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Camden law professor's editorial in the Inqy

justinslot

Junior
Nov 14, 2009
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Not particularly interesting anti-football arguments (blaming the emphasis on football on Barchi? As if he could give a rat's patooie) but one paragraph might find favor with posters here:


"The Camden and Newark law schools, which
ought to be flagships of the university, rank 81 and 83 respectively,
the result not of any failure by their faculty and students, but of a
consistently low level of university support and the refusal to provide a
meaningful foothold on the New Brunswick campus. Other units have
broadly similar records."


UGH FOOTBALL IS THE WORST
 
Originally posted by Upstream:
Is this written by CamdenLawProf who posts here, or is this just some other professor at Camden?
I would hope not.

If that opinion is meant to be only polemic in nature...I guess its not too bad. But from an objective view of "facts" it is horrible, and I would be embarrassed that an actual University Professor wrote it (a student writing such an argument for a class paper would, likely, get an F). Examples:

"The problems start with the name itself. The Big Ten is no longer the Big Ten but the Big Fourteen, including schools like Nebraska, Maryland, and Penn State. When the latter joined 20 years ago, it was supposed to be the first step toward academic improvement and a national reputation. I don't have to tell you what happened there."

Is he trying to lay the Sandusky scandal at the heart of the Big Ten?

FWIW, everything I have seen shows the PSU's academics and national repution did improve tremendously since joining the Big Ten.

"A more immediate question is the cost of admission. Rutgers' football coach, Kyle Flood, has a base salary of $950,000 and was guaranteed $1.9 million for assistant coaches. (The team lost its first conference game.) That's nearly $3 million from a university that has refused to pay previously negotiated raises to faculty and regularly taken an aggressive, hostile tone in contract negotiations. This is in addition to a $650,000 salary paid to the university's president, Robert Barchi, and extravagant compensation to "chancellors" of the Newark and Camden campuses, positions that did not even exist a few years ago. By contrast, the governor of New Jersey is paid $175,000, and state legislators $49,000."

So he is comparing what Rutgers pays its football coaches to what politicians in NJ make? Is this even remotely relevant? Is he trying to say that Rutgers should base its coaches pay on what NJ State legislators make? Seriously?

"If Rutgers' performance matched this compensation, it might be understandable. Sadly, the university remains, in Gov. Christie's words, "a good university but not a great one." In the US News survey of American universities, Rutgers ranks 70th, 20 points behind Yeshiva University, which doesn't have a football team, and 69 points behind Princeton, which deemphasized the sport 60 years ago and pays its head coach about a quarter of Flood's annual salary."

So, is there someone out there that claimed joining the Big Ten would vault Rutgers ahead of Princeton (or Yeshiva)? Would this be a nearly flawless example of a straw man argument?

"The statistics are compounded by the low morale of Rutgers faculty and employees, a problem that results directly from the lack of resources. When I told a Rutgers official that my son was weighing Rutgers against Private University X, she said without hesitation: "I'd go to X." The tour guide for my other son - a person whose job is to sell the university - said he attended Rutgers because he got in-state tuition and the weather was good when he visited. Both of my children went elsewhere."

I am not even sure what he is trying to say here. Does he think every Rutgers official should only be recommending Rutgers? Does he assume every official at every other school only recommends their school? The tour guide comment is a weird non sequitur. Is he trying to say access to in-state tuition and good weather should not be considerations when choosing a university to attend? FWIW, access to in-state tuition is almost solely responsible for me attending Rutgers.
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"Barchi's defenders argue that his sports strategy will provide new revenues, which will benefit the university as a whole. In fact, the opposite is happening. A US News report found that more than 40 percent of the athletic program is being subsidized by the university, an extraordinary number even by the standards of large schools. This is at the same time that salaries were frozen and tuition and fees increased significantly."

Zoinks, this is horrible. Barchi's strategy is to fix the very problem this writer has an issue with, yet cites the problem (which existing before Rutgers ever knew it would get invited to the Big Ten) as a reason Rutgers should not be joining the Big Ten? Is this guy serious? It reads like trolling from a Villanova fan (maybe that is "Private School X").

"In fairness, Rutgers' problems are not entirely unique. We live in a culture that values entertainment over substance, the principal reason that we are declining in comparison with other countries. But universities exist to counteract this phenomenon, promoting knowledge and culture and providing an example for the rest of society. Unfortunately Rutgers, in the Barchi/Flood era, has decided to provide precisely the wrong example, for New Jersey and its young people. It's time for a change."

He hasn't provided any evidence of his premise (that we live in a culture that values entertainment over substance), he doesn't explain what he means by "substance" anyway. But since when do Universities exist to counteract the valuing of entertainment over substance? Who decided that this is the reason universities exist? That doesn't even make sense. Universities have been around for centuries. Assuming I accept his premise (which I don't) that would mean that this supposed valuing of entertainment over substance has also been around for centuries. And considering the tremendous rate of advancement of the human culture, then exactly why is it a problem then?

If I was a student or colleague of this guy I would be embarrassed.
 
Originally posted by Upstream:
Is this written by CamdenLawProf who posts here, or is this just some other professor at Camden?
I tend to doubt our clp is writing anti-football editorials.
 
Originally posted by Upstream:
Is this written by CamdenLawProf who posts here, or is this just some other professor at Camden?
I am not the author. The author is a law school colleague of mine who likes to challenge conventional wisdom. Sometimes he hits, sometimes he misses.
 
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
Originally posted by Upstream:
Is this written by CamdenLawProf who posts here, or is this just some other professor at Camden?
I am not the author. The author is a law school colleague of mine who likes to challenge conventional wisdom. Sometimes he hits, sometimes he misses.
I would guess this is one of his misses. I also don't know if complaining about college sports is a "challenge" to conventional wisdom. It seems to be pretty commonplace among academia.
 
Just want to suggest that what he says about the law schools is indeed correct. As with the university as a whole, resources are the key. I take it he is suggesting that the BOG subsidy that goes to athletics ought to go to academics instead. (President Barchi is moving to eliminate the subsidy, which would be very helpful, and in addition, getting more revenue from the prime sports is a key to cutting that subsidy -- the olympic sports don't bring in revenue.)

I think people ought to be troubled about what he says about the tour guides. They clearly are not talking the school up very much. It also doesn't help for Rutgers officials to be telling students to go elsewhere.

Let me add that in journalism-speak, the piece is not an editorial -- which is where a newspaper expresses its own views -- but a column -- a piece of commentary written by staff or an outsider, and which the newspaper does not necessarily agree with.


This post was edited on 9/22 1:02 PM by camdenlawprof
 
Do you agree a consolidation of the two schools and move to NB is the future (or answer)?
 
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
Just want to suggest that what he says about the law schools is indeed correct. As with the university as a whole, resources are the key. I take it he is suggesting that the BOG subsidy that goes to athletics ought to go to academics instead. (President Barchi is moving to eliminate the subsidy, which would be very helpful, and in addition, getting more revenue from the prime sports is a key to cutting that subsidy -- the olympic sports don't bring in revenue.)

I think people ought to be troubled about what he says about the tour guides. They clearly are not talking the school up very much. It also doesn't help for Rutgers officials to be telling students to go elsewhere.

Let me add that in journalism-speak, the piece is not an editorial -- which is where a newspaper expresses its own views -- but a column -- a piece of commentary written by staff or an outsider, and which the newspaper does not necessarily agree with.


This post was edited on 9/22 1:02 PM by camdenlawprof
This is correct. Though myself I tend to only use the word "column" if it was done by an actual columnist.
 
Originally posted by e5fdny:

Do you agree a consolidation of the two schools and move to NB is the future (or answer)?
A move to NB does not seem to be in the cards. Rather, there is going to be some kind of merger between the Camden and Newark law schools that will leave each on their respective campuses.. No one is quite sure how this is going to work, but the powers that be like it -- perhaps because it might lower administrative expenses and make it easier to run joint classes, especially distance learning.

Barchi's strategic plan has not a single word to say about improving the law schools. He is much more oriented to the medical sciences -- no surprise why that would be.
 
I would state my opinion in further detail but you all know it.

And once the law schools move to NB, toss all the money at that we can.

The author not mentioning Sweeney's ploy or Newark's "alternative track" and their effect on the ranking is completely disingenuous.
 
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:

Originally posted by e5fdny:


Do you agree a consolidation of the two schools and move to NB is the future (or answer)?
A move to NB does not seem to be in the cards. Rather, there is going to be some kind of merger between the Camden and Newark law schools that will leave each on their respective campuses.. No one is quite sure how this is going to work, but the powers that be like it -- perhaps because it might lower administrative expenses and make it easier to run joint classes, especially distance learning.

Barchi's strategic plan has not a single word to say about improving the law schools. He is much more oriented to the medical sciences -- no surprise why that would be.
We know it's not supposedly in the cards.

I just want to know what you think...would it be better for one Rutgers Law at/in NB?
 
Originally posted by e5fdny:
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:

Originally posted by e5fdny:


Do you agree a consolidation of the two schools and move to NB is the future (or answer)?
A move to NB does not seem to be in the cards. Rather, there is going to be some kind of merger between the Camden and Newark law schools that will leave each on their respective campuses.. No one is quite sure how this is going to work, but the powers that be like it -- perhaps because it might lower administrative expenses and make it easier to run joint classes, especially distance learning.

Barchi's strategic plan has not a single word to say about improving the law schools. He is much more oriented to the medical sciences -- no surprise why that would be.
We know it's not supposedly in the cards.

I just want to know what you think...would it be better for one Rutgers Law at/in NB?

That is a somewhat unfair question. CLP has been at Camden for several years or more (at least as long as he has been posting here). I assume he lives within a reasonable distance of Camden, and has friends and family in the area. Even if he objectively thought the law school would be better served in a different location, it is hard to publicly admit that, knowing you'd be advocating uprooting and moving to a location where you have no roots.
 
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
Originally posted by Upstream:
Is this written by CamdenLawProf who posts here, or is this just some other professor at Camden?
I am not the author. The author is a law school colleague of mine who likes to challenge conventional wisdom. Sometimes he hits, sometimes he misses.
Well, Camden please tell him, BOY HE MISSED AND MISSED BADLY.

Tony, great post. I couldn't agree more. This "law professor" is clueless. Absolutely clueless.
 
Thank you, Upstream, but it's OK to ask me. I thought the question was dual -- do you want it to happen, and do you think it will happen? I addressed the latter question, and as I indicated the answer is no. You're right that I dodged the first question, in part because I have given my views many times before. I think the idea is *so* impracticable that it is not even worth thinking about. I also think it diverts attention from the much more do-able strategy of investing in the existing law schools; they might not be as good as a law school at NB would be, but they could certainly rise considerably in the rankings just by having their budgets increase. But certainly, if we could take a time machine to the 1960s, if not earlier, it would have been wise for RU to close the Newark law schooland to instead have a law school at New Brunswick. Such a law school would certainly rank considerably higher than either campus does. On the other hand, doing that would have been politically difficult. Maybe we have to take our time machine back to the 1930s, before the Newark campus became part of Rutgers.

This post was edited on 9/22 5:47 PM by camdenlawprof
 
This guys 2nd to last paragraph is 100% Garbage.

Actually his whole piece is garbage, including the fact that his two kids decided not to go to Rutgers.
 
Originally posted by S_Janowski:
This guys 2nd to last paragraph is 100% Garbage.

Actually his whole piece is garbage, including the fact that his two kids decided not to go to Rutgers.
You're entitled to your opinion, but he is spending a fair amount of bucks to send his sons elsewhere. Indeed, I know of very few of my colleagues who have sent children to Rutgers. Neither of the two past deans sent their children to Rutgers. (The support staff does so with greater frequency).
 
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
Originally posted by S_Janowski:
This guys 2nd to last paragraph is 100% Garbage.

Actually his whole piece is garbage, including the fact that his two kids decided not to go to Rutgers.
You're entitled to your opinion, but he is spending a fair amount of bucks to send his sons elsewhere. Indeed, I know of very few of my colleagues who have sent children to Rutgers. Neither of the two past deans sent their children to Rutgers. (The support staff does so with greater frequency).
Of course they don't. I'm not surprised at all.

It is wrong to compare the 40% subsidy with our first year in the BIG10. In 5 years that subsidy will be way down and revenues will be way up. That's a fact. If this guy did 2 minutes of homework he could have found this out.
 
sounds from the link that the program is a substantial way from being self-supporting. In the short run, costs are going up while revenues are not. Let's hope for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but let's not call it "a fact." At best, it's a projection.

Rutgers athletics spending
 
Football is always the straw man in these type of rants, but the bottom line is football is now almost, and in the future will definitely be, self sufficient. It's the other non-revenue sports that cost a boat load in the aggregate. Is this prof arguing to get rid of all of these sports?

It's also ironic to quote Christie about "good, not great," when the State is the major culprit here by cutting funding to RU from nearly 75% of tuition in 1990 to about 25% now (and 15% for the law schools), while preventing RU from taking more than about 10% of out-of-state students to help bring in additional revenues.

Finally, the prof compares us to Princeton and Yeshiva, who don't have D-1 football teams, but ignores Stanford, Notre Dame, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Michigan, UVA, etc. I guess they all suck? For a law professor, his arguments are particularly anemic. Maybe part of the problem for the law schools is a failure to attract better professors.










This post was edited on 10/23 11:44 AM by RU-ROCS
 
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
sounds from the link that the program is a substantial way from being self-supporting. In the short run, costs are going up while revenues are not. Let's hope for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but let's not call it "a fact." At best, it's a projection.
Revenues and donations are going up. That's a fact.

The subsidy will be going down. That's a fact. (It shot up this past year due to the exit costs to leave the AAC and the Mike Rice scandal).

Costs will always go up. That's the nature of the game now that we are in the BIG10. You have to invest in your programs/facilities if you want to be relevant and succeed. You also have inflation which factors into rising costs.

We are years away from being self-supporting. Not many D1 schools across the nation are self supporting. We are headed in the right direction though.
 
Anytime you put something in the future tense, you're reporting a prediction, not a fact. Yes, donations are up but so are costs -- and not entirely due to the exit payout, either. We're all hoping the projections come true, but just remember they're projections.
 
Originally posted by camdenlawprof:
Anytime you put something in the future tense, you're reporting a prediction, not a fact. Yes, donations are up but so are costs -- and not entirely due to the exit payout, either. We're all hoping the projections come true, but just remember they're projections.
I said that Costs are going up and they will continue to go up.

They will not go up at the same rate as Donations + Revenues though. Which means that the Subsidy is on it's way down. It's simple math.

You can argue that it's a forecast but you only have to look at the other schools in the BIG10 and see what share of the pie they are getting. It was wayyyyy more than what Rutgers got in the Big East/AAC. Once Rutgers gets it's full share in a little over 5 years we will be in much better shape with the subsidy.

It seems like we disagree but I think if we revisit in 3 or 5 years it will be easy to see the trend. Rutgers is under a lot of pressure to reduce the subsidy and they have made one of their top goals to reduce it. Any major spending projects will be largely financed through private $'s.
This post was edited on 9/25 10:40 PM by S_Janowski
 
Well, we know one position where Rutgers is wasting money!
What a buffoon!
 
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