New article from Newsday
- Thread starter ScarletteK80
- Start date
This should be mandatory reading for everyone who wants CVS fired. I am talking about you Rich, and Bac and RUMAN and the others. Some things are more important than wins.
I think what CVS did was great and very important but get with it that was 10 years ago and myself along with Bac and RUMan want nothing more than this program to be a top program in the country which it should be but plain and simple they will not get there with CVS at the helm. They have improved alot this year but we are nowhere near a top team and will not be in the near future.
You are entitled to your opinion, but so are those of us that support CVS. IMO, she is an amazing woman and one hell of a coach. I don't believe it is her coaching that is the problem. It is the recruiting. I believe we haven't been getting the top tier players like we did in the past because of the facilities and the uncertainty for the past several years over the status of Vivian's contract. I truly believe it was Julie Hermann trying to make a name for herself that caused that problem and the wholesale exodus of all of our assistant coaches in one season. I also don't think moving to the B1G helped us in women's basketball. Who didn't want to play in the old Big East? It was a great conference for women's basketball and we attracted a lot more top local talent in addition to top talent from around the country. Just my two cents.
I see your Depends has leaked and gone to your brain. BAC and I are passionate everything Rutgers. We want to see all teams succeed. You must be a real miserable human being to constantly post garbage like this. Oh, and I really enjoyed you hunting down many of my posts the other day just so you could post them out of context. If you think you're supporting the women's program, you're not you old fart.
First off, Julie Hermann had NOTHING to do with Stringer's success dipping. That's all on Stringer. Secondly, as great as Stringer has been, she has made a name for herself and rightly so for being a great defensive mind. Offense is her kryptonite and always has been. Her idea of offense is the '55'. We get easy buckets off of the other team's mistakes. The problem is, in today's game, most of the coaches can adjust to the '55' and it's not as effective as it used to be. So with having a sound offense, Stringer still doesn't get. The late great Pat Summitt and Geno not only had/have great defensive teams, but great offensive teams, which is why they both have won so many championships and Stringer has none. Many of us who have supported and still support Stringer have urged her to get a top offensive associate head coach in and let them run the offense. She has refused to do so, and the same stagnant offense we see now, we have seen over the years. The only time her offenses succeed is when the talent is so great on the team, even she can't sabotage it.
One last point: you talk about recruiting. Yes it's about recruiting. It always has been. Who do you think recruits? The AD? That's just laughable. Yes, the facilities have been a problem and always have been. Thankfully that's finally over and Stringer has something concrete to show prospective recruits. But you can't just make a blanket statement like that, when after the 2007 run she brought in what many considered the number one class in the country. And what did she do with that class? Ruined it because she didn't grow and adjust to the "new" player. So don't blame her recent downfall on facilities. We had the number one class and she threw it away and ever since we've been paddling upstream with one oar.
You've obviously never spoken to a Tennessee fan. The biggest complaint during the Summitt era was that the teams couldn't play offense. (And Summitt was famous for saying that rebounding and defense won championships.)
And another thread gets hijacked. Can't we just enjoy the great article, and press(no pun intended) we are starting to get again?
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. How many Summitt people did you talk to? And you're going to comment on my lengthy response to another poster and zero in on your silly little argument that has nothing to do with the overall reasoning behind my response? Do you really think Summitt's offenses were as poor as Stringer's? Really? Is that what you're intimating to justify your rationale regarding Stringer?
The last I looked the late great Pat Summitt had 8 national championships. How many does Stringer have? I think Summitt's offenses were more than good enough don't you think? Next time you want to debate me, debate me on the overall facts and not cherry pick. Thanks.
I couldn't agree more. That's why I came on your thread, read the great article and did not respond until I read OldTimer's infantile post. I'm sorry I helped hijack your thread. The article was very good and I thank you for posting it.
I know BeK and I know for a fact that he has communicated with MANY Summitt people - probably more than the rest of us on this board combined have done.
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Now, can we all please stop with the childish and confrontational insults and try to communicate like adults? Thank you.
But Diana, that was not the point. Beknighted's justification had nothing to do with the overall point I was making and you know that. I like Beknighted. He/she has always added great insight to this board on the women's game. His comment was a poor attempt at defending Stringer's bad offenses over the years.
s for acting like adults, I think Old Timer needs a time out. I don't. BAC doesn't either. We come on the women's board and contribute and have been contributing since 2001. I don't know where this character came from or if he changed his name, but he doesn't contribute a thing! He follows me around or BAC around and tries to criticize what we say instead of debating or contributing. If you want to stop this, give that guy a time out. I guarantee you the confrontations, insults will stop. Oh and btw, I just put him on ignore. I guess I should have done that awhile ago.
When you started your post with "You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. How many Summitt people did you talk to?", I have to admit that I stopped reading there. It's your confrontational style that I'm addressing, not your opinion. And it's not just you, but your other comments in this thread also stand out as, frankly, a bit childish.
I haven't given anyone a time out (yet). I'm just asking all of you to chill and be a bit more civil with each other.
great article and I almost got involved in hijacking this thread from talking about it.
I suggest if someone usually gets you upset when you see his/her posts, think about putting then on your ignore list.
I'm almost ready ( not you) to do that. But I decided to try to just refute what I don't agree with and not hijack a thread doing it.
Back to article:
This part ( to me) shows what CVS is all about and why most of those who played for her care for her.
>“To me, it’s never been about just winning games,” Stringer said.
“Do I love basketball? I love it with a passion. I could sit here for five or six hours and just look at tape . . . I also think there’s a reason I do what I do. I think my purpose has been to influence and try to give stature to women.”<
But in this day and age, it's not what you done before, how much you care for your players or the way you conduct yourself and make sure your team is a credit to the University the way that they act.
It's what have you done recently and even if you had fairly good years ( with a season or two not so good) , some of the fanbase won't accept that and demand greatness or want the HC fired.
Sometimes the accusations of having terrible years include 20 win seasons .
I have thought ( without any proof, just my biased opinion) that some RU fans seemed dead set on replacing Vivian for years and used any excuse they could think of.
Others just felt RU could do better and thought the game was passing Vivian by.
I always felt Stringer's coaching kept RUWBB from being like the other major sports and it was her name that got talent to come, not the facilities.
Other programs were giving a pass for not succeeding because of facilities .
CVS' salary was a big issue, but ( my opinion) if Stringer left because she felt shortchanged : RUWBB would have become what those who wanted her gone implied what the program was and RUWBB would have wound up being like the other major sports were considered to be and winning seasons hard to come by.
With new facilities on the horizon, MBB will be better and Vivian will be able to recruit talent without doing it on her name alone.
Also be able to bring in HS talent because they know she really cares for them.
That aid, I believe Vivian Stringer might just stay one more year and retire.
But don't agree so fast : I said the same thing a few years ago and was wrong [roll]
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I think the assistant coaches do a lot of the recruiting. I know the AD doesn't recruit players, but she/he does manage the budget and whether the coach has a job or not. When you lose all of your assistants at once, you are going to have a problem with both recruiting and coaching / developing players. The uncertainty of the head coach's contract situation is also an issue. Playing for CVS is the reason most of these players come to RU. She is a great role model and if I had a daughter, I would be happy to have her play for her. I agree with your opinion that Vivian is a much better defensive coach than offensive coach, but I think she has tried to generate more offense over the past few seasons. This year I think the lack of height is hurting us on both ends of the floor.
Wow. So much utter crap and so little time.
Guess what? Everyone here is entitled to an opinion. That is the point of this exercise, after all. It's great to be critical of each other's opinions, but why the insistence on being critical of someone having one? And all Stringer showed during that whole mess was how much of a camera whore she can be. Sorry, it's really easy to say the right things in that situation. Really easy. It's there on a silver platter and, to her credit, she largely didn't screw it up. But some of the things she said were just plain nonsensical. Again, it's REALLY easy to say the right thing in that situation, as opposed to oh, ripping fans, ripping her superiors, the Chaney BS, whining about not having smoke during introductions (why? to hide the unwatchable teams she had at the time? ... sure, she's a Hall of Fame coach and has achieved beyond what most can dream of, but I don't have to like her. I just don't. And no amount of silliness on here is going to make me change my mind.
And what do you mean it's not the coaching,it's the recruiting??? Isn't that her job? You cannot separate them.
Guess what? Everyone here is entitled to an opinion. That is the point of this exercise, after all. It's great to be critical of each other's opinions, but why the insistence on being critical of someone having one? And all Stringer showed during that whole mess was how much of a camera whore she can be. Sorry, it's really easy to say the right things in that situation. Really easy. It's there on a silver platter and, to her credit, she largely didn't screw it up. But some of the things she said were just plain nonsensical. Again, it's REALLY easy to say the right thing in that situation, as opposed to oh, ripping fans, ripping her superiors, the Chaney BS, whining about not having smoke during introductions (why? to hide the unwatchable teams she had at the time? ... sure, she's a Hall of Fame coach and has achieved beyond what most can dream of, but I don't have to like her. I just don't. And no amount of silliness on here is going to make me change my mind.
And what do you mean it's not the coaching,it's the recruiting??? Isn't that her job? You cannot separate them.
You are correct - recruiting has fallen off and yes, it falls on CVS. That said, there are reasons. Lets consider a few:
- The "Imus Class" was largely a bust and began a decline in the program success. Two players transferred because, in essence, they didn't like the CVS system. One player refused to get into playing shape until she was leaving for the WNBA.
- The lessening of the Rutgers success has ultimately reduced the appeal of coming to the school. Even though for most of the seasons folks like to complain about the record wasn't awful. But, combined with the switch to the B1G, this undoubtedly made RU less attractive.
- I wouldn't say this if CVS didn't say it a few years ago - her name, as a role model, isn't what it used to be, mostly because of the "age gap" I suppose.
- Rutgers has not had the facilities nor can they claim great fan support in recruiting.
- As noted above, the loss of the long time assistants undoubtedly was a factor. As was her uncertain contract status.
- CVS's style doesn't appeal to a certain amount of players (this is nothing new, but combined with the other factors)
- It has been obvious on and off over the recent years that there were some chemistry issues that seem to finally be resolved. This couldn't have helped recruiting either.
I'm sure there are others.
Additionally, folks are correct that her offensive system is a weak point. It has always been what it has been. I don't understand why folks expect it to suddenly change. That said, and this is not original to me, I heard a long discussion with some very notable coaches, about how difficult it is to win in today's game with an emphasis on defense and a so-so offense. It isn't that you can't, but the margin for error is much less than it used to be.
There was a time when Vivian had us contending for a National Championship, and among the top 10 teams in the country. I doubt she can duplicate that again, but I know no sure-fire way to ensure that whoever follows her will have any greater chance. As long as we are generally successful and in the post-season, given all the other factors, you will hear no urging from me that CVS be replaced. Still, like others, I expect CVS will retire in the near future.
Ultimately, you don't have to like her. But accept that some of us do.
Yes you can, in the context of this discussion. Recruiting is certainly part of the head coach's responsibility, but the distinction being drawn here is between the recruiting of players, and the coaching of these players once they arrive. No amount of coaching will overcome the problem of having recruited the wrong players. We've had a problem in recent years of recruiting the wrong players, and that problem started after the final four but got worse when Coach Mitchell - a terrific recruiter - left for a head coaching position. It's the assistant coaches who do most of the recruiting dirty work.
Get off my lawn ... oh, wait ... hi Mr. NCAA. Let me get you some lemonade, invite UNC and TTFP over, and I’ll get off my lawn.
