Big 10 2016 recruiting by state -- where is PA??
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"Leaving Indiana and its split allegiances out of things, here are the total number of recruits from Big Ten East states vs. Big Ten West ones. East (New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Maryland): 116. West: (Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota): 55. Even if you were to split Indiana's 10 signees evenly between the division, you can see the East has a massive advantage in the available local talent."
Interesting... I wonder if this might be something else mentioned down the road if realigning the divisions is brought up.
Interesting... I wonder if this might be something else mentioned down the road if realigning the divisions is brought up.
Penn State signed only four players from Pennsylvania in the Class of 2016, including the state's two best in Miles Sanders (No. 1 RB in the nation) and Michal Menet (a 5-star OL). Connor McGovern gave PSU three of the state's top-7 players. In comparison, Pitt signed one top-10 player in Damar Hamlin, and Temple also got one, Karamo Dioubate.
PSU, of course, wanted those two badly, but playing closer to home was important to those kids. Losing Cary Angeline and Andrew Pryts to West Coast schools hurt, especially in Pryts' case, and our staff sort of dropped the ball with Khaleke Hudson, who wanted to commit earlier in the cycle but was told to wait.
Hudson (No. 10, Michigan); Rob Simmons (No. 14, Purdue); Rashawn Battle (No. 25, Rutgers); and Tymir Oliver (No. 28, Illinois) are the Pennsylvania kids that signed with B1G schools other than PSU.
Pitt fans will make a huge deal out of flipping Aaron Mathews, the state's 12th-ranked player, according to 247, but the reality is PSU would only take him as a defensive player while Pitt apparently told him he can play WR. The kid is slow - as Pitt fans were eager to point out when he committed to PSU initially - and I'd be surprised if he sticks on offense. But Narduzzi looks good on paper, because he "beat" Franklin.
tl;dr Was PSU's in-state recruiting a little disappointing in the '16 cycle? Yes. It was a far cry from how it dominated the state in 2015. But it was more because of individual issues in each kid's recruitment than anything Pitt or Temple did.
PSU, of course, wanted those two badly, but playing closer to home was important to those kids. Losing Cary Angeline and Andrew Pryts to West Coast schools hurt, especially in Pryts' case, and our staff sort of dropped the ball with Khaleke Hudson, who wanted to commit earlier in the cycle but was told to wait.
Hudson (No. 10, Michigan); Rob Simmons (No. 14, Purdue); Rashawn Battle (No. 25, Rutgers); and Tymir Oliver (No. 28, Illinois) are the Pennsylvania kids that signed with B1G schools other than PSU.
Pitt fans will make a huge deal out of flipping Aaron Mathews, the state's 12th-ranked player, according to 247, but the reality is PSU would only take him as a defensive player while Pitt apparently told him he can play WR. The kid is slow - as Pitt fans were eager to point out when he committed to PSU initially - and I'd be surprised if he sticks on offense. But Narduzzi looks good on paper, because he "beat" Franklin.
tl;dr Was PSU's in-state recruiting a little disappointing in the '16 cycle? Yes. It was a far cry from how it dominated the state in 2015. But it was more because of individual issues in each kid's recruitment than anything Pitt or Temple did.
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The disparity in recruiting between the B1G East and B1G West is huge.
Using 247's rankings, East schools signed 53 combined 4- and 5-star recruits. West schools signed nine.
Vegas
Pitt actually got 2 Top 10 players from PA.
Damar Hamlin Rivals 4-Star (Ranked 4 in PA).
Kaezon Pugh Rivals 4-star (Ranked 7 in PA)
Therran Coleman Rivals 3-star (Ranked 11 in PA) although not top 10 was a good pick up with other Top 20 Pa recruits.
Pitt also did well in traditional B1G recruiting territory (Narduzzi effect)
George Hill Rivals 4-Star (Ranked 8 in OHIO)
Ruben Flowers Rivals 4-Star (Ranked 10 in OHIO)
Amir Watts Rivals 4-Star (Ranked 7 in Illinois)
Justin Morgan Rivals 3-Star (Ranked 5 in NY).
Elias Reynolds Rivals 3-Star (Ranked 7 in NY)
It was also nice to see Narduzzi pick up 4 recruits (one former Michigan commit and one former USC commit) this year from Florida (PSU had none) and from other points South (Narduzzi expanding Pitt recruiting territory).
Pitt overall did well in Narduzzi's 2nd year recruiting with a final Rivals Ranking of 30 which was a great improvement from his first(transition year) ranking of 65.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Pitt actually got 2 Top 10 players from PA.
Damar Hamlin Rivals 4-Star (Ranked 4 in PA).
Kaezon Pugh Rivals 4-star (Ranked 7 in PA)
Therran Coleman Rivals 3-star (Ranked 11 in PA) although not top 10 was a good pick up with other Top 20 Pa recruits.
Pitt also did well in traditional B1G recruiting territory (Narduzzi effect)
George Hill Rivals 4-Star (Ranked 8 in OHIO)
Ruben Flowers Rivals 4-Star (Ranked 10 in OHIO)
Amir Watts Rivals 4-Star (Ranked 7 in Illinois)
Justin Morgan Rivals 3-Star (Ranked 5 in NY).
Elias Reynolds Rivals 3-Star (Ranked 7 in NY)
It was also nice to see Narduzzi pick up 4 recruits (one former Michigan commit and one former USC commit) this year from Florida (PSU had none) and from other points South (Narduzzi expanding Pitt recruiting territory).
Pitt overall did well in Narduzzi's 2nd year recruiting with a final Rivals Ranking of 30 which was a great improvement from his first(transition year) ranking of 65.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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Why does ScarletNation become a home for pi$$ing matches between PSU and Pitt (and Temple sort of)?
ScarletNation is kind of like Switzerland. They can't discuss this stuff on their own boards without war breaking out so they come here.
I was using the 247 rankings, where Pugh is ranked 13th.
Regardless, my point wasn't to disparage Pitt's recruiting class. I was simply pointing out that Penn State's efforts in PA weren't a little down in 2016 because of Pitt or Temple, but rather individual sets of circumstances surrounding individual kids. Further, I think we'd agree that Pennsylvania's Class of 2016 wasn't super deep to begin with.
Ultimately, I'm concerned with two things: keeping elite talent in-state, which Franklin has done well at thus far, and recruiting talented players regardless of where they were born, grew up, or attended high school.
No Problem
To be honest, no one will actually know how good of a recruiting class each respective school got until the next 2 to 4 years.
I'm discounting 2015 (Narduzzi transition year) when comparing Pitt and Penn State recruiting comparisons.
This year was close Penn State (Rivals Team Ranking 22) and Pitt (Rivals Team Ranking 30).
Next year is going to be really interesting.
Pennsylvania Top 20 2017 recruiting class already has 2 committed to Pitt.
Paris Ford Rivals 4-Star (Ranked 3 in PA)
Exree Loe Rivals 3-Star (Ranked 12 in PA).
Although NLI day is a long way off and can't count your chickens.
My (tongue in check) response to the OP in that PA recruits are going to Pitt is semi correct in that Pitt recruited 7 of the Top 21 PA recruits.
Ranking numbers listed are based upon Rivals.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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The talent pool in PA is actually pretty deep in the 2017 recruiting class and that doesn't count a few top rated kids who are now down at IMG academy in Florida playing their senior years. RU would do well heavily recruiting PA this cycle...I'm sure Ash being at OSU already has some of those relationships developed
It's more of a matter of a huge disparity between Ohio State and Michigan and everybody else as 33 of the 4- and 5-star recruits you mention for the East are those two schools.
Or OSU, UM, PSU and MSU compared with everyone else, as those four schools accounted for 50 of 53. You can spin things anyway you'd like. The bottom line is the B1G East is far ahead of the West, and that trend appears likely to continue.
Player Development can be almost as important as recruiting.
Consider a Team from the B1G West who epitomizes the above statement.
IOWA
This year Iowa recruited no 4 or 5 Star recruits. Their Rivals ranking this year was #42 (2.88 Star Avg).
Iowa has become a program based on player development. In doing so it has become one of the NFL feeder programs.
For example, a 2-Star recruit player has a 1 in 34 chance of being drafted into the NFL. At Iowa a 2-Star player has a 1 in 6 chance. At Iowa a 3-star prospect is 3 times more likely to get drafted in the NFL than most other programs.
Iowa fans complain about their head coach but he does a fantastic job considering their recruiting ability in the B1G West.
Good game day coach is also as important as recruiting and player development (topic for another discussion).
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
Consider a Team from the B1G West who epitomizes the above statement.
IOWA
This year Iowa recruited no 4 or 5 Star recruits. Their Rivals ranking this year was #42 (2.88 Star Avg).
Iowa has become a program based on player development. In doing so it has become one of the NFL feeder programs.
For example, a 2-Star recruit player has a 1 in 34 chance of being drafted into the NFL. At Iowa a 2-Star player has a 1 in 6 chance. At Iowa a 3-star prospect is 3 times more likely to get drafted in the NFL than most other programs.
Iowa fans complain about their head coach but he does a fantastic job considering their recruiting ability in the B1G West.
Good game day coach is also as important as recruiting and player development (topic for another discussion).
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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The Pennsylvania 2017 (Top 20) recruiting prospects include (1) Rivals 5-Star and (8) Rivals 4-Star players.
The other 11 Rivals 3-Star players are also talented and some of those may earn another star before the year is out.
What is interesting is that 6 of the PA top 10 recruits are from the Pittsburgh area and 2 are from Philadelphia, 1 from Wilkes Barre and 1 from Warminster.
I see Maryland (Greg Studrara) is already seriously recruiting many of these players.
Pennsylvania is no longer good for recruiting so there is no need for Rutgers (Ash) to recruit here.:sunglasses:
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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And you can spin it that the Eastern Division is a powerhouse, but it's really Ohio State and Michigan, Michigan State on a somewhat lower recruiting plane, and the rest. I'll need to see some results from Franklin at Penn State before I crown them the king of anything. Right now, he's 1-3 against Illinois and Northwestern the last two years. And Indiana, Maryland and, unfortunately, you guys have a long way to go. The top of the East probably will be better since they decided to put all the league's 100,000-seat stadiums in the same division. They probably should have stuck Michigan State in the West and Purdue in the East. Michigan State actually liked being in the western division before as Dantonio liked to play Northwestern to get visibility in the Chicago area.
I only made a point that the B1G East is recruiting on an entirely different level than the West. That is an undeniable fact. And as scores of data have proven out over time, that likely means the East will be much better than the West going forward on the field as well.
How do you know you're any better than the class that they ranked #25? Once you get past the top few classes, it's a crapshoot. Get it done on the field and people will be impressed.
PART of the East is on a different level. Rutgers, Maryland and Indiana certainly aren't on a different level, and I don't anticipate them being there for a while. Plus they run the risk of being doormats for the powerhouses above them for a number of years. Maryland does have some potential with the Under Armour money behind them. Rutgers and especially Indiana will really have to beat the bushes. Right now, it's less a matter of a super division and a weak division than the fact that 3-4 teams are recruiting better than the other 10-11, and two of them are recruiting far above anyone else in the league. I'm worried we could be headed back to an era like the "Big 2, Little 8" of the old Big Ten which wasn't so great for the league as a whole.
Iowa is good once every 6-8 years, the big 10 west was ridiculously weak this year. It's all good. Looking forward to September
Iowa is 9-7 against Penn State since Penn State joined the B1G. You're 1-3 against the B1G West the past two years. Iowa barely lost to Michigan State, which destroyed Penn State this year, in the conference title game.
No doubt about it Rutgers is in the tough B1G East Division. With the B1G beginning to play 9 Conference games, they will not be able to pad a schedule with easier OOC games.
However, Rutgers is located in a good recruiting and that will be key for them.
I think ASH will have to win (6-6) this year to show the recruits that he capable of performing well in this division.
I know Ash and his staff are very young so you can't draw any conclusions (game day coaching ability and player development) at this time.
Ash did not recruit well this year Rivals 79, but I am not concluding anything from that (Narduzzi/Pitt Rivals 65 first year).
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
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You're not going to want to hear this, as your anti-PSU stance has been well-publicized in this thread, but it's the truth: Penn State has been playing with a roster limited in both numbers and talent for the past few seasons, has been rebuilding itself after some of the worst sanctions in history, and has been doing so in the midst of near-constant staff changes. I'm not concerned that we went 7-6 the past couple of seasons. Call me if that's still the case two years from now.
If you'd like to call those "excuses," that's your right. But those are the facts. A story written recently highlighted the fact that two of our new hires were unable to recruit on their own, and had to be accompanied on visits by another staff member, because they had yet to pass a series of background checks implemented in the fallout of the Sandusky scandal. Working with seven coaches instead of nine on the recruiting trail in the final days of the cycle is less than ideal. Throw in the infighting that still exists and the faction of the fan base that doesn't want to settle for anything less than a head coach with ties to Paterno, and you have some real challenges here. But I still believe the future remains bright.
The past few seasons were always going to be difficult as the program built itself back up. In fact, rather than view the 7-6 records as a negative, it's actually downright remarkable that we didn't have a losing record in the midst of the sanctions. Now it's time to start making progress. This is in effect the first year of James Franklin's tenure: The 2016 team will have fewer than 20 players recruited by Bill O'Brien and none from the Paterno era. It's starting to be Franklin's team. And it's a team that will be filled with many more talented recruits than we've seen at PSU in some time.
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Actually, my brother and nephew are Penn State alums, I live in Pennsylvania, and I'm not anti-Penn State's athletic teams at all. So much for your assumptions.
It would be hard not to be aware of all the stuff surrounding Penn State the last few seasons, but I was replying to a poster who was arrogantly asserting how "weak" the western division was this week when Penn State probably would have finished no better than fourth in the west this year (same as they did in the east). Also his ridiculous statement about an Iowa team that more than held its own against Penn State in league play before sanctions were in place. With a 100,000-seat stadium, a large fan base and tons of money, Penn State should do well and I would expect they will be improved with a full complement of players. On the other hand, while they were one of the better teams in the league before the sanctions they were hardly dominant. They've won three outright or co-championships in football since joining the league compared to 10 for Ohio State, six for Wisconsin and five for Michigan. In that same period, Michigan State and Northwestern have won three and the despised Hawkeyes two.
I'll be rooting for Penn State to get better and strengthen the overall balance of the league, but won't accept arrogant fans talking down about other schools until they actually perform on the field. Arrogance is something that has to be earned.
Did I once say that pen state is good every year? Not at all. Although I will say that based on recruiting and rebuilding the team post sanctions (u can argue that all you want but it's a fact that the sanctions will effect us until at least 2017). I like PSU better than any team in the big 10 moving forward besides mich and osu. Mich St has a sexy name right now but next year they'll be a 8-4/7-5 team
Fair enough. Penn State's time in the Big Ten has included the worst stretch in the program's on-field history in the early 2000s, was in ways severely handicapped by Joe Paterno in his later years, and then obviously has had to deal with the fallout from the Sandusky scandal. Regardless, you're correct that PSU has not been dominant since joining the Big Ten. Ohio State, Wisconsin and Michigan (barely) all have better records than PSU since we joined the league. You pointed out some of our built-in advantages, and I remain hopeful that we'll be adding to that win total, and eventually the trophy case, in the coming years.
As far as Iowa, I have to side with the poster who called them mediocre. They've averaged 7.8 wins over the past decade and also didn't really beat anyone of note last season. Pointing to a team like that to hold up the "stars are overrated" argument is misguided; those teams are outliers, not evidence that player development somehow trumps recruiting the most talented players.
Can you guys take this to the Pitt Lair? The pissing contest can be settled when PSU plays Pitt in September, until then who cares...
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