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Here's some money -- now give it back

keywestRU

keywestRU

Sophomore
Gold Member
May 18, 2008
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First VaTech DC Jim Foster announced that he would be imposing fines on players against their "cost of attendance money" for various infractions, then after a storm of protest his AD nuked the whole idea.

But that didn't deter another genius, Tuberville of Cincy, who likes the idea to enforce "accountability" with fines, and his AD seems to agree.

So the $2.2-million-a-year coach is going to dock the five grand or so his players will get.

You can't make this stuff up.
 
RU4Real said:
The point you seem to be overlooking is "no infractions = no fines".

Players want to be paid like grown-ups, they wanted to be treated like grown-ups then they need to be held accountable like grown-ups.
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He also assumes that the fines will be in the $1000.+ range. I have no problem with a $50 fine for being late to a team meeting.
 
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RU4Real said:
The point you seem to be overlooking is "no infractions = no fines".

Players want to be paid like grown-ups, they wanted to be treated like grown-ups then they need to be held accountable like grown-ups.
Click to expand...
+1

I'm cool with this as long as the $$ amounts are within reason.

I personally think the concept is a great idea.
 
RU4Real said:
The point you seem to be overlooking is "no infractions = no fines".

Players want to be paid like grown-ups, they wanted to be treated like grown-ups then they need to be held accountable like grown-ups.
Click to expand...

You think the players getting "paid" $4,000-$5,000 is like getting paid like a grown-up? This isn't a salary. This money is for cost of attendance. This isn't a taxable wage salary. This is a ridiculous idea. How about this idea, if players screw up they don't play. At the end of the day, a football player wants to play football. Take away his playing time and that will be punishment enough.
 
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nukem said:
You think the players getting "paid" $4,000-$5,000 is like getting paid like a grown-up? This isn't a salary. This money is for cost of attendance. This isn't a taxable wage salary. This is a ridiculous idea. How about this idea, if players screw up they don't play. At the end of the day, a football player wants to play football. Take away his playing time and that will be punishment enough.
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Like the first quarter of a cupcake game?
 
nukem said:
You think the players getting "paid" $4,000-$5,000 is like getting paid like a grown-up? This isn't a salary. This money is for cost of attendance. This isn't a taxable wage salary. This is a ridiculous idea. How about this idea, if players screw up they don't play. At the end of the day, a football player wants to play football. Take away his playing time and that will be punishment enough.
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Hi.

You're an idiot.

They're on full scholarship. They get free tuition, room & board, meals and books.

The $5k a year extra is nothing other than spending money. It's money that most college students actually have to work for. It's an allowance. It's a gift. And like everything else, with it comes an expectation of responsibility.
 
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RU4Real said:
Hi.

You're an idiot.

They're on full scholarship. They get free tuition, room & board, meals and books.

The $5k a year extra is nothing other than spending money. It's money that most college students actually have to work for. It's an allowance. It's a gift. And like everything else, with it comes an expectation of responsibility.
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First of all, they do work. Football is a full time commitment and they aren't allowed to get paying jobs in addition to playing football.

Second, I can't imagine you being too happy with every time you messed something up at work your boss asked for 50 or 100 bucks to teach you a lesson.

I think this does the opposite of teaching them to be like adults, it teaches them that they're children that can have their allowance taken away. Stupid, stupid idea.
 
jup540 said:
First of all, they do work. Football is a full time commitment and they aren't allowed to get paying jobs in addition to playing football.

Second, I can't imagine you being too happy with every time you messed something up at work your boss asked for 50 or 100 bucks to teach you a lesson.

I think this does the opposite of teaching them to be like adults, it teaches them that they're children that can have their allowance taken away. Stupid, stupid idea.
Click to expand...

Professional athletes get fined for breaking the rules.

Professionals in other fields also get fined for breaking the rules. It's rarely as simple as your simpleminded strawman, but non-performance in the professional world absolutely has monetary consequences, especially in the modern era of variable compensation packages.

The "they play football and it's a full-time commitment" nonsense is tiresome. Yes, they play football. Yes, it's a full-time commitment. And in exchange for that they are getting a direct benefit worth upwards of a couple hundred thousand dollars. Spare me the teeth-gnashing, garment-rending tripe about how disadvantaged these kids are because "oh woe is me, they work so hard and get nothing for it". That's absurd. They're getting more than anyone else in the school gets, period.
 
jup540 said:
Second, I can't imagine you being too happy with every time you messed something up at work your boss asked for 50 or 100 bucks to teach you a lesson.
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These guys aren't going to be fined for missing a block.
 
Abro1975 said:
Already Dead in the Water.
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It's a shame, because in spite of the assertion of the random numbnuts, it's a pretty good idea.

Consider the fact that right now there are only two ways to discipline a kid:
  • Remove him from the field
  • Remove him from the team
That's it. There's nothing else. And frankly, since football is a team sport, in many cases disciplining a player through suspension or dismissal doesn't just hurt the player, it hurts the team.

If coaches had the ability to levy fines of $50 or $100 for things like breaking curfew, missing team meetings or skipping a class then it would provide another level of discipline which impacts the player directly but not so much those around him.

Who knows, maybe if Kyle Flood was able to fine Nadir Barnwell for skipping classes, he might have straightened up his act enough to actually pass some of them instead of now facing dismissal from the team.
 
RU4Real said:
Hi.

You're an idiot.

They're on full scholarship. They get free tuition, room & board, meals and books.

The $5k a year extra is nothing other than spending money. It's money that most college students actually have to work for. It's an allowance. It's a gift. And like everything else, with it comes an expectation of responsibility.
Click to expand...

You think a college football player getting an extra $4,000 for expenses is like getting paid a salary and therefore is subject to monetary fines and I'm the idiot? Well thankfully you're not running the athletic department. And I'm sure our AD won't see it your way.
 
i think it's a good idea. No different than withholding allowance money as a punishment. Don't do stupid sh*t and you get paid. Do stupid sh*t and get fined.
 
nukem said:
You think a college football player getting an extra $4,000 for expenses is like getting paid a salary and therefore is subject to monetary fines and I'm the idiot? Well thankfully you're not running the athletic department. And I'm sure our AD won't see it your way.
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Hey dumbass - said college student doesn't have any other expenses. He doesn't have a mortgage, he's not paying property taxes, he doesn't have a grocery bill, he doesn't have car payments and he's not putting two kids through college.

Seriously, this board needs an enema. It used to be that the community as a whole had at least some measurable level of intellect.
 
Hypothetically, would you standardize the fines nationwide, standardize the fines and raise/lower them to reflect the specific COA allowance each school gives, or just leave it up to the school as to create their own policy?
 
PhilaPhans said:
Hypothetically, would you standardize the fines nationwide, standardize the fines and raise/lower them to reflect the specific COA allowance each school gives, or just leave it up to the school as to create their own policy?
Click to expand...

I think the best way to do it would be allow the schools to set their own policy, but also to establish a maximum fine limit, along with a maximum number of fines before implementing harsher punishment (3rd infraction = suspension, for example).

It might also make sense to establish what happens to the money, since you wouldn't necessarily want the school to simply keep it in their pocket.
 
RU4Real said:
Hey dumbass - said college student doesn't have any other expenses. He doesn't have a mortgage, he's not paying property taxes, he doesn't have a grocery bill, he doesn't have car payments and he's not putting two kids through college.

Seriously, this board needs an enema. It used to be that the community as a whole had at least some measurable level of intellect.
Click to expand...

Seriously? You need the enema more than the board does. Have you been noticing there are A LOT of people who think athletes should get more. In 2011 the NCAA voted to increase stipends by $2000 and then put it on hold two month later. A lot of people expressed the idea the increase should have been as much as $4000. Fining players is a stupid idea since they aren't technically earning a wage from the college. Valid punishments should include loss of playing time and dismissal from the team. Fines? How about you PAY them first.
 
sherrane said:
Seriously? You need the enema more than the board does. Have you been noticing there are A LOT of people who think athletes should get more. In 2011 the NCAA voted to increase stipends by $2000 and then put it on hold two month later. A lot of people expressed the idea the increase should have been as much as $4000. Fining players is a stupid idea since they aren't technically earning a wage from the college. Valid punishments should include loss of playing time and dismissal from the team. Fines? How about you PAY them first.
Click to expand...

You have trouble with basic concepts too, I see.

They ARE getting paid.

Tuition, room and board are "direct benefits".

So is the stipend.

This isn't slave labor. If they don't like the conditions of their scholarship then there's a very simple answer - don't play football. Pay for your own education.

This isn't complicated stuff.
 
RU4Real said:
The point you seem to be overlooking is "no infractions = no fines".

Players want to be paid like grown-ups, they wanted to be treated like grown-ups then they need to be held accountable like grown-ups.
Click to expand...

They arent being paid like grownups. Also - I doubt grownup jobs could get away with docking your pay for infractions of work rules.
 
$100 for an in-game penalty.............. not the kind of accountability I was thinking of.
 
derleider said:
They arent being paid like grownups. Also - I doubt grownup jobs could get away with docking your pay for infractions of work rules.
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Last I saw, upwards of $40-50k per year in tuition, room, board, books and stipend is absolutely equivalent to a grown-up wage.

It's funny that all the people arguing for payers to "be paid" conveniently don't address the fact that they're getting an annual direct monetary benefit which exceeds the average salary for an individual taxpayer in the U.S.
 
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RU4Real said:
Last I saw, upwards of $40-50k per year in tuition, room, board, books and stipend is absolutely equivalent to a grown-up wage.

It's funny that all the people arguing for payers to "be paid" conveniently don't address the fact that they're getting an annual direct monetary benefit which exceeds the average salary for an individual taxpayer in the U.S.
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Well - when they can convert the cost of education into money to pay for fines, then we can talk.

I think they should be paid what the market will bear. For some of them, thats millions. For most, its not even the value of the education - but that would be the minimum salary - since its still college football.

But in the meantime - they are getting paid - very little, and fining them from that is ridiculous.
 
derleider said:
Well - when they can convert the cost of education into money to pay for fines, then we can talk.

I think they should be paid what the market will bear. For some of them, thats millions. For most, its not even the value of the education - but that would be the minimum salary - since its still college football.

But in the meantime - they are getting paid - very little, and fining them from that is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Show your work. Draft a pro forma balance sheet and financial statement which demonstrates that the players on any college football team are "worth millions".

And once again, the obtuse get more obtuse - nobody is suggesting that they be stripped of all their stipend. What I and others are suggesting is that in the course of any given year they can be fined somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 times, at a maximum of $100 per, for disciplinary infractions which might now, under existing team rules, necessitate a suspension.
 
Hard to argue they aren't already getting paid a direct benefit.

Plus they get daily meal money when they travel (at least in the past they did).

Nothing wrong with a little accountability
 
RU4Real said:
Hi.

You're an idiot.

They're on full scholarship. They get free tuition, room & board, meals and books.

The $5k a year extra is nothing other than spending money. It's money that most college students actually have to work for. It's an allowance. It's a gift. And like everything else, with it comes an expectation of responsibility.
Click to expand...
I agree with you but they spend a lot more time with the team, practice, working out and therefore asking them to work jobs, take care of football AND school is much. I think some stipends are well within reason.
 
theRU said:
I agree with you but they spend a lot more time with the team, practice, working out and therefore asking them to work jobs, take care of football AND school is much. I think some stipends are well within reason.
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying that some stipends aren't within reason.

What I'm saying is that the people who are insisting that those stipends somehow don't count as... ya know... money... are out in left field.

And if you read my last few posts, you'd realize that I'm coming down on the side of small, occasional fines as a means to avoid larger issues that could seriously - and perhaps unnecessarily - disrupt the individual's future and the team's performance.
 
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RU4Real said:
The point you seem to be overlooking is "no infractions = no fines".

Players want to be paid like grown-ups, they wanted to be treated like grown-ups then they need to be held accountable like grown-ups.
Click to expand...
These players aren't being paid anything like grown ups. The coaches are being paid like grown ups, though some of them clearly are not.
 
nukem said:
You think the players getting "paid" $4,000-$5,000 is like getting paid like a grown-up? This isn't a salary. This money is for cost of attendance. This isn't a taxable wage salary. This is a ridiculous idea. How about this idea, if players screw up they don't play. At the end of the day, a football player wants to play football. Take away his playing time and that will be punishment enough.
Click to expand...
This.
Screw up and you get suspended for a game ( or more based on the severity).
Although matching a dock of their "pay" for the amount games missed (suspended) should be strongly considered.
 
In theory it sounds like a great idea. In reality, I see way too many potential issues with fining players money. First, it could be used by cash-strapped teams to withhold funds that were promised. Way too easy to abuse. Second, it could be used very easily in negative recruiting.
 
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LotusAggressor said:
These players aren't being paid anything like grown ups. The coaches are being paid like grown ups, though some of them clearly are not.
Click to expand...


That's such nonsense. Do you have any idea what it costs for room and board at a university these days. For crying out loud how many parents dream is it for their kids to get a full time scholarship so they don't have to pay or the child incur loans.
 
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