OT: Let's Discuss the Pelagic Aspects of One of the Greatest Songs of All Time, CSN's "Southern Cross"

[RutgersRaRa]

I've got a few clarifying questions plaguing me, perhaps not for the first time. 4Real/Bleem answered a couple of these a few years ago, but new ones cropped up so I'm running with the whole enchilada.

Steven Stills (studio)/David Crosby (live) sang that he was "sailing a reach before a following sea"--what is a reach?

Does the "following sea" refer to the current that flows south from Alaska through the Pacific, or is it a reference to more local currents?

They had "80 feet of waterline"--is that the length of the boat, or 40 on each side?

How is "Papeete" pronounced?

He tried to call his woman "from a noisy bar in Avalon," which is just off the coast of Catalina Island, about 25 miles west of Laguna Beach, California--is it standard to start a southern journey from Catalina rather than a marina in, say, Dana Point?

His revelation regarding why his wife left him twice came "on a midnight watch"--how long is a standard midnight watch? Does it depend on how many crew there are?

 

[colbert17]

pelagic - relating to, or living or occurring in the open sea

My #1 question has been answered.

 

[Tango Two]

I've got a few clarifying questions plaguing me, perhaps not for the first time. 4Real/Bleem answered a couple of these a few years ago, but new ones cropped up so I'm running with the whole enchilada.

Steven Stills (studio)/David Crosby (live) sang that he was "sailing a reach before a following sea"--what is a reach?

Does the "following sea" refer to the current that flows south from Alaska through the Pacific, or is it a reference to more local currents?

They had "80 feet of waterline"--is that the length of the boat, or 40 on each side?

How is "Papeete" pronounced?

He tried to call his woman "from a noisy bar in Avalon," which is just off the coast of Catalina Island, about 25 miles west of Laguna Beach, California--is it standard to start a southern journey from Catalina rather than a marina in, say, Dana Point?

His revelation regarding why his wife left him twice came "on a midnight watch"--how long is a standard midnight watch? Does it depend on how many crew there are?

Sailing on a reach means the wind is coming from abeam, straight from the side, the best point of sail.

When you sail perpendicular to the wind it's called a reach, and when you're sailing into the wind it's called a beat. You can't sail directly into the wind or your sails will luff. The best you can do is sail at a 45 degree angle into the wind.

Southern Cross by Crosby, Stills & Nash - Songfacts

Southern Cross by Crosby, Stills & Nash song meaning, lyric interpretation, video and chart position

www.songfacts.com

 

[RutgersRaRa]

Sailing on a reach means the wind is coming from abeam, straight from the side, the best point of sail.

When you sail perpendicular to the wind it's called a reach, and when you're sailing into the wind it's called a beat. You can't sail directly into the wind or your sails will luff. The best you can do is sail at a 45 degree angle into the wind.

Southern Cross by Crosby, Stills & Nash - Songfacts

Southern Cross by Crosby, Stills & Nash song meaning, lyric interpretation, video and chart position

www.songfacts.com

“Luff” means the sails flutter, or perhaps go flat?

 

[RU848789]

I've got a few clarifying questions plaguing me, perhaps not for the first time. 4Real/Bleem answered a couple of these a few years ago, but new ones cropped up so I'm running with the whole enchilada.

Steven Stills (studio)/David Crosby (live) sang that he was "sailing a reach before a following sea"--what is a reach?

Does the "following sea" refer to the current that flows south from Alaska through the Pacific, or is it a reference to more local currents?

They had "80 feet of waterline"--is that the length of the boat, or 40 on each side?

How is "Papeete" pronounced?

He tried to call his woman "from a noisy bar in Avalon," which is just off the coast of Catalina Island, about 25 miles west of Laguna Beach, California--is it standard to start a southern journey from Catalina rather than a marina in, say, Dana Point?

His revelation regarding why his wife left him twice came "on a midnight watch"--how long is a standard midnight watch? Does it depend on how many crew there are?

Song isn't even one of CSN's top 20 songs. Yacht rock drek.

 

[Tango Two]

“Luff” means the sails flutter, or perhaps go flat?

Luffing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NiTeKnight]

In the first video Michael Curtis talks about the origins of the song Southern Cross, which was written by Stephen Stills and Rick and Michael Curtis. It was based on the song "Seven League Boots" by the Curtis Brothers. I also put in a link for a live cover by Jimmy Buffett which I thought was not bad. Southern Cross is one of my favorite songs! RIP David Crosby.
Origins Southern Cross
Seven League Boots
Jimmy Buffett Live Cover

 

[MURF87]

I've got a few clarifying questions plaguing me, perhaps not for the first time. 4Real/Bleem answered a couple of these a few years ago, but new ones cropped up so I'm running with the whole enchilada.

Steven Stills (studio)/David Crosby (live) sang that he was "sailing a reach before a following sea"--what is a reach?

Does the "following sea" refer to the current that flows south from Alaska through the Pacific, or is it a reference to more local currents?

They had "80 feet of waterline"--is that the length of the boat, or 40 on each side?

How is "Papeete" pronounced?

He tried to call his woman "from a noisy bar in Avalon," which is just off the coast of Catalina Island, about 25 miles west of Laguna Beach, California--is it standard to start a southern journey from Catalina rather than a marina in, say, Dana Point?

His revelation regarding why his wife left him twice came "on a midnight watch"--how long is a standard midnight watch? Does it depend on how many crew there are?

A following sea is local. It is a reference that the seas are pushing your stern, say from the starboard quarter, to directly astern, to port quarter. The larger, more general movements of the water are, as you note, prevailing currents.

Watches aboard ship are 4 hours. Mid-0400, 0400-0800, etc. But yes, it can depend on how many folks on crew. If you have 3 or 6 sections standing watch they would always stand the same hours of watch. In that case, you can “dog” the watch by having a couple of 2 hour watches to replace one 4 hour watch.

80 ft of waterline refers to one side…. although I never really thought of 40 on each! 80 feet of waterline is a good sized blow boat!

 

[G- RUnit]

In the first video Michael Curtis talks about the origins of the song Southern Cross, which was written by Stephen Stills and Rick and Michael Curtis. It was based on the song "Seven League Boots" by the Curtis Brothers. I also put in a link for a live cover by Jimmy Buffett which I thought was not bad. Southern Cross is one of my favorite songs! RIP David Crosby.
Origins Southern Cross
Seven League Boots
Jimmy Buffett Live Cover

Always thought Jimmy Buffett version was better and very good live.

 

[RutgersRaRa]

A following sea is local. It is a reference that the seas are pushing your stern, say from the starboard quarter, to directly astern, to port quarter. The larger, more general movements of the water are, as you note, prevailing currents.

Watches aboard ship are 4 hours. Mid-0400, 0400-0800, etc. But yes, it can depend on how many folks on crew. If you have 3 or 6 sections standing watch they would always stand the same hours of watch. In that case, you can “dog” the watch by having a couple of 2 hour watches to replace one 4 hour watch.

80 ft of waterline refers to one side…. although I never really thought of 40 on each! 80 feet of waterline is a good sized blow boat!

Are the winds at night typically milder than during the day? Sounds like you’ve done this before.

 

[MURF87]

Are the winds at night typically milder than during the day? Sounds like you’ve done this before.

Well, I'm not an expert on weather, and I DID NOT sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, so my thoughts here are on the little I understand from reading and my experiences on the water.

If by "milder" you mean "calmer"/"decrease velocity", then generally, yes at night one would expect less wind because of temperature inversions at night (surface warms during the day and cools at night... heated air during the day is "stirred up" and can be more turbulent. However, of course one has to consider low and high pressure systems in the area. Wherever there are strong pressure gradients, you can expect stronger winds - like when you see weather charts with those "squiggly lines around the H's and L's on the chart"... the closer/tighter those squiggly lines, the stronger the winds.

Many times people don't understand that waves on the water are caused by wind. Prolonged wind from one direction over time (fetch) helps build the waves.. like blowing on the surface of a hot cup of joe ... the longer and stronger you blow, the bigger the waves in your cup.

As for sailing before, I haven't done much pure sailing, but i served 24 years in the U.S. Coast Guard and was a qualified Deck Watch Officer (ship driver) on two Coast Guard cutters. Didn't do any trans-oceanic patrols per se like the CSN song, but made way all along the west coast from Baja California to the Gulf of Alaska and everywhere in between. :-)

Oh, and as for starting in Avalon, perhaps he wasn't starting in Avalon, but had to make a run to get cannoli's and other pastries for the crew... like i did coming off standing the "fid" watch (0400-0800) anchored off Catalina one Easter morning !

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Song isn't even one of CSN's top 20 songs. Yacht rock drek.

Well...that's one opinion.

 

[RU848789]

Well...that's the correct opinion.

FIFY. 😉

 

[AreYouNUTS]

FIFY. 😉

well played!

 

[DJ Spanky]

Well...that's one opinion.

And not a very good one. A lot of people would disagree with that take.

 

[mildone]

“Luff” means the sails flutter, or perhaps go flat?

Luffing the sails means to depower the sails by heading directly into the wind and/or easing the sheets (lines) causing the sails to "relax" (as opposed to being pulled taut).

That the sails might flutter is a common side-effect of depowering. It occurs because, when depowered, the boat's point of sail typically varies every so slightly depending on wind/water conditions, and thus the sails can be very slightly pushed first to one side, than the other side, in rapid succession. Similar principle to what happens when blowing straight across a sheet of paper held edge-first perpendicular to your mouth.

 

[RU848789]

And not a very good one. A lot of people would disagree with that take.

It's ok if they're wrong too...

 

[mildone]

It's ok if they're wrong too...

Ledeya Baklykova disagrees with you're opinion and has this to say about the song:

"Southern Cross is the rare song that unfolds like fine lyric poetry then engages memorably like a deep and rich short story of love and loss, pain and inner strength, as we sail on our journeys thru life. A beauty. Rest well in Peace Mr C!"

Loading…

www.youtube.com

Now, I'm not saying Ledeya's not an AI chat bot and I'm not saying she is. But either way, her photo makes her out to be way, way cuter than you, so I'm going with her opinion over yours.

 

[mildone]

I've got a few clarifying questions plaguing me, perhaps not for the first time. 4Real/Bleem answered a couple of these a few years ago, but new ones cropped up so I'm running with the whole enchilada.

Steven Stills (studio)/David Crosby (live) sang that he was "sailing a reach before a following sea"--what is a reach?

Does the "following sea" refer to the current that flows south from Alaska through the Pacific, or is it a reference to more local currents?

They had "80 feet of waterline"--is that the length of the boat, or 40 on each side?

How is "Papeete" pronounced?

He tried to call his woman "from a noisy bar in Avalon," which is just off the coast of Catalina Island, about 25 miles west of Laguna Beach, California--is it standard to start a southern journey from Catalina rather than a marina in, say, Dana Point?

His revelation regarding why his wife left him twice came "on a midnight watch"--how long is a standard midnight watch? Does it depend on how many crew there are?

I want to know what they mean by the line "I have been around the world". Do they mean that literally? Or is it, perchance, symbolism of some sort?

Incidentally, the length of a watch on any boat can be however long the captain decides it should be (midnight or otherwise). In my personal experience, during sailing yacht races or cruises, and the song clearly refers to sailing, the watches are typically either 3 or 4 hours long. But again, there's no rule that applies everywhere.

 

[RU848789]

Ledeya Baklykova disagrees with you're opinion and has this to say about the song:

"Southern Cross is the rare song that unfolds like fine lyric poetry then engages memorably like a deep and rich short story of love and loss, pain and inner strength, as we sail on our journeys thru life. A beauty. Rest well in Peace Mr C!"

View embedded media

Loading…

www.youtube.com

Now, I'm not saying Ledeya's not an AI chat bot and I'm not saying she is. But either way, her photo makes her out to be way, way cuter than you, so I'm going with her opinion over yours.

Well, since clicking on the link provided brings one to her website with her picture (decently cute, although I'm no slouch), but all it says is, "This channel doesn't have any content," forgive me if I ignore your representation of her opinion...although even if she did say that, she's also allowed to be grossly inaccurate in her assessment.

 

[mildone]

Well, since clicking on the link provided brings one to her website with her picture (decently cute, although I'm no slouch), but all it says is, "This channel doesn't have any content," forgive me if I ignore your representation of her opinion...although even if she did say that, she's also allowed to be grossly inaccurate in her assessment.

Her photo IS her content. And a picture’s worth ten thousand words (inflation and supply-chain issues drove the price up).

 

[RutgersRaRa]

....Oh, and as for starting in Avalon, perhaps he wasn't starting in Avalon, but had to make a run to get cannoli's and other pastries for the crew... like i did coming off standing the "fid" watch (0400-0800) anchored off Catalina one Easter morning !

You got me good with the cannolis--nicely done!! As for the wind-water relationship, I knew that, having had a boat (power) for a few years at the Jersey shore and then Liberty Landing Marina across from lower Manhattan. A lot of excitement in both waters, especially heading up the East River when the tide was coming out. There were plenty of CG cutters in those waters post-9/11/ In fact, I almost ran aground not far from one in the LI Sound, as there's a shoal in the middle of the water not far from the Throggs Neck Bridge, across from Sister Islands.

P{perhaps the best book I've read on sea, surfing, and boating was Susan Casey's "The Wave." From mathematics of wave formation, theoretical and otherwise, to different places of danger where surfers look to catch 100-foot waves (Cortes Bank, off Catalina), expert surfing forecasters who look for just the right confluence of wind and waves in the best spots around the world, and everything in between, this book was eye opening.

 

[AZBlues]

pelagic - relating to, or living or occurring in the open sea

My #1 question has been answered.

Thanks for the definition.. And my #1 question is what percentage of forum posters already knew what the word pelagic meant when they saw it here. I want to know if I'm in the majority or minority, and if I should take a vocabulary refresher course.... 🥺

 

[MURF87]

You got me good with the cannolis--nicely done!! As for the wind-water relationship, I knew that, having had a boat (power) for a few years at the Jersey shore and then Liberty Landing Marina across from lower Manhattan. A lot of excitement in both waters, especially heading up the East River when the tide was coming out. There were plenty of CG cutters in those waters post-9/11/ In fact, I almost ran aground not far from one in the LI Sound, as there's a shoal in the middle of the water not far from the Throggs Neck Bridge, across from Sister Islands.

P{perhaps the best book I've read on sea, surfing, and boating was Susan Casey's "The Wave." From mathematics of wave formation, theoretical and otherwise, to different places of danger where surfers look to catch 100-foot waves (Cortes Bank, off Catalina), expert surfing forecasters who look for just the right confluence of wind and waves in the best spots around the world, and everything in between, this book was eye opening.

Good stuff! I'll have to check out that book!
I'm sure you had some fun times (and pucker factor times) in the Upper and Lower Bays and especially the fun through the Gate. During my time in the USCG I was fortunate enough to have an assignment "back home".. on Governors Island (93-96) Worked as a watch officer at the Vessel Traffic Service, so am pretty versed (albeit outdated) to the movement of marine traffic in the area.... part of our quals was to ride different types of vessels in and around the area... from ferries, to tug and barge combos, to the large container ships. Learned so much from the locals! .. and heard many complaints too!!...lol.... especially from the Hook Pilots re: rec boats in Ambrose Channel... and for the most part, their beef was justified.

 

[RutgersRaRa]

Good stuff! I'll have to check out that book!
I'm sure you had some fun times (and pucker factor times) in the Upper and Lower Bays and especially the fun through the Gate. During my time in the USCG I was fortunate enough to have an assignment "back home".. on Governors Island (93-96) Worked as a watch officer at the Vessel Traffic Service, so am pretty versed (albeit outdated) to the movement of marine traffic in the area.... part of our quals was to ride different types of vessels in and around the area... from ferries, to tug and barge combos, to the large container ships. Learned so much from the locals! .. and heard many complaints too!!...lol.... especially from the Hook Pilots re: rec boats in Ambrose Channel... and for the most part, their beef was justified.

Some of my dock mates had stories of sheering their props on submerged (at high tide) telephone poles in the Bay. Another dock mates sheered both of his props on a submerged cargo container that evidently fell off a cargo ship and floated a foot under the surface. That would have been frightening to be in those waters essentially without power.

In other news, I did have either a Coastie or a NYC boat cop off the Battery pull up quietly behind me (starboard), and as I was making my way to the marina I look aft and see what appears to be a 50mm mounted gun pointed at me. He boards the boat because he said I was within IIRC 500 feet of the Battery, which after 9/11 was a no-no. I was way further than that, but my ex was at the helm with her blond hair blowing in the wind at sundown, so it was a fun stop for the three 25-year old on their Zodiac, one of whom had a shotgun inn case we tried to throw their mate overboard or something, which of course we didn't. No ticket, no problem, keep your distance, have a nice day.

That was the same nighttime trip I almost broadsided a party boat that cut in front of me, almost plowed into a light pole in the East River because the bulb burned out, and almost got cut in half by the cable of a tug towing a barge. They are required to have the same scant lighting scheme on those monsters as the recreational boats are (at least they were). You pretty much can't see a barge at night. I almost ran aground heading back to the marina from Sister Islands across from Laguardia, as I slightly veered off course and ended up in one foot of water. I made it back, but good Lord the waters around Manhattan are different at night than other nighttime waters because the lights of the city reflect off the water and you can't clearly see what is actually in the water. Quite an eventful trip.

 

[hrdcorhays]

Does it have nothing to do with sailing in the southern hemisphere, and seeing the eponymous constellation?

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

I've got a few clarifying questions plaguing me, perhaps not for the first time. 4Real/Bleem answered a couple of these a few years ago, but new ones cropped up so I'm running with the whole enchilada.

Steven Stills (studio)/David Crosby (live) sang that he was "sailing a reach before a following sea"--what is a reach?

Does the "following sea" refer to the current that flows south from Alaska through the Pacific, or is it a reference to more local currents?

They had "80 feet of waterline"--is that the length of the boat, or 40 on each side?

How is "Papeete" pronounced?

He tried to call his woman "from a noisy bar in Avalon," which is just off the coast of Catalina Island, about 25 miles west of Laguna Beach, California--is it standard to start a southern journey from Catalina rather than a marina in, say, Dana Point?

His revelation regarding why his wife left him twice came "on a midnight watch"--how long is a standard midnight watch? Does it depend on how many crew there are?

Lol are you testing the relevance of a post to the Rutgers men's basketball board? This really does push the limits. My next post may be about whether Chinese spy balloons are real, or a federal government red herring.

 

[MadRU]

 

[ScarletNut]

Song isn't even one of CSN's top 20 songs. Yacht rock drek.

Strongly disagree with you!! CSN(&Y) is one of, if not my favorite all time band and the harmonies on that song give me goosebumps every time I hear it.

 

[angmo]

Some of my dock mates had stories of sheering their props on submerged (at high tide) telephone poles in the Bay. Another dock mates sheered both of his props on a submerged cargo container that evidently fell off a cargo ship and floated a foot under the surface. That would have been frightening to be in those waters essentially without power.

In other news, I did have either a Coastie or a NYC boat cop off the Battery pull up quietly behind me (starboard), and as I was making my way to the marina I look aft and see what appears to be a 50mm mounted gun pointed at me. He boards the boat because he said I was within IIRC 500 feet of the Battery, which after 9/11 was a no-no. I was way further than that, but my ex was at the helm with her blond hair blowing in the wind at sundown, so it was a fun stop for the three 25-year old on their Zodiac, one of whom had a shotgun inn case we tried to throw their mate overboard or something, which of course we didn't. No ticket, no problem, keep your distance, have a nice day.

That was the same nighttime trip I almost broadsided a party boat that cut in front of me, almost plowed into a light pole in the East River because the bulb burned out, and almost got cut in half by the cable of a tug towing a barge. They are required to have the same scant lighting scheme on those monsters as the recreational boats are (at least they were). You pretty much can't see a barge at night. I almost ran aground heading back to the marina from Sister Islands across from Laguardia, as I slightly veered off course and ended up in one foot of water. I made it back, but good Lord the waters around Manhattan are different at night than other nighttime waters because the lights of the city reflect off the water and you can't clearly see what is actually in the water. Quite an eventful trip.

I was sailing to Sandy Hook from Jersey City and we drifted on the wrong side of the buoys by Earl NS. Out of nowhere two of those standup patrol boats got on either side of us and started barking orders. We had to start the engine and gtf out of there. Crazy that one minute they were nowhere to be seen and were on us in a few seconds.

 

[Good-Knight]

80 feet of water line means the length at water line -one side. That is not how boats are typically measured. It' s usually stem to stern.
NYC boat police have no right to board you in open water unless you are fleeing from a crime in NYC.

 

[Source]

One time, these 73 men sailed up from the San Francisco Bay. They rolled off of their ship.... said "We're callin' everyone to ride along to another shore..."

Anyone know if they made it?

 

[MURF87]

Some of my dock mates had stories of sheering their props on submerged (at high tide) telephone poles in the Bay. Another dock mates sheered both of his props on a submerged cargo container that evidently fell off a cargo ship and floated a foot under the surface. That would have been frightening to be in those waters essentially without power.

In other news, I did have either a Coastie or a NYC boat cop off the Battery pull up quietly behind me (starboard), and as I was making my way to the marina I look aft and see what appears to be a 50mm mounted gun pointed at me. He boards the boat because he said I was within IIRC 500 feet of the Battery, which after 9/11 was a no-no. I was way further than that, but my ex was at the helm with her blond hair blowing in the wind at sundown, so it was a fun stop for the three 25-year old on their Zodiac, one of whom had a shotgun inn case we tried to throw their mate overboard or something, which of course we didn't. No ticket, no problem, keep your distance, have a nice day.

That was the same nighttime trip I almost broadsided a party boat that cut in front of me, almost plowed into a light pole in the East River because the bulb burned out, and almost got cut in half by the cable of a tug towing a barge. They are required to have the same scant lighting scheme on those monsters as the recreational boats are (at least they were). You pretty much can't see a barge at night. I almost ran aground heading back to the marina from Sister Islands across from Laguardia, as I slightly veered off course and ended up in one foot of water. I made it back, but good Lord the waters around Manhattan are different at night than other nighttime waters because the lights of the city reflect off the water and you can't clearly see what is actually in the water. Quite an eventful trip.

Definitely close calls! And yeah, background lights make things tough on the water at night.

 

[bac2therac]

Move thread to football board please

 

[ScarletNut]

Move thread to football board please

Why? Basketball board can have OT too

 

[RutgersRaRa]

I was sailing to Sandy Hook from Jersey City and we drifted on the wrong side of the buoys by Earl NS. Out of nowhere two of those standup patrol boats got on either side of us and started barking orders. We had to start the engine and gtf out of there. Crazy that one minute they were nowhere to be seen and were on us in a few seconds.

Almost happened to us coming up from the Jersey shore to my new marina in Jersey City. It was so foggy that visibility was probably 150 feet, so we hugged the coast and were gonna spot the Verrazano Bridge and head to the marina from there. The fog never lifted so we never saw the bridge, and we ended up rounding the curve at the end of the Hook and low and behold we are heading for a military ship that was loading/unloading stuff. The fog had lifted enough for us to see it far enough away to where we weren't blasted out of the water. This was all post-9/11 and everyone was on high alert, especially the military in those waters.