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OT: 20th water main break of the year in Hoboken

I'm in the water infrastructure industry. You have no idea how bad it is in all over those north jersey areas...

Biggest problem is you fix one area and a new weak point presents itself in another area.
 
rubaseball78 said:
What exactly are you expecting Hobbs to do?
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PeteGiam07 said:
I'm in the water infrastructure industry. You have no idea how bad it is in all over those north jersey areas...

Biggest problem is you fix one area and a new weak point presents itself in another area.
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I've heard this from some friends of mine - serious question for you - how did this become such a systemic problem?
 
D1ESEL44 said:
I've heard this from some friends of mine - serious question for you - how did this become such a systemic problem?
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Lack of any kind of replacement programs over the years. It is only as of recently (past 20 years or so) main replacement programs were put into place and funding has been allocated by the state or any other programs.

There are a lot of factors involved believe it or not and not just a single answer. I have even seen graphical patterns of mains installed during certain time periods breaking the most due to the types of materials used at the time.
 
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D1ESEL44 said:
I've heard this from some friends of mine - serious question for you - how did this become such a systemic problem?
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No immediate benefits to the politicians. Spend the money elsewhere and let the office holder at the time of the water main break deal with it. Not totally dissimilar to the retirement/retiree health care issue that now rearing it's ugly head.
 
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I've seen mains with manufacture dates from the late 1800's on them look better than ones installed during certain eras.
 
All the development going on and money flowing in that town makes that very sad. I imagine the combined sewer system is very bad too.
 
Plum Street said:
All the development going on and money flowing in that town makes that very sad. I imagine the combined sewer system is very bad too.
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Let's put it this way. There should be no combined sewer anywhere....and yet every city in the area has it.

Doesn't matter how much money the City/Town has. Water system isn't owned by them and the owners can't choose to install main in just one town... they have to spread program money around. Would be quite the outrage if one City was focused while the rest crumbled...
 
With the rain the past couple of days this was bound to happen. The system in town just can't handle any type of heavy rains.
 
AreYouNUTS said:
With the rain the past couple of days this was bound to happen. The system in town just can't handle any type of heavy rains.
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Drinking water and sewer/stormwater pipes are separate... you don't want to drink from the sewer ;)
 
i'm not shocked.. You are talking about the oldest parts of the country with the most recent "modern" infrastructures built. IE. Powergrids, sewers, mains, roads, bridges, tunnels. These need constant upgrades, maintenance and replacement. This is what Tax money should be used for, and it employs people. Instead we fund god knows what, so god know who can live like effing aristocrats. Its a joke. Term limits..... If its the only thing trump does i'll be happy.
 
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Scarlet_Scourge said:
The most important thing is that Trenton is spending $300 MILLION on upgrades to their senate house. The solid gold urinals are going to be amazing.
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So that's where this year and next year's gas tax is going.
 
They should just rebuild these towns elsewhere and empty out these towns and rebuild them later.. with all new infrastructure and designs. Save the best old crap.. bulldoze everything else. Make Mexico pay for it.
 
PeteGiam07 said:
Let's put it this way. There should be no combined sewer anywhere....and yet every city in the area has it.

Doesn't matter how much money the City/Town has. Water system isn't owned by them and the owners can't choose to install main in just one town... they have to spread program money around. Would be quite the outrage if one City was focused while the rest crumbled...
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Makes sense , good point the water system is not owned by the cities .
The combined sewer system is owned by Hoboken right ? Have they made any upgrades to that? I know this is separate issue from water main break. But it seems like a major problem for that city. Reports sometimes seem to pop up after heavy rains that sewage is floating around some Hoboken streets.
 
ruready4somefootball said:
http://newjersey.news12.com/news/hoboken-sees-20th-water-main-break-this-year-1.12693378#commentsWTF is going on? Talk about infrastructure falling apart.So much needs repair in this country, and so many out of work people need to be put into jobs,to pay taxes,to help jump start this economy.
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When the Rs ran the cities they built bridges, rails, subways, and tunnels. The Dems build low income housing for criminals who destroy the neighborhoods and stadiums for billionaires. Let us know when you are ready to cut welfare and we can put the money into infrastructure.


Obama was given $800 BILLION for infrastructure. He spend the money on union bailouts.
 
Scarlet_Scourge said:
The most important thing is that Trenton is spending $300 MILLION on upgrades to their senate house. The solid gold urinals are going to be amazing.
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Keep voting the same asshats in office every year, this what happens.
 
No terms limits and these assclowns keep getting re-elected.

Ingave Brian Stack a piece of my mind
 
Plum Street said:
Makes sense , good point the water system is not owned by the cities .
The combined sewer system is owned by Hoboken right ? Have they made any upgrades to that? I know this is separate issue from water main break. But it seems like a major problem for that city. Reports sometimes seem to pop up after heavy rains that sewage is floating around some Hoboken streets.
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I'm not really familiar with Hoboken's wastewater system most municipalities own their combined sewers but not all. I lived in Newark for 6 years and their practice is most likely the same as every combined system when a big storm hits and the wastewater facilities can't handle the extra thousands to millions of gallons. That practice is to open up the overflow valves, basically bypass valves, and discharge into the rivers. Yes, you read that right. There is no where else for the combined wastewater to go.....
 
PeteGiam07 said:
I'm in the water infrastructure industry. You have no idea how bad it is in all over those north jersey areas...

Biggest problem is you fix one area and a new weak point presents itself in another area.
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Is it the city responsibility or the state responsibility? Everyone wants to blame the state and the federal government.
 
PeteGiam07 said:
I'm not really familiar with Hoboken's wastewater system most municipalities own their combined sewers but not all. I lived in Newark for 6 years and their practice is most likely the same as every combined system when a big storm hits and the wastewater facilities can't handle the extra thousands to millions of gallons. That practice is to open up the overflow valves, basically bypass valves, and discharge into the rivers. Yes, you read that right. There is no where else for the combined wastewater to go.....
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So all the wastewater goes into the rivers ....makes me not want to eat seafood
 
ouchmyknee said:
And yet the mayor gets reelected.
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She got very lucky, unfortunately, thanks to a law that she changed. Last election should have went to a run-off, due to none of the candidates getting more than 50% of the vote, but she got rid of that law, or whatever, shortly after she took office the first time. Had the run-off occurred her opponents had decided to join forces and one of them would have won the vote (I forget which...). She's a horrible mayor and many who were in her corner, a few years ago, now can't stand her (mainly business owners, real estate people, et al...).
 
I lived in Hoboken for a couple years when I was single in my late 20s. Fun, glad I did it, but was thrilled when I finally moved out. Let me say I reverse commuted (which still sucked because there is traffic in any direction around that area), nor was I a guy who went over to NYC all that often, so there go two big benefits of living there.

I can't imagaine if they tried to do a big sewer replacement shutting down multiple roads a time. Just paving the roads a couple at a time a couple years ago was a PITA. And while they seem to be requiring buildings going up to require underground parking, the volume of cars is just going to get worse over the next 5-10 years
 
didn't hoboken pave a road this year or last and the next day PSEG or some other company ripped it up and then on the same road a water main broke so the brand new road had brand new patches. ridic.
 
Plum Street said:
So all the wastewater goes into the rivers ....makes me not want to eat seafood
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On a normal day it is treated in a wastewater treatment facility and then released into Rivers & Bays. Problem with combined sewer areas when there is too much flow from a big storm the treatment facility can't handle the extra flow and goes beyond capacity of the facility. So if you don't want sewage backed up into streets... you have to open the valves.

Here is a map of the City of Newark combined sewer system. Notice it is owned by mostly the Passiac Valley Sewer Commission. Also notice all of the red dots along the river which are the Discharge (or Outfall as they call them) Valves I was mentioning that are opened during big storms so that the Treatment Facility can handle what it is designed for and not back up sewage/wastewater.

figure14.png
 
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rutgersdave said:
Is it the city responsibility or the state responsibility? Everyone wants to blame the state and the federal government.
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Not an easy answer. It is actually the owner's responsibility, (ie. Seuz, New Jersey American Water, Trenton Water etc...) but the state and feds are aware there is way too much infrastructure for the private owners to be able to afford replacing all that infrastructure. They need and depend on replacement programs. They do budget for replacements, maintenance, and main breaks every year, but there is too many pipes and not enough money without drastically charging the customers higher rates.
 
Scarlet_Scourge said:
The most important thing is that Trenton is spending $300 MILLION on upgrades to their senate house. The solid gold urinals are going to be amazing.
Click to expand...
Yup, to all those who voted for the 23cent gas tax, there's where your money is going! Also, the Bergen light rail, oh wait, I thought that increase was only going to bridges and roads!!! Fools that voted for the increase with no proof of a lock box on spending it.
 
PeteGiam07 said:
I'm in the water infrastructure industry. You have no idea how bad it is in all over those north jersey areas...

Biggest problem is you fix one area and a new weak point presents itself in another area.
Click to expand...
My son is a civil engineer and works with remote robots that crawl along old water and sewer pipes looking for cracks. They are able to use polymer balloons, inflated into these pipes that coat them with an additional life span of 50 years rather than tearing up roads. His consulate firm has had great success with this method. My son evaluates some of these projects and does cost estimates on the savings to county's that go this route. Loves his job, and has pretty much a life long supply of repairs in this crumbling state!!!
 
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PeteGiam07 said:
I've seen mains with manufacture dates from the late 1800's on them look better than ones installed during certain eras.
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That doesnt surprise me. My house is from the 1890s. I have had ZERO problems with anything from the 19th century, and early 1900s, but the 1980s addition has been a god damn disaster. I had to rip out the entire floor, fix the plumbing, replace the sub flood, add insulation, and then new tile (obviously).
 
ruready4somefootball said:
My son is a civil engineer and works with remote robots that crawl along old water and sewer pipes looking for cracks. They are able to use polymer balloons, inflated into these pipes that coat them with an additional life span of 50 years rather than tearing up roads. His consulate firm has had great success with this method. My son evaluates some of these projects and does cost estimates on the savings to county's that go this route. Loves his job, and has pretty much a life long supply of repairs in this crumbling state!!!
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Yes, rehabilitation is very big. Cleaning and adding lines (polymer or mostly cement lining) to these pipes is very common option.

The only time it isn't an option is if the pipe is too damaged or if capacity demand has increased or is expected to increase in the future. Then a new larger main has to be installed .
 
I'll keep all of you north Jersey folks in my prayers. I prefer trees, grass and open land to Megopolis.
 
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