recruiting and stars matter, Alabama proves it

[withoutregard]

according to rivals rankings bama has been 1st in 2012, 1st in 2013, 1st in 2014 and oh they slipped to 2nd in 2015.
When you recruit like that it allows you to miss on kids, it allows you to truly live by "next up" when injuries hit and it creates a level of competition on your own team, 24/7, year over year, that creates results like we saw last night.
I'm not saying Rutgers will ever recruit like them, few if any will, but they need to be a perennial top 20 recruiting school to even sniff getting to the final four

 

[RC1978]

Correct!

Someone tweeted last night "Saban is the best by far" or something like that. Not taking anything away from him but when you have three 5 star and one 4 star d lineman you can rush 4 all night long.
I alway wonder what Saban or coach K would do with avg 2 and 3 star players.

 

[RU4Real]

Minkah Fitzpatrick is pretty damn good for a true freshman.

 

[ILOVERUTGERS]

Bama is the 33rd NFL team. Saban recruits the elite of the elite

 

[LotusAggressor]

Saban is also a great defensive coach who learned from Bill Belichick, one of the best coaches ever. He hires and develops excellent assistant coaches. Alabama also develops talent to play in their defensive system, which is complex and not easy to learn. What makes Alabama great is that they turn all those high recruiting rankings into winning production on the field. That takes coaching and development.

 

[saran]

For almost a decade FSU was top recruiting team and still managed to lose 3-5 games a year. Top recruits are important but Bama has good coaching and a top football culture. FSU was/is closer to Miami than Bama.

 

[kapyoche]

CFB is one of the biggest scam that man has ever created. Alabama and OSU are professional teams masquerading as a college teams. We could compete with MSU but still can't get within 40 points of OSU.

I just saw McShay's rankings of college players showing that OSU has seven potential first round picks. Alabama probably has even more.

 

[JQRU91]

Correct!

Someone tweeted last night "Saban is the best by far" or something like that. Not taking anything away from him but when you have three 5 star and one 4 star d lineman you can rush 4 all night long.
I alway wonder what Saban or coach K would do with avg 2 and 3 star players.

Saban and Coach K would do just fine with 2 and 3 star players. Before Saban became "Nick Saban" and Krzyzewski became "Coach K," they were nobodies just like everyone else. They had to earn their way to get to where they are now. I'm sure they could do it again if they had to.

 

[koleszar]

It's basically a football machine now. Recruit the top players every year(anyway you can get them) by a wide margin over a five year period. You have the money to replace outgoing coaches with probably whomever you want. If a player doesn't preform they are either made to transfer(yes it's true) or put on athletically unable to preform scholarship. It's basically a farm system for the NFL. Am I jealous hell yes, will we ever compete with that hell no.

 

[saran]

CFB is one of the biggest scam that man has ever created. Alabama and OSU are professional teams masquerading as a college teams. We could compete with MSU but still can't get within 40 points of OSU.

I just saw McShay's rankings of college players showing that OSU has seven potential first round picks. Alabama probably has even more.

That's all true. I also keep in mind cfb was big way before the NFL was

 

[lighty]

I'd imagine Saban worked with 2 and 3 star recruits when he was the head coach at Michigan State. He wasn't dominating then, although he left after a very good season.

6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6
9-2

34-24-1 at Michigan State

 

[koleszar]

Saban and Coach K would do just fine with 2 and 3 star players. Before Saban became "Nick Saban" and Krzyzewski became "Coach K," they were nobodies just like everyone else. They had to earn there way to get to where they are now. I'm sure they could do it again if they had to.

Well he sure as hell didn't win like this at Michigan St. and at LSU he had that national championship 13-1 but the other years he was 8-4, 10-3, 8-5,9-3. He won at those other schools but not at this rate with now having a roster filled with the 4 and 5 star kids.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Also need player development, discipline and retention. But yeah it helps to recruit like Bama.

 

[JQRU91]

Well he sure as hell didn't win like this at Michigan St. and at LSU he had that national championship 13-1 but the other years he was 8-4, 10-3, 8-5,9-3. He won at those other schools but not at this rate with now having a roster filled with the 4 and 5 star kids.

True, but perhaps his years at Michigan St. were ones where he was learning to become the coach he is today? I'm not saying that they would get the same results with 2 and 3 stars. I'm saying they could probably take a program with 2 and 3 stars and build it up from there if they had to.

 

[RUGT]

Except there are a lot more examples of teams with a lot of talent who underperform that you are conveniently ignoring. Recruiting is important but highly overrated relative to coaching.

 

[j10oreo]

Stars matter, yes, but Saban has a terrific coaching staff. How many years have the likes of Michigan and ND rake in top5-15 classes and had a terrible year?

 

[RU31trap]

A coach is only as good as the athletes he recruits. A thoroughbred trainer is only as good as the horses in his stable. Great companies are only as good as their workforce they hire etc etc etc. What makes a coach great is a host of different things.

 

[withoutregard]

A coach is only as good as the athletes he recruits. A horse trainer is only as good as the horses in his stable. Great companies are only as good as their workforce etc etc etc. What makes a coach great is a host of different things.

This!

 

[JQRU91]

A coach is only as good as the athletes he recruits. A horse trainer is only as good as the horses in his stable. Great companies are only as good as their workforce etc etc etc. What makes a coach great is a host of different things.

Absolutely. The talent of a team's players determine that team's ceiling. A good coach will bring the team to achieve close to their ceiling. A bad coach will have the team stuck in the basement.

 

[GSGS]

Except there are a lot more examples of teams with a lot of talent who underperform that you are conveniently ignoring. Recruiting is important but highly overrated relative to coaching.

I think to win big you really need both, the athletes and the coaching/development. To your point about teams who struggle despite stellar recruiting classes, Texas has to be Exhibit I.

 

[koleszar]

True, but perhaps his years at Michigan St. were ones where he was learning to become the coach he is today? I'm not saying that they would get the same results with 2 and 3 stars. I'm saying they could probably take a program with 2 and 3 stars and build it up from there if they had to.

Very true, and there is another side to this. Look at Brady Hoke recruited great but his teams sucked. Left Harbaugh with a stocked cupboard and he won right off the bat. So yes it's also coaching not just kids especially in college. Another example would be Peterson at Boise St. 2 and 3 star players and he took them farther then their stars. Although they really did have easy schedules but they still beat high ranked teams in their bowl games.

 

[RUJMM78]

CFB is one of the biggest scam that man has ever created. Alabama and OSU are professional teams masquerading as a college teams. We could compete with MSU but still can't get within 40 points of OSU.

I just saw McShay's rankings of college players showing that OSU has seven potential first round picks. Alabama probably has even more.

The biggest scam is Kentucky mens basketball where the one and done player is glorified and there are no sanctions for the low graduation rates.

 

[Chicago_Glenn]

Absolutely. The talent of a team's players determine that team's ceiling. A good coach will bring the team to achieve close to their ceiling. A bad coach will have the team stuck in the basement.

Agree. Look at ND. Consistently highly ranked recruiting classes and there was a period where they were consistently underperforming and churning coaches. That's the coaching. A great coach can't turn a team into a great team without talent but they can make a mediocre play better than their potential. On the flip side a bad coach can make a team play worse than their potential. So they do make a difference.

Hoping Ash can initially make us play better and then get the talent to support us getting much better.

-CG

 

[RU Cheese]

They both matter. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Think of it as the product of player talent * coaching skills. Need both to be great, but huge shortfall in either kills you.