Cost of Building in NJ vs. Elsewhere

[Knight Shift]

Why is it in NJ, building anything seems to be incredibly more expensive than anywhere else?

AT&T Stadium (Cowboys) $1.15 Billion, and a heck of a lot nicer than Met Life Stadium for $1.60 billion.

Ohio State just opened their new state of the art Chemistry and Chemical Engineering building--225,000 square feet, cost $126 million, or $560 per square foot.

Rutgers chemistry building in progress is projected to cost $115 million for 145,000 square feet, or close to $800 per square foot. That is the estimated cost. It's a safe bet the final cost will be higher.

Yeah, wages are higher in NJ--but by this much?

OSU Chemistry Facility

 

[imbazza]

You must not be from Jersey!
Have you ever heard of unions, or "The Family" or politicians or Kick backs. It the way of doing business in Jersey!
This post was edited on 4/5 12:15 PM by imbazza

 

[Knight Shift]

Originally posted by imbazza:
You must not be from Jersey!
Have you ever heard of unions, or "The Family" or politicians or Kick backs. It the way of doing business in Jersey!
This post was edited on 4/5 12:15 PM by imbazza

The real standout is Met Life Stadium. What a piece of crap that is for the price. No comparison to AT&T. I wonder what the cost would have been at Met Life if it had a dome?

Hope costs can be reigned in for Rutgers athletic projects.

 

[RC1978]

Prevailing wage is also a real killer. We wanted to add a 5 ton AC unit to a public building. If we went to a local AC guy it would have been around $8-10k. Going by state rules $80k.

 

[T2Kplus10]

Originally posted by Knight Shift:
Why is it in NJ, building anything seems to be incredibly more expensive than anywhere else?

AT&T Stadium (Cowboys) $1.15 Billion, and a heck of a lot nicer than Met Life Stadium for $1.60 billion.

Ohio State just opened their new state of the art Chemistry and Chemical Engineering building--225,000 square feet, cost $126 million, or $560 per square foot.

Rutgers chemistry building in progress is projected to cost $115 million for 145,000 square feet, or close to $800 per square foot. That is the estimated cost. It's a safe bet the final cost will be higher.

Yeah, wages are higher in NJ--but by this much?

Welcome to years of a Democratic leadership and a liberal state supreme court.

 

[RUMcMahon]

Originally posted by Knight Shift:

Originally posted by imbazza:
You must not be from Jersey!
Have you ever heard of unions, or "The Family" or politicians or Kick backs. It the way of doing business in Jersey!
This post was edited on 4/5 12:15 PM by imbazza

The real standout is Met Life Stadium. What a piece of crap that is for the price. No comparison to AT&T. I wonder what the cost would have been at Met Life if it had a dome?

Hope costs can be reigned in for Rutgers athletic projects.

Totally agree. I went to AT&T last year , makes MetLife look like a dump. Difference is cost is a joke.

 

[RULoyal]

First of all you're going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there's the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I'm sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with ya, and that'll cost ya. Oh and don't forget a little something for the building inspectors. Then there's long term costs such as waste disposal. I don't know if you're familiar with who runs that business but I assure you it's not the boy scouts.

 

[Virginiarufan]

Get rid of the legislators that back the unions and turn the State into an at-will employment State. The unions have a stranglehold on NJ and every resident pays for it.
You allow non-union labor to compete for construction projects and your costs go down by at least 25%. It can be done. Didn't Wisconsin do it recently?

 

[jdswild34]

Rodney Dangerfield one of the best ever. Back to school. Dean Martin. ....

 

[RUfinal4]

price of labor is higher. Whether it is Unions or non-Union the NY / NJ area is pricier. I have relatives that moved from NJ to AZ. For handyman type work the price per hour was almost half. The companies pay higher taxes in NJ. Delivery of materials is pricier (partially because of tolls). The worker's rents / mortgages are higher. It all adds up.

The minimum wage may be different too:
NJ - $8.38
OH - $8.10
TX - $7.25
AZ - $8.05
NY - $8.75
FL - $8.05

While minimum wage may not apply to large building projects the wage differences may be similar at higher levels. Plus in NJ we may require a licensed electrician to be on site to flip a light switch while in another state a laborer can do it.

I remember working for a company in NYC where Union rules required them to bring in an electrician to do something I considered basic and would do myself at home. Working for the same company in a NJ location they were able to bring in an onsite person from the building to do the same thing.

 

[rurichdog]

If you want to bid on government contracts your labor costs are what the prevailing union shop wages are for that work. Doesn't matter if you pay that rate, your bid can't show a lower rate.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[rufeelinit]

Originally posted by Knight Shift:

Originally posted by imbazza:
You must not be from Jersey!
Have you ever heard of unions, or "The Family" or politicians or Kick backs. It the way of doing business in Jersey!
This post was edited on 4/5 12:15 PM by imbazza

The real standout is Met Life Stadium. What a piece of crap that is for the price. No comparison to AT&T. I wonder what the cost would have been at Met Life if it had a dome?

Hope costs can be reigned in for Rutgers athletic projects.

When you think about it the cost of our last football expansion project was outrageous. Could not even complete the full plan for the over $100MM it cost.

 

[RUfromSoCal?]

 

[huskersalways]

Originally posted by RUfinal4:
price of labor is higher. Whether it is Unions or non-Union the NY / NJ area is pricier. I have relatives that moved from NJ to AZ. For handyman type work the price per hour was almost half. The companies pay higher taxes in NJ. Delivery of materials is pricier (partially because of tolls). The worker's rents / mortgages are higher. It all adds up.

The minimum wage may be different too:
NJ - $8.38
OH - $8.10
TX - $7.25
AZ - $8.05
NY - $8.75
FL - $8.05

While minimum wage may not apply to large building projects the wage differences may be similar at higher levels. Plus in NJ we may require a licensed electrician to be on site to flip a light switch while in another state a laborer can do it.

I remember working for a company in NYC where Union rules required them to bring in an electrician to do something I considered basic and would do myself at home. Working for the same company in a NJ location they were able to bring in an onsite person from the building to do the same thing.

For a lot of projects whether they are government or private companies have to use the Davis Bacon scale. It varies a bunch from state to state and minimum wage and unions have little to do with it. Being a pro union state certainly doesn't help you because the unions will use this scale and expect to be paid more for being "a professional" at what they do vs. somebody from a company that is non union and hires people as they see fit for the job. I have been on jobs where guys have made a different wage multiple times during the day or where the job crossed county lines and the pay rate changed. If they did away with unions and just used the Davis Bacon scale as a minimum wage scale for workers everything would cost less, yet employees would still be able to earn a decent living. Just wouldn't have to pay the fat asses in the union office. Nebraska is a right to work state and I think Omaha is the only place that has any union stuff but most of them have went broke. In Nebraska the terms Union employee and Unemployed are the same thing.

By State

 

[scarletjimmy]

Originally posted by RULoyal:
First of all you're going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there's the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I'm sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with ya, and that'll cost ya. Oh and don't forget a little something for the building inspectors. Then there's long term costs such as waste disposal. I don't know if you're familiar with who runs that business but I assure you it's not the boy scouts.

That's enough Mr. Melon Loyal, Maybe bribes, kickbacks and mafia pay=offs are how you do business, but they are not part of the legitimate business world and certainly are not part of anything I am teaching in this class. DO I make myself clear?

 

[IL Lusciato]

Multimillionaire and billionaire companies want to build things? Let's pt the people to work at a liveable wage. This also helps local bar owners, lunch places, boot shops whatever.

And screw a dome. Football is an outdoor sport.

 

[HeyHuey]

I'm sure that OP RW Bomb-Thrower needs this explained. Look up from Met-Life Stadium...what do you see? NY Skyline. Ta-Daa. Look up from A&TT Stadium. What do you see? Dirt! Ta-Daa.

 

[csphi]

Originally posted by HeyHuey:
I'm sure that OP RW Bomb-Thrower needs this explained. Look up from Met-Life Stadium...what do you see? NY Skyline. Ta-Daa. Look up from A&TT Stadium. What do you see? Dirt! Ta-Daa.

Huh?

one has nothing to do with the other

has nothing to do with left vs right

take a look at the numbers before overreacting into a silly left-right debate

Oh and by the way, the OP didn't mention politics in his post




This post was edited on 4/5 6:51 PM by csphi

 

[Caliknight]

This is a major issue as to why RU has a near impossible job to keep up in the arms race. Unions and liberal NJ politics make building anything in the state unusually and incredibly expensive.

That needs to change, but is unlikely it ever will.

 

[Knight Shift]

Originally posted by csphi:

Originally posted by HeyHuey:
I'm sure that OP RW Bomb-Thrower needs this explained. Look up from Met-Life Stadium...what do you see? NY Skyline. Ta-Daa. Look up from A&TT Stadium. What do you see? Dirt! Ta-Daa.

Huh?

one has nothing to do with the other

has nothing to do with left vs right

take a look at the numbers before overreacting into a silly left-right debate

Oh and by the way, the OP didn't mention politics in his post




This post was edited on 4/5 6:51 PM by csphi

LOL at HeyHuey. Was wondering what a RW Bomb thrower was. Looked up AT&T Stadium

:
Dum, dee dumb, dumb.

Why does every thread have to devolve into politics?

 

[jtung230]

My contractor is not union but I could have built a mansion in Texas for the renovation costs. It's supply and demand, not all politics/unions.

 

[Caliknight]

Originally posted by IL Lusciato:
Multimillionaire and billionaire companies want to build things? Let's pt the people to work at a liveable wage. This also helps local bar owners, lunch places, boot shops whatever.

And screw a dome. Football is an outdoor sport.

Rutgers is a billion dollar company?

 

[HeyHuey]

I apologize to Dirt.....Texas is Desert.

 

[Roy_Faulker]

You should take some classes at the Thorton Mellon school of business...

What's a widget

 

[Roy_Faulker]

You should take some classes at the Thorton Mellon school of business...

What's a widget

 

[IL Lusciato]

Originally posted by Caliknight:

Originally posted by IL Lusciato:
Multimillionaire and billionaire companies want to build things? Let's pt the people to work at a liveable wage. This also helps local bar owners, lunch places, boot shops whatever.

And screw a dome. Football is an outdoor sport.

Rutgers is a billion dollar company?

Rutgers is not the only entity in the question. My opinion was regarding for profit building like the metlife stadium people have been discussing.

As to Rutgers, a public entity is basically pumping $ into the market when it facilitates a project like this. Workers may as well as get a piece since the well-connected and equipped folks will benefit.

 

[StyleKnight]

Revel.

Xanadu.

 

[PaKnight]

Originally posted by HeyHuey:
I apologize to Dirt.....Texas is Desert.

What does the view have anything to do with the topic?

 

[RUaMoose]

Originally posted by RULoyal:
First of all you're going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there's the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I'm sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with ya, and that'll cost ya. Oh and don't forget a little something for the building inspectors. Then there's long term costs such as waste disposal. I don't know if you're familiar with who runs that business but I assure you it's not the boy scouts.

And don't complain about the service either.............

Get your garbage back

 

[DJ Spanky]

Originally posted by rufeelinit:

Originally posted by Knight Shift:

Originally posted by imbazza:
You must not be from Jersey!
Have you ever heard of unions, or "The Family" or politicians or Kick backs. It the way of doing business in Jersey!

The real standout is Met Life Stadium. What a piece of crap that is for the price. No comparison to AT&T. I wonder what the cost would have been at Met Life if it had a dome?

Hope costs can be reigned in for Rutgers athletic projects.

When you think about it the cost of our last football expansion project was outrageous. Could not even complete the full plan for the over $100MM it cost.

We've gone through this before: the plan included other items than the stadium expansion. Many people including the media always gloss over or ignore that.