Hollivey and Butts Evans

[redshoes]

Can we chalk them up as a bust at their position,

I think Butts and Evans are playing to their potential, What ya got , ya got.

But Hollivey is another story. She is so frustrating. She has the talent, and at time shows strong post moves.on both sides of the ball. But damn, because of stupid reaching fouls, she can't stay on the floor long enough to make an impact on the game. Will she ever learn? I had hoped Kia would work with her over the summer months. but i it didn't happen.
.

So going into tournament play, what does the staff do to stop the silly, unforced fouls. and get her more playing time.

 

[gigantor1024]

Originally posted by redshoes:

Can we chalk them up as a bust at their position,

I think Butts and Evans are playing to their potential, What ya got , ya got.

But Hollivey is another story. She is so frustrating. She has the talent, and at time shows strong post moves.on both sides of the ball. But damn, because of stupid reaching fouls, she can't stay on the floor long enough to make an impact on the game. Will she ever learn? I had hoped Kia would work with her over the summer months. but i it didn't happen.
.

So going into tournament play, what does the staff do to stop the silly, unforced fouls. and get her more playing time.

Of course, after a win we're going to call out a player. Can you at least be respectful and spell her name correctly? You misspelled it more than once so you clearly don't know her name is Hollivay

Don't forget this is someone who had major eye surgery her Sr yr in h.s.

did you watch the Minnesota game? How can you call those unforced fouls, when theyre being forced by the opposing player. Half the fouls on our team were bullshit in general because Zahui B was playing like a dirty dog

I can't tell if you're calling all 3 out, but how can you blame the 3 players when theyr'e the only reason we didnt lose. Did you see the shots Zahui B. missed? They looked like what we usually see when Rachel is off her game. Our Defenders forcing her from her preferred spot directly under the basket, and she just lobbed up these hookshots that she would wind up air balling. I think all 3 did a fine job with what they've got.

Evans, Butts and Hollivay played outstanding in that game considering they were playing the most athletic and strong post player we've seen all year

 

[MC1974]

Originally posted by gigantor1024:

Originally posted by redshoes:

Can we chalk them up as a bust at their position,

I think Butts and Evans are playing to their potential, What ya got , ya got.

But Hollivey is another story. She is so frustrating. She has the talent, and at time shows strong post moves.on both sides of the ball. But damn, because of stupid reaching fouls, she can't stay on the floor long enough to make an impact on the game. Will she ever learn? I had hoped Kia would work with her over the summer months. but i it didn't happen.
.

So going into tournament play, what does the staff do to stop the silly, unforced fouls. and get her more playing time.

Of course, after a win we're going to call out a player. Can you at least be respectful and spell her name correctly? You misspelled it more than once so you clearly don't know her name is Hollivay

Don't forget this is someone who had major eye surgery her Sr yr in h.s.

did you watch the Minnesota game? How can you call those unforced fouls, when theyre being forced by the opposing player. Half the fouls on our team were bullshit in general because Zahui B was playing like a dirty dog

I can't tell if you're calling all 3 out, but how can you blame the 3 players when theyr'e the only reason we didnt lose. Did you see the shots Zahui B. missed? They looked like what we usually see when Rachel is off her game. Our Defenders forcing her from her preferred spot directly under the basket, and she just lobbed up these hookshots that she would wind up air balling. I think all 3 did a fine job with what they've got.

Evans, Butts and Hollivay played outstanding in that game considering they were playing the most athletic and strong post player we've seen all year

+1

 

[redshoes]

You missed my point. I am not calling out anyone. Yes our three headed center did well during the last game. Rachel blocked 2 or three of the big's shots, and Evans and Butts tough defense caused the big to miss shots.

My question was, and is, what can be done to keep Hollivey on the floor. As I said she has shown the moves and skills needed to make an impact on the game. No disrespect there. Having played center myself, Hollivey is my favorite player. No disrespect there. . I am quite aware of the eye problem and respect her so much for dealing with it while playing Div I ball. No disrespect there.

For your information, for years, I have spent time and money following the RU women's team around the country and have followed this team for over twenty years. Thus I have paid my dues and as a die-hard fan, who loves WBB, I can make any comment, within reason, that I wish.

Again, simple question, , what do fans think could be done to keep her on the floor?

 

[Scarletwoman]

redshoes, with all due respect you can start by spelling her name correctly. It is Hollivay and she played a great game this past game. Maybe she is learning. I don't like to call players out by name because they are student athletes. I just talk about the team. That may be what is offending some.

 

[TAWRUReady]

Re: Hollivay and Butts Evans


I think being a post is a particularly difficult position to play to avoid fouls since the refs are focused (particularly vs MN) on the under basket activity, it seems. Mixing it up to grab rebounds, block shots, block out others are all geared to foul calls.
Zahui B. was very good at getting calls to her favor in the game vs RU, which is itself a talent.

Not calling any player out, but following up on the question:
Ms. Hollivay may have the additional difficulty of being so athletic and talented with her hands (such as blocking shots) that she is committing the hand fouls or being called for the hand fouls.
Wasn't one of the past posts at RU forced to practice with her hands holding a towel so she had to move her feet to avoid the fouls? Maybe it was a different team's post.
Anyway, if a big part of your contribution, or so you think, is with your hands, then it is hard to do it all with your feet.

One of the things that is amazing about Ms. Davis (different position, of course) is her doing so much defense with her quick hands and yet knowing how to move her feet to minimize, normally, the foul calls.

I really like how each of the post players brings a different contribution so that really helps the coach try to tailor the game plan. Or at least tailored better than when RU was lacking more than one true big.

This team is very entertaining to watch and that is partly because of the range of talent that the team has.

Go RU! Beat the Boilermakers!

 

[MC1974]

Recently I heard a WBB announcer say that a Division I post player may not fully develop her game until her junior or senior year.

We learned to have patience with our past two very talented posts, Tammy and Kia. I think Rachel will be something special.

 

[RUJMM78]

The center position along with the point guard are critical in post season play because Rutgers can't depend on just 3 players to produce all the scoring.Winning programs have balance which makes them more difficult to defend and that is more evident at NCAA Tournament time where its one loss and your done.The close games Rutgers has been playing in the B1G shows the importance of getting scoring contributions from all positions.As to excessive fouling Rutgers has had that problem in the past and it continues now which puts added pressure on bench players.

 

[rudad02]

Originally posted by RU-JMM78:

The center position along with the point guard are critical in post season play because Rutgers can't depend on just 3 players to produce all the scoring.Winning programs have balance which makes them more difficult to defend and that is more evident at NCAA Tournament time where its one loss and your done.The close games Rutgers has been playing in the B1G shows the importance of getting scoring contributions from all positions.As to excessive fouling Rutgers has had that problem in the past and it continues now which puts added pressure on bench players.

I don't think it is as much RU having a fouling problem, as it is constantly having lousy calls go against them.

 

[Knight Time Fan]

Originally posted by Scarletwoman:
redshoes, with all due respect you can start by spelling her name correctly. It is Hollivay and she played a great game this past game. Maybe she is learning. I don't like to call players out by name because they are student athletes. I just talk about the team. That may be what is offending some.

I do think in this case that the question is not especially unjust or unfeeling - Hollivay does have a problem with having fouls called on her. Doesn't mean she's a bad player, not trying or anything else negative. And I don't have the answer, either.

Redshoes may be a bit abrupt, but I find her posts often address legitimate issues, without the negativism that some other folks tout.

Posted by Doug

 

[RUgrad]

I am fairly comfortable with our post position. we have 3 girls who can play. Thats a lot of fouls, and a lot of staying fresh, versus a team with 1 center. Butts and Evans are a lot alike. Hollivay can be the best, she is so athletic and a force offensively. However she has to fix her fouling issue.

 

[BeKnighted]

Originally posted by rudad02:

Originally posted by RU-JMM78:

The center position along with the point guard are critical in post season play because Rutgers can't depend on just 3 players to produce all the scoring.Winning programs have balance which makes them more difficult to defend and that is more evident at NCAA Tournament time where its one loss and your done.The close games Rutgers has been playing in the B1G shows the importance of getting scoring contributions from all positions.As to excessive fouling Rutgers has had that problem in the past and it continues now which puts added pressure on bench players.

I don't think it is as much RU having a fouling problem, as it is constantly having lousy calls go against them.

If the calls constantly are going against them, that's a fouling problem.

I'm not trying to be snarky here. Refs call what they call, and whether or not they're technically right, you need to understand what they're going to call and adjust accordingly.

I should add that I don't think it's absolutely necessary to get scoring from everyone. Minnesota, for instance, got exactly zero points from its point guard on Sunday, but 11 assists, and she's actually 7th in scoring on the team, so she doesn't really contribute that much in that department. Rachel contributes much more scoring than that.

 

[rudad02]

Originally posted by BeKnighted:

Originally posted by rudad02:

Originally posted by RU-JMM78:

The center position along with the point guard are critical in post season play because Rutgers can't depend on just 3 players to produce all the scoring.Winning programs have balance which makes them more difficult to defend and that is more evident at NCAA Tournament time where its one loss and your done.The close games Rutgers has been playing in the B1G shows the importance of getting scoring contributions from all positions.As to excessive fouling Rutgers has had that problem in the past and it continues now which puts added pressure on bench players.

I don't think it is as much RU having a fouling problem, as it is constantly having lousy calls go against them.

If the calls constantly are going against them, that's a fouling problem.

I'm not trying to be snarky here. Refs call what they call, and whether or not they're technically right, you need to understand what they're going to call and adjust accordingly.

I should add that I don't think it's absolutely necessary to get scoring from everyone. Minnesota, for instance, got exactly zero points from its point guard on Sunday, but 11 assists, and she's actually 7th in scoring on the team, so she doesn't really contribute that much in that department. Rachel contributes much more scoring than that.

I don't think it's simply a matter of not recognizing what the refs are calling. I think that, oftentimes, no matter how we play we get jobbed, and I don't mean only our centers, & I don't mean only on defense. I think CVS tends to take too much too passively. I don't think that we are given the same kind treatment, as say, Tennessee is--ie favorable treatment. Our coach should send a loud & consistent message that we're not going to stand for a hosing. Throw me out if you want. She has the stature & it would get their attention. If you tolerate disperate & disrespectful treatment you will keep getting it, especially in critical situations, & it will cost you in big games. And I'm not trying to be snarky here.

 

[hoquat63]

I really doubt that RU really gets "jobbed " by the refs very often. No ref is going to get it right all of the time. As fans, we tend to notice the bad calls against us, and pay little attention to the calls that were bad for the opposition. By and large, I think the bad calls even out over time. Of course there are some egregiously bad calls (TN clock fiasco, Cappie's phantom time out, etc.). I also don't think a vocal coach really gets any advantage over a non vocal one. I have only reffed and coached at a really low level (5th/6th graders, but in my limited experience, I think if anything the loud coach may wind up getting fewer calls go his/her way than the more mellow coach.
At the Court Club men's hoops Cagers), this month former ref Tim Higgins (of the crew that blew it in the final seconds of the RU-St. John's fiasco a few years back) gave some pretty good insights into how referees view the calls.

 

[BeKnighted]

Just to add to Hoquat's thoughts, as a habitué of RebKell and the former ESPN board(s), fans of every team think that the refs are out to get them.

 

[bac2therac]

Originally posted by RU-JMM78:

The center position along with the point guard are critical in post season play because Rutgers can't depend on just 3 players to produce all the scoring.Winning programs have balance which makes them more difficult to defend and that is more evident at NCAA Tournament time where its one loss and your done.The close games Rutgers has been playing in the B1G shows the importance of getting scoring contributions from all positions.As to excessive fouling Rutgers has had that problem in the past and it continues now which puts added pressure on bench players.

+1....have to get offensive production from Hollivay, not here and there...consistant offensive production or it puts all the pressure on the other 3 to hit their jumpers and if one of them is off, its tough to win especially against a good opponent. All 3 centers make silly fouls and also Laney guilty of at least one or two a game, silly and frustration fouls have to be cut back

 

[rudad02]

Originally posted by hoquat63:
I really doubt that RU really gets "jobbed " by the refs very often. No ref is going to get it right all of the time. As fans, we tend to notice the bad calls against us, and pay little attention to the calls that were bad for the opposition. By and large, I think the bad calls even out over time. Of course there are some egregiously bad calls (TN clock fiasco, Cappie's phantom time out, etc.). I also don't think a vocal coach really gets any advantage over a non vocal one. I have only reffed and coached at a really low level (5th/6th graders, but in my limited experience, I think if anything the loud coach may wind up getting fewer calls go his/her way than the more mellow coach.
At the Court Club men's hoops Cagers), this month former ref Tim Higgins (of the crew that blew it in the final seconds of the RU-St. John's fiasco a few years back) gave some pretty good insights into how referees view the calls.

Re: refs & calls. That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it & I played three sports in both HS & College, played a dozen years of semi-pro ball, & coached HS, American Legion & managed semi-pro teams. Guess we'll see how it goes down the stretch & in subsequent years. Perhaps BIG refs on balance will be different re: RU. Not holding my breath, but hope to be proven wrong.

 

[RealityChech2]

Originally posted by redshoes:

Can we chalk them up as a bust at their position,

I think Butts and Evans are playing to their potential, What ya got , ya got.

But Hollivey is another story. She is so frustrating. She has the talent, and at time shows strong post moves.on both sides of the ball. But damn, because of stupid reaching fouls, she can't stay on the floor long enough to make an impact on the game. Will she ever learn? I had hoped Kia would work with her over the summer months. but i it didn't happen.
.

So going into tournament play, what does the staff do to stop the silly, unforced fouls. and get her more playing time.

Red shoes, I agree with you 100%. I cannot fathom how many times the bigs can't catch a ball, can't hold on to a rebound, make a horrible pass and basically have little BB IQ. There has been NO progression by any of the bigs.

I was expecting #1 to be a Charles (UCONN Center) type of player by her junior year, she's not even close to that.

 

[bac2therac]

The problems in the paint are most likely why this team will not get pass the 2nd round

 

[RUCONN]

Originally posted by bac2therac:
The problems in the paint are most likely why this team will not get pass the 2nd round

This. I like Evans', and Butts energy and Holivay has the skills to atleast make a WNBA roster as a last on the bench type, but none of them are top quality good. when I said earlier this year I thought this team was among the elite, I figured Holivay would play to her WNBA bench player potential, she hasn't done that at all. god I miss Kia Vaughn

 

[BeKnighted]

Originally posted by bac2therac:
The problems in the paint are most likely why this team will not get pass the 2nd round

I don't know about that. I'd say it depends on the matchups. (And also on what happens between now and the tournament - it's not impossible to imagine getting a 3 or 4 seed, even if a 6 or 5 seems more likely right now.)

What I see from the post players is that they provide 40 minutes worth of pretty good defense, but very little offense. (Combined, they average about 9.3 ppg, 3/4 of that from Rachel, and in B1G play, it's been only 8.5 ppg.) That's not optimal, but with three other players averaging more than 16 ppg each, it's also not a disaster, and the team does seem to score a good number of points in the paint despite the lack of punch from the posts.

Now, if Rachel could figure it out and become a serious scoring threat, then of course the team's prospects in the NCAAs improve - not just because her scoring would help, but because it also would open things up more for Tyler, Kahleah and Betnijah.

 

[RUCONN]

Originally posted by BeKnighted:

Originally posted by bac2therac:
The problems in the paint are most likely why this team will not get pass the 2nd round

I don't know about that. I'd say it depends on the matchups. (And also on what happens between now and the tournament - it's not impossible to imagine getting a 3 or 4 seed, even if a 6 or 5 seems more likely right now.)

What I see from the post players is that they provide 40 minutes worth of pretty good defense, but very little offense. (Combined, they average about 9.3 ppg, 3/4 of that from Rachel, and in B1G play, it's been only 8.5 ppg.) That's not optimal, but with three other players averaging more than 16 ppg each, it's also not a disaster, and the team does seem to score a good number of points in the paint despite the lack of punch from the posts.

Now, if Rachel could figure it out and become a serious scoring threat, then of course the team's prospects in the NCAAs improve - not just because her scoring would help, but because it also would open things up more for Tyler, Kahleah and Betnijah.

The lack of offense is the killer part. We need Hollivay to score and create matchup issues to open up space for other players. If you watch other teams defend Rutgers, we always have to work very hard to get a shot or Scaife or Copper needs to beat someone 1v1 or we get an offensive rebound i.e, broken play where we score based on our athleticism (which we are more athletic than most teams). If Hollivay was a threat, we could work inside out as opposed to side to side. with our lack of 3pt consistency, teams can really collapse and force us to make jumpers and when we miss, we see huge scoring droughts. this problem is exacerbated when Butts and Evans are on the floor. we need the paint presence. the court just opens up.

 

[MC1974]

I watch a lot of BIG games on the BTN and have observed that all of the teams have starting or regular post players who can start a layup (from a still position) from around fifteen feet and in and finish or draw a foul. This is in a half court offense, from a high post position.

Just imagine!!