I'm not a screaming liberal yelling don't spend the $.
I'm just a little skeptical how much it will really help us.
And since we don't have the $, I am afraid it will eventually get built on the cheap, at Busch (which is beyond absurd, even though it's being proposed to only make it more affordable and trying to pool resources from almost all sports), and if won't actually wow anybody. Then we spent $50-$80 million for a so-so facility full of compromises.

I'd love for RU to have a shiny new toy like many other schools, but I have doubts as expressed above.

 

[TheB1GTerp]

Look at who is building basketball practice facilities:

Usually those school is either

#1 A football heavy school using excess money to build a basketball practice facility
#2 Is a basketball blue blood just adding luxury
#3 Has had a recent string of success in basketball and is capitalizing on new dollars.



Rutger's isn't any of those. I am just saying if you are totally satisfied with Rutger's football operations go ahead and move to basketball.

If you are moving to basketball do not think that a practice facility just for basketball will do it.

I mean if you claim EVERYONE has one, which they don't, and you build one, then yours will be the worst amoungst the big time schools

You'll still not have better coaches, locker rooms, renovated RAC, etc.

 

[rutgersal]

Maryland has a brand new basketball arena, so they can do without a practice facility. It'll be a long time before we can contemplate a new arena. A number of our closest competitors all have practice facilities. They include:

- UConn
- Villanova
- Syracuse
- Georgetown
- Pittsburgh
- West Virginia

 

[bac2therac]

omg this title of the thread is flat out wrong...seriously how many people who are bball insiders do you have to hear before people give up arguing this ignorant point

 

[bingethinker]

Originally posted by NJ4life:

Hello.....They have Under Armour money...I'm sponsored by them so I know.

Kevin Plank is an alumnus and Maryland is a flagship UA school, but it's not like he or his company prints money for Maryland. The Terps have to pay for things just like Oregon has to pay for things. I won't pretend that having UA or Nike in your side isn't a plus, but neither company flat-out funds either schools athletic department.

Regarding this topic, I agree with B1GTerp. A practice facility alone (or a Athletic Village) won't uplift Rutgers Athletics. In fact, if I were in charge, I'd use any millions that would be earmarked for a practice gym to invest proportionally across a number of athletic programs. It's the winning that brings the recruits, not simply flashy facilities.

 

[Chuch Wilder]

Does Maryland Basketball share their arena with 14 other sports as a practice facility?

 

[bingethinker]

Originally posted by Chuch Wilder:
Does Maryland Basketball share their arena with 14 other sports as a practice facility?

Touché

 

[blockm2]

#1 get a coach with some track record of success at the NCAA level that has the desire to work on turning the program around. You probably have to snag somebody from a mid major.

#2 let them start winning games

#3 start hitting up donors for cash after you start winning games

#4 enjoy the success


Unless you have the right coach in place, the rest is irrelevant when trying to turn around a program.

 

[RUonBrain]

Originally posted by blockm2:
#1 get a coach with some track record of success at the NCAA level that has the desire to work on turning the program around. You probably have to snag somebody from a mid major.

#2 let them start winning games

#3 start hitting up donors for cash after you start winning games

#4 enjoy the success


Unless you have the right coach in place, the rest is irrelevant when trying to turn around a program.

Agree.

If you have a coach and staff who can't coach (NOT saying this is the case now, but if you think it is...), shiny new toys will do VERY little to help in the short term.

Yes, facility upgrades are probably needed sooner than later, but I think coaching staff, locker rooms, and sprucing up the RAC a higher priority.

Does anyone really think having a basketball practice facility on Busch makes ANY sense whatsoever?
That's like putting a cool new football facility for practice on Livingston. Makes ZERO sense.

Doing this is just doing something just for the hell of it. Sounds like progress in the short term, but long term, makes no sense.
Wonder what coaches and players think of that plan? I've heard Eddie is against it. Wonder why?
BECAUSE IT IS A DUMB PLAN!!!!


Just play along for a minute:
If you had a choice of a combined athlete's village on Busch in 5 years, or a basketball facility on Livingston in 3 years and an athlete's village on Busch in 10 years, which would you take?

What is the BEST LONG TERM FINAL SOLUTION for RU sports? Not, "What can we afford to do on the cheap in the shortest amount of time possible?"
This post was edited on 3/3 9:25 PM by RUonBrain

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Rutgers needs a real head coach and a staff much more than a facility. A facility at this stage is a luxury, a real coach is a necessity.

 

[bac2therac]

you need both

 

[TheB1GTerp]

Originally posted by Chuch Wilder:
Does Maryland Basketball share their arena with 14 other sports as a practice facility?

Maryland does share Xfinity with Wrestling, Gymnastics, Volleyball, Womens bball, men's bball,

So if this new facility is for ALL your varsity sports, then I get it. Northwestern is building a lakefront practice facility for everyone too. Rutgers athletics need help all the way around, so that's not a bad thing to help Rutgers be more competitive at all the non-revenue sports.

I just want to make this clear. That is NOT going to be a huge boost to Rutgers basketball. It just isn't going to be a big time change if you don't upgrade the RAC.

What practice in A+ facilites and play games in a D- facility?

Feed football first, then basketball...I keep hearing different things people say we need the practice facility, but it sounds you need it for EVERYONE, not basketball, so it's not going to be the huge benefit some thing it is.

 

[Knight_Light]

Originally posted by TheB1GTerp:

Originally posted by Chuch Wilder:
Does Maryland Basketball share their arena with 14 other sports as a practice facility?

Maryland does share Xfinity with Wrestling, Gymnastics, Volleyball, Womens bball, men's bball,

Maryland's Wrestling and Volleyball teams normally play in the 1,500 seat gym that is also located in the giant Xfinity Center:

This post was edited on 3/4 7:34 AM by Knight_Light

 

[willisneverrana43]

I'm sure that she could do better with upgraded facilities. But Stringer has a top 25 program with these facilities.

 

[bac2therac]

Oh I hadnt heard that rutgers is ready to hire a mens coach with over 900 wins

 

[willisneverrana43]

I think that misses the point, unless you're claiming that the only reason that Stringer wins here is because she arrived with many wins. Rather, the point is that a really good coach can win here. And RU hasn't hired one of those. It's not as if RU has been hiring guys who can't do it here and then go on to spectacular careers elsewhere. The closest has been Waters, but he's been just a good coach who had no idea how to recruit the NE. RU's been hiring the wrong guys.

Sure better facilities are needed. And sure the better the facilities, the better the opportunity to get a good coach. But RU can win with the right coach. And, just like with facilities, they'll have to spend to get him. But regardless we've been picking the wrong coaches for years.

 

[bac2therac]

Cvs was a proven coach...players come to play for her and not Rutgers so facilities do not matter...is rutgers going to pay $4 million for someone of cvs stature in mens hoops

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Originally posted by bac2therac:
Cvs was a proven coach...players come to play for her and not Rutgers so facilities do not matter...is rutgers going to pay $4 million for someone of cvs stature in mens hoops

Woman's basketball and men's basketball are apples to oranges........Are we better off with a $4,000,000 coach or a spanking new practice facility?

 

[willisneverrana43]

Originally posted by Greene Rice FIG:

Originally posted by bac2therac:
Cvs was a proven coach...players come to play for her and not Rutgers so facilities do not matter...is rutgers going to pay $4 million for someone of cvs stature in mens hoops

Woman's basketball and men's basketball are apples to oranges........Are we better off with a $4,000,000 coach or a spanking new practice facility?

You find me the spanking new facility that you can buy for $4mm and we can talk.

Otherwise, the view that the only way out of this hole is upgrading the facilities, something that is not going to happen soon and even if it were to start in the next few years wouldn't be completed until sometime after that, is a half blind one.

Sure, it'd be great if one state senator and the outrage of an ever dwindling fan group would force RU to quickly and effectively upgrade its facilities. But be prepared for that not to happen.

Instead, the $2.5-3.5 mm yearly option is viable in the short term. It's way, way, way cheaper than an upgraded facility plus a brand new practice facility. It also offers the opportunity to do some winning, which would increase the revenue through tickets and donations.

In short, this question misses the point: Are we better off with a $4,000,000 coach or a spanking new practice facility? It's not an either/or proposition. And so if reality continues to be reality, and upgrades and new facilities aren't coming any time soon, going the way, way cheaper option might be the best first step.