Best 3 PT shooting team under Pike

[PSAL_Hoops]

After last night we’re 33.7% from 3 on the season.

We were 33.6% from 3 in 21-22 and far off that mark in all other seasons under Pike. Best FT shooting team too.

Careful what you wish for as top priority is the moral of the story here, I guess. We got better shooting at the expense of much worse defense. The result is a 14-14 record. Hopefully some lessons learned as we look ahead and plan for next season.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

None of this has to do with 3 point shooting at the expense of defense. All it means is our perimeter defense from the guards and wings are just not as efficient. The shooting aspect has NO impact on this whatsoever. We just need more complete guards who can do both score and defend.

What does impact a 14-14 record is Dylan Harper essential missing 5 B1G games and not integrating Dylan Grant and Bryce Dortch into the defensive rotations and playing time, until it was way too late. With reasonable defense on a couple of possessions vs Kennesaw State and Princeton and Dylan Harper at close to 100% for the 2nd half of Penn State, we would be 17-11 and having different discussions altogether. That has nothing to do with 3 point shooting.

The B1G and CBB is more consolidated than ever and the bigger conference have sped up the filtering process of who's real and where the thin margins are between rosters across the SEC, B1G and Big 12. Looking at the standings and not knowing injury situations across those 3 conferences can make the difficult between knowing who's capable in March and who isn't.

I am hopeful the B1G, SEC and Big 12 consolidate absorb pieces of the ACC and we get to a real level competition in both sports. This whole nonsense of rewarding schools like Gonzaga for starting out in the Preseason Top 10 or 15 and holding a #10 NET ranking in late February, while looking at their schedule and wins is ridiculous.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

None of this has to do with 3 point shooting at the expense of defense. All it means is our perimeter defense from the guards and wings are just not as efficient. The shooting aspect has NO impact on this whatsoever. We just need more complete guards who can do both score and defend.

What does impact a 14-14 record is Dylan Harper essential missing 5 B1G games and not integrating Dylan Grant and Bryce Dortch into the defensive rotations and playing time, until it was way too late. With reasonable defense on a couple of possessions vs Kennesaw State and Princeton and Dylan Harper at close to 100% for the 2nd half of Penn State, we would be 17-11 and having different discussions altogether. That has nothing to do with 3 point shooting.

The B1G and CBB is more consolidated than ever and the bigger conference have sped up the filtering process of who's real and where the thin margins are between rosters across the SEC, B1G and Big 12. Looking at the standings and not knowing injury situations across those 3 conferences can make the difficult between knowing who's capable in March and who isn't.

I am hopeful the B1G, SEC and Big 12 consolidate absorb pieces of the ACC and we get to a real level competition in both sports. This whole nonsense of rewarding schools like Gonzaga for starting out in the Preseason Top 10 or 15 and holding a #10 NET ranking in late February, while looking at their schedule and wins is ridiculous.

Dude - our defense stinks in all facets. We’re a poor rebounding team, poor at closing out on the perimeter, and historically bad at preventing points in the paint. Please stop.

Our best defensive game of the season was probably the Michigan game that Dylan didn’t play in. Ken Pom’s ranking of our D at 114 is, if anything, generous.

 

[LotusAggressor]

After last night we’re 33.7% from 3 on the season.

We were 33.6% from 3 in 21-22 and far off that mark in all other seasons under Pike. Best FT shooting team too.

Careful what you wish for as top priority is the moral of the story here, I guess. We got better shooting at the expense of much worse defense. The result is a 14-14 record. Hopefully some lessons learned as we look ahead and plan for next season.

Good teams shoot well AND play defense.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Good teams shoot well AND play defense.

Every team has strengths and weaknesses and it’s not realistic to assume we’re going to have the resources to recruit a collection of guys who excel at everything.

The bottom line is we recruited a collection of transfers with poor individual defensive efficiency profiles. When you pair that with a collection of frosh the outcome is likely to be a poor defensive team overall.

There’s a lot of debate about flaws in the defense efficiency metric from individual players, but pretty much all of the criticisms point to situations where a kid with good looking numbers doesn’t end up producing as well as hoped on D. That happens sometimes, sure, but other times it works out for us.

The opposite is rare with transfers and Pike is batting zero so he should stop trying. In simple terms - history says that RU transfers who come in with bad def efficiency stats under Pike don’t help us win.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I fully reject the concept that playing good D doesn't impact shooting. If you work harder on D you will be more fatigued and shoot it worse.

HOWEVER......the benefits on the defensive end should FAR outweigh the loss of 2% or so on 3 pt fg% shooting

Also reducing minutes can get back some of that lost shooting.

Ace and Dylan's 3 pt shooting % is benefiting by them not giving their all on the defensive end. They had a combined 2 defensive rebounds last night. They aren't expending enough energy on the defensive end. They aren't alone obviously.

 

[seansherm]

I fully reject the concept that playing good D doesn't impact shooting. If you work harder on D you will be more fatigued and shoot it worse.

HOWEVER......the benefits on the defensive end should FAR outweigh the loss of 2% or so on 3 pt fg% shooting

Also reducing minutes can get back some of that lost shooting.

Ace and Dylan's 3 pt shooting % is benefiting by them not giving their all on the defensive end. They had a combined 2 defensive rebounds last night. They aren't expending enough energy on the defensive end. They aren't alone obviously.

We only had one guy with more than 3 rebounds last night, it's affecting everyone!

Oddly enough, anyone who has ever played with me has noticed I shoot better when tired.

 

[goru7]

Dude - our defense stinks in all facets. We’re a poor rebounding team, poor at closing out on the perimeter, and historically bad at preventing points in the paint. Please stop.

Our best defensive game of the season was probably the Michigan game that Dylan didn’t play in. Ken Pom’s ranking of our D at 114 is, if anything, generous.

Yes our defense is bad but that is because our guards mostly JMike and Jordan and much lesser extent Jeremiah have not kept their guy in front of them causing defensive chaos. Not having a rim protector to clean it up has led to layup after layup in the paint.
But Hawk’s point that the improved 3 point shooting , still not great for the team , has little to do with sacrificing defense. We need better 2,way players that can score, shoot and defend , like keep their guy in front of them.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes our defense is bad but that is because our guards mostly JMike and Jordan and much lesser extent Jeremiah have not kept their guy in front of them causing defensive chaos. Not having a rim protector to clean it up has led to layup after layup in the paint.
But Hawk’s point that the improved 3 point shooting , still not great for the team , has little to do with sacrificing defense. We need better 2,way players that can score, shoot and defend , like keep their guy in front of them.

No - go back and re-watch past seasons if you think that our guards of past seasons didn’t allow penetration past the first line of defense. There’s actually nothing wrong with our perimeter on ball D. For the most part, it is similar to what it was last year. We had Davis, Jeremiah, etc. Derek wasn’t materially better than those guys or Dylan and our D ranked 6th nationally. The difference was we had Cliff, Mag, and a finally servicable Hyatt (after 3 seasons of development) there on help to alter shots. In prior years, Paul was weaker on the perimeter, but again we had Cliff, Caleb and Mag. Now we don’t. We have frosh.

 

[seansherm]

No - go back and re-watch past seasons if you think that our guards of past seasons didn’t allow penetration past the first line of defense. There’s actually nothing wrong with our perimeter D. For the most part, it is similar to what it was last year. We had Davis, Jeremiah, etc. Derek wasn’t materially better than those guys or Dylan and our D ranked 6th nationally. The difference was we had Cliff, Mag, and a finally servicable Hyatt (after 3 seasons of development) there on help to alter shots. In prior years, Paul was weaker on the perimeter, but again we had Cliff, Caleb and Mag. Now we don’t. We have frosh.

I've tried explaining this. There is no back up help for the guys on the perimeter. Even Paul was an excellent help defender.

 

[Mholinko]

I fully reject the concept that playing good D doesn't impact shooting. If you work harder on D you will be more fatigued and shoot it worse.

HOWEVER......the benefits on the defensive end should FAR outweigh the loss of 2% or so on 3 pt fg% shooting

Also reducing minutes can get back some of that lost shooting.

Ace and Dylan's 3 pt shooting % is benefiting by them not giving their all on the defensive end. They had a combined 2 defensive rebounds last night. They aren't expending enough energy on the defensive end. They aren't alone obviously.

The national championship team the last 23 years going back to 2002 have been kenpom top 40 in offense and defensive efficiency

The good teams and true contenders are good at both

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The national championship team the last 23 years going back to 2002 have been kenpom top 40 in offense and defensive efficiency

The good teams and true contenders are good at both

correct

 

[Jerseylegends]

After last night we’re 33.7% from 3 on the season.

We were 33.6% from 3 in 21-22 and far off that mark in all other seasons under Pike. Best FT shooting team too.

Careful what you wish for as top priority is the moral of the story here, I guess. We got better shooting at the expense of much worse defense. The result is a 14-14 record. Hopefully some lessons learned as we look ahead and plan for next season.

Yes, people wanted better offensive players, but most also wanted a veteran big to rebound/protect the paint and a veteran guard to go along with these new players. Why does it have to be either or? People just want a legit team that can be near the top of the big ten standings. But it'll be fun to see these guys play with their backs against the wall these last couple of games.

 

[Plum Street]

None of this has to do with 3 point shooting at the expense of defense. All it means is our perimeter defense from the guards and wings are just not as efficient. The shooting aspect has NO impact on this whatsoever. We just need more complete guards who can do both score and defend.

What does impact a 14-14 record is Dylan Harper essential missing 5 B1G games and not integrating Dylan Grant and Bryce Dortch into the defensive rotations and playing time, until it was way too late. With reasonable defense on a couple of possessions vs Kennesaw State and Princeton and Dylan Harper at close to 100% for the 2nd half of Penn State, we would be 17-11 and having different discussions altogether. That has nothing to do with 3 point shooting.

The B1G and CBB is more consolidated than ever and the bigger conference have sped up the filtering process of who's real and where the thin margins are between rosters across the SEC, B1G and Big 12. Looking at the standings and not knowing injury situations across those 3 conferences can make the difficult between knowing who's capable in March and who isn't.

I am hopeful the B1G, SEC and Big 12 consolidate absorb pieces of the ACC and we get to a real level competition in both sports. This whole nonsense of rewarding schools like Gonzaga for starting out in the Preseason Top 10 or 15 and holding a #10 NET ranking in late February, while looking at their schedule and wins is ridiculous.

Yikes!! Every post you make is a short story. You could have ended your post in 2 sentences!
You are correct

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yikes!! Every post you make is a short story. You could have ended your post in 2 sentences!
You are correct

No - he’s not. I was not suggesting what Green said in the OP. That wasn’t the point.

Rather, it was simply that we can’t afford to buy everything in the transfer portal. Al is wrong about a lot - but he’s likely correct about that. We have to prioritize and Pike chose to focus on improving perimeter shooting. That almost certainly came at the expense of funds that could’ve been used to recruit better rebounders / defenders in the portal. And even if no money was involved - there was a schollie limit. We chose who we chose which was players with good shooting stats but poor defensive metrics (not necessarily related to one another but factually what we chose to bring in for the cycle).

 

[RUJMM78]

No - he’s not. I was not suggesting what Green said in the OP. That wasn’t the point.

Rather, it was simply that we can’t afford to buy everything in the transfer portal. Al is wrong about a lot - but he’s likely correct about that. We have to prioritize and Pike chose to focus on improving perimeter shooting. That almost certainly came at the expense of funds that could’ve been used to recruit better rebounders / defenders in the portal.

What is the priority for the transfer portal this year with Acuff,Hayes and Martini leaving along with Bailey and Harper?That is a loss of at least 45 points a game.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

i hear you...doesnt mean the 2 players work out. I have heard people saying we should have gotten Alloco. Now I don't watch Notre Dame other than the game against us.......but our concerns are defense? Is he a fit?

Andre Hyatt? did he move the needele forward.

What i got wrong was going in to the season i thought we had a bunch of new transfers were coming in I thought a few had to hit. WRONG. 2 good ones obviously means a significantly improved hit rate, but only 2 tickets.

Again, not disagreeing with you

I think he plays D. Princeton played D. Not being defensive minded isn’t really the issue with Martini. There simply isn’t a position where he can be effective at the high major level.

What is the priority for the transfer portal this year with Acuff,Hayes and Martini leaving along with Bailey and Harper?That is a loss of at least 45 points a game.

Kids like sophomores Geo, Ron, Caleb etc - solid defensive metrics, able to put the ball through the net at the high major level but probably not the most offensively efficient scores available. And, at all costs, a 5 who plays defense.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes, people wanted better offensive players, but most also wanted a veteran big to rebound/protect the paint and a veteran guard to go along with these new players. Why does it have to be either or? People just want a legit team that can be near the top of the big ten standings. But it'll be fun to see these guys play with their backs against the wall these last couple of games.

Because we were going to be relying on frosh to carry us. We needed to surround them with defense. And yes, we also desperately needed a veteran Big and didn’t go out and get one.

 

[goru7]

No - go back and re-watch past seasons if you think that our guards of past seasons didn’t allow penetration past the first line of defense. There’s actually nothing wrong with our perimeter on ball D. For the most part, it is similar to what it was last year. We had Davis, Jeremiah, etc. Derek wasn’t materially better than those guys or Dylan and our D ranked 6th nationally. The difference was we had Cliff, Mag, and a finally servicable Hyatt (after 3 seasons of development) there on help to alter shots. In prior years, Paul was weaker on the perimeter, but again we had Cliff, Caleb and Mag. Now we don’t. We have frosh.

You are crazy if you think our perimeter ball defense is good and even more crazy if you think our Geo , Caleb , Montes, Jacob Young and Paul ‘s defense was as bad as our present crew. They might have allowed an occasional penetration but nothing like this every trip down the court stuff we are seeing this year.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You are crazy if you think our perimeter ball defense is good and even more crazy if you think our Geo , Caleb , Montes, Jacob Young and Paul ‘s defense was as bad as our present crew. They might have allowed an occasional penetration but nothing like this every trip down the court stuff we are seeing this year.

Huh? I said we should recruit kids like Geo and Caleb. I made no other comment about them.

The point I was making was that Davis and J Will played material minutes on last year’s team that ranked 6th nationally in defense. The difference was they were surrounded by guys like Cliff and Mag. Yes, we gave up open 3s last year too. The difference was we didn’t give up points in the paint like water on penetration. That’s the part of our D that is rate limiting. That and the offensive boards we give up for put backs.

Actually - if we just gave up a lot of open 3s on the perimeter and did all the other stuff well on D we’d be way better because even wide open, most teams won’t hit 50% of their 3s. It’s still not an automatic shot and there will be days even the best teams are off. We allow teams to attempt bunny shots that nobody misses in the paint. Over and over.