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Cliff and Gavin (missing Piece?)

If you ask me! We are missing a 3point shooter and Center

Gavin and Cliff fit this roster perfectly.. and before you crap on Gavin, kid was a skinny freshman, he’s going be better.

Strange Cliff is in the Portal this long..

Doubtful but Bring them both Back!

Cliff has plenty of suitors and should take whatever time he needs to get the best opportunity.

I think they’ve both decided to move on and so should we.

Next year will be special and it would have been great to have them, but we should only go forward with people who want to be here.
 
Attracting a 3 point shooter will be easier than a center that can defend,rebound and score .Those type players will be probably going to perceived higher level programs.Rutgers might be left with a 6' 9'' power forward type player who could score but have difficulty guarding taller B1G Ten centers.Sommerville is likely playing more minutes than anticipated starting the season.
 
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My level of missing our "transfer out players" is inversely proportional to how good their replacements are.

If Kareem & magic come in via the portal, it will be Cliff & Having who?
 
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Time for Cliff to move on. Will not miss the no post moves, line drives at the rim and, no passing out of the post.
Chances are you and everyone else will miss all the good stuff Cliff does and how good he would have been playing with Dylan and Ace. I'm highly doubting we replace Cliff with a player who makes us better than Cliff. So for Rutgers basketball, it was better for Cliff to stay than move on.
 
Chances are you and everyone else will miss all the good stuff Cliff does and how good he would have been playing with Dylan and Ace. I'm highly doubting we replace Cliff with a player who makes us better than Cliff. So for Rutgers basketball, it was better for Cliff to stay than move on.
Rebounding and blocking.shots --- he will be missed.

On the offensive end --- he will not be missed. Having Dylan and Ace may get him a few more dunks. It will not impact his bad footwork and inability to finish non-dunk shots in the paint.
 
Rebounding and blocking.shots --- he will be missed.

On the offensive end --- he will not be missed.
It's not good Cliff is leaving. Just like it wasn't good that Cam left but many on this site said we were better off without him. Cliff's all around game makes him a difference maker. Can we bring in a difference maker 5 with our limited NIL?
 
It's not good Cliff is leaving. Just like it wasn't good that Cam left but many on this site said we were better off without him. Cliff's all around game makes him a difference maker. Can we bring in a difference maker 5 with our limited NIL?
It's not good, but I think people are willing to give the situation the benefit of the doubt before we reach end of the world stage.
 
It's not good, but I think people are willing to give the situation the benefit of the doubt before we reach end of the world stage.
No problem with this but just find it weird when people act like we definitely will be better off without him.
 
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If you ask me! We are missing a 3point shooter and Center

Gavin and Cliff fit this roster perfectly.. and before you crap on Gavin, kid was a skinny freshman, he’s going be better.

Strange Cliff is in the Portal this long..

Doubtful but Bring them both Back!
Tyson Acuff says hello. Much more proven commodity at this point which is what Dylan & Ace need around them.

Cliff needs a fresh start and he's going to potentially earn an amount of NIL that RU isn't able to cover. This will have a serious impact for his family back home in Africa.
 
Cliff is needed for sure!

No to Gavin. If he was complaining about playing time on this years team, then he’s going to be a big whiner next year.
 
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Cliff is needed for sure!

No to Gavin. If he was complaining about playing time on this years team, then he’s going to be a big whiner next year.

He didn’t seem like a complainer or a bad teammate at all. He just looked at his projected minutes next year and decided it would be best to go elsewhere.
 
No problem with this but just find it weird when people act like we definitely will be better off without him.
I agree. I feel that if Cliff wanted to be here and be a part of something historic, we would have made it work.
 
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It's not good Cliff is leaving. Just like it wasn't good that Cam left but many on this site said we were better off without him. Cliff's all around game makes him a difference maker. Can we bring in a difference maker 5 with our limited NIL?
Just my opinion. I want a Center that can consistently score (inside or outside or midrange) .......even if not as good on defense as Cliff.

The problem is always scoring enough points and I know Dylan and Ace will be great additions there. But, when they are off or in foul trouble it would be nice to have a center that can really score.
 
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I agree. Cliff would have a huge year playing off Dylan and Bailey.
Those guys will somehow help Cliff’s hideous lack of coordination and offensive incompetence outside of 4 feet ? We will miss the D but would prefer a balanced player.
 
If you ask me! We are missing a 3point shooter and Center

Gavin and Cliff fit this roster perfectly.. and before you crap on Gavin, kid was a skinny freshman, he’s going be better.

Strange Cliff is in the Portal this long..

Doubtful but Bring them both Back!
Holy crap. I rooted hard for Gavin, but if Gavin doesn’t want to be here…GTFO son! Pike will find someone better and with more experience, just like he got Martini and Acuff.
 
He didn’t seem like a complainer or a bad teammate at all. He just looked at his projected minutes next year and decided it would be best to go elsewhere.

I believe he was complaining about his minutes in December. Either way, if he’s not willing to fight for his minutes here, he’s probably not the right fit for the program
 
Ppl keep saying Acuff is better option then Gavin.. news flash Acuff is Noah Fernandez replacement not Gavin

Transfers/Grads replacement for 2024
Noah-=Acuff
Derek S.= Dylan H
Wolf= Martini
Hyatt= Ace boogie
Gavin=?
Mag=?
Cliff=?

Whoever think Martini is Mag’s replacement. I pray you’re wrong. He can’t hold Mag’s gym socks . ( not a quitter at least but not an upgrade or close to replacement)
 
Just my opinion. I want a Center that can consistently score (inside or outside or midrange) .......even if not as good on defense as Cliff.

The problem is always scoring enough points and I know Dylan and Ace will be great additions there. But, when they are off or in foul trouble it would be nice to have a center that can really score.
This would be good. I just worry that overall there may be a big drop in productivity at the center position if we bring in the wrong player.
 
Ppl keep saying Acuff is better option then Gavin.. news flash Acuff is Noah Fernandez replacement not Gavin

Transfers/Grads replacement for 2024
Noah-=Acuff
Derek S.= Dylan H
Wolf= Martini
Hyatt= Ace boogie
Gavin=?
Mag=?
Cliff=?

Whoever think Martini is Mag’s replacement. I pray you’re wrong. He can’t hold Mag’s gym socks . ( not a quitter at least but not an upgrade or close to replacement)
Mag was overrated even when he was healthy. His value to us was more because of our thin rotation and he was probably our best defender. Regardless Mag was clearly a starter with us and Martini (and Acuff) are bench players. We need a center more than anything right now.
 
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Ppl keep saying Acuff is better option then Gavin.. news flash Acuff is Noah Fernandez replacement not Gavin

Transfers/Grads replacement for 2024
Noah-=Acuff
Derek S.= Dylan H
Wolf= Martini
Hyatt= Ace boogie
Gavin=?
Mag=?
Cliff=?

Whoever think Martini is Mag’s replacement. I pray you’re wrong. He can’t hold Mag’s gym socks . ( not a quitter at least but not an upgrade or close to replacement)

I think the market is determining Mags value. And it’s not what he probably thought it was.
 
Ppl keep saying Acuff is better option then Gavin.. news flash Acuff is Noah Fernandez replacement not Gavin

Transfers/Grads replacement for 2024
Noah-=Acuff
Derek S.= Dylan H
Wolf= Martini
Hyatt= Ace boogie
Gavin=?
Mag=?
Cliff=?

Whoever think Martini is Mag’s replacement. I pray you’re wrong. He can’t hold Mag’s gym socks . ( not a quitter at least but not an upgrade or close to replacement)
He replaces the 3 pt shooting we never got from Gavin and Pike is looking for an additional shooter. Their positions are not the relevant part of the conversation especially when teams play different lineups in games to take advantage of various matchups.
 
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I believe he was complaining about his minutes in December. Either way, if he’s not willing to fight for his minutes here, he’s probably not the right fit for the program

Agreed. I think that’s the disappointment for me.
 
Those guys will somehow help Cliff’s hideous lack of coordination and offensive incompetence outside of 4 feet ? We will miss the D but would prefer a balanced player.

That’s a little rough.

Dylan and Bailey can score at an NBA level. We added the #8 scorer in the country. Williams showed he can drive, collapse the lane and dish.

Cliff or any big doesn’t have to shoot from beyond 4 feet to have a great year - he’d just need to catch balls when his guy tries to help on D, dunk the ball, run the floor and crash offensive boards. In other words, all things he does very well.

He looked like a very different player as a complementary piece to Geo & Harper or even when we had Cam.

When the other offensive options become him or Mulcahy or McConnell or Simpson, Mag, Griffiths or Hyatt all of a sudden everything is more difficult because literally none of them could shoot. He couldn’t be in space or get in the flow. He forced shots, trying to be a leader, out of frustration and to prove himself.

It wouldn’t shock me to see Cliff play with completely different energy and average 15 & 10 at RU if he came back and make it look easy.

We might need to get 12 & 8 from Sommerville or a transfer instead. We can still win big if we get that kind of production.
 
Ppl keep saying Acuff is better option then Gavin.. news flash Acuff is Noah Fernandez replacement not Gavin

Transfers/Grads replacement for 2024
Noah-=Acuff
Derek S.= Dylan H
Wolf= Martini
Hyatt= Ace boogie
Gavin=?
Mag=?
Cliff=?

Whoever think Martini is Mag’s replacement. I pray you’re wrong. He can’t hold Mag’s gym socks . ( not a quitter at least but not an upgrade or close to replacement)
Not really. We had no players that averaged over 27 minutes a game. We had 11 players averaging 11 minutes or more. And that was a reflection of the fact that they all mostly sucked. We don’t need one for one replacements for every one of those players listed. We just need a few good ones.
 
Ppl keep saying Acuff is better option then Gavin.. news flash Acuff is Noah Fernandez replacement not Gavin

Transfers/Grads replacement for 2024
Noah-=Acuff
Derek S.= Dylan H
Wolf= Martini
Hyatt= Ace boogie
Gavin=?
Mag=?
Cliff=?

Whoever think Martini is Mag’s replacement. I pray you’re wrong. He can’t hold Mag’s gym socks . ( not a quitter at least but not an upgrade or close to replacement)
Well we have 3 other frosh coming in. I think there’s a better than 50% chance at least one of them can replace Gavin’s production from last season.
 
Come on, we all rooted for Gavin and hoped that maybe, just maybe, he'd do the 3 point job close to what Spencer achieved but let's be honest he failed. Remaking history or saying he is still the guy is nonsense. Would you bet your house on that??
 
Ppl keep saying Acuff is better option then Gavin.. news flash Acuff is Noah Fernandez replacement not Gavin

Transfers/Grads replacement for 2024
Noah-=Acuff
Derek S.= Dylan H
Wolf= Martini
Hyatt= Ace boogie
Gavin=?
Mag=?
Cliff=?

Whoever think Martini is Mag’s replacement. I pray you’re wrong. He can’t hold Mag’s gym socks . ( not a quitter at least but not an upgrade or close to replacement)
1. I didn’t say Acuff is a Gavin replacement, although Acuff is a much better 3 pt shooter and rim attacker than GG. MUCH better. What I said was Pike will find better and more experienced players, like he just did with Acuff and Martini. Both are significantly better and both are much more experienced.

2. Did you really type…Derek S.= Dylan H????

3. People keep talking about 1 = 1 replacements. Thats not how this is done. Every year’s roster is very different, ESPECIALLY this year. I think Pike and staff’s approach is who is already on the team what is their role, experience level, their strengths, and what they can and can’t do on the court THIS YEAR. Then, what are the remaining roles and needs for THIS YEAR’S team and then they go out and recruit them.

BTW, so far, I think Pike and the staff are ahead of the game recruiting and closing Martini and Acuff so quickly and I look forward to the remaining moves they make.
 
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Fans don't understand fit and style impacts your other 4 positions on the court....having the wrong type of player, makes it difficult for others needing room to playmake.

A) Any big with hands and touch would benefit by playing with Ace and Dylan...but Cliff had 2 years without Dylan and Ace and was made the focal point of the offense.....he is not that type of fluid player with great hands....too often he didn't convert or was not a capable passer out of trouble. The bigs targeted are better fits on offense.

B) anyone asking for an anchor of a 5 man, that can only score in the paint, doesn't understand basketball....Cliff (or Ogbole) is not the right fit to help Dylan and Ace....he knows that and the staff knows that. Is Cliff good at the high post or 3 point line, dribbling, passing to players or shooting 3s??? The answer is no, no and no.

C) Ace and Dylan need lanes to drive and players need room and spacing. Anyone guarding Cliff in the paint, automatically becomes another defender in the way for Ace and Dylan when they drive and beat their defender, 1 on 1. We need to clear the lanes, not clog them.

D) there is a loss on the defensive end, but we are assuming there are 4 Zach Edey types we need to defend and thats not the case next year....that's not today's college basketball.....even Aaron Bradshaw, the former 5* Kentucky center who picked Ohio State, is a better offensive player than Cliff, because he has better shooting range, is a better passer and playmaker.....Bradshaw is not a better defender than Cliff.....He is not going to bs anchored to the paint with Ohio State.....he has other ways to score that Cliff as a perimeter big, doesn't have in his game to be that type of player.

E) in terms of Griffiths, it never made sense to invest into the guards that departed last year (Mulcahy and Spencer)....Gavin was the right choice with the goal for him to get better this past year and be a bigger piece for 2024-25.....it was the right choice, but the player didn't deliver.

You can't ask for better offense and at the same time ask for that with Cliff as your focal point at center.......doesn't mean he won't be a better fit elsewhere or play well elsewhere. RU just needs to find better athletes up front to rebound, we can find a better,.mobile big to replace his production, with fewer touches and shot attempts.
 
Fans don't understand fit and style impacts your other 4 positions on the court....having the wrong type of player, makes it difficult for others needing room to playmake.

A) Any big with hands and touch would benefit by playing with Ace and Dylan...but Cliff had 2 years without Dylan and Ace and was made the focal point of the offense.....he is not that type of fluid player with great hands....too often he didn't convert or was not a capable passer out of trouble. The bigs targeted are better fits on offense.

B) anyone asking for an anchor of a 5 man, that can only score in the paint, doesn't understand basketball....Cliff (or Ogbole) is not the right fit to help Dylan and Ace....he knows that and the staff knows that. Is Cliff good at the high post or 3 point line, dribbling, passing to players or shooting 3s??? The answer is no, no and no.

C) Ace and Dylan need lanes to drive and players need room and spacing. Anyone guarding Cliff in the paint, automatically becomes another defender in the way for Ace and Dylan when they drive and beat their defender, 1 on 1. We need to clear the lanes, not clog them.

D) there is a loss on the defensive end, but we are assuming there are 4 Zach Edey types we need to defend and thats not the case next year....that's not today's college basketball.....even Aaron Bradshaw, the former 5* Kentucky center who picked Ohio State, is a better offensive player than Cliff, because he has better shooting range, is a better passer and playmaker.....Bradshaw is not a better defender than Cliff.....He is not going to bs anchored to the paint with Ohio State.....he has other ways to score that Cliff as a perimeter big, doesn't have in his game to be that type of player.

E) in terms of Griffiths, it never made sense to invest into the guards that departed last year (Mulcahy and Spencer)....Gavin was the right choice with the goal for him to get better this past year and be a bigger piece for 2024-25.....it was the right choice, but the player didn't deliver.

You can't ask for better offense and at the same time ask for that with Cliff as your focal point at center.......doesn't mean he won't be a better fit elsewhere or play well elsewhere. RU just needs to find better athletes up front to rebound, we can find a better,.mobile big to replace his production, with fewer touches and shot attempts.
I was reading your post and I was refreshed. I was saying you know what I actually agree with hawk here and I’m glad I was. Overall, you are a good poster!
But then I got to paragraph E. It’s so unfortunate that you’re never going to get past your Cam blindspot. It’s actually frustrating to hear you talk about it all the time like it was obvious and a common thought. EVERYbody thought you were wrong then and everybody knows you were wrong now. Come back to reality!
 
Chances are you and everyone else will miss all the good stuff Cliff does and how good he would have been playing with Dylan and Ace. I'm highly doubting we replace Cliff with a player who makes us better than Cliff. So for Rutgers basketball, it was better for Cliff to stay than move on.
The big issue at the end of roster formation is whether the new transfers are better than those who have left.
 
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