A look at the O-line by offers received

[cicero grimes]

doubling down I see

I don't see it like that as plenty of kids who 'when they are probably not good enough to play at the highest level of college football' have made it to the top of the NFL. I mean I can rattle off some names but I'm sure you see my point. It's an unnecessary post that demeans our kids imho

I am going to respectfully disagree with you. I do not think the OP is demeaning our kids, I think he is pointing out the talent disparity we are currently suffering especially as compared to some of our B1G opponents. The talent needs to improve for us to be competitive.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

I am going to respectfully disagree with you. I do not think the OP is demeaning our kids, I think he is pointing out the talent disparity we are currently suffering especially as compared to some of our B1G opponents. The talent needs to improve for us to be competitive.

Then why not list the teams on our schedule like Ill, Iowa, Ind, etc that we have compatible talent with?

I see it differently here but respect we dont' agree on that:)

 

[rubaseball78]

Which means it's his class. If it's not his who's is it for christsakes ? I'm fully aware he didn't recruit a lot of those guys but the fact is he owns it. Btw, didn't Harbaugh cut bait with many of his predecessor's verbals ? And for the record, CA was hired on Dec 7 (Pearl Harbor day, coincidently) a full 2 months before signing day (2-3)

OK, two months instead of a little over 1 month. It is still not his recruiting class. Sounds like the same people who say Flood's first class was actually Schiano's now reverse themselves when it comes to Ash.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Let's take a look at CA's first class (you know, the one where he spent his first three weeks on the job in OH preparing for a meaningless bowl game) of OL and some of the CFB giants that were also interested:

Maietti - Air Force, Maine, and Marist
Howson - Maine, Monmouth and Wagner
Lonsdort - Army Buffalo and Columbia

The only OL from Ash's first class that appeared to have any interest from some big boys was Krimin (Pitt, Miami, NC St)

Doesn't look much different from Flood's classes. Not much light at the end of the tunnel with respect to the OL especially given Ash has shown no ability to date to "coach up" lesser regarded players.

lol, that wasn't his first class.

Get over your butthurt.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Which means it's his class. If it's not his who's is it for christsakes ? I'm fully aware he didn't recruit a lot of those guys but the fact is he owns it. Btw, didn't Harbaugh cut bait with many of his predecessor's verbals ? And for the record, CA was hired on Dec 7 (Pearl Harbor day, coincidently) a full 2 months before signing day (2-3)

This stance is mentally defunct.

Anyone who has 1. a functional brain and 2. no axe to grind knows the first class to judge Chris Ash by is 2017. That goes for all coaches that are hired after the season, at the tail end of recruiting.

I actually believe you have a functioning brain ... but your axe is clearly the sharper of the two.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Bobby Petrino services were available at the time. Unfortunately Rutgers could never be so bold as to hire a fallen man like Petrino. Louisville is now reaping the benefits of Petrinos expertise.

Was he? http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/2014/01/09/louisville-rehires-bobby-petrino/4391123/

 

[AreYouNUTS]

In my most humble of opinions:

1) Flood killed this program (duh)
2) 2016 isn't Ash's class IMHO. Just like 2012 wasn't Flood's class (yes, yes, he "saved it" but nonetheless...)

 

[yesrutgers01]

Wasn't necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, just adding more context..

Clark has a huge offer list, and Beatty comes as a package deal with him. Bowles has a decent offer list with some P5 offers. If Solt commits, he also has a fair-to-decent offer list, with a couple of P5 schools.

Vretman is an interesting case, because he really doesn't have many offers... yet he's rated fairly highly by both Rivals and 247.

I believe Vretman falls into an interesting group that doesnt live in a hotbed for football, doesnt camp all that much and not much exposure. If he were playing in NJ his offers would be much more. He also seems to be a kid that doesnt care to boast about every school that talks to him and call it an offer.

 

[yesrutgers01]

These kids aren't idiots. They know when they are probably not good enough to play at the highest level of college football. If they had only Div 1AA offers in addition to Rutgers they know that if they decide to take the offer from Rutgers that they are taking a big risk and probably reaching too far and possibly likely to get cut at some point.

You are kidding right? Kids in HS with no offers at all think they can play at this level. Kids with any type of offers and talking with P5(even if not offered) are 100% sure that they are good enough to play at this level if given the chance. Also, I'm not sure if it has changed but I know that when GS was here, his offer was for 4 years. Not making the two deep or even worse, would not lose your scholarship. Breaking the law, school rules or team rules were the only way you wouldnt keep your scholarship all 4 years.

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

My ex wife used to remind me of everything I ever did wrong and why every single day. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now whether it is directed at me or at the team.We have beaten this dead animal into a second death. Yes we are all aware of your metrics. It is Ash's job to change a culture..Again.

 

[JQRU91]

I used O-line as an example but I suspected that every unit of the team looks the same way and linebacker more or less does:

1. There are currently 15 linebackers on the team.

2. Only 1 player had a variety of P5, and only P5, offers.

3. Four players had a variety of P5, non-P5 and 1AA offers.

4. Four players only had an offer from Rutgers.

5. Two players had a variety of offers from non-P5 and 1AA schools.

6. One player had a single offer from a non-P5 school and one player had a single offer from a 1AA school.

7. I could not find information for two players.

This is very similar to the O-line: roughly 1/3 had offers of some sort from P5 schools, roughly 1/3 had offers only from Rutgers, and roughly 1/3 offers from non-P5 schools. We have competed a lot with Syracuse and Temple for recruits--when we weren't competing with Monmouth and Stony Brook.

We had a thread that covered this topic just last week:

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/our-2-deep.110103/#post-2405824

 

[czxqa]

Bobby Petrino services were available at the time. Unfortunately Rutgers could never be so bold as to hire a fallen man like Petrino. Louisville is now reaping the benefits of Petrinos expertise.

Bobby Petrino would never have considered this job. He wasn't in the position to take a long term rebuild with his reputation as tenuous as it was. Would never have happened.

 

[czxqa]

Then why not list the teams on our schedule like Ill, Iowa, Ind, etc that we have compatible talent with?

I see it differently here but respect we dont' agree on that:)

If it's your point that they're compatible, the onus is on you to gather that data and present it to bolster your claim. Don't put it on the OP or someone that happens to agree. Do your own research and prove them wrong. And make sure you include how many scholarship players they had in spring training. See if it's more than somewhere in the mid 50's.

 

[Knight Shift]

My ex wife used to remind me of everything I ever did wrong and why every single day. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now whether it is directed at me or at the team.We have beaten this dead animal into a second death. Yes we are all aware of your metrics. It is Ash's job to change a culture..Again.

We had a thread that covered this topic just last week:

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/our-2-deep.110103/#post-2405824

Suspect we will see more and more of this stuff for the next 3 years.

 

[n1tlion]

I used O-line as an example but I suspected that every unit of the team looks the same way and linebacker more or less does:

1. There are currently 15 linebackers on the team.

2. Only 1 player had a variety of P5, and only P5, offers.

3. Four players had a variety of P5, non-P5 and 1AA offers.

4. Four players only had an offer from Rutgers.

5. Two players had a variety of offers from non-P5 and 1AA schools.

6. One player had a single offer from a non-P5 school and one player had a single offer from a 1AA school.

7. I could not find information for two players.

This is very similar to the O-line: roughly 1/3 had offers of some sort from P5 schools, roughly 1/3 had offers only from Rutgers, and roughly 1/3 offers from non-P5 schools. We have competed a lot with Syracuse and Temple for recruits--when we weren't competing with Monmouth and Stony Brook.

The big difference here is Ash can correct the LB problem very easily in one or two cycles...freshman and more so Red Shirt freshman are more likely to start or contributed to the 2-deep...OLineman take a number of years to develop heir bodies and strength to the college game, even the highly rated guys...it will take 2-3 recruiting cycles just to get the quality depth and 2 more years to build these guys up to the necessary size and strength...assuming Ash lands a number of 3 and 4* OLineman this year, it will be 2-3 years before they are starting and so 3-4 years before you have a 2-deep of quality OLineman.

 

[Knight Shift]

The big difference here is Ash can correct the LB problem very easily in one or two cycles...freshman and more so Red Shirt freshman are more likely to start or contributed to the 2-deep...OLineman take a number of years to develop heir bodies and strength to the college game, even the highly rated guys...it will take 2-3 recruiting cycles just to get the quality depth and 2 more years to build these guys up to the necessary size and strength...assuming Ash lands a number of 3 and 4* OLineman this year, it will be 2-3 years before they are starting and so 3-4 years before you have a 2-deep of quality OLineman.

Where do you think PSU is in the cycle? Is your OL solid now, or still a bit porous? Does having a more mobile QB in McSorley help mask the issue?

 

[n1tlion]

Where do you think PSU is in the cycle? Is your OL solid now, or still a bit porous? Does having a more mobile QB in McSorley help mask the issue?

We have two true freshman starting (Menet and McGovern), both very high four stars and one high three star in will Fries (cranford, NJ) who will see some action this week with Nelson done for the year, and one 4* redshirt frosh (Bates)...we had a pretty solid recruiting class last year too in a sterling Jenkins and Steven Gonzalez(also a north jersey kid) both 4* but neither ready to contribute even in their second years in the program...Nelson and Mahon (another north jersey kid) were both high 4* and are finally big contributors this year as redshirt juniors...I'd say we are finally building our depth but probably playing some guys a year too early...so far we've skated by while still coaching these guys up, credit to the New OLine coach we poached from Minny this year.

The OLine is far from solid and with injuries doesn't have great depth but with the experience of the young guys, I think we'll have 10 guys who play this year returning next year, so I'd say it's taken 4 years since Franklins first class that we have a two deep of quality lineman beginning next year. Yes of course changing to the RPO spread and having mobile QBs like mcsorley and Stevens helps a lot with minimizing sacks. But Barkley has had a few really good games because we can finally open up Some running lanes this year.

 

[waretown]

Unfortunately there are still a number of ppl here that are under the mistaken impression that a dearth of talent is not our issue. They blame the coaching staff for not being competitive with the 50 or so players They inherited.

Who in your mind has improved over last year?

 

[Kbee3]

To be fair, they were both class of 2012, which was outside the parameters of the OP.

And both were 4-star recruits. Sure haven't looked the part in their final year.

 

[RUaMoose]

My ex wife used to remind me of everything I ever did wrong and why every single day. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now whether it is directed at me or at the team.We have beaten this dead animal into a second death. Yes we are all aware of your metrics. It is Ash's job to change a culture..Again.

Ash has been on the job for 10 months. The culture should have already been changed.Flood was there four years not 30. Unless this is just another way of saying it's going to take a million years to show tangible results like all of a sudden we have no talent even though most on here predicted 4-7 wins this year..

 

[RU1993]

This stance is mentally defunct.

Anyone who has 1. a functional brain and 2. no axe to grind knows the first class to judge Chris Ash by is 2017. That goes for all coaches that are hired after the season, at the tail end of recruiting.

I actually believe you have a functioning brain ... but your axe is clearly the sharper of the two.

Gonna go out on a limb and say RUMoose is not an Ash fan

 

[RUChoppin]

And both were 4-star recruits. Sure haven't looked the part in their final year.

Haven't heard much negative about Muller, specifically, though Denman has struggled a bit this year (and there was some doubt before the season whether he would start). Nelson's issues with snapping the last game are probably the biggest surprise to me coming out of a 5th year senior.

Tariq Cole hasn't really filled the hole left by Lumpkin, and when Heeman's in for him, we seem to struggle more. Denman is now injured, so we'll see how Applefield and/or Seymour do filling in.

 

[Knight Shift]

Let's take a look at CA's first class (you know, the one where he spent his first three weeks on the job in OH preparing for a meaningless bowl game) of OL and some of the CFB giants that were also interested:

Maietti - Air Force, Maine, and Marist
Howson - Maine, Monmouth and Wagner
Lonsdort - Army Buffalo and Columbia

The only OL from Ash's first class that appeared to have any interest from some big boys was Krimin (Pitt, Miami, NC St)

Doesn't look much different from Flood's classes. Not much light at the end of the tunnel with respect to the OL especially given Ash has shown no ability to date to "coach up" lesser regarded players.

Which means it's his class. If it's not his who's is it for christsakes ? I'm fully aware he didn't recruit a lot of those guys but the fact is he owns it. Btw, didn't Harbaugh cut bait with many of his predecessor's verbals ? And for the record, CA was hired on Dec 7 (Pearl Harbor day, coincidently) a full 2 months before signing day (2-3)

Ash has been on the job for 10 months. The culture should have already been changed.Flood was there four years not 30. Unless this is just another way of saying it's going to take a million years to show tangible results like all of a sudden we have no talent even though most on here predicted 4-7 wins this year..

Dude. . . . . . . .
People accuse me of defending Flood, but really with your posts?
I suggest you read n1tlion's post immediately above to understand the hole we are in. Now, because I am a sunshine pumper like @rutgersal, I don't like to dwell on these things, and I hold out hope that in some games against more formidable competition, we can pull out the win. But you do understand that it all begins in the trenches, don't you? And linebacker is a somewhat important position on defense-and we are razor thin at linebacker.
Please don't take this as an attack. Just wondering what you expect the current coach could do better to get immediate results, or which coach we could have hired that you think would be able to obtain such results.

That said, I am looking forward to this team ripping off four more wins and going bowling!!!![banana]

 

[seels2662]

Yet 60% of this line is not 2013 but 2012 plus the only one from 2013 (Miller) with close to double digit P5 offers.

As I have said in the past....this years talent is not as much an issue as people talk about....but next year we are in for a rough, rough ride.

 

[LotusAggressor]

Let's take a look at CA's first class (you know, the one where he spent his first three weeks on the job in OH preparing for a meaningless bowl game) of OL and some of the CFB giants that were also interested:

Maietti - Air Force, Maine, and Marist
Howson - Maine, Monmouth and Wagner
Lonsdort - Army Buffalo and Columbia

The only OL from Ash's first class that appeared to have any interest from some big boys was Krimin (Pitt, Miami, NC St)

Doesn't look much different from Flood's classes. Not much light at the end of the tunnel with respect to the OL especially given Ash has shown no ability to date to "coach up" lesser regarded players.

We know this after 6 games?

 

[LotusAggressor]

Bobby Petrino services were available at the time. Unfortunately Rutgers could never be so bold as to hire a fallen man like Petrino. Louisville is now reaping the benefits of Petrinos expertise.

And the benefits of a QB who can run and throw.

 

[czxqa]

Who in your mind has improved over last year?

Out of the copious 4* highly recruited kids Flood signed? Pass the joint, dude, I'll have some of that.

 

[RU-05]

Yet 60% of this line is not 2013 but 2012 plus the only one from 2013 (Miller) with close to double digit P5 offers.

As I have said in the past....this years talent is not as much an issue as people talk about....but next year we are in for a rough, rough ride.

I don't know how true that is. The WR position with Mitchell, Melton, the hopeful return of Grant, another year of Harris will be significantly better then this year.

Martin will hopefully return for his senior year, same for Hicks.

We lose Hamiliton and JPO, but Joseph and Wilkins are back, hopefully Turay is healthy by then, guys like Bateky will have another year to bulk up.

We lose zero's LB's.

Hester and Austin in the defensive backfield.

And of coarse the QB position, whether it is Gio, Oden or Lewis will be better then what we have seen through the first 6 games this year.

 

[RU-05]

Out of the copious 4* highly recruited kids Flood signed? Pass the joint, dude, I'll have some of that.

do guys have to be 4 stars to show improvement?

 

[RU-05]

Haven't heard much negative about Muller, specifically, though Denman has struggled a bit this year (and there was some doubt before the season whether he would start). Nelson's issues with snapping the last game are probably the biggest surprise to me coming out of a 5th year senior.

Tariq Cole hasn't really filled the hole left by Lumpkin, and when Heeman's in for him, we seem to struggle more. Denman is now injured, so we'll see how Applefield and/or Seymour do filling in.

Lumpkin was a 5th year senior, did we expect a sophomore 1st time starter to immediately fill that role.

And Muller has been pulled from games. Has not been the anchor on the o-line that one would hope for from a guy with his resume.

 

[RUChoppin]

Lumpkin was a 5th year senior, did we expect a sophomore 1st time starter to immediately fill that role.

And Muller has been pulled from games. Has not been the anchor on the o-line that one would hope for from a guy with his resume.

Didn't realize Muller had been pulled from games, to be honest.

The line has performed at our current level despite having three 5th year seniors... without them, relying only on the guys recruited over the last four years, we'd be in a deeper hole. To the point above, next year might be a rough ride replacing 3 Olinemen. I'd imagine Clark will be a true freshman starter.

 

[RUChoppin]

I don't know how true that is. The WR position with Mitchell, Melton, the hopeful return of Grant, another year of Harris will be significantly better then this year.

Martin will hopefully return for his senior year, same for Hicks.

We lose Hamiliton and JPO, but Joseph and Wilkins are back, hopefully Turay is healthy by then, guys like Bateky will have another year to bulk up.

We lose zero's LB's.

Hester and Austin in the defensive backfield.

And of coarse the QB position, whether it is Gio, Oden or Lewis will be better then what we have seen through the first 6 games this year.

Next year, the offense will be ahead of the defense, imo.

Offensively, I'd expect:
QB: Better overall play. Rescigno, Oden, Lewis, Allen fighting it out, and no more pro style QBs trying to run a spread.
RB: Losing Goodwin, and Sneed is stepping into the mix. Might see slightly fewer receptions out of the RB position, but in good shape.
WR: Better overall play. Losing Patton, Agudosi, and Matthews... but gaining Mitchell and Melton in the lineup, Bailey healthy and back at WR, Harris a year older, and hopefully Grant back. Getting Bell to commit would be big, too. Overall more experience with the new system/routes.
TE: Losing Arch, but still have Flanagan.
OL: Here's where I expect the roughest time... and the offense begins in the trenches. Returning only Miller and Cole from this year's starters. As has been discussed above, there are some questions about the next guys in. Expecting Clark to step into a starting role as a true freshman, which is hard for an OLineman. If the line has a noticeably worse year than they're already having this year, the rest of the above improvement might not mean much.

Defensively, I'd expect:
DL: Noticeable dropoff. Losing Lambert already hurt us for this season, but losing Hamilton and JPO next year is going to hurt more. You don't just replace two 5th year DLinemen, and certainly not one like Hamilton. And again, defense begins in the trenches.
LB: Some improvement, but still struggling. This is our weakest position group this year, but should see a little bump next year with the addition of Manning and Battle off redshirt and Fogg as a freshman. Overall, the front seven is going to face a lot of challenges.
S: Same or slight drop. Losing Cioffi, everyone else is back.
CB: Better overall. Not losing anyone, and they should all be more comfortable with press coverage.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

Was he? http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/2014/01/09/louisville-rehires-bobby-petrino/4391123/

Let me clarify. We were at the point that there was a vocal group on the board who at that point were calling out Flood as being a bad coach. I will admit I was one of the ones who did not heed their advice or calls to fire flood. I think the point I am trying to convey is Petrino was at some DII school or something like that. Everyone knew that petrino was a great coach, and Rutgers could have probably had him had we wanted him. That was my point.