Road woes; Slow starts. Why?

[goru7]

It is a little hard to believe we have won 1 road game at Penn State in the 4 years in the Big 10. Maybe we have played 5-6 decent games in Total. It has not just been an Eddie problem , but also a Pikiell problem as well. I know Coach at the court club meeting and at post game pressers have hammered home this is the toughest league in the country especially trying to win on the road, but this is beyond baffling . I asked Coach about the slow starts , both at home, and especially on the road, at the last meeting , and he answered something about missing layups early and it snowballs. There were not many solutions. You check out the scores every night in any league, bigger or smaller conference and even the mediocre teams wins multiple road games. The court and baskets are the same, and our conference arenas are larger, but we always start out slow, increase our number of turnovers and dig our selves a hole. We shoot poorly in general, home or away , so that doesn’t totally explain it.
The only thing I might have noticed is that normally Corey defers for the first 5-6 minutes, settling up the offense, trying to get the ball to Deshawn or Issa, and then he looks to score thereafter. This doesn’t happen every road game but more often than not. Wondering if Coach tries to get them out running early , sacrificing transition defense miscues , to try to let the players see the ball go through the basket more easily on the break, and maybe we settle in better. Just totally guessing here but it has not improved as seasons have gone on and that is even more troubling. Now next year we have 3-4 true road games in the out of conference that will prepare us better hopefully, but the 22 game home schedule with the entire non conference at home has not helped but we didn’t play 22 home games in the past and it has been a longstanding problem going back years.
Anybody got any thoughts and better yet any solutions?

 

[Russ Wood]

What equals a slow start ? I ask because after ten minutes it was a close game at Minnesota, Michigan and Penn State. Like within 3 points I think

 

[ChasRC69]

It is a little hard to believe we have won 1 road game at Penn State in the 4 years in the Big 10. Maybe we have played 5-6 decent games in Total. It has not just been an Eddie problem , but also a Pikiell problem as well. I know Coach at the court club meeting and at post game pressers have hammered home this is the toughest league in the country especially trying to win on the road, but this is beyond baffling . I asked Coach about the slow starts , both at home, and especially on the road, at the last meeting , and he answered something about missing layups early and it snowballs. There were not many solutions. You check out the scores every night in any league, bigger or smaller conference and even the mediocre teams wins multiple road games. The court and baskets are the same, and our conference arenas are larger, but we always start out slow, increase our number of turnovers and dig our selves a hole. We shoot poorly in general, home or away , so that doesn’t totally explain it.
The only thing I might have noticed is that normally Corey defers for the first 5-6 minutes, settling up the offense, trying to get the ball to Deshawn or Issa, and then he looks to score thereafter. This doesn’t happen every road game but more often than not. Wondering if Coach tries to get them out running early , sacrificing transition defense miscues , to try to let the players see the ball go through the basket more easily on the break, and maybe we settle in better. Just totally guessing here but it has not improved as seasons have gone on and that is even more troubling. Now next year we have 3-4 true road games in the out of conference that will prepare us better hopefully, but the 22 game home schedule with the entire non conference at home has not helped but we didn’t play 22 home games in the past and it has been a longstanding problem going back years.
Anybody got any thoughts and better yet any solutions?

We haven't won many conference games at home so it's not surprising that we have trouble on the road in arenas with hostile crowds. IMO, one of the reasons that we have slow starts anywhere is that we start the game playing 4 against 5 on offense. Instead of having Doucore start at center, I'd rather try a couple of minutes with Eugene and Freeman playing the 4 and 5. I came to this conclusion after the last game when we began the second half with the same starters who had a slow start in the first. I didn't think Doucore should be out there. During Maryland's 10-0 run to start the 2nd, Douc had a rebound go right through both hands to the floor. This resulted in a tie-up rather than a clean rebound. Also during the run, he received a pass down low, and instead of going straight up with it, he put the ball on the floor and had it stolen.

Given the improvement of Eugene and Issa from last year to this, I feel confident that Doucore will be much better next year. However, this year, I think he's overmatched against everyone he faces. Unfortunately, neither Shaq nor Candido are offensive threats either, so why not start either the game or one half without a true center to see what happens offensively. Of course, when we play against a team with a center like Haas, we can't stay undersized on defense too long.

 

[goru7]

What equals a slow start ? I ask because after ten minutes it was a close game at Minnesota, Michigan and Penn State. Like within 3 points I think

Yeah, you might be right in those three games but more than likely we were down 10 and went on a run to get it to three. Other games more recently, Nebraska 21-4 and Maryland 17-4 have resulted in us battling back but the early hole is too much to overcome.

 

[RUChoppin]

What equals a slow start ? I ask because after ten minutes it was a close game at Minnesota, Michigan and Penn State. Like within 3 points I think

I'd say a slow start is not being able to get points on the board early on in the game. Looking back at our B1G matchups (and SHU and FSU), here's how long it took break 10 pts in each game (wins in bold):

@Michigan - 14:41
Ohio St - 13:40
Indiana - 13:29
@Maryland -12:53
@MSU - 12:52
@PA St - 10:52
@Purdue - 10:51
@Nebraska - 9:52
@Illinois - 9:48
Purdue - 9:22
Northwestern - 9:02
FSU - 8:16
SHU - 8:10
Wisc - 7:49
Nebraska - 6:43
Iowa - 5:28
MSU - 6:40
@Minnesota - 6:40

The only road game where we've scored more than 10 points in the first 9:30 of the game was @Minnesota, which was our first conference game of the season.

We really have a hard time getting our offense going early on in games.... when we're lucky, the defense is strong early and we're only in a small hole. When the defense also struggles, we find ourselves in double digit holes mid-way through the first half.

 

[RUJMM78]

The lack of shooters/scorers really hampers Rutgers on the road because there is so little fan support at those games.The stigma of losing on the road clearly has impacted the mindset of the Rutgers players ,ie,there is lacking confidence when they step on the court.

All head coaches talk about the league competition they face.I'm pretty sure ACC coaches to just name one league think that they play in the toughest conference.

 

[PatrickRU92]

too few offensive options.

 

[rudad02]

Can't figure the slow starts. They're killers.

 

[Vegas pj]

Road woes = tradition. :chairshot:

 

[RUich]

Let's face it, we are not a very good team. Thus, the ways in which we play/lose have a multitude of pieces that help make up the puzzle. We have seen some very good teams come out cold and still get their act together well enough to still beat us. Why? Because we are just not skilled enough to take advantage of the chances being handed to us. Keeping a game close because the other team is struggling and so are we is not a recipe for success. Meanwhile, the opposite was clearly in view the last game with us getting just 19pts in the first half and the Terps easily rolling along. When opportunity knocks, you have to grab it.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

This is a home court conference....I seriously doubt you'll find teams better than 3-6 win loss split on the road over a long history of the conference....

It's really that simple....once you get past the NCAA caliber teams, my guess is you are closer to 3-6, 2-7 or 1-8 on the road most seasons....and probably mid level, NIT teams are 6-3 to 7-2 at home most years....this is not a RU item as much as it's a B1G having mostly on campus arenas and in almost all the cases, significantly home court advantages.....There no free lunch like past years when you went to USF, DePaul and at time Seton Hall, a local team without a significant home court crowd most nights of 10-15K.

RU could finish last in the conference and finish 4-5 at home this season....the difference between winning at home and on the road in conference, is gigantic in stature, in this league, it's probably worth 10 or more points.....We defeated Wisconsin at home under Eddie Jordan, when they were ranked high (yes without Frank Kaminsky).....Purdue is Top 15 and barely escaped the RAC...Michigan State struggled here....it's not like you snap your fingers with a couple of players and generate 3-4 road wins....

 

[bac2therac]

this team starts just as slow at home but its often able to overcome it because they are at home...see SHU up 28-14...Purdue was up 14. RU was blown out from the get go by Indiana and OSU and didnt come back..much like the road games. Its just how they are, they take a bit of time to get going but no doubt the slow starts are killing this teams chances of winning. Not having any success early. Pike has to do better. A guy like Doucoure should not be starting..how many times does he get 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes, same thing with no change

 

[RU-ROCS]

RU’s road woes are simply the result of a lack of talent. The team sometimes exceeds their ability at home when the RAC is rocking and emotions take over, but on the road, we have consistently lacked the big-time players to get wins.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Road win loss record in B1G for 2017-18

Outside of Michigan State, Purdue and Ohio State who are a combined 21-6 so far, here are the remaining road records in league games.

Michigan (ranked team) 3-4....have 2 games at Penn State and at Maryland

Nebraska 4-5 on road....wins at Rutgers, Northwestern, loss at Illinois

Penn State 3-5 on road.....tough loss at Purdue, competitive at Michigan State....still have road game at Nebraska, who is 7-0 at home in the B1G

Indiana-3-5
Maryland 1-7 (@Northwestern tonight)
Northwestern 2-6 (at Iowa remaining
Wisconsin 2-6
Minnesota 1-6
Illinois 0-7
Iowa 1-7
Rutgers 0-8

From Michigan, an NCAA program on down, the B1G road record is 20-64

From Indiana on down the road record is 10-55....if that isn't enough evidence that it's not easy to win away, not sure what else there is.

RU's path to success is the practice facility, recruiting and scheduling and winning as many home games as possible....with each win, you start momentum for fans to attend more games, students to attend more games and make the RAC a tougher spot for visiting teams....

I don't see a path for RU to make an NCAA run, without a significant home court advantage, where not every game is a sellout, but the place is loud and becomes the "old RAC"......

 

[goru7]

It is not just struggling on the road but also not playing well. Penn State lost to Purdue yesterday but the game was within a point under a minute. We have played one game on the road up to our capability , tough defense and rebounding , against Michigan State, the rest have been dreadful or we dug such a deep hole that when we made a run, we were too far back to get it close with under a few minutes to go. We play so sub par . Myles Mack and Kadeem Jack’s team in Eddie’s first year I think played a terrific game against Purdue on the road and suffered a tough close road loss but I have a hard time finding an equivalent effort 3-4 more times in the last 4 years. We should not be playing so lousy on the road and we should get better and more competitive as the season goes on , not less . We can lock down any team in this league but rarely do it on the road.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Road win loss record in B1G for 2017-18

Outside of Michigan State, Purdue and Ohio State who are a combined 21-6 so far, here are the remaining road records in league games.

Michigan (ranked team) 3-4....have 2 games at Penn State and at Maryland

Nebraska 4-5 on road....wins at Rutgers, Northwestern, loss at Illinois

Penn State 3-5 on road.....tough loss at Purdue, competitive at Michigan State....still have road game at Nebraska, who is 7-0 at home in the B1G

Indiana-3-5
Maryland 1-7 (@Northwestern tonight)
Northwestern 2-6 (at Iowa remaining
Wisconsin 2-6
Minnesota 1-6
Illinois 0-7
Iowa 1-7
Rutgers 0-8

From Michigan, an NCAA program on down, the B1G road record is 20-64

From Indiana on down the road record is 10-55....if that isn't enough evidence that it's not easy to win away, not sure what else there is.

RU's path to success is the practice facility, recruiting and scheduling and winning as many home games as possible....with each win, you start momentum for fans to attend more games, students to attend more games and make the RAC a tougher spot for visiting teams....

I don't see a path for RU to make an NCAA run, without a significant home court advantage, where not every game is a sellout, but the place is loud and becomes the "old RAC"......

Good points. Maryland starts five 4 star recruits and has an established coach and they got only their second road win tonight.

 

[RUonBrain]

As a couple above have said, I think the slow starts are at least partially attributed to Duke starting.

He doesn’t score, rarely dunks, doesn’t board very well, ...
I think those things will be much improved next year.

But for now, start Sa with Eugene.
Or Eugene with Freeman.
Or Freeman with Sa.

But please, stop starting Duke.
It is not working!

 

[TDIrish27]

IMO not really that critical who starts it's who gets majority of the minutes and who finishes.

 

[RUonBrain]

IMO not really that critical who starts it's who gets majority of the minutes and who finishes.

I generally get what you are saying, but...

How about we start 5 bench players, and after 4 minutes, bring in the starters and see if they can dig out of the hole.

After all, it’s not who starts but who finishes.

 

[RUChoppin]

As a couple above have said, I think the slow starts are at least partially attributed to Duke starting.

Yeah - still don't really understand why Doucoure starts, given his production over the last several games. It's seems as though Sa is our primary center, so I don't know why he doesn't get the starting nod.

Since the bulk of conference play started (Purdue in Game 16), Doucoure has averaged 11.7 min. He's only had one game more than 18 min (21 @PA St) and just three over 14 min (@PA St, @Illinois, Indiana). Meanwhile, over that same span, Sa has averaged 15.9 and Doorson has averaged 13.5.

So, in terms of minutes played over the last 14 games, our center rotation (by minutes played) has really been 1. Sa, 2. Doorson, 3. Doucoure.... but Doucoure has gotten the start in every game.

The same plays out with production over those 14 games:
Sa: 1.8 pts, 3.9 rb
Doorson: 1.9 pts, 3.2 rb
Doucoure: 1.7 pts, 2.7 rb

Overall during that stretch, our centers have played 41.1 min.... and have contributed 5.4 pts, 9.8 rbs

 

[AreYouNUTS]

We struggle "starting" halves at home, too, it's a problem.

 

[ScarletDave]

The Maryland game stings because we let them score on us 10-0 to start 1st half and 10-0 to start the second, and late in the game we had it at 8 with the ball chance to bring it to 6 or 5. Those slow starts cost you games. We have to have a play where once we get the ball to start we can easily go inside and get that first basket.

 

[RUChoppin]

We struggle "starting" halves at home, too, it's a problem.

I looked at our conference games and broke out our scoring vs. our opponents' scoring by quarter.

Rutgers points by quarter (RAC / away):
Q1: 11.2 (12.0 / 10.4)
Q2: 13.3 (12.5 / 14.0)
Q3: 14.1 (15.1 / 13.1)
Q4: 17.9 (19.3 / 16.6)

By half
1st: 24.5 (24.5 / 24.4)
2nd: 32.0 (34.4 / 29.7)

Opponent points by quarter (RAC / away)
Q1: 15.7 (14.6 / 16.8)
Q2: 16.2 (13.6 / 18.8)
Q3: 16.2 (16.0 / 16.4)
Q4: 19.7 (19.9 / 19.5)

By half
1st: 31.9 (28.2 / 35.6)
2nd: 35.9 (35.9 / 35.9)

We have scored 10 or fewer points than our opponents in a quarter 12 times... 9 of those have been in first halves.