Greg discusses tomorrow on Reem and Beam Unplugged.
Agree with Greg here?
Agree with Greg here?
Kyle Monangai vs. Ray Rice
- Thread starter Knight Shift
- Start date
Thought it would be an interesting topic? Pork roll debates more important.
Here's the full video.
Here's the full video.
The “stronger as the game goes on” piece is what sticks out to me. Ray (and the line) used to just wear teams out in the second half. Pittsburgh in 2006 being the best example. Saw flashes of that from KM last year. Hopefully it continues.
Shelby would prefer Chad Bosch over either of them.
Bosch would have been a Heisman contender had we a fieldhouse to attract better talent and depth back then, ain't that right Fieldhouse Al ?
Bosch would have been a Heisman contender had we a fieldhouse to attract better talent and depth back then, ain't that right Fieldhouse Al ?
Another enjoyable listen. More bro-less than the previous episodes.
Most interesting thing I heard (as someone who has listened to coach for 20+ years) was about the difference between the "like it, love it or, live it" players. Coach prefers the "love football" types because the "live it" types can fall off the beam if something goes wrong (like injuries etc).
As for Rice vs Mongo comparison, Rice would have had the NCAA career record if he returned as a senior and just got his yardage per season average (1642). Rice's first season was great but he got better every year despite opposing defenses making him their #1 target.
Rice was strong with a vicious straight arm but his legs were like tree trunks (had to see him in person) with calves bigger than lineman had, He could use his arm like a third leg and pick-up another couple yards while falling forward. The Raven's GM (Ozzie Newsome) said he drafted Rice because every pile-up he ran into he came out on the other side. Defenders used to complain how much their lower legs would hurt from Rice pounding on them there.
But, Rice was also a point guard in basketball and as strong as he was he liked to run through defenses like water going downhill in a brook. He also knew where to find the spaces and to just keep slip-sliding through path of least resistance. But then he could blow people up. Rice liked to run through the cracks in the wall more than being a sledge (which he could do). Rice was the iron fist in the velvet glove
Mongo explodes into people more and that's visible even on blocks, He also had good vision and picks spots well, but he can slow progress on cuts more, where Rice would just keep rolling on cuts and jukes and tumbles. Rice was the master of YAC yards and those are what got Baltimore to the Super Bowl (the Hey Diddle Diddle - Ray Rice Up the Middle" play). Mongo has made great runs but I haven't seen him threatening NCAA records or even Rutgers records so far.
Both benefited from lower profile. I'm a fan of compact RBs because if they have enough explosion and can run low, the defense loses track of them, Defenders find them as they are running past them. Neither had great long speed for the 100 yd TD run but they could for 40-60 no problem.
Rice and Devin McCourty are the two best Rutgers players I ever saw. After that there are great players but those guys were on their own level
As for Rice vs Mongo comparison, Rice would have had the NCAA career record if he returned as a senior and just got his yardage per season average (1642). Rice's first season was great but he got better every year despite opposing defenses making him their #1 target.
Rice was strong with a vicious straight arm but his legs were like tree trunks (had to see him in person) with calves bigger than lineman had, He could use his arm like a third leg and pick-up another couple yards while falling forward. The Raven's GM (Ozzie Newsome) said he drafted Rice because every pile-up he ran into he came out on the other side. Defenders used to complain how much their lower legs would hurt from Rice pounding on them there.
But, Rice was also a point guard in basketball and as strong as he was he liked to run through defenses like water going downhill in a brook. He also knew where to find the spaces and to just keep slip-sliding through path of least resistance. But then he could blow people up. Rice liked to run through the cracks in the wall more than being a sledge (which he could do). Rice was the iron fist in the velvet glove
Mongo explodes into people more and that's visible even on blocks, He also had good vision and picks spots well, but he can slow progress on cuts more, where Rice would just keep rolling on cuts and jukes and tumbles. Rice was the master of YAC yards and those are what got Baltimore to the Super Bowl (the Hey Diddle Diddle - Ray Rice Up the Middle" play). Mongo has made great runs but I haven't seen him threatening NCAA records or even Rutgers records so far.
Both benefited from lower profile. I'm a fan of compact RBs because if they have enough explosion and can run low, the defense loses track of them, Defenders find them as they are running past them. Neither had great long speed for the 100 yd TD run but they could for 40-60 no problem.
Rice and Devin McCourty are the two best Rutgers players I ever saw. After that there are great players but those guys were on their own level
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Well said- and I always hate comparisons of two good players from the same team. It makes you sometimes have to seem semi negative because of the comparison.
Rice and KM is the perfect example. And we have had a couple of other RB's that may have been closer to Rice talent then KM is- and that is not a negative- but not sure how you can compare an all time great RB in college and NFL(During his healthy seasons) to a very good RB in college that barely reached 1000 yards.
I love watching KM run and expect him to be even better this year. But the reality is- his best year may not be as good as RR's worst year.
And Ray was just special- not only the power, vision, burst- but his balance. I have seen his disappear until he hits the line not only because of stature of him and the OL but I have seen him change direction before he ever hit the line, going full speed make a full cut and his ass is literally less then a foot off the turn when he does so.
After Rice, the most naturally talented RB I saw was Paul James.
If he wasn't injury prone he might have menaced a Rice record of some kind (maybe single game)
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Shame he couldn't stay healthy. But that was a dirty helmet to knee hit on him vs. Navy. Dude could just explode into plays. He was fun to watch when he was out there.
Agree with this, but in terms of similarities, they both have/had an incredible ability to absorb the initial contact, bounce off and keep their legs moving forward to tack on additional yards. Very demoralizing for a defense to experience.
Maybe - that's how SA's played and such blocks were 120 yrs old.
The thing about James is that he was always an injury ready to happen.
It would have been a miracle to see him finish a season.
My only theory was that he was what RB coaches call a "hard planter".
When a lot of people get hit like that they get knocked off their feet.
I've even seen people hit by cars who get knocked out of their shoes.
James' legs just never gave out when hit at bad angles
Perfect example- you rarely if ever see RR lit up. His vision allowed him to know what was coming- if he could lite up the defender, he did but if they had the angle- you saw him take it and roll with it or get OOB. You just never saw him hit clean.
I think Kyle is the better blocker. Other than that I don't think it is particularly close.
Gonna have to disagree with you there. He got pretty overhyped on here during the Flood era. He piled up stats against a lot of teams OOC. Jawan Jamison was better than him. Pacheco better. Hell even Gus Edwards for that one year.
Jamison was very very good and agree- next best after Rice- it's funny, but Brian still may have been number 2 but the move to FB was a great move. Also think Jersey Joe is so under rated.
I would love your take on any of our guys you had to worry about. I always thought the toughest thing with Ray was that you could see his start and anticipate where he was hitting the line but all of a sudden, he was a yard or 2 away from where you expected him. And just always so hard to get a clean hit
James had 173 yd and 3 TDs vs Washington St to open the season in 2014. He only lasted 4 games. James never even finished a season but over 4 broken seasons he had 323 carries for 1810 yds for 5.6 average and 19 TDs. That's like a Rice season right there.
Greg's discussion wasn't who was better. It was a discussion of similarities and differences of the two.
Jamison's spin move to seal it vs. USF on the road was a thing of beauty. Found a clip, but not the best quality: Jamison vs USF
Definitely better quality, almost too good - looks like Burton got away with a bit of a hold on the play. 😎
Good points. I’m one of those that was hit by a car when I was a freshman in high school. Landed on the other side of the street with barely a bruised thigh.
Kyle is the best pass blocking RB I’ve ever seen in college
What game was it where a tackler ripped one of Jamison’s braids out and on TV they showed it laying on the field?
That was Jordan Brooks vs. Louisville in 2008. A 63-14 win and another great win!
That Navy hit was horrible, don't care what anybody says. He had such a great season going up to that point. I don't think he was ever the same after he came back.
Wish Jamison had stayed another year or two, both he and the team would have benefited from that.
And so underutilized.
