OSU is a Rugby style tackling team

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I was listening to Urban Meyer during his B1G weekly conference call and he mentioned that OSU adapted the rugby style tackling technique last year. I never heard of it so I researched it and I found this Pete Carroll tape where he teaches it and states that he used it at USC and now with the Seahawks, one of the best defenses in the NFL.

I'm curious if Rutgers uses it because of the connection Flood has with Seahawks DC Dan Quinn.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=25B867C39FE9FF74627125B867C39FE9FF746271

 

[Roy_Faulker]

There was a big series of stories in the dispatch last year about the change in tackling style...interesting stuff

 

[VirtualKnight]

Rutgers does not teach this technique. I asked coach Frazier about it at the HS coaches clinic in April and he said they still teach "Bite the Ball", "Wrap and Roll" and "Sweep the Ankle" as the progression for head up, angle and trail technique tackling.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I was listening to Urban Meyer during his B1G weekly conference call and he mentioned that OSU adapted the rugby style tackling technique last year. I never heard of it so I researched it and I found this Pete Carroll tape where he teaches it and states that he used it at USC and now with the Seahawks, one of the best defenses in the NFL.

I'm curious if Rutgers uses it because of the connection Flood has with Seahawks DC Dan Quinn.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=25B867C39FE9FF74627125B867C39FE9FF746271

thx for this.. this is something I thought should be done sport-wide.. on all levels.

- do not allow anyone, offense or defense, t lead with the head. It is not fair to allow the ball carrier to use the head as a battering ram but punish the defense for doing so.

- insist an effort is made to wrap the ball-carrier.. no shoulder-only "tackles".. those are just hits, not tackles.

 

[ngrant]

and don't rugby kick like the punter for Michigan. If he had played high school football, Michigan might be top five in the country

 

[TheodoreGinnJr]

I recall Ohio State making this change last year, and the improvement in tackling on defense has been tremendous. Much fewer missed tackles

 

[vkj91]

I recall Ohio State making this change last year, and the improvement in tackling on defense has been tremendous. Much fewer missed tackles

tackling has been better but have you really noticed them doing this more? I have watched multiple OSU games this season and I haven't seen a whole lot of wrap and sit. I checked on youtube but most of this season's highlights obviously don't show a lot of open field tackles.

 

[Nosoj]

tackling has been better but have you really noticed them doing this more? I have watched multiple OSU games this season and I haven't seen a whole lot of wrap and sit. I checked on youtube but most of this season's highlights obviously don't show a lot of open field tackles.

I would say that I haven't noticed the technique change too much, but there's been a DRASTIC reduction in missed tackles from 2012-2013 to 2014 and this year. In the end, whether I see the technique or not, I don't really care as long as it's getting results.

 

[saran]

The "rugby tackling" is hype.

What Carrol calls a "rugby tackle" is what I and millions of others were taught in football in HS before players started using their helmet as a hammer. We were always taught to keep our head up to avoid injury and drive with shoulder. I see many players today with their head down and that's dangerous since neck has little compression resistance.

I played rugby in college and rugby didn't "take the head out of tackling" - it was never in.

 

[vkj91]

The "rugby tackling" is hype.

What Carrol calls a "rugby tackle" is what I and millions of others were taught in football in HS before players started using their helmet as a hammer. We were always taught to keep our head up to avoid injury and drive with shoulder. I see many players today with their head down and that's dangerous since neck has little compression resistance.

I played rugby in college and rugby didn't "take the head out of tackling" - it was never in.

you are missing the key difference which is head in front vs head behind. if you were taught in football to put your head behind while tackling you were taught wrong.

 

[vkj91]

I would say that I haven't noticed the technique change too much, but there's been a DRASTIC reduction in missed tackles from 2012-2013 to 2014 and this year. In the end, whether I see the technique or not, I don't really care as long as it's getting results.

agree that results are what mattered. Weren't you young last year? decreased number could simply be the guys are a year older.

 

[Nosoj]

agree that results are what mattered. Weren't you young last year? decreased number could simply be the guys are a year older.

The big difference was 2013 to 2014, and while we were young last year a lot of the guys did play in 2013 or were redshirted so had some time to mature and work on tackling. I think a lot has to do with making an emphasis on form (whatever form they choose to be teaching) and the fact that getting the guy down is the most important part instead of making a big hit.

 

[saran]

you are missing the key difference which is head in front vs head behind. if you were taught in football to put your head behind while tackling you were taught wrong.

That's not actually the "key difference". For awhile now players weren't taught to pick any side but to plant their facemasks/helmets into a runners numbers. The "side" of the helmet is secondary as long as it is a side and not the body. The "rolling hawk" stuff isn't new either.

 

[vkj91]

That's not actually the "key difference". For awhile now players weren't taught to pick any side but to plant their facemasks/helmets into a runners numbers. The "side" of the helmet is secondary as long as it is a side and not the body. The "rolling hawk" stuff isn't new either.

How does one "plant their face mask in into a runners numbers" when they are approaching from the side? Which by the way is where the head in from or behind argument lies.

 

[saran]

How does one "plant their face mask in into a runners numbers" when they are approaching from the side? Which by the way is where the head in from or behind argument lies.

Lots of times (in football) they aren't approaching from the side. Rugby uses a wing with pitches and there's lots of lateral motion, In football (allergic to most lateral running) you're often running straight up the middle which hardly ever happens in rugby. There are no Oklahoma drills in rugby. If you're a DL or LB you were often taught to breakdown and plant your face in runner numbers. When I went to football camp in lat 70s we had a ND coach who taught us to "watch the crotch" of runners when tracking them. Now Carroll just calls that something else. Its not new though. The problem is football players dont practice live anymore but rugby players do. If you're tackling live all week you figures things out. You develop your roll tackle. You cant run around in shorts and helmets all week and think you're still playing football despite no contact. There is no pretend in rugby practice

 

[vkj91]

Lots of times (in football) they aren't approaching from the side. Rugby uses a wing with pitches and there's lots of lateral motion, In football (allergic to most lateral running) you're often running straight up the middle which hardly ever happens in rugby. There are no Oklahoma drills in rugby. If you're a DL or LB you were often taught to breakdown and plant your face in runner numbers. When I went to football camp in lat 70s we had a ND coach who taught us to "watch the crotch" of runners when tracking them. Now Carroll just calls that something else. Its not new though. The problem is football players dont practice live anymore but rugby players do. If you're tackling live all week you figures things out. You develop your roll tackle. You cant run around in shorts and helmets all week and think you're still playing football despite no contact. There is no pretend in rugby practice

honestly, based on this post I don't think you are following the narrative we are discussing.

 

[kupuna133]

honestly, based on this post I don't think you are following the narrative we are discussing.

I think what saran is saying is correct. Can't teach tackling and form without contact or application of technique. I guess I was always taught as a DB to make "rugby" style tackles. Get the head across and wrap. To not go for the knockout tackle but the sure tackle considering db's are the last line of defense. What's old is new again is what saran is saying.

 

[PhDKnight]

In football you put your head across your opponents body to tackle. In rugby if you did that someone would get paralyzed every game, so you put your head to the side of your opponents body.

 

[kupuna133]

In football you put your head across your opponents body to tackle. In rugby if you did that someone would get paralyzed every game, so you put your head to the side of your opponents body.

Not sure if you read the article or watched the video but the technique I was taught is the exact thing they are talking about, Rugby Technique. Getting your head across is nothing more than not leading with your head and making contact with the shoulder. (hawk technique) Just a change in terminology. Good to see that they are getting away from the knockout punch style of tackling and teaching a more of a physical wrap technique.

 

[vkj91]

I think what saran is saying is correct. Can't teach tackling and form without contact or application of technique. I guess I was always taught as a DB to make "rugby" style tackles. Get the head across and wrap. To not go for the knockout tackle but the sure tackle considering db's are the last line of defense. What's old is new again is what saran is saying.

That's the point you guys are missing. "Get the head across and wrap IS NOT rugby style tackling. Rugby is get the head behind and sit down.

 

[kupuna133]

That's the point you guys are missing. "Get the head across and wrap IS NOT rugby style tackling. Rugby is get the head behind and sit down.

Then what Pete Carrol is teaching in that video is not rugby tackling. I used his words not mine to define Rugby Tackling

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

I recall Ohio State making this change last year, and the improvement in tackling on defense has been tremendous. Much fewer missed tackles

Ted Ginn.....being in in Columbus, I also remember the complaints about OSU tackling and noticed a lot of missed tackles in the locally televised OSU games I watched.....I have not heard any complaints in a few years. Urban Meyer commented that the results have been amazing....that's not a bad endorsement for college to go along with Pete Carroll at the PRO level.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

That's the point you guys are missing. "Get the head across and wrap IS NOT rugby style tackling. Rugby is get the head behind and sit down.

agree.....I watched the Pete Carroll tape and that is what I saw in both the rugby highlights and the Seahawk highlights.

 

[rudad02]

As someone said what's old is new again. I tackled with the shoulder & wrapping the arms in HS in the late 50's & college in the early 60's. It's the way it was done.

 

[RU76COOK]

The big difference was 2013 to 2014, and while we were young last year a lot of the guys did play in 2013 or were redshirted so had some time to mature and work on tackling. I think a lot has to do with making an emphasis on form (whatever form they choose to be teaching) and the fact that getting the guy down is the most important part INSTEAD OF MAKING A BIG HIT.

and there you have one of Rutger's biggest defensive problems.

 

[saran]

Then what Pete Carrol is teaching in that video is not rugby tackling. I used his words not mine to define Rugby Tackling

Yes..there are people in this thread who have only tackled their pillow and are lost watching the video.

I looked up this Carroll/rugby stuff and Seahawk site confirm what I said - they are teaching old techniques and using rugby gimmick as a way to provoke interest. They made video to get the head out of tackling. They confess their past tactics were wrong,


Rocky Seto, the Seahawks’ assistant head coach has worked with Carroll since 2001. He said:

"If you’re high school coach or a Pop Warner coach, it’s a new game. When I was playing and even coaching early, I was taught to get my head across a tackle, or see what I hit, which in effect put my head in the line of fire. It has worked beautifully in terms of getting guys down, but now we know better.”

Exactly - football tackling coaching was getting screwed up. Carroll describes how they went back to basics:

"We just feel like it’s important for the game,” Carroll said. “We’re trying to always help out, in particular in keeping the game safe. We’ve been doing something for a long time that we had never really shared before. It was something we had learned, just through ball—it’s an OLD STYLE CONCEPT of tackling. When we connected it with rugby, it made it even more fun to grow with it."


There you are...they went back to old basics and tried to make it sexier with the rugby frosting, There is NOTHING NEW for football in what the video shows. Its just dusting off what was forgotten. The main purpose of Carrols video (which is meant for schools etc) is to get the head-leading out of tackling- to reduce helmet to helmet tackling and yes bring the shoulder back. The hip stuff is secondary

" Rugby players have done a tremendous job at taking the head out of the tackle in their game, and they truly exemplify shoulder tackling.”



Seahawks Tackling Video To Change The Game
http://www.seahawks.com/news/2015/06/11/seahawks-tackling-video-change-game

 

[kupuna133]

Yes..there are people in this thread who have only tackled their pillow and are lost watching the video.

I looked up this Carroll/rugby stuff and Seahawk site confirm what I said - they are teaching old techniques and using rugby gimmick as a way to provoke interest. They made video to get the head out of tackling. They confess their past tactics were wrong,


Rocky Seto, the Seahawks’ assistant head coach has worked with Carroll since 2001. He said:

"If you’re high school coach or a Pop Warner coach, it’s a new game. When I was playing and even coaching early, I was taught to get my head across a tackle, or see what I hit, which in effect put my head in the line of fire. It has worked beautifully in terms of getting guys down, but now we know better.”

Exactly - football tackling coaching was getting screwed up. Carroll describes how they went back to basics:

"We just feel like it’s important for the game,” Carroll said. “We’re trying to always help out, in particular in keeping the game safe. We’ve been doing something for a long time that we had never really shared before. It was something we had learned, just through ball—it’s an OLD STYLE CONCEPT of tackling. When we connected it with rugby, it made it even more fun to grow with it."


There you are...they went back to old basics and tried to make it sexier with the rugby frosting, There is NOTHING NEW for football in what the video shows. Its just dusting off what was forgotten. The main purpose of Carrols video (which is meant for schools etc) is to get the head-leading out of tackling- to reduce helmet to helmet tackling and yes bring the shoulder back. The hip stuff is secondary

" Rugby players have done a tremendous job at taking the head out of the tackle in their game, and they truly exemplify shoulder tackling.



Seahawks Tackling Video To Change The Game
http://www.seahawks.com/news/2015/06/11/seahawks-tackling-video-change-game

That was my impression as well. Going back to old techniques with new name. The tackling drills demonstrated in the video were the exact ones my coaches used to teach technique. What's old is new again with a new name.

 

[Spartanfan87]

MSU has been teaching this style of tackling as well. Mark Dantonio adopted it after watching a Pete Carroll video about it.
Mixed opinions. I am sure it may be safer ( although new reports out of England show that Rugby players probably are getting concussed as well, they just aren't screening for it). The trade off to safer is MSU does seem to have missed more open field tackles this year then any other. Could be new technique could be personnel, time will tell

 

[billhobo]

I wish I had the Carroll tackling video. I bought a box saying it contained such a DVD, but the DVD in my box was on his technique for skirting sanctions for NCAA rules violations.