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OT: Voting by mail (oh well, political)

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Without an investigation how would you know?

If there was the slightest evidence of the Russians getting info and Trump receiving benefit in return and the election affected . Sure.

But we should not go through an investigation without that, there would be no basis for it to start

The grounds for investigation are not sufficient
 
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So if China calls Biden's aides and says it has Donnie's tax returns, they should listen?

Tell them to call the N.Y. Times and CNN and Fox instead.

unlike the corrupt Lying Donnie who actively initiates requests to foreign countries for info on Biden and attempts extortion to get it {Ukraine}. The Trumpanzees live in a fake news fantasy world.
 
If there was the slightest evidence of the Russians getting info and Trump receiving benefit in return and the election affected . Sure.

But we should not go through an investigation without that, there would be no basis for it to start

The grounds for investigation are not sufficient

When do you think it’s acceptable for Americans to work with and give information to hostile foreign Intelligence agencies? And who gets to decide what information is acceptable to share? Should they call you? “Hey, wheezer, it’s Paul. I’m here with Vlad from Moscow. Yeah, the intel guy, that right. Need a read on these documents I’m gonna show him.“. That how you think it should work?
 
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Just saying information exchanged is weak imo.

And if you are going to do that you'd email it, hand over a USB key.. you wouldn't merely discuss it.

And Trump FIRED Manafort over his Russian connections and his undisclosed work overseas (Ukraine). Kushner and Trump saw what pro-Russian stuff Manafort worked into the platform and FIRED HIM. That's kinda like the OPPOSITE of collusion on Trump's part. I never had any doubt Manafort was working his own deals.

Trump shouldn't have hired Manafort.. shouldn't have fallen for his BS and booted Lewandowski.. though if he hadn't done that he wouldn't have ended up with the team that got him the win.
 
Jeff Van Drew wrote a spot on letter to Czar Murphy which sums it all up. Unfortunately Murphy will do whatever he wants because thats what he does.


September 7, 2020 Governor Phil Murphy Office of Governor PO Box 001 Trenton, NJ 08625 Dear Governor Murphy, The integrity of our elections in New Jersey is at stake based on your decision to force a vote-by- mail election this year. We must also allow in-person voting so that every citizen feels their vote is verified. Everyone should have the choice to vote by mail or safely in-person. Fair elections are paramount to a free society, and our constituents are requesting the option of exercising the fundamental right of voting in-person. We have faith in the ability of our constituents to safely vote by the means that they, not you, decide. If someone feels unsafe or concerned about voting in-person, they should always have the option of voting by mail. We also have numerous constituents who will volunteer their time and energy to ensure safety measures are enacted to keep their neighbors safe. The health and well-being of every individual is a serious and valid concern, but your varied and differing approach has left many, including me, wondering about a few glaring double standards: 1. Is ordering a lunch on a touchscreen at the local store scientifically safer than the basic right of non-provisionally voting at a polling place on a touchscreen? 2. Is waiting in a line with hundreds of people at an MVC location which you opened safer than voting in-person? 3. Is the fundamental 1st Amendment right of protesting more protected or safer than voting in -person? A voting operation that is completely by mail will be fraught with issues. Not only are there delays in mail delivery – which could delay election results for weeks – there are numerous examples of fraud and manipulation. Voter rolls must be sanitized, and we must ensure that ballots are sent to voters where they are living; not to an old registration address, to a deceased individual, or to someone who no longer lives in the state. We must have faith in our system—and while relatively rare, instances of election malfeasance do exist in New Jersey and they must be used to inform our decisions. In New Jersey alone, since 2009 there have been: • At least ten instances of fraudulent use of absentee ballots. • At least two instances of false registrations. • An election overturned and re-held. • Ten percent of ballots cast in all Vote-by-Mail May 2020 Primary election rejected. • This year in Patterson, NJ, four City Council candidates were found to have manipulated an election and are currently facing charges for that allegedl misconduct. I have faith in our communities to safely make the choice that is right for them, and we can do both in-person and vote by mail this November. We must ensure the integrity of our elections. Please allow for safe and secure in-person voting. Sincerely, Jeff Van Drew Member of Congress

Van Drew's essential premise is incorrect. Voting in-person is NOT a fundamental right. Voting is a fundamental right. However, we do not have the unlimited right to determine the mode in which our votes are cast. I would like to vote on-line. I can't. That's not the way we do it. So I will vote the way we do it.

Van Drew is suggesting that this year, we do both in-person and vote-by-mail. I don't see how that would work. It would make it too easy to vote twice. Oh that's right, Trump said that was OK. And Van Drew has sworn undying fealty to Trump.

As an aside: Jeff, you of all people should know how to spell Paterson (one "t", not two). You went to school there - Paterson Catholic. I was your classmate. Yeah, I know that you are trying to hide your North Jersey urban past. Don't worry. Your secret is safe with me!
 
Van Drew's essential premise is incorrect. Voting in-person is NOT a fundamental right. Voting is a fundamental right. However, we do not have the unlimited right to determine the mode in which our votes are cast. I would like to vote on-line. I can't. That's not the way we do it. So I will vote the way we do it.

Van Drew is suggesting that this year, we do both in-person and vote-by-mail. I don't see how that would work. It would make it too easy to vote twice. Oh that's right, Trump said that was OK. And Van Drew has sworn undying fealty to Trump.

As an aside: Jeff, you of all people should know how to spell Paterson (one "t", not two). You went to school there - Paterson Catholic. I was your classmate. Yeah, I know that you are trying to hide your North Jersey urban past. Don't worry. Your secret is safe with me!

what year did you graduate PC?
 
Van Drew's essential premise is incorrect. Voting in-person is NOT a fundamental right. Voting is a fundamental right. However, we do not have the unlimited right to determine the mode in which our votes are cast. I would like to vote on-line. I can't. That's not the way we do it. So I will vote the way we do it.

Van Drew is suggesting that this year, we do both in-person and vote-by-mail. I don't see how that would work. It would make it too easy to vote twice. Oh that's right, Trump said that was OK. And Van Drew has sworn undying fealty to Trump.

As an aside: Jeff, you of all people should know how to spell Paterson (one "t", not two). You went to school there - Paterson Catholic. I was your classmate. Yeah, I know that you are trying to hide your North Jersey urban past. Don't worry. Your secret is safe with me!
That in-person voting is by provisional ballot is disturbing. It shows a design to have humans involved in deciding what to count and what not to count in all phases.

The fix is in.

We'll see how many upsets of GOP candidates happen with this plan. Other states have found ways to upset reliable GOP seats after election day came and went.. this is just more of that.

We don't have a right to decide what mode our vote is cast? Who does.. only Governor Murphy and the Dem majority? Tradition be damned.. is that it?
 
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Take it up wIt’s the Republican led Senate investigation that identified Manafort worked with Russian intelligence. Or bury your head further in the sand to justify your remarkably stupid position.
The bottom line is the investigation was NEVER justified properly and is already proven to have been a political witch hunt.

Your efforts to justify it after-the-fact with this Manafort stuff, that was not even used against Manafort himself as having committed any crime... it is just weak sauce for the progressives to gobble up and spit out again and again.
 
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The bottom line is the investigation was NEVER justified properly and is already proven to have been a political witch hunt.

Your efforts to justify it after-the-fact with this Manafort stuff, that was not even used against Manafort himself as having committed any crime... it is just weak sauce for the progressives to gobble up and spit out again and again.

Like I said, I’ll base my position on what the bipartisan Senate committee had to say. Your post is all your opinion without any substantive backing.
 
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We don't have a right to decide what mode our vote is cast? Who does.. only Governor Murphy and the Dem majority? Tradition be damned.. is that it?
This statement blows my mind.
Gerrymandering across the country by the GOP has created a vast majority of states with Republican majority state legislatures calling the shots on a multitude of issues you could say are steeped in tradition.
Along with that, if your issue is just with governors and executive branches making changes unilaterally, uh, have you been paying attention to 45's hypocrisy when it comes to executive orders?
 
Van Drew is suggesting that this year, we do both in-person and vote-by-mail. I don't see how that would work.

It would work like every other election we have had where people can request absentee ballots and vote by mail.

Did you mean you REFUSE to see how it could work?
 
This statement blows my mind.
Gerrymandering across the country by the GOP has created a vast majority of states with Republican majority state legislatures calling the shots on a multitude of issues you could say are steeped in tradition.
Along with that, if your issue is just with governors and executive branches making changes unilaterally, uh, have you been paying attention to 45's hypocrisy when it comes to executive orders?
You do realize that Elbridge Gerry was a Democrat...right?

Both parties gerrymander... you are only upset about it when GOPers do it.

Same for executive orders.. Obama sets records for breadth and scope and number of executive orders but you have problems when Trump makes some.

It takes a fool to see all these mail-in ballot rules and ballot harvesting rules being pushed in all the blue states and NOT see it as a risk to the election. A useful fool.
 
Like I said, I’ll base my position on what the bipartisan Senate committee had to say. Your post is all your opinion without any substantive backing.
except the facts.. I have the facts.. you have.. what you BELIEVE.. what others BELEIVE... what they said in a report they BELEIVE.. and none of them said they BELEIVE Trump was colluding.. only Manafort.. and they BELEIVE there was this conspiracy.. and then let it drop.. never charge Manafort with it.. but allow you and others to keep claiming what they BELEIVE to be true.

No coincidence that the same thing happened in the Ukraine impeachment BS.. witness after witness said they BELIEVE.. in their OPINION.. but none of them could identify a crime that was committed. But they were good for headlines.. right?

You all should be ashamed of yourselves, flipping American jurisprudence on hits head. Insisting people prove themselves innocent or be branded as guilty.
 
You do realize that Elbridge Gerry was a Democrat...right?

Both parties gerrymander... you are only upset about it when GOPers do it.

Same for executive orders.. Obama sets records for breadth and scope and number of executive orders but you have problems when Trump makes some.

It takes a fool to see all these mail-in ballot rules and ballot harvesting rules being pushed in all the blue states and NOT see it as a risk to the election. A useful fool.
Gerrymandering should be unconstitutional no matter who does it

And who cares what blue States do since it is 10 swing states we need to follow

Hopefully everyone can vote by mail or without an excessive wait
 
That in-person voting is by provisional ballot is disturbing. It shows a design to have humans involved in deciding what to count and what not to count in all phases.
How is that any different than normal? Humans are involved in deciding whether or not to allow someone behind the curtain to vote on a machine. This is no different.
 
Same for executive orders.. Obama sets records for breadth and scope and number of executive orders but you have problems when Trump makes some.
Again, you actually are making me LOL. Please. Are you really going with the right wing media pushed total for Obama over EIGHT years vs. 45's 3+ year total? Your boy is doing fine keeping pace (along with his golfing, too, with the added bonus of enriching himself).
Yes, both parties are guilty of gerrymandering via sometimes veto proof state legislative majorities and liberal use of executive powers. But your partisan branding of Murphy as somehow unique screams hypocrisy. If you haven't noticed, there's a pandemic going on that many feel mail in voting is a perfectly reasonable response to. See 45's plummeting numbers among seniors in FL? I'm sure they are voting by mail as usual.
But you folks see conspiracies behind every rock...OR, maybe you are starting to see the beating he's going to take and you also want to be able to cry foul to help justify the squatter dictator (and enabling AG already spouting voting b.s. to fuel the fire) you always dreamed of so you are taking up 45's bogus pre-emptive excuse.
No, President Obama did not govern by Executive Order
 
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This statement blows my mind.
Gerrymandering across the country by the GOP has created a vast majority of states with Republican majority state legislatures calling the shots on a multitude of issues you could say are steeped in tradition.
Along with that, if your issue is just with governors and executive branches making changes unilaterally, uh, have you been paying attention to 45's hypocrisy when it comes to executive orders?

I'm sorry you feel that way.
It sucks TBY
 
Gerrymandering should be unconstitutional no matter who does it

And who cares what blue States do since it is 10 swing states we need to follow

Hopefully everyone can vote by mail or without an excessive wait
well when the blue states provide another popular vote victory for the Dem then they will #REVOLT and insist there is a real problem.. stamp their feet.. have their brownshirt minions in the streets looting and rioting.. and Pelosi will declare the electoral college has no power because the election has not been decided.. thus giving her presidential powers.. she'll claim.. until a president can be "elected".

There is already an effort to get state government to all mandate that their electors will all go to whoever wins the popular vote. Talk about the disenfranchisement of voters.. all they need to do this is enough control of a state to get an executive order and a law passed.

can you imagine if Trump was allowed to win the popular vote as well as the 270 electors?

Even if they cannot win the swing states the Dems have reason to cheat in New Jersey and elsewhere.. for control of the Senate and House.
 
You have no fac
except the facts.. I have the facts.. you have.. what you BELIEVE.. what others BELEIVE... what they said in a report they BELEIVE.. and none of them said they BELEIVE Trump was colluding.. only Manafort.. and they BELEIVE there was this conspiracy.. and then let it drop.. never charge Manafort with it.. but allow you and others to keep claiming what they BELEIVE to be true.

No coincidence that the same thing happened in the Ukraine impeachment BS.. witness after witness said they BELIEVE.. in their OPINION.. but none of them could identify a crime that was committed. But they were good for headlines.. right?

You all should be ashamed of yourselves, flipping American jurisprudence on hits head. Insisting people prove themselves innocent or be branded as guilty.

you have no facts. You actually have it exactly opposite.

take it up with the Senate intel report. That’s where the facts are from, based on their bipartisan investigation.

you are the one who should be ashamed, ashamed for selling out to support someone like Trump.. disgusting.
 
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If there was the slightest evidence of the Russians getting info and Trump receiving benefit in return and the election affected . Sure.

But we should not go through an investigation without that, there would be no basis for it to start

The grounds for investigation are not sufficient

With all due respect, IG Horowitz found the grounds sufficient, and I believe he has more background than you on the subject.
 
Hunterdon County ballots were all sent out as of early this week. I got mine Wed. Many secure drop boxes around the county that will be under continuous surveillance with daily pickup if you'd prefer that to mail - your choice. Lucky to have one within a mile of my house.
 
You have no fac


you have no facts. You actually have it exactly opposite.

take it up with the Senate intel report. That’s where the facts are from, based on their bipartisan investigation.

you are the one who should be ashamed, ashamed for selling out to support someone like Trump.. disgusting.

we do have many poor misguided fools on this board.
Dictator Trump “I love the uneducated “.
 
One more thought on the NJ voting process; If you choose to deposit your ballot in a Dropbox, you should do so within your own county. If you deposit your ballot in a Dropbox in another county, that County Clerk is responsible for getting it to your County Clerk, but they get to choose how they do it. They could just drop it in a US mailbox, which kind of defeats the purpose.
 
Well it seems like the vote by mail idea is starting out well....

 
I'm interested in seeing what the participation rate is going to be this year. The US usually has one of the lowest rates in the world and hopefully this increases it as voting is one of the most important things any citizen can do.
 
I'm interested in seeing what the participation rate is going to be this year. The US usually has one of the lowest rates in the world and hopefully this increases it as voting is one of the most important things any citizen can do.
In many places in the world, it’s mandatory that you vote. Like Australia for example.
 
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