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Looking Back, Looking Forward Realistically

RUMassAlum

Sophomore
Jun 7, 2005
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If RU loses to Michigan and then gets bumped off in the first tournament round in the B1G, the team potentially could plummet to the very bottom of all Div. 1 teams. Fifteen straight defeats and the deep bottom. It's depressing, after being an avid follower for 45 years. In a recent thread the OP asked if this was worse than the Littlepage era in the 2nd half of the 1980's. The present situation, I replied, is infinitely worse. Bob Wentzel brought the team to the NCAA's the very next year, the first of 4 consecutive NCAA or NIT appearances. The current program is not about to do that, or even reach the double digit win total.

In the latter part of this post I am going to state in a constructive way what I think is the only realistic approach to improving the program in the long term. I will admit, however, that all I feel about the CURRENT Rutgers Men's basketball program is sadness. I have no anger or frustration left; I am beyond that, as some of you probably are as well. I am not mad at Eddie; it is still amazing to me that he agreed to jump onto this careening train wreck, and he stopped RU MBB from being nothing more than a comedian's TV punch line after the Rice mess. I am not mad at the players; they're just kids and I'm grateful to Mack and Jack for staying during this tough time. I'm not mad at Julie Hermann; she hasn't been here that long and we can't expect instant fixes or miracles. I'm not even mad at Pres. Barchi, who, we should remember, has an academic institution to run, first and foremost, not a semi-pro athletic league.

Here's what I am mad about: the complete decline of RU MBB goes back 9 years, to when AD Bob Mulcahy foisted Fred Hill Jr. on a decent coach, Gary Waters, and then cynically found a lame excuse to push Waters out. Waters brought us the last modest success the program has had, even if he wasn't a great NJ recruiter or a perfect coach. RU MBB has been in free fall ever since, and the ensuing athletic departments and administrations never made it a priority to stop the plunge. Mulcahy and those who backed him in this move screwed up; perhaps he deserves kudos for helping to build up football, but he certainly didn't do it with hoops.

So here's what I think will have to happen over a period of years:

1) For the umpteenth time, there is no quick and dramatic fix to this; RU MBB has fallen too far. It's going to take years to bring about some tangible gain. One aspect of this is that it makes little sense to target Eddie as a convenient scapegoat in the short term. That does not mean he should be free of criticism, but blaming him for the whole mess is too simple. Give him a maximum of 4 years and then make a change. Removing him now would do far more harm than good.
2) Be prepared for a few more grim seasons. Yes, I know there are a few who look for that little bit of silver lining in this dark cloud, but the fact is, we lose our two best players (yes, I know that Jack had an off year and Mack carried an unrealistic burden, but they are still the two current best) and we have a roster full of bench-level players compared to the rest of the conference, and a bunch of unproven newcomers. Corey Sanders, if he's still with us, isn't going to be an instant miracle worker, and it's likely that one or more of our more promising players will transfer. Sorry, but next year is going to be worse than this one.
3) The only way, IMHO, to begin to chip away even slightly at this mountain is to do it the old fashioned way, knocking on one door at a time, just the way Greg Schiano did it when he first came here, inheriting a truly dreadful FB team. One by one, he persuaded NJ (and FL) kids to come here, but it took 4 or even 5 seasons to reach even minimal respectability. We've got to be prepared to take the same approach, although hopefully success will come sooner in BB. Get a young, high energy hustler in here to coach if EJ can't do it and try like hell, one recruit at a time, to get first one, then two, then another to come to RU MBB. The great news is that BB requires far fewer players to persuade to come here than FB.
4) As for a practice facility, apparently that expensive toy is an absolutely necessary part of the price to play in today's hyper-competitive, super-conference game of big time college sports. However, even if a multi-billionaire benefactor, or less likely, the NJ legislature, shocked us tomorrow with a check for the full cost of such a facility, it'd be years before it was constructed and ready to use. So pursue that goal with a capital campaign, by all means, and include in it upgrades to our aging arena, but know that a practice facility isn't going to be a magic fix all by itself.


5) See # 3 above.

6) See #3 above.
 
This is a thoughtful, well-considered post.

You can agree or disagree with elements or details in the post, but the post is very worth reading and keeping in mind, regardless of where any of us stand on the current state of the program.
 
Great Post the demise of RU basketball goes back even further to the late 70's when the original Big East was forming and Uncle Freddie kept us out of there for his visionary eastern football conference which of course never materialized. At the time we were one of the top programs in the east and as they say the rest is history
 
I agree, especially post #3.

Building it slowly and chipping away resonates with me.

I want Lewises, Etous and Williamses. Chipping away or chopping (Schiano) is

getting thru pick on the high side
making the extra pass
making the ref get to at least 3 on a 5 count
taking a hard foul at times
diving on the floor for loose balls
pucking during pre season sprints
not laughing at airball FTs
 
as depressing as it seems-think about how bad it would be if we were not in the BIG- his post really does show that there is hope---but it would be next to hopeless without BIG
 
Thanks, Jelly. You are a consistently good poster yourself (more than I can say for myself). The sad thing is that here it is lunch time and no one else has looked at the OP--sign of the times for RU MBB.
 
I agree and especially agree that the idea of firing/replacing EJ at this point is not only unfair, it's counter-productive.

And as I have said many times this year this is going to take MORE PATIENCE. We as loyal fans don't deserve to watch the disaster that we have become but it wasn't going to change mid season and next year we are looking at a lot of new faces that will be getting court time so its not likely to be pretty right away.

It sucks to say "wait a couple of years" but thats what we've got and that is the reality of the situation.
 
These threads on the same subject all fail to address the interim period before 2022 when Rutgers receives full B1G funding.Jordan has nothing to sell top tier recruits in the short term and the notion that he can win with complementary type players is truly wishful thinking.Rutgers needs at a minimum a squad full of Mack type players in different heights that can score .How many more years of watching players incapable of scoring do fans need to see ?I'm afraid at Rutgers it might be another 5-10 years because there is no sense of urgency to change the status quo.
 
I think that is your answer...Jordan coaches until 2017-8 and probably is dead man walking his last few years (coach without a contract). Someone comes in fresh in 2018-19 knowing that money is on the way.

Wouldn't be surprised if Jordan isn't the answer at this time next year an assistant coach with head coaching experience is "put" on his staff as a guy who could eventually become an interim HC.
 
It's just depressing knowing we have a program in Division 1 with absolutely no hope on the horizon. B1G money is on the way but it's like telling someone stranded on a desert island that they'll be rescued in seven years.

This post was edited on 3/5 1:42 PM by Aggs
 
Basketball should take no longer than 3 years to be pretty good. You don't need to slowly create a basketball program. It should only take 1 or 2 years for it not to be an embarrassment. We all know facilities, money etc are hurdles. However, to say it takes years to fix a basketball program is BS. If you hire a coach who puts together a staff that can recruit and coach, you can be respectable quickly. For goodness sake basketball only requires a few real good players surrounded by role players to be good.

Why does RU make it so complicated?
 
Originally posted by RU_DIO:

Basketball should take no longer than 3 years to be pretty good. You don't need to slowly create a basketball program. It should only take 1 or 2 years for it not to be an embarrassment. We all know facilities, money etc are hurdles. However, to say it takes years to fix a basketball program is BS. If you hire a coach who puts together a staff that can recruit and coach, you can be respectable quickly. For goodness sake basketball only requires a few real good players surrounded by role players to be good.

Why does RU make it so complicated?
Not to pick on you but in your first sentence you said 3 years and then you qualified by saying it should only take 1 or 2. I think 3 years is fair. 1 or 2 is not.

What makes it complicated?
Aside from the obvious and oft-discussed facilities problems, we started literally at ground zero with very few P5 quality players. Its not like we had a base to build on. That will take probably 3 years to change

And IMHO, this year (2014-15) was year 1. There is no way in hell you can blame EJ for last years team when he had to at a very late date get obviously-not-ready-for- Div1 basketball players to even field a team after the RIce mess.

I think we'll know were we stand in 2 more years with EJ. I know some of you have made up your mind about him already and I don't think that is fair, but to each his own. And FWIW I am in no way convinced nor optimsitic that EJ is THE MAN. However I am willing to give him the fair shake he deserves.
 
One way we could get recruits right now is to do what every one else is doing- go to under armour-give them 2 million dollars and say make us the best uniforms possible. Also, shoes and socks. As crazy as it seems, recruits love that shit. It's not that expensive either. Throw some swords on the socks, whatever you have to do. It's cheap and has some kind of pull. Shoes, socks, uniforms.

I don't think well get blown out next year but it will be tough. EJ probably stays here another 4-5 years. If next year is bad though, who knows- maybe he would leave. He is an okay coach and the salary was the best he would get. Nonetheless, he doesn't seem like hell be able to mentally take 2-3 more of these kinds of seasons.

Next year might be okay. We might surprise some people. Still, recruit a different type of kid to Rutgers. Bricoes wouldn't be able to turn this program around. Bring someone in that is high iq, loves basketball on all levels, and doesn't have any kind of ego. Smart. I think the way the program is right now, EJ has done an okay job recruiting because he has looked for these kinds of kids. I don't expect him to get 4-5 stars. Hire a new assistant though. Let dalip/Mc whatever go elsewhere.O koren might be part of the reason for GL success. Nonetheless, the player does the work, not the coach.

Pretty much at this point meaning next year- do the little things to make the rac a better place to play and watch a game. Get some new uniforms that make a 4 star want to put it on. I look forward to next year still though. I like DJ's development and GL's, I expect to see a better Williams comes back next year behind the arc. He's the type of kid you want to recruit though.
 
Higgins, you really came away impressed by their uniforms, huh? :-) The kids going to Maryland have been wearing brand-new gear since they were in the 6th grade. Well a large majority of high major athletes do. It's expected not a luxury.

Seton Hall joined Under Armour at the beginning of the year.

We're Nike which is still #1 in my book.




This post was edited on 3/5 5:33 PM by Aggs
 
Originally posted by RU_DIO:


Basketball should take no longer than 3 years to be pretty good. You don't need to slowly create a basketball program. It should only take 1 or 2 years for it not to be an embarrassment. We all know facilities, money etc are hurdles. However, to say it takes years to fix a basketball program is BS. If you hire a coach who puts together a staff that can recruit and coach, you can be respectable quickly. For goodness sake basketball only requires a few real good players surrounded by role players to be good.

Why does RU make it so complicated?
The RAC is antiquated, one step above high school, and we don't have a practice facility. Our fanbase really has no sense of perspective when it comes to facilities. Take a look at Louisvilles arena, Pittsburghs facility, Miami's facility, UVA's facility, Marylands facility, Villanovas practice facility, syracuses practice facility, uconns practice facility. Even Seton Hall gets to play in the brand new Newark Arena. Who would want to play in an antiquated facility, when you can play in paradise?

How anyone expects good players to come here and immediately turn things around is beyond me. We have shown the ability to get maybe 1 or 2 good players in each class, but what we need is a whole squad of them in order to be successful against the top notch competition we are playing against.

The type of player we are able to recruit today will take time to develop. The types of players who could turn rutgers around in 1-2 years like the briscoes and the townes want no part of Rutgers because they know the commitment to be succesful just isn't there. we need to change that by builidng a donor funded practice facility.
 
Haha, aggs- By far the coolest socks/shoes/uniforms combo i've seen all year- and we should have the money for that. Our uniforms are not that cool- and everybody wears different shoes. Get a killer shoe, great socks, great uniforms. Crazy it's come to that.

Make the students part of the process-what they would want.

I am just looking for some way the program could make an improvement that isn't a boatload of money, and doesn't involve a new coach.

Something that can be done for next year.
 
It has to start with the staff. Looking at it on paper, its a mismatched staff, as it seemingly was last year. Eddie alluded to chemistry issues last year, resulting in Cox and Trigs and Shubick being let go. I wonder how it is any better chemistry wise with the remnants of Rice's staff and Eddies new additions, Okoren Vetrone and Dalatri ( who was never announced, but is at press row every game). Baffling, you would expect Rutgers would want to tout the fact that Mens BB has its own strength coach. Eddie keeps mentioning the cohesion on the staff, I just don't see it, in huddles or on the bench with their interaction. Daleep was supposed to be the ace in the hole with Singh, with his St. Peters Prep connections, and he commits in February to SHU. Eddie supposedly offered that kid two summers ago.

Looking at Data Universe that Carino just released, Dalatri is making 90K. Macon 205, Okoren 200 and Shoes, 120. That would make Macon the ace recruiter and #1 Assistant. Kind of funny, in that he's never gotten the best kids even in his hotbed NYC, and correct me if I'm wrong, has never sniffed the postseason? It completely baffles me why he is held in such a high regard. Going further, adding up the whole staff, it comes out to 890K for everyone not including Eddie or the Academic lady or the trainer. 890K! That is on par with TONS of high majors. We need more out of this staff. I'm beginning to think that Cox is the biggest loss of the last 5 years.
 
Originally posted by PatrickRU92:

And IMHO, this year (2014-15) was year 1. There is no way in hell you can blame EJ for last years team when he had to at a very late date get obviously-not-ready-for- Div1 basketball players to even field a team after the RIce mess.

I think we'll know were we stand in 2 more years with EJ. I know some of you have made up your mind about him already and I don't think that is fair, but to each his own. And FWIW I am in no way convinced nor optimsitic that EJ is THE MAN. However I am willing to give him the fair shake he deserves.
This is EXACTLY where I stand. Not sure Eddie is the guy, but good gracious give the guy a chance.

A basketball roster has 13 scholarship players. Jordan has been here 22 months and has already recruited 15 kids to the school and still has one 'ship available for next year. There was nothing/no one here. How many P5 HC's have recruited HALF the amount of kids Eddie has in the 22 months? 2? 3? I guarantee Eddie has handed out at least FIVE more scholarships in the last 22 months than any other HC in the country.

Of the 12 kids slated to be on next years roster we have not seen five play and three other were just frosh. At least give the guy a fair shot.
 
Some will like what I am going to say and other's won't. The coaching salaries should be cut in half. Let them get bonuses for the team's performance so they can get back up to our top competitor's comparable salaries.

If they don't like it, they can leave. Others will gladly take their places. For those that will argue that you need to pay comparable to "keep up with the Joneses", let us win and then they can have salaries equal to other top teams. Until then, let them get paid like us working people.

Best of Luck,
Groz
 
I' agree with the original post

We have 3 pcs... Need three more years of getting pcs

This is a 6 yr cycle to get to
NCAA bubble level.

Need to recruit out if this
 
The problem since Wenzel is they leave as quick as they come. Eddie has brought is some pretty serviceable guys. Next year we might not have a seasoned leader on the team but for the first time in two decades we will go 10 deep in kids that can actually dribble. Part of development is coaching but part is competition. With the lack of depth that we have had for decades there was no reason to improve. Hopefully Eddie can keep these kids together and minimize the movement out of the program. At the end of the day, much of Sciano's improvement came when injuries were reduced thru improved strength and conditioning and kids staying in school through increased academic support.

If Eddie can keep these kids in the program for 4 years we will see a ton of improvement even with this level of recruits.
 
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