Is this the 2024-2025 roster people want?

[NickRU714]

Between the Griffiths, Clif and Richmond (who wasn't even a Seton Hall recruit) transferring, a lot of talk about "not keeping players for their entire career".
That "something" needs to be done.

Is this want fans really want? I can almost guarantee coaches don't.
Here is a projected 2024-2025 roster with all the players that could (should?) still be on the roster.
Look at all the players that are still around and the fans get to cheer for!!

I'll assume we still get Ace/Dylan but doubtful Lathan is recruited with 3 returning centers already on the roster.
We still have a 13th roster spot to fill.
Perhaps one of Dortch or Grant still come?

Backcourt:
Dylan Harper
Derek Simpson
Jamichael Davis
Jalen Miller

Wing:
Ace Bailey
Mawot Mag
Gavin Griffiths
Dean Reiber
Antonio Chol

Front Court:
Clif O.
Emmanuel Ogbole
Antwone Woolfolk

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

On paper....YES
A healthy and motivated lineup of
JaMike
Harper
Ace
Mag
Cliff

Simpson
Gavin

Unicorn stuff

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Between the Griffiths, Clif and Richmond (who wasn't even a Seton Hall recruit) transferring, a lot of talk about "not keeping players for their entire career".
That "something" needs to be done.

Is this want fans really want? I can almost guarantee coaches don't.
Here is a projected 2024-2025 roster with all the players that could (should?) still be on the roster.
Look at all the players that are still around and the fans get to cheer for!!

I'll assume we still get Ace/Dylan but doubtful Lathan is recruited with 3 returning centers already on the roster.
We still have a 13th roster spot to fill.
Perhaps one of Dortch or Grant still come?

Backcourt:
Dylan Harper
Derek Simpson
Jamichael Davis
Jalen Miller

Wing:
Ace Bailey
Mawot Mag
Gavin Griffiths
Dean Reiber
Antonio Chol

Front Court:
Clif O.
Emmanuel Ogbole
Antwone Woolfolk

Nobody ever said that players who fail to see the floor shouldn’t transfer down. Jalen Miller and Antonio Chol wouldn’t be here regardless. Sitting on a bench is no fun for anyone.

 

[High Quality H2O]

This is a great thought experiment.

It’s hard to do since you would need to stack this up against the would be rosters of the rest of the B1G.

Lack of depth, but my gut says it is a relatively stronger roster compared to the “rest of would be B1G rosters” than the current compares.

 

[RU82]

The big losers in all of this is going to be HS players.

Who needs a guard ranked 250 in their senior class when you can go to the portal and get a proven commodity for essentially the same price? Kids that would be going to high majors as depth pieces to develop into starters will end up having to go to mid or low majors to prove themselves first.

 

[NickRU714]

Nobody ever said that players who fail to see the floor shouldn’t transfer down. Jalen Miller and Antonio Chol wouldn’t be here regardless. Sitting on a bench is no fun for anyone.

I must be confused then.
What is the “something” that must be done?
Bad players should be allowed to transfer but good players can’t?

So fans only care about watching good players for their entire careers and don’t care about watching bad players for their entire careers?

 

[fluoxetine]

I must be confused then.
What is the “something” that must be done?
Bad players should be allowed to transfer but good players can’t?

So fans only care about watching good players for their entire careers and don’t care about watching bad players for their entire careers?

No one wants to completely eliminate transfers. We just don’t want 50% of the entire league transferring every season. Is that actually difficult to understand?

 

[Mr Magoo]

The big losers in all of this is going to be HS players.

Who needs a guard ranked 250 in their senior class when you can go to the portal and get a proven commodity for essentially the same price? Kids that would be going to high majors as depth pieces to develop into starters will end up having to go to mid or low majors to prove themselves first.

Agree with you. Unless they are Dylan or Ace, it almost makes no sense to recruit HS players. Wait until they “cut their teeth” at another program and then go after them in the following years if they pan out.

 

[NickRU714]

No one wants to completely eliminate transfers. We just don’t want 50% of the entire league transferring every season. Is that actually difficult to understand?

It is actually. As I asked earlier: then what is the "something" that needs to be done?
You can't eliminate good players transferring out without eliminating bad players transferring as well.
Every "solution" seems to be minimally thought out with little consideration of how it would actually work.

New rules:

• Only 2 players per team are allowed to transfer each year. Turn it into a mad dash to see who can enter the portal first on a team once the season ends.
• If you score over 8ppg, not allowed to transfer
• If you played over 10mpg, not allowed to transfer
  
  
• Exception: The above rules do not apply to "lower level" players looking to transfer up to Rutgers and improve the roster. For example, if you are the 6th highest score in college basketball but at a lower level - screw your current team. You get to transfer up to the Big Ten.

 

[NickRU714]

Fans do want 50% of the entire league to transfer every season. They just want it to be only the worst 50%.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

New rules
If you are good you cant transfer
If you are bad you can transfer

 

[RU82]

Agree with you. Unless they are Dylan or Ace, it almost makes no sense to recruit HS players. Wait until they “cut their teeth” at another program and then go after them in the following years if they pan out.

Not to mention…

It might make sense for many schools to cease in the recruiting of HS players entirely.

Traditionally schools have invested years in cultivating relationships to land HS players. Would not that budget be better allocated to NIL? I don’t know how much we spend recruiting HS players but I’m confident that price tag if left in the piggy bank would be enough for us to be competing for top tier centers in the portal right now.

 

[fluoxetine]

Fans do want 50% of the entire league to transfer every season. They just want it to be only the worst 50%.

You’re being (intentionally?) obtuse. Sure that’s what fans want for their own teams. It doesn’t describe anyone’s overall vision and you really should know that.

 

[High Quality H2O]

Not to mention…

It might make sense for many schools to cease in the recruiting of HS players entirely.

Traditionally schools have invested years in cultivating relationships to land HS players. Would not that budget be better allocated to NIL? I don’t know how much we spend recruiting HS players but I’m confident that price tag if left in the piggy bank would be enough for us to be competing for top tier centers in the portal right now.

It’s just wild that you recruit HS kids over the course of years (counting time to keep them committed) only to have them transfer in their 1st or 2nd season then have to replace them in a matter of days/weeks.
That was not an efficient use of recruiting resources on the HS kid.

 

[mikeyo]

No one wants to completely eliminate transfers. We just don’t want 50% of the entire league transferring every season. Is that actually difficult to understand?

I hear you. But the fact of the matter is, kids who have been stars since they were 10 yrs old are now in a position where they don't have to watch other people play basketball anymore.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If i were commissioner for a day

50% of all revenue from the NCAA tournament gets split to all scholarship players. The team revenue fits in line with current NCAA revenue sharing (units based on conference participation and performance)with the $ going evenly among the 13 scholarship players.

Players either agree to that or turn professional.

Players have to sit out 10 games for the 1 st time they transfer and the entire season after that. A head coaching change eliminates any need to sit out.

The players would be looking at $500,000,000.
A B1G player would have made 65,934 last year
A small confernce player would have made about $12,000

 

[fluoxetine]

I hear you. But the fact of the matter is, kids who have been stars since they were 10 yrs old are now in a position where they don't have to watch other people play basketball anymore.

They didn’t have to before.

 

[NickRU714]

It’s just wild that you recruit HS kids over the course of years (counting time to keep them committed) only to have them transfer in their 1st or 2nd season then have to replace them in a matter of days/weeks.
That was not an efficient use of recruiting resources on the HS kid.

Imagine how inefficient a use of resources it would have been to spend so much time recruiting Antonio Chol and Jalen Miller, then be stuck with them taking up a roster spot for 4 years.

 

[NickRU714]

You’re being (intentionally?) obtuse. Sure that’s what fans want for their own teams. It doesn’t describe anyone’s overall vision and you really should know that.

Fans are being (intentionally) hypocritical but I'm being obtuse for pointing it out.
Interesting.

Overall vision: These transfers are out of control. Can't have so much roster upheaval
Their own team: These bad players need to transfer out so we can bring in roster upgrades.

Bring back the "transfers have to sit out" rule then. That'll stop all the transfers quick.
Acuff, Derkack, Martini and potential Center: we'll see you in 2025-2026 after Ace/Dylan are gone.

 

[RU82]

It’s just wild that you recruit HS kids over the course of years (counting time to keep them committed) only to have them transfer in their 1st or 2nd season then have to replace them in a matter of days/weeks.
That was not an efficient use of recruiting resources on the HS kid.

It made sense when you had a realistic expectation that they would stay for their entire college career. But now? Not so much.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

On paper....YES
A healthy and motivated lineup of
JaMike
Harper
Ace
Mag
Cliff

Simpson
Gavin

Unicorn stuff

In a normal college cycle Mag and Cliff are graduating and out of eligibility, once these 5th years run out, CBB becomes "normal " again.

 

[mikeyo]

They didn’t have to before.

They can play somewhere else immediately

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

In a normal college cycle Mag and Cliff are graduating and out of eligibility, once these 5th years run out, CBB becomes "normal " again.

When i saw you commented on my post I thought you were going to nail me about Mag and how wrong I was.

 

[fluoxetine]

Fans are being (intentionally) hypocritical but I'm being obtuse for pointing it out.
Interesting.

Overall vision: These transfers are out of control. Can't have so much roster upheaval
Their own team: These bad players need to transfer out so we can bring in roster upgrades.

Next you’ll be telling me that fans care more about bad calls when it negatively impacts their own team and less when it doesn’t. Groundbreaking stuff!

Bring back the "transfers have to sit out" rule then. That'll stop all the transfers quick.

I mean that would be excellent except for the fact that the courts apparently won’t allow it.

Acuff, Derkack, Martini and potential Center: we'll see you in 2025-2026 after Ace/Dylan are gone.

Kind of bizarre take

 

[SBP]

If my Aunt had balls…

 

[High Quality H2O]

Imagine how inefficient a use of resources it would have been to spend so much time recruiting Antonio Chol and Jalen Miller, then be stuck with them taking up a roster spot for 4 years.

I'm comparing recruiting HS players now to portal players now in current climate.

So if we are going back to no transfers, then let's compare the usage in their recruitment vs those used in alternative recruitments...which would be higher level HS players. In that world actually they are probably efficient from a recruiting standpoint since their options at power level are limited (or only us), their utilization is low.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If my Aunt had balls…

She would play Reiber at the "4"

 

[NickRU714]

Next you’ll be telling me that fans care more about bad calls when it negatively impacts their own team and less when it doesn’t. Groundbreaking stuff!

I mean that would be excellent except for the fact that the courts apparently won’t allow it.

Kind of bizarre take

Bad calls isn't a rule of the sport.
Nobody actually says "I'm fine with bad calls as long as they help Rutgers. We should keep bad calls around."
Everyone would agree that getting rid of bad calls is a good thing.
If all bad calls were removed tomorrow, nobody would actually complain.

Restrict transfers tomorrow (the theme of the posts and threads and news articles) and see the reaction.
Fans (and coaches) don't actually want to deal with the consequences of restricting transfers.
There is no getting out of mistakes (see Chol, Miller, Woolfolk, Simpson).


What's a bizarre take?
If they brought back the transfer sit out rule (a proposed solution to stop the roster upheaval) - all of those players wouldn't be eligible this year.
However, as you point out that actually isn't an option.
My only issue with the old sit out rule was the "homesick waiver". One rule for everyone - no exceptions.
If you have such a serious issue you need to transfer back home for non-athletic reasons, then sit out the year and deal with those non-athletic issues.


So then to my original question - what is the "something" that people say needs to happen?
And how doesn't that "something" end up with the 2024-2025 roster I posted in the OP.

 

[fluoxetine]

Bad calls isn't a rule of the sport.
Nobody actually says "I'm fine with bad calls as long as they help Rutgers. We should keep bad calls around."
Everyone would agree that getting rid of bad calls is a good thing.
If all bad calls were removed tomorrow, nobody would actually complain.

Restrict transfers tomorrow (the theme of the posts and threads and news articles) and see the reaction.
Fans (and coaches) don't actually want to deal with the consequences of restricting transfers.
There is no getting out of mistakes (see Chol, Miller, Woolfolk, Simpson).

Most of the people who want to restrict transfers would be happy to return to the old transfer rules.

What's a bizarre take?
If they brought back the transfer sit out rule (a proposed solution to stop the roster upheaval) - all of those players wouldn't be eligible this year.

It’s bizarre to try to apply the old rules to a bunch of moves that were made under the new rules.

So then to my original question - what is the "something" that people say needs to happen?

It probably depends on what person. You’re yelling at clouds dude.

And how doesn't that "something" end up with the 2024-2025 roster I posted in the OP.

Well for one thing I don’t think anyone’s idea would involve a time machine or retroactively applying new rules to moves that were already made.

 

[RUInsanity]

If i were commissioner for a day

50% of all revenue from the NCAA tournament gets split to all scholarship players. The team revenue fits in line with current NCAA revenue sharing (units based on conference participation and performance)with the $ going evenly among the 13 scholarship players.

Players either agree to that or turn professional.

Players have to sit out 10 games for the 1 st time they transfer and the entire season after that. A head coaching change eliminates any need to sit out.

The players would be looking at $500,000,000.
A B1G player would have made 65,934 last year
A small confernce player would have made about $12,000

If I was commissioner for a day

The only rule change I would implement would be that Scholarships would become multi-year contracts. Players would then be obligated to stay for the term of their contract. If they decided to leave or transfer before the end of the contract term......they would have to sit out for the remaining contract term. If they decide to leave for the NBA / Professional League - there could be a buyout clause.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If I was commissioner for a day

The only rule change I would implement would be that Scholarships would become multi-year contracts. Players would then be obligated to stay for the term of their contract. If they decided to leave or transfer before the end of the contract term......they would have to sit out for the remaining contract term. If they decide to leave for the NBA / Professional League - there could be a buyout clause.

I am thinking the student athletes wouldn't care for you all that much

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

New rules
If you are good you cant transfer
If you are bad you can transfer

As it applies to RU, yes sir.

 

[NickRU714]

If I was commissioner for a day

The only rule change I would implement would be that Scholarships would become multi-year contracts. Players would then be obligated to stay for the term of their contract. If they decided to leave or transfer before the end of the contract term......they would have to sit out for the remaining contract term. If they decide to leave for the NBA / Professional League - there could be a buyout clause.

And what about players the coaches want off the team to free up roster spots?
Also, teams can never upgrade their roster other than with freshman?

So we keep Jalen Miller, Antonio Chol, Woolfolk and never get Martini, Acuff, Derkack or a potential Center/shooter.
No Cam Spencer or Hyatt?

Or is the contract term not 4/5 years?

 

[RUInsanity]

I am thinking the student athletes wouldn't care for you all that much

Perhaps not. But we're in a situation where there will be lots of unhappiness regardless.

 

[Arizona Knight]

On paper....YES
A healthy and motivated lineup of
JaMike
Harper
Ace
Mag
Cliff

Simpson
Gavin

Unicorn stuff

Can’t rely on Mag. Simpson and Gavin are two horrific shooters off the bench. Just being objective and not personal.

Cliff is the only one who will be missed from a competitive standpoint.

 

[Rutgers25]

You’re being (intentionally?) obtuse. Sure that’s what fans want for their own teams. It doesn’t describe anyone’s overall vision and you really should know that.

Definitely obtuse. We all know the cat is out of the bag and it will be hard to go back, but it doesn’t mean we have to be thrilled with annual free agency. College is more transactional than the pros! I wouldn’t have a problem with that roster you outlined in your first post. If Latham is good, he’ll be gone to the highest bidder anyway after a year

 

[NickRU714]

Definitely obtuse. We all know the cat is out of the bag and it will be hard to go back, but it doesn’t mean we have to be thrilled with annual free agency. College is more transactional than the pros! I wouldn’t have a problem with that roster you outlined in your first post. If Latham is good, he’ll be gone to the highest bidder anyway after a year

And if Lathan isn't good, hopefully he'll be gone to a lower level and we bring in a transfer upgrade. Right?
Just like Woolfolk, Miller, Chol and Simpson.

It goes both ways. But nobody ever complains about those transactions.

Pointing out hypocrisy isn't being obtuse.

 

[Brisket and Bourbon]

The genie and the bottle are no longer coincident in space and time! 😉 (when it comes to transfers and the ol portal)

 

[fluoxetine]

And if Lathan isn't good, hopefully he'll be gone to a lower level and we bring in a transfer upgrade. Right?
Just like Woolfolk, Miller, Chol and Simpson.

It goes both ways. But nobody ever complains about those transactions.

Pointing out hypocrisy isn't being obtuse.

Yes it is. The fact that some people are sometimes hypocritical is not relevant to the situation.

 

[fluoxetine]

(Person A) There are too many transfers.

(Person B) But you didn’t complain when that bad player transferred! Chessmate!!